N'Zogbia vs Lennon

Deluded F*ck wrote:Oh and Rodallega >>> Crouch.

Is this possible to draw this conclusion before we see Rodallega in a team where he is not the best player and is always against teams parking the bus?

P.S. Looks like Benzema might be back on the market this summer after all...

Jaime wrote:
P.S. Looks like Benzema might be back on the market this summer after all...

how much would Madrid be looking for ?

Matt_AFC wrote:

Jaime wrote:
P.S. Looks like Benzema might be back on the market this summer after all...

how much would Madrid be looking for ?

Papers are saying €35-40m.

I'm not sure whether Madrid can expect to break even on him. He only had that 2 month run of great form after all. (And I say this as one of his biggest fans)

Deluded F*ck™ wrote:I'm not sure whether Madrid can expect to break even on him. He only had that 2 month run of great form after all. (And I say this as one of his biggest fans)

But surely with the fees that Carroll and Torres commanded it's not completely unreasonable to expect is it?

Jaime wrote:

Deluded F*ck wrote:Oh and Rodallega >>> Crouch.

Is this possible to draw this conclusion before we see Rodallega in a team where he is not the best player and is always against teams parking the bus?

Owned.

The pro-Lennon lot aren't coming up with very good arguments, N'Zogbia is only scoring goals, winning games, and scoring freekicks because he plays for a poor team? Hmm, ok.

Anyway, the local press seem confident that Zog will come back here, so maybe we will see him playing for a big club again soon enough.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/newcastle-united/nufc-news/2011/05/19/charles-n-zogbia-targets-return-to-newcastle-72703-28723651/

Jaime wrote:

Deluded F*ck™ wrote:I'm not sure whether Madrid can expect to break even on him. He only had that 2 month run of great form after all. (And I say this as one of his biggest fans)

But surely with the fees that Carroll and Torres commanded it's not completely unreasonable to expect is it?

That last day of January was a sellers market though. The buying clubs were at a disadvantage in the negotiating stakes.

Kimbo wrote:

Jaime wrote:

Deluded F*ck wrote:Oh and Rodallega >>> Crouch.

Is this possible to draw this conclusion before we see Rodallega in a team where he is not the best player and is always against teams parking the bus?

Owned.

The pro-Lennon lot aren't coming up with very good arguments, N'Zogbia is only scoring goals, winning games, and scoring freekicks because he plays for a poor team? Hmm, ok.

Anyway, the local press seem confident that Zog will come back here, so maybe we will see him playing for a big club again soon enough.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/newcastle-united/nufc-news/2011/05/19/charles-n-zogbia-targets-return-to-newcastle-72703-28723651/

It's not really that difficult a concept to grasp: some players thrive on being a big fish in a small pond, playing for a team where expectations are low. It's been seen many, many times before. I can name hundreds of players who've struggled to repeat their form in a "smaller" club when they've had a go at a top club.

Also, whilst Lennon has been playing in the San Siro and providing assists in big European games like the one to Crouch V Milan or the one to Bale Vs Inter, N'Zogbia has been doing it against the likes of West Ham. Something your "stats" don't show

I hope N'Zogbia jumps back onto the ship he previously couldn't wait to get off. Sure he'll go down as a Geordie Legend for showing that kind of commitment. I can see why you're so keen to rekindle this argument. Hopefully you can drag back up the Martins Vs Berbatov one soon too

Noah und der Bale wrote:
It's not really that difficult a concept to grasp: some players thrive on being a big fish in a small pond, playing for a team where expectations are low. It's been seen many, many times before. I can name hundreds of players who've struggled to repeat their form in a "smaller" club when they've had a go at a top club.

Also, whilst Lennon has been playing in the San Siro and providing assists in big European games like the one to Crouch V Milan or the one to Bale Vs Inter, N'Zogbia has been doing it against the likes of West Ham. Something your "stats" don't show

I hope N'Zogbia jumps back onto the ship he previously couldn't wait to get off. Sure he'll go down as a Geordie Legend for showing that kind of commitment. I can see why you're so keen to rekindle this argument. Hopefully you can drag back up the Martins Vs Berbatov one soon too

Nah, it's one of those bullshit arguments that are way too convenient. So-and-so only looks good because he plays for a bad team, so-and-so only looks bad because he plays for a bad team, so-and-so only looks good because he plays for a good team, so-and-so only looks bad because he plays alongside superstars. It seems to be the last refuge of the desperate agenda.

You say N'Zogbia has just been doing it against the likes of West Ham, well why hasn't Lennon? 3 goals and 3 assists is SHOCKING, it's worse than Jonas. You guys should be questioning whether he is all style and no substance.

N'Zogbia had a fallout with Joe Kinnear, nobody really dislikes him here, and he would be coming to a very different club to the one he left.

Any truth in the rumours that Harry was pissed off with Lennon? Saying he doesnt take instructions n stuff..or was that media bull?

Kimbo wrote:

Noah und der Bale wrote:
It's not really that difficult a concept to grasp: some players thrive on being a big fish in a small pond, playing for a team where expectations are low. It's been seen many, many times before. I can name hundreds of players who've struggled to repeat their form in a "smaller" club when they've had a go at a top club.

Also, whilst Lennon has been playing in the San Siro and providing assists in big European games like the one to Crouch V Milan or the one to Bale Vs Inter, N'Zogbia has been doing it against the likes of West Ham. Something your "stats" don't show

I hope N'Zogbia jumps back onto the ship he previously couldn't wait to get off. Sure he'll go down as a Geordie Legend for showing that kind of commitment. I can see why you're so keen to rekindle this argument. Hopefully you can drag back up the Martins Vs Berbatov one soon too

Nah, it's one of those bullshit arguments that are way too convenient. So-and-so only looks good because he plays for a bad team, so-and-so only looks bad because he plays for a bad team, so-and-so only looks good because he plays for a good team, so-and-so only looks bad because he plays alongside superstars. It seems to be the last refuge of the desperate agenda.

You say N'Zogbia has just been doing it against the likes of West Ham, well why hasn't Lennon? 3 goals and 3 assists is SHOCKING, it's worse than Jonas. You guys should be questioning whether he is all style and no substance.

N'Zogbia had a fallout with Joe Kinnear, nobody really dislikes him here, and he would be coming to a very different club to the one he left.

You seem to be under the impression that because Lennon is a Spurs player he is exempt from criticism and "questioning" from Spurs fans. The fact is that if you ask ANY Spurs fan worth their salt they will name Lennon as a crucial first team player who should play every game. He's that useful and important to us. I don't think you realise how many goal scoring chances have been squandered by the forwards this season.

Were he really style over substance a la David Bentley for example, Spurs fans would be the first to want him out of the team. Incidentally Bentley is the perfect example - big time at Blackburn, couldn't cut it at Spurs and now can't even cut it a Brum. And for the record, a player who you also said was better than Lennon. Maybe I'll resurrect that one eh?

The argument against N'Zogbia is hardly desperate, it's pretty unanimous that N'Zogbia has had a very good season. Better than Lennon individually when done purely on stats, but these things require context, otherwise we can all proclaim Lampard is better than Xavi.

christmasborocooper wrote:Any truth in the rumours that Harry was pissed off with Lennon? Saying he doesnt take instructions n stuff..or was that media bull?

That's stemmed from "flu-gate" prior to the Madrid game. Don't think there's much to it to be honest - 'Arry is obviously good at manipulating the media, and saying he felt ill and was pulled out 5 minutes before the game was clearly not true and angered Lennon. There has been the odd rumour that Lennon might be sold, but it's speculation that I don't believe for a second.

Noah und der Bale wrote:You seem to be under the impression that because Lennon is a Spurs player he is exempt from criticism and "questioning" from Spurs fans. The fact is that if you ask ANY Spurs fan worth their salt they will name Lennon as a crucial first team player who should play every game. He's that useful and important to us. I don't think you realise how many goal scoring chances have been squandered by the forwards this season.

Were he really style over substance a la David Bentley for example, Spurs fans would be the first to want him out of the team. Incidentally Bentley is the perfect example - big time at Blackburn, couldn't cut it at Spurs and now can't even cut it a Brum. And for the record, a player who you also said was better than Lennon. Maybe I'll resurrect that one eh?

The argument against N'Zogbia is hardly desperate, it's pretty unanimous that N'Zogbia has had a very good season. Better than Lennon individually when done purely on stats, but these things require context, otherwise we can all proclaim Lampard is better than Xavi.

But that is bollocks, Lampard and Xavi don't play the same role, Zog and Lennon do. The main difference being N'Zogbia has a killer instinct in the final 3rd and has shooting ability, he's simply a smarter and more technical player. It's not just about stats, it's also about their attributes, how many freekicks do you see Lennon scoring? How many has he ever scored?

Now you're going to dress this up and call N'Zogbia a "forward", which is a barefaced yiddo lie.

lol 3 3 stats, have to say

marin, schürrle, poldi > lennon

but lets not forget that bremen made him look good

GERMANY

Kimbo wrote:

Noah und der Bale wrote:You seem to be under the impression that because Lennon is a Spurs player he is exempt from criticism and "questioning" from Spurs fans. The fact is that if you ask ANY Spurs fan worth their salt they will name Lennon as a crucial first team player who should play every game. He's that useful and important to us. I don't think you realise how many goal scoring chances have been squandered by the forwards this season.

Were he really style over substance a la David Bentley for example, Spurs fans would be the first to want him out of the team. Incidentally Bentley is the perfect example - big time at Blackburn, couldn't cut it at Spurs and now can't even cut it a Brum. And for the record, a player who you also said was better than Lennon. Maybe I'll resurrect that one eh?

The argument against N'Zogbia is hardly desperate, it's pretty unanimous that N'Zogbia has had a very good season. Better than Lennon individually when done purely on stats, but these things require context, otherwise we can all proclaim Lampard is better than Xavi.

But that is bollocks, Lampard and Xavi don't play the same role, Zog and Lennon do. The main difference being N'Zogbia has a killer instinct in the final 3rd and has shooting ability, he's simply a smarter and more technical player. It's not just about stats, it's also about their attributes, how many freekicks do you see Lennon scoring? How many has he ever scored?

Now you're going to dress this up and call N'Zogbia a "forward", which is a barefaced yiddo lie.

I honestly don't give a shit Kimbo - N Zogbia has had a decent season, he was hardly on the radar since he left Newcastle, you've kept quiet through all that, and now you're piping up trying to tell everyone "I told you so!". Great. So he takes free kicks and Lennon doesn't. As I said, if there was a problem with Lennon, Spurs fans would be the first to complain about it. But there isn't, he's a crucial player for us, he performs in big games, has a history of shredding top full backs.

@Kroos - put your calculator away you boring man

Kimbo's only bigging the Zog up now because he thinks Newcastle will sign him back in the summer. They should focus on signing a left back once we poach Enrique from them

Luis wrote:Kimbo's only bigging the Zog up now because he thinks Newcastle will sign him back in the summer. They should focus on signing a left back once we poach Enrique from them

I think we are, we've been linked to a few. If Enrique leaves he will be replaced.

I've brought up this thread because it's the end of the season, I felt that the general opinion would be different this time around(check out the poll),and yes i think the debate has been settled. I've done nothing sinister here.

How can the debate be settled off the back of one season?? We re not talking about a Messi v Rooney or a Berbatov V Martins, or a Glen Johnson V Beye - aside from the fact that we ve not even taken into account Lennons stats in the CL where the standard is higher than the EPL in general- there really isn't that much difference in the 2 to consider yourself somehow victorious, who knows what will happen next season. These debates are incredibly fickle, you also argued Milner was better than Lennon back around 2006- at Villa he probably was stats wise, now one season later hes not. Things change

You're right the debate probably isn't over, but the poll shows that opinions have changed significantly, so i think it was worth making a thread about. Ofcourse i could've not started a thread and the place could've remained dead, but whatever.

Kimbo, according to ESPN Soccernet, N Zogbia has had 76 shots at goal to Lennon's 26 in the league this season.

50 shots more. More than Any Spurs striker too.

Yeah, same position. Not a "forward" at all

Noah und der Bale wrote:Kimbo, according to ESPN Soccernet, N Zogbia has had 76 shots at goal to Lennon's 36 in the league this season.

40 shots more. More than Any Spurs striker too.

Yeah, same position. Not a "forward" at all

That's because Lennon fannies about in the final 3rd, whereas N'Zogbia is direct and goes for it. Also those stats prove that N'Zogbia has a better shot/goal ratio.

Has anyone mentioned that Crouch had more assists than N'Zogbia?

He's right that the Lampard-Xavi argument is bullshit though - I confess I don't get it at all. Xavi routinely clocks up well over 100 passes a game at a success rate of over 95% and anyone who doesn't have him in their top three players in the world is a numpty. Also the "big fish in a small pond" argument is a lame agenda point designed to evade the issue.

No one's saying Lennon is a bad player, he can be very effective and frighten any defence with his pace and ability to beat players, but he has been comprehensively overshadowed by Bale lately and it seems fair to give credit to players who have better end product and are technically superior, particularly given that those things were what Lennon used to be so lauded for.

Yes, it will be interesting if the Zog gets a chance with France or a bigger club sometime soon. As it is, you can't do that much better than being arguably the most creative player at your club over the last four years or so.

Kimbo wrote:

Noah und der Bale wrote:Kimbo, according to ESPN Soccernet, N Zogbia has had 76 shots at goal to Lennon's 36 in the league this season.

40 shots more. More than Any Spurs striker too.

Yeah, same position. Not a "forward" at all

That's because Lennon fannies about in the final 3rd, whereas N'Zogbia is direct and goes for it. Also those stats prove that N'Zogbia has a better shot/goal ratio.

He's taken more shots than Hernandez FFS. And Defoe. I suppose they fanny about too do they?

3 in 26 against 9 in 76 doesn't seem that different.

It's quite clear they don't play similar positions at all- Lennon is very much a traditional wide player. N Zogbia isn't.

By the way, Modric has 3 goals 3 assists as well. I suppose he's all style no substance , and Nolan's 11 and 1 means teams looking for attacking midfielders such as Man United, Chelsea and Inter will almost certainly be on the phone to big Kev's agent as opposed to Luka's. Stats eh. Concrete

3 in 36, 0trick, 1 goal in every 12 shots.
9 in 76, 0trick, 1 goal in every 8.4 shots.

I would be interested to see what Defoe's stats are.

And they do play in the same position, the difference being N'Zogbia cuts inside, links up with the striker and runs beyond him, AS A WINGER SHOULD.

3 in 26 Dimbo. Read again. That makes a goal in every 8.6 shots. As I said, not much difference.

Defoe's stats would be tragic.

And no, a winger shouldnt necessarily need to cut inside and beyond the striker. Lennon is more like Valencia at United, whilst N Zogbia is more like Nani. Valencia gets behind fullbacks and cuts back from the byline, rarely going inside. Nani often cuts inside and plays more centrally. Nani had better stats, but when United played Chelsea, fergle stated he put out his strongest side. Guess who was on the bench. Clue: He resembles a pepperami

You said 36 Dumbo.

Where are you getting these stats from?

Kimbo wrote:You said 36 Dumbo.

Where are you getting these stats from?

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team/squad?id=367&cc=5901

I think Noah had a typing error in his original post. According to this it was 26 shots for Lennon.

Incidentally, Defoe scored 4 from 64 shots.

Kimbo, kudos for making some debate. I'm going to knock up a Tiote v Sandro thread. What says ye Jaime- which would you prefer at Madrid?