WC2010 Group H - Spain, Switzerland, Honduras, Chile

Euro champs didn't even qualify for 2006 - next!

Huge relief.

blutgraetsche wrote:

Tweesus wrote:One thing also worth noting that this result is TERRIBLE news for Germany.

If Spain get knocked out at the group stage, then their economy is likely to be royally fucked.

You always find a way to add an anti-German spin to things.

Otto and yourself were positioning the Swiss win as a victory for Germany/Hitzfeld/Bundesliga, so it's good Tweed provided some balance

I never said anything like that, you must confuse me with somebody else. I just praised their players who do play in the Bundesliga indeed and hence are not that known abroad.

Besides, it's a pretty desperate attempt to link Spain's demise with Germany.

Spain were unfortunate in this one. Clearly the more adventurous team.

Switzerland epitomised anti-football snatch and grab tactics.

And as we've seen many times, it's a tactic that can work with inferior players, so who can blame them.

Spain will still qualify and go a long way. It's a lesson learnt

blutgraetsche wrote:

Tweesus wrote:One thing also worth noting that this result is TERRIBLE news for Germany.

If Spain get knocked out at the group stage, then their economy is likely to be royally fucked.

You always find a way to add an anti-German spin to things.

Its kind of true though - they're only one step away from rioting in the streets in Spain at the moment though - what with all the corruption scnadels being exposed over there and the 5% public sector pay cuts. the only thing that Spain has in the way of hope at the moment is a world cup trophy and this result hasn't done much to help that hope.

If it all crumbles in Spain, then you can wave goodbye to the Euro

blutgraetsche wrote:I never said anything like that, you must confuse me with somebody else. I just praised their players who do play in the Bundesliga indeed and hence are not that known abroad.

Besides, it's a pretty desperate attempt to link Spain's demise with Germany.

The Leverkusen boys are performing.

Grichting was the MOTM, won everything in the air.

blutgraetsche wrote:Spain not dynamic enough so far to cause this very deep defending Swiss side problems.

There biggest strength is their biggest weakness. They are the best at keeping possession but not direct enough. For Barcelona last year Messi, Eto and Henry provided the directness. This year it was Pedro and Messi.

For Spain the direct players are Torres, Llorente and Navas with Cesc and Villas also able to play the direct game. However, Torres's first touch isn't reliable enough to play their possession game so they should carefully choose the right times to use him.

Big 4 Billy Bollocks wrote:Spain's FB have to get involved (as Ramos did there) and be a more direct Outlet - Iniesta & Silva have great movement & close control but don't have the pace to stretch the swiss defence, it's making it easy for the Swiss to just pack the middle.

That's the other solution. The FBs need to attack providing the directness the midfield lacks.

blutgraetsche wrote:I never said anything like that, you must confuse me with somebody else. I just praised their players who do play in the Bundesliga indeed and hence are not that known abroad.

Besides, it's a pretty desperate attempt to link Spain's demise with Germany.

Well, it was mainly otto on the other thread. But the keenness to point out impressive players as Bundesliga products is telling

blutgraetsche wrote:Euro champs didn't even qualify for 2006 - next!

Sorry

Benaglio was MOTM for me, some excellent saves. Derdyiok should have scored the goal of the tournament.

Jaime wrote:

Six wrote:I was convinced Spain would be different this time.. and they are now they cant even impress in the group stages.

Too many cules.

True. There are two Barcelona players that shouldn't be in the squad namely Valdes, which doesn't make a difference, and Busquets. Busquets does makes a difference as he is starting as is quite shit. Which leads onto...

Big 4 Billy Bollocks wrote:Busquets & Alonso in the same team is pointless to me. Iniesta should be in the middle for one of them, and a natural winger should be on the left... IMO.

Of course both in the same team is pointless but also neither are good enough to do what Senna did. Someone has said that just because Alonso isn't black it doesn't mean he can't play the DM position. Well it’s not Senna's defensive game that Alonso can't replicate. Senna's passing is different to that of Xavi's and it completed it well unlike Alonso. Alonso just doesn’t have the cutting vision to play that role...Busquest passing also compliments Xavi but he's too risky to have in the team. IMO Cesc should play the DM role. His passing also compliments Xavi and he is good enough defensively.

What was Capdevila doing for the Swiss goal? When I played RB at under 14's we were taught to cut in inside on the break and then move out if a wide pass was delivered.

EDIT - Did Senna have a bad season at Villarreal Jaime?

Özil wrote:

Tweesus wrote:

Özil wrote:seriously, the german midfield is equal

schweinsteiger > alonso
kedhira= busquets
xavi=özil

In the positions they play. I would say the Germans are all better...
Scweinsteiger is a better CM than Alonso
I don’t know Kedhira too well but like most he’s probably better than Busquets as Busquets is shit.
From the little I’ve seen of Ozil, he does look better than Xavi as the advanced playmaker. Xavi is a CM playmaker as isn’t as good when starting higher up the pitch.

blutgraetsche wrote:As I said a while ago, if you want to compare Özil's playing style to the Spanish players, Iniesta is more similar to him than Xavi. Still different and far from being that refined yet, of course.

Iniesta is a great link player and possession keeper with great dribbling skills but as a true playmaker you can see Ozil has better vision and imagination IMO.

Alonso is very clever in his positioning on and off the ball. His passing was good as well today, Xaviesque in the percentage that were completeted, and very few players in the world can play direct balls to the wings better than he can.

That said, Fabregas, and Xavi are better at playing "vertical" passes up the pitch and thus allowing for a quck change of tempo and taking several players out of the game, sometihng that Xabi's passing doesnt achieve.

Fabregas has the added advantge of following his passes and finding pockets of space between the midfield and defence (althiugh this didnt really exist in the Switzerland match).

I like the idea of Iniesta playing in the place of Xavi today, but i'd keep him out wide for the time playing and play a midfield triangle of Xabi/Busquets, Cesc, and Xavi.

Best game I've seen so far by a wide margin. It's a shame to hear 'anti-football' pessimism on here. Given a bit of luck at the right time Spain could easily have won this match even with their slightly odd selection. Great defending though, and you can see how important Hitzfeld is from the substitution of Senderos - they adapted at once to the change.

As a general comment, it's worth noting that Hitzfeld stuck with a 4-4-2 throughout. It limited the ability of the centrebacks to push past Busquets. I'd be tempted to say that might be a weakness of this style of attacking football, with half an eye on those occasions when I've seen Barcelona troubled. With the emphasis on sustained possession and patient interplay on the edge of the attacking third the positioning of the opposition's attacking players and the threat of a counter can stymie the intended fluidity of the team in possession. One less defender to get past, but a touch less confidence in committing bodies ad hoc?

blutgraetsche wrote:Euro champs didn't even qualify for 2006 - next!

...or '94











This is what can happen when you leave the best GK in the world on the bench

Did Kodak do bad?

Cant believe Spain lost, all this with Iniesta on the pitch.

borocooper wrote:Did Kodak do bad?

Yes he did. A swiss player was running at him with the ball in the penalty area and he came sliding in with his feet for some reason.

shazlx wrote:

Özil wrote:

Tweesus wrote:

Özil wrote:seriously, the german midfield is equal

schweinsteiger > alonso
kedhira= busquets
xavi=özil

In the positions they play. I would say the Germans are all better...
Scweinsteiger is a better CM than Alonso
I don’t know Kedhira too well but like most he’s probably better than Busquets as Busquets is shit.
From the little I’ve seen of Ozil, he does look better than Xavi as the advanced playmaker. Xavi is a CM playmaker as isn’t as good when starting higher up the pitch.

blutgraetsche wrote:As I said a while ago, if you want to compare Özil's playing style to the Spanish players, Iniesta is more similar to him than Xavi. Still different and far from being that refined yet, of course.

Iniesta is a great link player and possession keeper with great dribbling skills but as a true playmaker you can see Ozil has better vision and imagination IMO.

The Spanish midfield has been doing the business now for over 2 years.

This is their second loss in something like 46 matches, including friendlies.

Whilst the German midfield looked great against Australia, it seems horribly early to be suggesting it's better.

It wasn't so long ago Ballack was seen as the lynchpin to this German team.

Let's see how it fares against a few stronger midfields than the Australian and Maltese - ones with more experience and able to put pressure on them better,

before making any claims that it's better than Spain's

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

borocooper wrote:Did Kodak do bad?

Yes he did. A swiss player was running at him with the ball in the penalty area and he came sliding in with his feet for some reason.

..and he had a very deep starting position - almost Given-esque.

Well..I warned you, and I did always say he was the Spanish Given