integration: should players sing national anthems

very interesting article about ethnic-Turks trying to make it in professional football in Germany

http://www.faz.net/s/RubFB1F9CD53135470AA600A7D04B278528/Doc~E124617D7B21147ABBEF85C2BDA977682~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html

Ä wrote:

well, only GERMANS play for GERMANY

We've told you time and time again that that simply isn't the case...

....but somehow the penny is just not dropping...


Germans playing for Germany !

That's sooooo 1960

the dimwittedness of "our Turks" is increasingly beginning to piss me off



I watched a talk-show on Phonix the other day

one of the guests was a very wealthy turko-German entrepreneur caller Öger

I believe , he is the guy of Öger Tours

the chap arrived in Germany as a teenager but made a success of his life here BIG TIME

apparently, the Social Demcrats then recruited him and he even got elected as a GERMAN MEP to the EUropean Parliament in Strasbourg

prepresenting German voters

and NOW

this clown tells a GERMAN audience in a GERMAN talk-show that he would ALWAYS support Turkey over Germany in a football match

+

excellent interview in the current kicker with Cacau and this lady footballer Bajramay (sp)

about integration

I have changed my opinon about Cacau ENTIRELY

the boy now has to be an AUTOMATIC STARTER in EVERY Germany game

for the interview he gives ALONE

it's along the lines of "I feel proud to be allowed to sing the German national anthem"



what a LEGEND

the lady is good news as well

she's chuffed to bits about singing Einigkeit und Recht und F.

Ä wrote:major league set-back for BERND

Laurent Blanc just said that he did NOT believe in double-(triple) nationalities AT ALL

the idea of somebody playing for the French U-teams and then ending up with (let's say) a senior African team is NOT acceptable to him

you either feel French or you do not

irrespective of age

nationality is part of your identity

it's NOT something you chose like a bar of chocolate



this is a HUGE set-back to bernd's , frankly, ridiculous double-passport idea



--------------

meanwhile, Alice Schwarzer, the cuntish German feminist , tells Stöbele, the idiotic Green lunatic to tell

ÖZIL

to sing the GERMAN ANTHEM

as part of our efforts to INTEGRATE people



what is the world coming to ?!

in view of how the integration debate in Germany is picking up momentum, it's fair to say that the NEXT big Cup NOT MANAGED by left-wing, politically correct Löw

WILL INDEED SING the ANTHEM

as a TEAM

ie

EVERYBODY



Sarazin's book really has triggered a revolution in terms of how integration is discussed in Germany now



FANTASTIC STUFF

You're a nice boy Ottobahn, but Jesus Jones you live in delusion.

When you're admitted Carsten Jancker was one of your favourite players, and that the 2000 team was better than the current lot,

one might argue that you're also just a teeny bit racist. Too many dark faces eh?

A footballer should indeed FEEL German or English or Grenadian if they choose to play for their nation.

You won't find me disagreeing with that.

But that doesn't mean you cannot FEEL you are more than simply one nationality. This is frankly ludicrous and prehistoric to suggest otherwise.

Being born into a family or situation where you share ties to 2 different countries or cultures does NOT mean you should be forced to adopt one over the other,

particularly at an early age when identity is still being moulded.

So, a footballer should have the right to change his mind about who to play for, even if he plays for German U21's for example.

Just like all people who find themselves in a situation where they qualify for 2 or more nationalities should be allowed to hold duel nationality instead of being told they MUST adopt one over the others.

Just because Laurent Blanc thinks otherwise doesn't make diddly squat difference to me - I'd rather live in a country where I am

accepted as a Anglo Hungarian with 2 passports, than one where I MUST be German and give up the other.

How that is supposed to facilitate multicultural integration is anyone's guess

let me put it like this, bernd

Laurent Blanc : WORLD CHAMPION

Bernd: NOT even champion of Leeds or Buda or Pest

WHAt does THAT tell you ?!



+

I NEVER said that the 2000team was better than the 2010 one

NOR did I say anthing against DARK skin tones

in fact

a few posts up, I just DEMANDED that Cacau now HAD TO PLAY EVERY GAME for Germany



just bear in mind, I NEVER want to see Badstuber in the Mannschaft AGAIN (and he looks pretty Teutonic to me)

whereas Gomez , Cacau and J. Jones are /would have been welcome anytime



as for feeling various national identities at the same time

sure, why not

these things are not black and white

BUT it's also a PERCEPTION game

in other words

do the people I (the international footballer) represent,

FEEL

that I am one of them

that I represent them PROPERLY

whether Poldi or Özil want to sing the anthem or not may feel like private business to them

to the GERMAN FANS whom they represent , it's NOT

if they feel they cannot prepresent us properly, so be it

your idea that it should be possible to play for the Hungarian U-21 and then switch to the Senior English side, for instance, should conform to the same rules

it may work for YOU, the player

the question is, whether it works for the English fans

two entirely different things, my find Hungarian friend

or rather

if you have slept with 1000 women before hooking up with your current ladyfriend it may not be a problem for YOU

in fact, you may even think that your adventures helped you sort out your real preferences

and make you a more LOYAL chap now

BUT

your current lady-friend MIGHT hold an altogether different view



I guess what I am saying is this

the DEAL only works , if it works for both parties

apply this to Özil REFUSING to sing the anthem, or fans getting confused by players playing for two different countries

and you have to work out WHO HAS TO BUDGE to make it work

personally, I think

the collective beats the individual with his respective sentiments

wahre G

think about it

Ä wrote:let me put it like this, bernd

Laurent Blanc : WORLD CHAMPION

Bernd: NOT even champion of Leeds or Buda or Pest

WHAt does THAT tell you ?!

Cannot argue with that old pear

Ä wrote:

BUT it's also a PERCEPTION game

in other words

do the people I (the international footballer) represent,

FEEL

that I am one of them

that I represent them PROPERLY

whether Poldi or Özil want to sing the anthem or not may feel like private business to them

to the GERMAN FANS whom they represent , it's NOT

if they feel they cannot prepresent us properly, so be it

your idea that it should be possible to play for the Hungarian U-21 and then switch to the Senior English side, for instance, should conform to the same rules

it may work for YOU, the player

the question is, whether it works for the English fans

two entirely different things, my find Hungarian friend

or rather

if you have slept with 1000 women before hooking up with your current ladyfriend it may not be a problem for YOU

in fact, you may even think that your adventures helped you sort out your real preferences

and make you a more LOYAL chap now

BUT

your current lady-friend MIGHT hold an altogether different view



I guess what I am saying is this

the DEAL only works , if it works for both parties

apply this to Özil REFUSING to sing the anthem, or fans getting confused by players playing for two different countries

and you have to work out WHO HAS TO BUDGE to make it work

personally, I think

the collective beats the individual with his respective sentiments

wahre G

think about it

You make a good argument Ottoast and jam

firstly, I'm not actually calling you a racist, I was merely pointing to the fact that your comment could be (wrongly) miscontrued as thus.

Secondly, yes it is about perception,

but you are also making the general assumption that things like singing the National Anthem or making public declarations of your love for your country are what represents the requirements of football fans.

I'd argue that, in fact, most fans couldn't give a hoot about whether said player sings or cries at the sound of the anthem, or continually remind everyone how English/German/Grenadian they feel -

it's how they represent themselves on the pitch that matters. Do they give their all, do they play like they care, are they playing to win but fairly - those are far more important and representative of most level headed football fans than if they are can warble to some shit tune before the game and kiss the badge infront of the media.

Noah and the Bale wrote:

Ä wrote:

BUT it's also a PERCEPTION game

in other words

do the people I (the international footballer) represent,

FEEL

that I am one of them

that I represent them PROPERLY

whether Poldi or Özil want to sing the anthem or not may feel like private business to them

to the GERMAN FANS whom they represent , it's NOT

if they feel they cannot prepresent us properly, so be it

your idea that it should be possible to play for the Hungarian U-21 and then switch to the Senior English side, for instance, should conform to the same rules

it may work for YOU, the player

the question is, whether it works for the English fans

two entirely different things, my find Hungarian friend

or rather

if you have slept with 1000 women before hooking up with your current ladyfriend it may not be a problem for YOU

in fact, you may even think that your adventures helped you sort out your real preferences

and make you a more LOYAL chap now

BUT

your current lady-friend MIGHT hold an altogether different view



I guess what I am saying is this

the DEAL only works , if it works for both parties

apply this to Özil REFUSING to sing the anthem, or fans getting confused by players playing for two different countries

and you have to work out WHO HAS TO BUDGE to make it work

personally, I think

the collective beats the individual with his respective sentiments

wahre G

think about it

You make a good argument Ottoast and jam

firstly, I'm not actually calling you a racist, I was merely pointing to the fact that your comment could be (wrongly) miscontrued as thus.

Secondly, yes it is about perception,

but you are also making the general assumption that things like singing the National Anthem or making public declarations of your love for your country are what represents the requirements of football fans.

I'd argue that, in fact, most fans couldn't give a hoot about whether said player sings or cries at the sound of the anthem, or continually remind everyone how English/German/Grenadian they feel -

it's how they represent themselves on the pitch that matters. Do they give their all, do they play like they care, are they playing to win but fairly - those are far more important and representative of most level headed football fans than if they are can warble to some shit tune before the game and kiss the badge infront of the media.

I wonder, bernd

a) Germany does NOT have a SHIT tune

we have a WORLD CLASS TUNE



b) this will vary from country to country anyway

flashback to WORLD CUP and you got the feeling that SOME countries are VERY PASSIONATE about their anthem (both players and fans): in particular the S.Americans, Italy...

---------

my argument with regards to Germany would be that in the absence of widely accepted national symbols, the ANTHEM becomes even more important

and when EVERY "German" sings , the "non-ethnic German"s REFUSAL to sing STANDS out like Bale in the San Siro

it's almost as if the "immigrant-background" players WANT to make the point that they do NO fit in

and in view of the current debate about immigration in Germany, one wonders whether POSITIVE signals of successful immigration would not be "helpful"



-------

it seems the Dutch are a lot more interested in their language than the Teutons in theirs

http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article10463938/Schaemen-sich-die-Deutschen-fuer-ihre-Sprache.html

(in German)

the DANES now plan to "revive" certain "immigrant ghettos" my enouraging or forcing well-educated/middle class Danish aborigines to MOVE there



http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article10551446/Daenemark-will-Normalverdiener-in-Ghettos-ansiedeln.html

(in German)

meanwhile, it seems Berlin, that multikulti shithole, is on the up

there are now predictions of a veritable ECONOMIC BOOM in the capital

which means

BUY REAL ESTATE NOW

it's still cheap but this will NOT LAST

think of NY or London in the early 80s

Ä wrote:the DANES now plan to "revive" certain "immigrant ghettos" my enouraging or forcing well-educated/middle class Danish aborigines to MOVE there



http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article10551446/Daenemark-will-Normalverdiener-in-Ghettos-ansiedeln.html

(in German)

meanwhile, it seems Berlin, that multikulti shithole, is on the up

there are now predictions of a veritable ECONOMIC BOOM in the capital

which means

BUY REAL ESTATE NOW

it's still cheap but this will NOT LAST

think of NY or London in the early 80s

It is a terrible plan they have created. Other parts were that they wanted universities to move there as well to bring the "student environment" closer to the ghetto. They also want to blow up some of the apartments here in places like where I live as if it will solve a deeper problem with integration. It is incredibly superficial and I can't believe plans like these aren't immediately laughed off but instead they are accepted and praised. Denmark is already sliding down the scale among the OECD and their forecast says we will follow a similar trail which has been away from being one of the wealthiest countries to outside the top 10 and 10-20 years time around top 30.

Denmark and Europe

yeah, indeed,

the feminized, politically correct Scandianvian countries are becoming inceasingly irrelevant

then again

HOW would YOU solve the ghetto situation

the "successful" immigrants leave, because they do not want their kids to be exposed to the all that despair, making it virtually impossible for certain areas to "pick up"

you cannot just tear everything down and relocate everybody all over the place at the cost of the taxpayer

---------------

the MUNICH born Ekici (a FC Bayern product now on loan to Nürnberg), who has already played for all German U-teams, has now decided to play for Turkey

I am 90% sure that Gündogan will follow him soon

simply because the creative midfield positions are subject to RIDICULOUS competition now: Kroos, Özil, Götze, Holtby, Müller, Gebhard...

there are also now rumours (even if denied) that the next German-Turk is on his way to the Turkish national team

" Da waren die türkischen Medien wohl etwas voreilig: Diese hatten am Freitag geschrieben, dass sich Freiburgs Ömer Toprak bereits für die türkische Nationalmannschaft entschieden hätte. Dieses dementierte Dirk Pietroschinsky der Berater des Jung-Nationalspieler, dessen Schützling seit der U 17 für den DFB aufläuft im "Kicker". "Bislang ist noch überhaupt keine definitive Entscheidung darüber gefallen. Ömer wird sich zu gegebenem Zeitpunkt dazu äußern."

Toprak is THE player once praised by Kohler, aka Fusballgott, as being THE FUTURE

my hunch is also that Essen-born Özbek, currently a starter at Galatasaray, will end up playing for Turkey

he really would like to play for Germany, but Löw told him he would have to play in a bigger league

the boy is now pissed off, pointing out that he plays for a superbig-club like Gala, the Bayern of Turkey, he says

when you think about it, NONE of these ethnic Turkish Germans would have sung the NATIONAL ANTHEM anyway though

we do not need them either, considering the conveyor belt

ie

sooner than later, the Turkish national team will be Germany-B



Hamil Alintop + Halil Alimtop + Sahin + Ekici + Güdogan + Özbek + Toprak ...

now

SACK Hiddink and GET Daum and they could easily win Euro 2012

Ä wrote:the DANES now plan to "revive" certain "immigrant ghettos" my enouraging or forcing well-educated/middle class Danish aborigines to MOVE there



http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article10551446/Daenemark-will-Normalverdiener-in-Ghettos-ansiedeln.html

(in German)

meanwhile, it seems Berlin, that multikulti shithole, is on the up

there are now predictions of a veritable ECONOMIC BOOM in the capital

which means

BUY REAL ESTATE NOW

it's still cheap but this will NOT LAST

think of NY or London in the early 80s

Berlin...economic boom..

Did some tourist dropped some change or anything?

Germany need a new capital! I would go for either MUNICH or FRANKFURT or ENSCHEDE!

TAI

Fey: you're a dick

the Turkish scout , trying to headhunt German U-players, is beginning to get annoying, it seems

Sammer is NOT amused

neither is FREUND, who is in charge of the U-17 lads, I think

the Turkish head of scouting is a chap called Keser (sp), an ex-Dortmund man

he seems to be busy calling our young U-17/19/... players ALL the time

often even during youth tournaments when the lads play for Germany



eventually, when the boys get the feeling the senior Mannschaft is out of reach, they succumb

eg: Ekici

Toprak now says he has not made his mind up either, despite being a GERMAN U-19 European champ



the current U-17 Germany team has 8 players with a "partly"/completely non-ethnic German background

one "Greek", the others are "Turks"

even the CAPTAIN is Turkish: the Bayern youth player is now a particular target for Keser

and the scout does not stop despite being told by the player that he is with Germany FOR NOW

chances are though, that he will end up with Turkey as well

the boy admits, he has not made up his mind YET

NONE of these Turks have any REAL loyalty to the Mannschaft

Alintop is probably right when he suggested most of them went for Germany for CAREER REASONS

pointing out that Özil would not even have played at the last World Cup as a TURK, nor would he have ended up with Real

none of this would have happened , if FIFA had not changed their rules

here's the link

http://www.spox.com/de/sport/fussball/dfb-team/1011/Artikel/tuerkei-macht-jagd-auf-talente-guus-hiddink-erdal-keser-werben-um-ekici-toprak-guendogan-yalcin-emre-can-toere-cigerci.html

little sidenote to our Dutchies

"Arsenals Oguzhan Özyakup haben die Türken im Auge. Bisher spielte der 18-Jährige für die Niederlande..."

the MASTERMINDS behind the plan to WEAKEN the Mannschaft are

Keser, on the left, and DUTCH MONSTER , Hiddink

Sad development....

Hiddink with Turkkey and Pim Verbeek with Morocco are trying to make vulnerable Turkish- and Moroccan-Dutchies crazy to choose to leave their country of birth...

as always, mildly provocative/amusing stuff by allez's hero, Broder

http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/0,1518,727561,00.html

his TV programme tonight should be well worth watching

-----------

also nice to see ALL 9 World Champion Rowers SINGING the ANTHEM

interview with the two protagonists

http://www.welt.de/fernsehen/article10768343/Deutsche-haben-Talent-sich-selbst-niederzumachen.html

(in G)

bad news

apparently, Gündogan has decided to play for the Osman Empire after all



--------------

WEIRD and WORRYING NEWS

our Minister of WAR, Baron von Guttenberg

has decided that the Reichswehr should be open to FOREIGNERS

I don't even know what that means

should the Wehrmacht now recruit aliens just like the Foreign Legion ?!

will the Reichswehr be "unterwandert" with DUTCHIES ???

http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article12530529/Guttenberg-holt-Auslaender-in-die-Bundeswehr.html

I wonder what fey and antari make of THIS

Otto, the German army has always been open for foreigners!!

Fey wrote:Otto, the German army has always been open for foreigners!!

Typical how the Germans know themselves :

most German men are only good enough for the Wehrmacht (the pussy brigade), the elite go into the Waffen SS.

All Dutchies immediately qualify for the Waffen SS...


...this is kind of a strange thing to turn into something positive though

Milan star MERKEL now says

" Russia or Deutschland ?! Whoever gives me a call FIRST is in POLE"

http://www.spox.com/de/sport/fussball/dfb-team/1102/Artikel/alexander-merkel-milan-keine-nationalmannschafts-entscheidung-gefallen-deutschland-russland.html



TRAITOR

@fey

what would we have done with people like that in the past ????!!!

it turns out we now have more RUSSIAN speaking people in Berlin than Turkophones



interesting article about Russians in Germany and their integration

http://www.cicero.de/97.php?item=5943

this really means that a Russia-born German SHOULD feature in EVERY Mannschaft we field these days, me thinks

ie

either we kick out Lahm and replace him with Andreas Beck

OR

we HURRY up and tie MERKEL to the Mannschaft

-------------------

meanwhile,

it turns out that Gündogan HAD to close down his Facebook account because Turkish c**ts living in the Vaterland insulted him for betraying TURKEY



Gündogan does not understand this

saying, people IN Turkey have encouraged him to play for Deutschland (considering he was BORN here), whereas it's Germany-based Turks that cannot understand why he wants to play for the Vaterland

Gündogan is HUGELY disappointed with his ethnic countrymen and says that they are clearly the product of FAILED integration

Ekici, who opted to play for Turkey, AGREES

reminds me of Özil playing for Germany in Berlin where MANY of the Turks living HERE just WHISTLED him mercilessly



the bad news is we are stuck with a bunch of WITLESS Turks

the good news is the Russians more than make up for them

------------------------

did anybody watch our B-team play against Australia ?

ALL of our lads sang the anthem

with the exception of Poldi

AND

WIESE

what the FUCK was going on THERE ?

meanwhile,

MAD JENS is SUING Wiese

the Bremen keeper once compared Jens to a member of the MUPPET SHOW

and Jens is now going to COURT



WHAT A LEGEND

Sven Ullreich also now says that Jens is UTTERLY MAD but VERY helpful

and Schober

comparing Neuer with Jens

says

"Neuer is excellent with his Spieleröffnung , also on the line; Jens was SUPERB with his STRAFRAUMBEHERRSCHUNG; BOTH were excellent THROWERS"

true enough

also good point , by implication, about Neuer's relative lack of masterity in the penalty box; whenever he leaves the line, you get a heart-attack

still

once he irons out that little weakness , he could become truly GOOD

wahre G

Steffi Jones

"

SPORT1: Von Ihnen als OK-Chefin wird heute sowieso erwartet, dass Sie die Hymne mitsingen, oder?

Jones:

Klar, und selbst wenn ich zu Hause mit Freunden ein Länderspiel im Fernsehen anschaue, müssen die aufstehen und die Nationalhymne singen.!"

http://www.sport1.de/de/fussball/fussball_frauen/fus_frauen_wm2011/artikel_387589.html

interesting stuff on the French-Blanc-situation

Assou-Ekotto and Bassong speak out

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/may/11/assou-ekotto-bassong-france-race-quotas?INTCMP=SRCH

and to the Frenchies on here: is it TRUE that fans of Les Bleus WHSITLE their ANTHEM ??

why would they do that ?

nobody want to comment on the French anthem situation ??

anyway, how UTTERLY depressing is THIS section from the above article (Guardian)

When the French-born Cameroon internationals Benoît Assou-Ekotto and Sébastien Bassong ask colleagues such as Jermain Defoe or Aaron Lennon where they come from, the answers touch a nerve that is red raw in France at present.

"They say, of course, that they are English or British," Assou-Ekotto says. "At first, I thought that they must be ashamed of their origins because coming from where I did in France, even if you had only one little drop of Moroccan blood, for example, you would represent it to the death. You would be fiercely proud of being African.



Assou-Ekotto was BORN in FRANCE

to a FRENCH mother and Cameroonian father

yet he is FIERCELY proud to be African



what a clown

he is basically the "French" equivalent to Gomez or Khedira

I wonder whether French society really makes the likes of him feel THAT unwelcome or whether his African roots/culture have/has something to do with it



--------

there is a good interview with Güdogan and Ekici in the current 11 Freunde

about integration, German-Turks...

well worth reading

Gündogan is pretty critical of his fellow "Deutsch-Türken" and their refusal to integrate, to even make an effort

smart lad

Those two are fucking tools, particularly the odious Assou-Ekotto. He urgently needs to speak for himself. It's as if the victory with that genuinely multiracial team in '98 never happened

As one of the commenters below the above interview said, replace the black with white and the African with European and you'd be a racist... very depressing stuff.

I take it that interview isnae available online Otto? Much else good in this issue? A friend is coming over next week who I can ask to bring a copy...

11Freunde interviews always take some time before being put online

maybe not really worth bringing over to England

the other interesting points in the interview are either well known ( Gündogan was ATTACKED on his facebook page for choosing Germany over Turkey by "Deutsch-Türken" and NOT Turkey based Türken; and he just does not get this, thinking the Deutsch-Türken of all people should be able to understand)

he also says the D-T "igeln sich zu sehr ein", or something like that

and are just not very open at all

one or two interesting points about D-T footballers

he and Ekici think that in the past D-T footballer were way too SELFISH and "ball-verliebt"

they just wanted to show off but did not get the Mannschaft-idea

but that this was now changing

-----

try to get your friend to buy an e-bay copy of Jen's book instead

a FAR FAR better investment, me thinks

Sociological question here that needs to be asked in light of the BAE / Defoe story (it's actually quite an old one actually)

WHY is it that individuals of African decent in France feel so unmoved to represent France? What is it that is different there, when in England the likes of Defoe and Lennon and the vast number of black Brits with West Indian / African heritage are happy to represent England? All that, despite the general feeling that there is still insitutionalised racism within England. So why is it "worse" in France?

We may call BAE odious, but there has to be a reason why he feels more Cameroonian than French, despite being brought up and living in France. Is it that immigrant communities in France don't try and integrate, or is it that the French and the authorities in France make it difficult for them to integrate?

I think back to the PSG riots, when whites in one stand end up fighting OTHER PSG fans from the "ethnic" stand. I also have a good friend who is French Arab who moved to London because he couldn't stand being turned down for work, being turned away at restaurants/nighclubs etc, all because of his athnicity. Since being in London, he tells me he has never incurred the same treatment, and actually chooses to support England OVER France in football, alongside Algeria, where his family originates. Again, I have Asian friends who all support England, all of them consider themselves British Asians. Despite the fact that there is still plenty of racism here, the wars in Iraq/Afghanistan etc.

What is it about France that seems to ostricise the immigrant communities to a higher degree? Is it because immigration is more recent than in the UK? Is it as simple as that?

Go!