CL team of the season

stinger wrote:
Sorin was more unique - he's probably the only one full back I ever saw constantly cutting in to the box without the ball, looking for heading opportunities

He was a one off - though Jankulovski at Udinese and Aimo Diana (on the other side of the pitch) used to be a little bit like that.

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Noah and the Bale wrote:

bluenine wrote:

Noah and the Bale wrote:
Having Lucio, Maicon and Zanetti hides Samuel's flaws as a defender.

Noah, are you just WUMing, or do you actually believe this?

Coz if anything, its clearly been the other way round... Samuel has covered and helped our other defenders this season and saved countless goals... Cesar & Maicon have not had their best season, and Lucio does make mistakes... Samuel has been consistently brilliant for us, its no surprise that Inter did the treble the same season when Samuel was injury free. Sure, he has some flaws - he is not the fastest and does indulge in some shirt pulling... but this is not a facking race, and even the most legendary defenders indulged in shirt pulling... Samuel is the star of our defence.

Granted. I'm not WUMming, I really don't rate him and hate his style of defending because it's plain old dirty. As I said before, who cares what I think, he's your player so by all means fawn over him

So basically you have the same opinion as Patrick Barclay, who is widely regarded as a shit pundit.

Strange that once upon a time you wrote this though:

Rio England Braptain wrote:It's a little annoying isn't it, hearing Samuel being called shit or average when he clearly isn't.

Rio has been a standout defender in the EPL for over 10 years too, for Leeds and Man United. Dare I say more successful than Samuel. Yet I hear that Rio is shit and Walter is World Class constantly from one of your lot.

Ok, game over. I've had my fun.

Samuel is a top class defender. I know it. I've always known it. But, in my opinion, he isn't any better than Rio Ferdinand.

Cheerio

You have a strange narcissistic obsession with comparing people's opinions to pundits and journos,as if your own opinion is somehow the encapsulation of originality and liberal thinking

Yeh, Rio Ferdinand is shite. And each time, as you start a new thread or make such post, such a non conformist attitude makes you the football fan equivalent of Martin Luther.

Bobo Vieri - tearing up the textbook of convention and commencing a revolution. What a guy

In response to that old post - I certainly believed he was a top class player back then, but the more I've seen Samuel, the less impressed I've been. Let's see what he'd be like playing for a team who don't put 10 men behind the ball - like Madrid for example - before calling him the best CB in Europe. His Argentina performances have never warranted this amount of fawning, particularly if we're all in agreement that Vidic, Terry and Ferdinand are - as you put it - "shite"

It doesn't quite add up bernd. You thought he was top class back then. A few months later, he's had a great season in which his team has won the treble, but now you're less impressed with him. You're very hard to impress.

We saw him in teams that don't put 10 men behind the ball - Bielsa'a Argentina and the Scudetto winning Roma side.

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:It doesn't quite add up bernd. You thought he was top class back then. A few months later, he's had a great season in which his team has won the treble, but now you're less impressed with him. You're very hard to impress.

We saw him in teams that don't put 10 men behind the ball - Bielsa'a Argentina and the Scudetto winning Roma side.

Hmmm, so I should be impressed because Samuel has been involved in helping Inter win the treble this season?

It's interesting that you should say that since you've spent the best part of your entire EMB career telling everyone how shite Ferdinand is. Therefore, you've failed to be impressed by:

- a player who was instrumental in helping England beat Samuel's Argentina in 2002
- a player roundly credited for helping a poor performing England side to 2 WC quarter finals (a better result than Samuel's Argentina managed in those respective competitions)
- player who captained Leeds to a CL semi final (beating Milan and Lazio on the way), better than anything Samuel's Roma achieved in Europe
- a player involved in United winning 3 titles in a row
- a player who helped United knock out Samuel's Inter in the CL
- a player who appeared in 2 CL finals in a row, winning one
- a player who has won the FA Cup and Carling Cups more times then I care to remember

And yet, in your words, Ferdinand is shite.

So, am I the one who is hard to impress?

Am I the one suggesting Samuel is shite, creating numerous threads on the subject, spending years peddling the same opinion inspite of the evergrowing list of silverware?

Do me a favour Boobles. Samuel is a very decent defender playing in a defensive side like Inter. He's strong but slow, and very very dirty.

He's no better than Vidic, Terry or Cannavaro, for exactly the same reasons as TS mentioned. He's certainly not World Class. And if you think Ferdinand is "shite", then Samuel should be deemed no more than a dirty pub league player.

Interesting that bobo often refers to Terry as "shit". A player who was part of a defence that didn't concede against Barcelona for 183 minutes in a CL semi-final (when they had Iniesta and Eto'o playing and playing for a team which had more than 15% of the possession).

Vidic was part of a defence that conceded 0 goals in 2 games against Barcelona in a CL semi-final. So too was Rio Ferdinand.

utter ownage from twerp. Good work

Noah and the Bale wrote:
- a player who was instrumental in helping England beat Samuel's Argentina in 2002

Samuel's Argentina? If anything it was Veron's Argentina. This game was decided by a dive though, not Samuel or Rio.

- a player roundly credited for helping a poor performing England side to 2 WC quarter finals (a better result than Samuel's Argentina managed in those respective competitions)

Samuel wasn't picked in 2006. In 2002, the problem for Argentina was upfront, and certainly not in defence.

- player who captained Leeds to a CL semi final (beating Milan and Lazio on the way), better than anything Samuel's Roma achieved in Europe

Thanks to Viduka, Smith, Bowyer and Woodgate holding Ferdinand's hand.

- a player involved in United winning 3 titles in a row

Thanks to Vidic and Evra.

- a player who helped United knock out Samuel's Inter in the CL

Samuel was injured, and Rio gave away what should have been a stonewall penalty for bringing down Adriano when he was about to score.

- a player who appeared in 2 CL finals in a row, winning one

Again, thanks to Vidic and Evra. It's no coincidence that when those 2 came, Man Utd started performing in Europe again.

- a player who has won the FA Cup and Carling Cups more times then I care to remember

Is this supposed to be impressive?

And yet, in your words, Ferdinand is shite.

So, am I the one who is hard to impress?

Am I the one suggesting Samuel is shite, creating numerous threads on the subject, spending years peddling the same opinion inspite of the evergrowing list of silverware?

Do me a favour Boobles. Samuel is a very decent defender playing in a defensive side like Inter. He's strong but slow, and very very dirty.

We know he's slow, it's been said dozens of time. The fact that he is not reliant on pace shows his intellegence as a defender.

He's no better than Vidic, Terry or Cannavaro, for exactly the same reasons as TS mentioned. He's certainly not World Class. And if you think Ferdinand is "shite", then Samuel should be deemed no more than a dirty pub league player.[/quote]

S4P wrote:Interesting that bobo often refers to Terry as "shit". A player who was part of a defence that didn't concede against Barcelona for 183 minutes in a CL semi-final (when they had Iniesta and Eto'o playing and playing for a team which had more than 15% of the possession).

Vidic was part of a defence that conceded 0 goals in 2 games against Barcelona in a CL semi-final. So too was Rio Ferdinand.

Both Terry and Rio got merked by Eto'o in those games.

Eto'o didn't score in any of the 4 games you mentioned.

As for the Rio "stonewall penalty" on Adriano, as you pointed out in the other thread, there can be contact without the defender touching the ball. In that case, I guess you can also say that Rio on Ronaldinho wasn't a foul either (in the AC Milan v Man Utd game this season) so the ref got that one right too.

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Noah and the Bale wrote:
- a player who was instrumental in helping England beat Samuel's Argentina in 2002

Samuel's Argentina? If anything it was Veron's Argentina. This game was decided by a dive though, not Samuel or Rio.

- a player roundly credited for helping a poor performing England side to 2 WC quarter finals (a better result than Samuel's Argentina managed in those respective competitions)

Samuel wasn't picked in 2006. In 2002, the problem for Argentina was upfront, and certainly not in defence.

- player who captained Leeds to a CL semi final (beating Milan and Lazio on the way), better than anything Samuel's Roma achieved in Europe

Thanks to Viduka, Smith, Bowyer and Woodgate holding Ferdinand's hand.

- a player involved in United winning 3 titles in a row

Thanks to Vidic and Evra.

- a player who helped United knock out Samuel's Inter in the CL

Samuel was injured, and Rio gave away what should have been a stonewall penalty for bringing down Adriano when he was about to score.

- a player who appeared in 2 CL finals in a row, winning one

Again, thanks to Vidic and Evra. It's no coincidence that when those 2 came, Man Utd started performing in Europe again.

- a player who has won the FA Cup and Carling Cups more times then I care to remember

Is this supposed to be impressive?

And yet, in your words, Ferdinand is shite.

So, am I the one who is hard to impress?

Am I the one suggesting Samuel is shite, creating numerous threads on the subject, spending years peddling the same opinion inspite of the evergrowing list of silverware?

Do me a favour Boobles. Samuel is a very decent defender playing in a defensive side like Inter. He's strong but slow, and very very dirty.

We know he's slow, it's been said dozens of time. The fact that he is not reliant on pace shows his intellegence as a defender.

He's no better than Vidic, Terry or Cannavaro, for exactly the same reasons as TS mentioned. He's certainly not World Class. And if you think Ferdinand is "shite", then Samuel should be deemed no more than a dirty pub league player.

So, in short, Ferdinand's silverware and achievements are in no way related to his own ability, and should be 100% attributed to those players around him (just 2 players in the case of United)

And all of Terry' achievements are also thanks to other players, and being part of a protected backline.

But of course, none of that applies to Samuel, where it's me who is the WUM and hard to impress. Unlike the aforementioned, Samuel's ability IS directly linked to Inter's success (a side where the onus has been on playing with as many players behind the ball as possible, not a luxury given to Ferdinand at any point in his career).

Ignore the fact that Samuel plays in a side managed by Jose Mourinho where the back 4 rarely venture out of their own box, and one which includes Zanetti, Lucio, Maicon, Cambiasso,Sniejder, even Eto'o and Milito who are charged with coming back to help defend, because none of this matters when we're discussing Samuel. Because Ferdinand and Terry are shite.

Makes perfect Bobo sense

Noah and the Bale wrote:

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Noah and the Bale wrote:
- a player who was instrumental in helping England beat Samuel's Argentina in 2002

Samuel's Argentina? If anything it was Veron's Argentina. This game was decided by a dive though, not Samuel or Rio.

- a player roundly credited for helping a poor performing England side to 2 WC quarter finals (a better result than Samuel's Argentina managed in those respective competitions)

Samuel wasn't picked in 2006. In 2002, the problem for Argentina was upfront, and certainly not in defence.

- player who captained Leeds to a CL semi final (beating Milan and Lazio on the way), better than anything Samuel's Roma achieved in Europe

Thanks to Viduka, Smith, Bowyer and Woodgate holding Ferdinand's hand.

- a player involved in United winning 3 titles in a row

Thanks to Vidic and Evra.

- a player who helped United knock out Samuel's Inter in the CL

Samuel was injured, and Rio gave away what should have been a stonewall penalty for bringing down Adriano when he was about to score.

- a player who appeared in 2 CL finals in a row, winning one

Again, thanks to Vidic and Evra. It's no coincidence that when those 2 came, Man Utd started performing in Europe again.

- a player who has won the FA Cup and Carling Cups more times then I care to remember

Is this supposed to be impressive?

And yet, in your words, Ferdinand is shite.

So, am I the one who is hard to impress?

Am I the one suggesting Samuel is shite, creating numerous threads on the subject, spending years peddling the same opinion inspite of the evergrowing list of silverware?

Do me a favour Boobles. Samuel is a very decent defender playing in a defensive side like Inter. He's strong but slow, and very very dirty.

We know he's slow, it's been said dozens of time. The fact that he is not reliant on pace shows his intellegence as a defender.

He's no better than Vidic, Terry or Cannavaro, for exactly the same reasons as TS mentioned. He's certainly not World Class. And if you think Ferdinand is "shite", then Samuel should be deemed no more than a dirty pub league player.

So, in short, Ferdinand's silverware and achievements are in no way related to his own ability, and should be 100% attributed to those players around him (just 2 players in the case of United)

And all of Terry' achievements are also thanks to other players, and being part of a protected backline.

But of course, none of that applies to Samuel, where it's me who is the WUM and hard to impress. Unlike the aforementioned, Samuel's ability IS directly linked to Inter's success (a side where the onus has been on playing with as many players behind the ball as possible, not a luxury given to Ferdinand at any point in his career).

Ignore the fact that Samuel plays in a side managed by Jose Mourinho where the back 4 rarely venture out of their own box, and one which includes Zanetti, Lucio, Maicon, Cambiasso,Sniejder, even Eto'o and Milito who are charged with coming back to help defend, because none of this matters when we're discussing Samuel. Because Ferdinand and Terry are shite.

Makes perfect Bobo sense

Samuel did not start his career at Inter. He has performed in other systems in the past. Some might say his best spell came at Roma where he was part of a back 3 that certainly didn't sit deep.

So this kind of argument works for Samuel, but when it was pointed out that Ferdinand has performed and been successful at Leeds when there was no Vidic and Evra , you still try and attribute that to other players aswell - same argument, different scenario.

If I were you, I'm sure I'd now try and write off Samuel's "success" (I don't remember Roma ever being particularly good in Europe) as being attributable to the much quicker and more versatile Mexes, who had to hold his hand like a little child.

However, I doubt anyone on here actually gives a shit about highlighting Samuel's flaws to the lengths it has occurred.

I'd wager its merely a backlash inlight of the crap you've been spouting for years about other defenders which - when the same patently obvious arguments are applied in Samuel's case - you now suddenly refuse to accept and are trying to argue Samuel as one the best defenders in Europe.

Curiously entertaining turn of events

Noah and the Bale wrote:So this kind of argument works for Samuel, but when it was pointed out that Ferdinand has performed and been successful at Leeds when there was no Vidic and Evra , you still try and attribute that to other players aswell - same argument, different scenario.

If I were you, I'm sure I'd now try and write off Samuel's "success" (I don't remember Roma ever being particularly good in Europe) as being attributable to the much quicker and more versatile Mexes, who had to hold his hand like a little child.

However, I doubt anyone on here actually gives a shit about highlighting Samuel's flaws to the lengths it has occurred.

I'd wager its merely a backlash inlight of the crap you've been spouting for years about other defenders which - when the same patently obvious arguments are applied in Samuel's case - you now suddenly refuse to accept and are trying to argue Samuel as one the best defenders in Europe.

Curiously entertaining turn of events

There was a certain Woodgate holding his hand at Leeds. Man Utd's defence only became good when Evra and Vidic were bought. Before that it was not very good (with Ferdinand).

Mexes and Samuel never played for Roma at the same time.

Noah and the Bale wrote:So this kind of argument works for Samuel, but when it was pointed out that Ferdinand has performed and been successful at Leeds when there was no Vidic and Evra , you still try and attribute that to other players aswell - same argument, different scenario.

If I were you, I'm sure I'd now try and write off Samuel's "success" (I don't remember Roma ever being particularly good in Europe) as being attributable to the much quicker and more versatile Mexes, who had to hold his hand like a little child.

However, I doubt anyone on here actually gives a shit about highlighting Samuel's flaws to the lengths it has occurred.

I'd wager its merely a backlash inlight of the crap you've been spouting for years about other defenders which - when the same patently obvious arguments are applied in Samuel's case - you now suddenly refuse to accept and are trying to argue Samuel as one the best defenders in Europe.

Curiously entertaining turn of events

oh dear

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Noah and the Bale wrote:So this kind of argument works for Samuel, but when it was pointed out that Ferdinand has performed and been successful at Leeds when there was no Vidic and Evra , you still try and attribute that to other players aswell - same argument, different scenario.

If I were you, I'm sure I'd now try and write off Samuel's "success" (I don't remember Roma ever being particularly good in Europe) as being attributable to the much quicker and more versatile Mexes, who had to hold his hand like a little child.

However, I doubt anyone on here actually gives a shit about highlighting Samuel's flaws to the lengths it has occurred.

I'd wager its merely a backlash inlight of the crap you've been spouting for years about other defenders which - when the same patently obvious arguments are applied in Samuel's case - you now suddenly refuse to accept and are trying to argue Samuel as one the best defenders in Europe.

Curiously entertaining turn of events

There was a certain Woodgate holding his hand at Leeds. Man Utd's defence only became good when Evra and Vidic were bought. Before that it was not very good (with Ferdinand).

Mexes and Samuel never played for Roma at the same time.

Using the direct cause/effect argument you're giving above regarding Ferdinand at United:

Ferdinand left West Ham - they got relegated.

Joined Leeds - they got to the CL semi finals for the first time in their history.

This game is easy

You're forgetting other factors and what would have happened if Leeds didn't buy him.

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:You're forgetting other factors and what would have happened if Leeds didn't buy him.

Whereas your cause/effect Vidic and Evra argument is inclusive of all influencing factors ?

You're a card Bobo. I do hope you're joking

Man Utd had Blanc and Brown and Heinze and O'Shea also keeper was often shoddy before them so it was not really a surprise the defence was a bit shitty or not doing well in europe. Fuck all to do with Rio.

Pierre Littbarski wrote:----------------Cesar---------------

---Maicon---Lucio---Pique---Zanetti

------Van Bommel----Xavi---------

-----Robben----Sneijder-----Rooney

----------------Milito-----------------

I agree with this team.

Özil wrote:

Calidad wrote:----------------Cesar
Maicon----Lucio--Samuel----Zanetti
--------------Cambiasso
-----------Xavi-------Sneijder
Messi----------Milito-----------Robben

Olic, Lahm, Piggy, Rooney, Lloris unlucky to miss out

cambiasso looks good because the complete team is working in defence, the only one whos not is militio

Cambiasso looks good because he's Inter's cleverest and most important player, and he's got a very fast football mind.

Cambiasso had a great campaign.

Barrilete wrote:

Özil wrote:

Calidad wrote:----------------Cesar
Maicon----Lucio--Samuel----Zanetti
--------------Cambiasso
-----------Xavi-------Sneijder
Messi----------Milito-----------Robben

Olic, Lahm, Piggy, Rooney, Lloris unlucky to miss out

cambiasso looks good because the complete team is working in defence, the only one whos not is militio

Cambiasso looks good because he's Inter's cleverest and most important player, and he's got a very fast football mind.

Cambiasso has been very under rated on this MB for some time now... He has been veey good for us for all these years, and his consistency has been like Zanetti... most of us expect him to be the next captain after Zanetti retires...

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

stinger wrote:
Sorin was more unique - he's probably the only one full back I ever saw constantly cutting in to the box without the ball, looking for heading opportunities

He was a one off - though Jankulovski at Udinese and Aimo Diana (on the other side of the pitch) used to be a little bit like that.

Sorin was ace, and not just in Champ Manager.


Cambiasso is a consistently underrated player, as are most CMs who don't score or assist a lot.

shazlx wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:----------------Cesar---------------

---Maicon---Lucio---Pique---Zanetti

------Van Bommel----Xavi---------

-----Robben----Sneijder-----Rooney

----------------Milito-----------------

I agree with this team.

Gets my vote too.

Cambiasso's unlucky not to get into it though.

Life wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

stinger wrote:
Sorin was more unique - he's probably the only one full back I ever saw constantly cutting in to the box without the ball, looking for heading opportunities

He was a one off - though Jankulovski at Udinese and Aimo Diana (on the other side of the pitch) used to be a little bit like that.

Sorin was ace, and not just in Champ Manager.


Cambiasso is a consistently underrated player, as are most CMs who don't score or assist a lot.

Problem with Sorin was that he didn't really fit into a standard back 4.

Big 4 Billy Bollocks wrote:

shazlx wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:----------------Cesar---------------

---Maicon---Lucio---Pique---Zanetti

------Van Bommel----Xavi---------

-----Robben----Sneijder-----Rooney

----------------Milito-----------------

I agree with this team.

Gets my vote too.

Cambiasso's unlucky not to get into it though.

And mine. Pierre has excelled

Noah and the Bale wrote:

Big 4 Billy Bollocks wrote:

shazlx wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:----------------Cesar---------------

---Maicon---Lucio---Pique---Zanetti

------Van Bommel----Xavi---------

-----Robben----Sneijder-----Rooney

----------------Milito-----------------

I agree with this team.

Gets my vote too.

Cambiasso's unlucky not to get into it though.

And mine. Pierre has excelled

how so? Didn't Cuchu commit a cynical foul on Messi? and a shirt pull on Ballack? That would therefore rule him out.

Big 4 Billy Bollocks wrote:

shazlx wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:----------------Cesar---------------

---Maicon---Lucio---Pique---Zanetti

------Van Bommel----Xavi---------

-----Robben----Sneijder-----Rooney

----------------Milito-----------------

I agree with this team.

Gets my vote too.

Cambiasso's unlucky not to get into it though.

IMO Lloris, Samuel, Schwienstieger, Cambiasso & Messi are big misses in that line up, but its still a good one....

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Noah and the Bale wrote:

Big 4 Billy Bollocks wrote:

shazlx wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:----------------Cesar---------------

---Maicon---Lucio---Pique---Zanetti

------Van Bommel----Xavi---------

-----Robben----Sneijder-----Rooney

----------------Milito-----------------

I agree with this team.

Gets my vote too.

Cambiasso's unlucky not to get into it though.

And mine. Pierre has excelled

how so? Didn't Cuchu commit a cynical foul on Messi? and a shirt pull on Ballack? That would therefore rule him out.

Actually, Messi deserves to be in there over Rooney.

Lucio is a drama queen, but he's also an incredibly gifted defender, able to bring the ball out of defence, very quick, good distribution.

Of the Inter backline, only Zanetti is a clean player, the other 3 love a bit of the dirty shenanigans. I'll overlook Lucio and Maicon's occasional indiscretions because they haven't made a career from it

Please note - I don't know who Cuchu is so I assume you mean Lucio. Google tells me it's Cambiasso, inwhich case I agreed with Pierre's team who don't have Cambiasso playing, so void