Ballack out: should England WORRY ?

Kimbo wrote:You Germans really are deluded. Of the 4 Germans on this site 3 of you have delusions of grandeur, yet it is the English that get the abuse.

'Deluded'? You mean as deluded as the fans of a team that hasn't won shit for over 40 years, yet feel qualified to pass judgement on another team that has been the most consistent international side for half a century?

Seriously, the cheek.

Kimbo wrote:

Axeslammer wrote:

Kimbo wrote:Of the 4 Germans on this site

There's at least 8 of them...

....and bar Otto and Özil none of them is hyping Germany more than others are hyping their country IMO

Is there? The 4th i was thinking of is Allez, who seems fine if you ignore the fetish for all things scotch.

there's also chrissicross, hedgehog, Antarion, Effenberg, Kroesius and the one who always has German names that I don't understand!

Tweesus wrote:

Six wrote:Group of Death?

Well its tougher than our group - in all seriousness, Ghana and Serbia are both capable of causing a few upsets.

As in Ghana and Germany in the same group : Boateng *eliminating* Ballack => group of death

Tweesus wrote:

Six wrote:Group of Death?

Well its tougher than our group - in all seriousness, Ghana and Serbia are both capable of causing a few upsets.

Only Brazil's group is tougher on paper.

But on paper doesn't say much. You never know which team turns up in the actual tournament.

debaser wrote:
there's also chrissicross, hedgehog, Antarion, Effenberg, Kroesius and the one who always has German names that I don't understand!

Oops, I knew I had left out at least one....turns out I left out quite a lot

blutgraetsche wrote:

Kimbo wrote:You Germans really are deluded. Of the 4 Germans on this site 3 of you have delusions of grandeur, yet it is the English that get the abuse.

'Deluded'? You mean as deluded as the fans of a team that hasn't won shit for over 40 years, yet feel qualified to pass judgement on another team that has been the most consistent international side for half a century?

Seriously, the cheek.

Apart from maybe lerd no one is hyping England, and even if we supported Jamaica it wouldn't make us any less qualified to hold an opinion than someone from, say, Brazil. How good your team is doesn't determine how credible your opinion is. This heilarchy doesn't exist outside the fatherland.

blutgraetsche wrote:

Kimbo wrote:You Germans really are deluded. Of the 4 Germans on this site 3 of you have delusions of grandeur, yet it is the English that get the abuse.

'Deluded'? You mean as deluded as the fans of a team that hasn't won shit for over 40 years, yet feel qualified to pass judgement on another team that has been the most consistent international side for half a century?

Seriously, the cheek.

Er, you don't have to support a successful team in order to be qualified to talk about successful teams.

Or am I, as a Villa fan, not allowed to talk about Man Utd and Liverpool or make fun of them, as they are my 'superiors'

That's not the point. The point is that you've been 'talking down' to Germany yourself, while accusing me to do so and calling me 'deluded'. If I'm deluded, I at least have history to back me up. What do you have?

blutgraetsche wrote:

Tweesus wrote:

Six wrote:Group of Death?

Well its tougher than our group - in all seriousness, Ghana and Serbia are both capable of causing a few upsets.

Only Brazil's group is tougher on paper.

But on paper doesn't say much. You never know which team turns up in the actual tournament.

Neither of these things make it a group of death. Only Brazil's can be called that - the term is massively overused these days.

Six wrote:
Neither of these things make it a group of death. Only Brazil's can be called that - the term is massively overused these days.

Brazil
Ivory Coast
Portugal
North Korea


Germany
Ghana
Serbia
Australia


I fail to see the big difference. Why is Brazil's group a "group of death" while Germany's isn't?

Ghana is very comparable to Ivory Coast, Serbia had a very good qualification campaign, in contrast to Portugal. Quite a talented team, too. And Australia are tougher than North Korea.

I think Group A could be one of the closest groups.

The hosts, two past winners + Mexico.

But wouldn't class any of them as a group of Death to be honest.

blutgraetsche wrote:

Six wrote:
Neither of these things make it a group of death. Only Brazil's can be called that - the term is massively overused these days.

Brazil
Ivory Coast
Portugal
North Korea


Germany
Ghana
Serbia
Australia


I fail to see the big difference. Why is Brazil's group a "group of death" while Germany's isn't?

Ghana is very comparable to Ivory Coast, Serbia had a very good qualification campaign, in contrast to Portugal. Quite a talented team, too. And Australia are tougher than North Korea.

Qualification doesn't mean much really. Portugal and Ivory Coast are far more likely to make the quarter finals then Ghana (no Essien) or Serbia (they qualified well in 2006 too). Players like Drogba and Cristiano are far more likely to make a difference in cup competitions.

Germany should win the group comfortably, with 3 decent teams fighting for 2nd. Can't say the same about the other group. anything could happen.

Be honest which group would you prefer to be in? Germany's any day.

I honestly don't share your optimism, and wouldn't have even if Ballack wasn't injured. That group is far from easy, especially compared to some of the other groups.

I think you underestimate the other teams in our group quite a bit. Just because Portugal (Ronaldo) and Ivory Coast (Drogba) have more known star players, it doesn't mean they have better teams and hence automatically will go further in the tournament.

Six wrote:
Be honest which group would you prefer to be in? Germany's any day.

From a German perspective? I rather play Portugal than Serbia, their style suits us a lot more. I prefer North Korea, too, especially knowing how physical those Australians are, often resulting in injuries for the opposition. Ghana or Ivory Coast doesn't make much of a difference.

Last time the Group of Death was supposed to be Argentina, Netherlands, Ivory Coast, Serbia...but qualification was completely settled after 2 rounds of games and the two bigger names went through comfortably.

It wasn't really 'comfortable' though. Ivory Coast had only themselves to blame for their poor finishing, they gave both Argentina and Holland a good run for their money.

But I agree that Brazil will likely win their group rather comfortably, because this Brazil is a winning machine tuned for grinding out results. I'm less optimistic in Germany's case, not just because of the Ballack injury.

LOL. Germany and their group of death again! Hollands group is a more group of death anyway on paper, since:

Holland>>Germany
Japan>Australia
Denmark=Serbia
Cameroon>=Ghana

Though I can understand germany's group is seen as group of death cause the difference in quality between these teams aint so much.

What a pity that you guys and England can't change places. It has been ages since we met you in the knock-out stages of a major tournament. We could field a U17 side and you'd still be shitting your pants Fey!

Italy's group was really tough as well in 2006. But Ghana were incredibly wasteful in their match against them. Serbia completely choked in the other group of death, lost every game and ended up -8 GD. Serbia are good at beating bad teams, but they couldn't even beat a weak France in qualifying - their record against big teams is poor. I don't think either team are set up as well for a tournament as Ivory Coast and Portugal are.

blutgraetsche wrote:It wasn't really 'comfortable' though. Ivory Coast had only themselves to blame for their poor finishing, they gave both Argentina and Holland a good run for their money.

But I agree that Brazil will likely win their group rather comfortably, because this Brazil is a winning machine tuned for grinding out results. I'm less optimistic in Germany's case, not just because of the Ballack injury.

If you qualify with a game to spare it's comfortable. Ivory Coast played okay, but there was never a point where Argentina/Netherlands looked like they were going out.

Kimbo wrote:

blutgraetsche wrote:

Kimbo wrote:You Germans really are deluded. Of the 4 Germans on this site 3 of you have delusions of grandeur, yet it is the English that get the abuse.

'Deluded'? You mean as deluded as the fans of a team that hasn't won shit for over 40 years, yet feel qualified to pass judgement on another team that has been the most consistent international side for half a century?

Seriously, the cheek.

Apart from maybe lerd no one is hyping England, and even if we supported Jamaica it wouldn't make us any less qualified to hold an opinion than someone from, say, Brazil. How good your team is doesn't determine how credible your opinion is. This heilarchy doesn't exist outside the fatherland.

I havent really gone hard on the hype. But if we're being honest England were one of the most impressive teams in qualifying. Have one of the best coaches and the climate and players are also suitable to win the tournament. Most predictions from footballers or ex players or world known figures tend to be spain, brazil then england.

It's not a crime to rate England above Italy or Germany or Argentina at the minute. And we do have a good shot at winning this one.

Six wrote:Italy's group was really tough as well in 2006. But Ghana were incredibly wasteful in their match against them. Serbia completely choked in the other group of death, lost every game and ended up -8 GD. Serbia are good at beating bad teams, but they couldn't even beat a weak France in qualifying - their record against big teams is poor. I don't think either team are set up as well for a tournament as Ivory Coast and Portugal are.

Serbia are a counterattacking team with a strong defence and very talented, pacy attacking midfielders / forwards. This is a dangerous combination, and especially the kind of team we usually have problems against. And just because they didn't turn up in 2006 it doesn't mean that history will repeat itself.

So I take it that you expect Germany and Ghana to qualify for the next round then, Germany winning the group 'comfortably'?

debaser wrote:
If you qualify with a game to spare it's comfortable. Ivory Coast played okay, but there was never a point where Argentina/Netherlands looked like they were going out.

In the head-to-head matches things looked far from 'comfortable' for both teams. Ivory Coast did disappoint and were too naive, but with better finishing, things really could have looked quite different.

blutgraetsche wrote:That's not the point. The point is that you've been 'talking down' to Germany yourself, while accusing me to do so and calling me 'deluded'. If I'm deluded, I at least have history to back me up. What do you have?

To be fair Blut - Germany have the better record in World Cups, but head to head there has not been a lot to seperate England and Germany over the last 20 years.

1990 - penalties got you past England
1996 - same again
2000 - England beat Germany in the group stages

Between then and now there's of course been the qualifiers (1-0 to Germany at Wembley, 5-1 to England in Munich),

and 2 friendlies (2-1 to Germany at Wembley, and recently 2-1 to England in Berlin)

So for that reason, I respect but really don't fear Germany. Your suggestion you've opened a can of whoop ass on us over the last 40 years, and Otto's suggestion we can only beat Germany thanks to a Soviet linesman - we'll take with a pinch of salt.

So bring it on says I

Hey Bernd, I know you love Germany's obsession with stats, so I'll just ask you this: When was the last time the German national team lost a match at the 'holy ground' of English football, the Wembley stadium? Thanks.

blutgraetsche wrote:Hey Bernd, I know you love Germany's obsession with stats, so I'll just ask you this: When was the last time the German national team lost a match at the 'holy ground' of English football, the Wembley stadium? Thanks.

1966?

I'll raise you this: how many games was it that Germany went without losing at home before England beat them, both in Munich and then in Berlin? Thanks

Heimspiel in Wembley!

We have always been very accomodating to the German team at Wembley.

The fact that you should, in return, extend such hospitality at not one but TWO of your most prestigious cities just goes to show what a good willed nation you really are

First of all, München is in Bavaria, which could be classified as North-East Austria. They even say that Munich is the 'northernmost Italian city'. Second, as embarrassing as it was, there won't be any matches played in that stadium anymore. In contrast to the 'new' Wembley - Germany was the last (senior) international team to win in the old one, and the first in the new one. You have to hold on to tradition.

I give you the friendly in Berlin, but that's Berlin. You know, the city that doesn't even have a football club in the 1. Bundesliga next season. Shit happens, we can't be too greedy, that doesn't suit our humble character.

blutgraetsche wrote:First of all, München is in Bavaria, which could be classified as North-East Austria. They even say that Munich is the 'northernmost Italian city'. Second, as embarrassing as it was, there won't be any matches played in that stadium anymore. In contrast to the 'new' Wembley - Germany was the last (senior) international team to win in the old one, and the first in the new one. You have to hold on to tradition.

I give you the friendly in Berlin, but that's Berlin. You know, the city that doesn't even have a football club in the 1. Bundesliga next season. Shit happens, we can't be too greedy, that doesn't suit our humble character.

The thing is, no matter if the stadium no longer exists and you try to hand Munich over to the Italians, you'll forever be stained with the memory of having conceded the 5th goal to Emile Heskey

Well, Carsten Jancker played in two CL finals. Stranger things have happened.