Premier League Week 2 Discussion 20/21/22nd of August 2011

Depressed. We held our own for 60 minutes then capitulated after the first goal. I was initially worried about Kranjcar and Livermore and still felt we gave them way to much space even in the first half. We bossed the early part of the second half and the game changed when Lennon didn't cut the ball back to Rafa. From then they stepped it up and scored a good first goal and went on from there.
My worry was once we were one down and united on the front foot we put Hudd (blatantly not fully fit) and VDV in as our CM pairing - away to man united that was the recipe for disaster.

Overall I don't think we deserved a 3-0 loss. I thought Kaboul was excellent, BAE was solid. Just think it highlighted how vulnerable we are - even though Harry made out he was unaware of our poor record I think the players were - they didn't believe we could come back from one goal down.

Finally - united's youngsters looked good - I think Smalling is a great player, Cleverly looks good - but until his (very good) header Wellbeck was shocking. Jones annoyed me - looks like the next Jonathan Woodgate (without injuries) to me.

Noah und der Bale wrote:Walker not as good as or better than Johnson? He played most of last season for Villa and now our first choice right back so there's no argument he doesn't have experience.

Parker is 31 playing first division. Livermore was excellent yesterday in the holding role and no coincidence United only began to knock the ball around freely in midfield after he came off. Sure it's early, but how many dm alternatives are there? This kid is good, absolutely no question.

Lennon had an average game with his decision making, but he still flamed Evra a number of times. We re blessed with many alternatives in his position so yes, he needs to up his game for a place.

Huddlestone hasn't played enough.

Defoe - still in my opinion a much better all-round link up player than Bent but just hasn't scored enough last season, I predict he'll be back in the squad by Christmas, he's looked sharp this and with Adebayor I see a decent partnership.

But by all means happy for people to write us off for losing at old Trafford in our first game of the season

I wasn't writing you off ffs - I was predicting what squad Capello will pick.

Of the Spurs options I've so viciously ignored:

Lennon, I think he is behind Johnson, Walcott, Young, Milner & Downing for a wing spot in Capello's mind - hasn't even got in squad lately.

Huddlestone had interrupted season last year, so needs a few months of form before being considered again, and I think Capello is likely to go with Barry, Carrick & Parker before him.

Walker has got in squads without playing so is clearly on the fringes. But he hasn't proved himself better than Johnson - rather similar players with similar strengths/flaws imo & hence I think it seems more likely that he'll only take one of them & have a more versatile player who can also play CB as cover (e.g. Richards/Smalling/Jagielka). And while Walker is getting experience, he's still miles behind Johnson on that front.

Livermore - if you missed the point of my post it was that I don't believe Capello will pick many young players when it comes to the crunch time. I missed the first half hour or so yesterday so perhaps didn't clock his best bits, but honestly I barely noticed the guy & it was about his first game for Spurs, so you'll surely forgive me for not predicting him to be picked in the England squad just yet? Besides which is Livermore going to feature much when Sandro & THudd are fit?

Defoe might get back in the mix, again I was just going off recent choices & Bent has been much more in favour in the qualifiers & much more consistent scorer of late. If Defoe gets back regular spot & starts scoring again things might change. And he could take 4 strikers, but even still I sense it'll be Bent & Defoe competing for one spot.

Dawson seems to have dropped out of favour behind Jagielka, Cahill, Lescott, & emergence of Smalling will make it harder.

Broadway Danny Rose hasn't played enough & faces tough competition either LB or LW.

Ledley King surely won't be trusted again.

Jenas & Bentley don't play anymore.

Have I forgotten anyone? Ah yes, one you ignored and the most likely Spurs player to be picked: The Crouch

Fatty got really frustrated with Lennon & Defoe.

Good to see Kaboul putting in a solid performance.

@Baser - yes, you are vicious, and a DISGRACE. Just like your club and MON :grrr:

Fatty was pretty useless yesterday, those little one touch passes he likes to do just weren't coming off. One near the beginning he gave straight away to Rooney I think and they almost scored. I wouldn't be surprised if Lennon and Defoe were a little less confident passing him the ball, he was having one of those games.

He's also frustrating when he comes back plays so deep. Personally I thought given the circumstances, Defoe played well. So often he was isolated because VDV "did a Rooney circa 2008" and was back playing central defender / central midfielder / winger or wherever the fuck he felt like roaming too. Plus he shooting and set pieces were piss poor. He's one of those players - when it goes for him and he finds his range and the spaces, he's fantastic. But when he's off the pace and forcing it too hard, he's a pain in the ass to watch.

Credit though to Man United for nullifying him, they are just so strong, quick and athletic aswell as being technically good footballers - they were so often there to knock VDV off the ball, around Defoe like flies to shit etc. They are a fantastic side and we got a proper hiding after they scored, there is no doubting that. TS, you're spot on about Jones. Smalling was brilliant, but Jones was their best defender. A truly worrying prospect given they looked absolutely rock solid without Vidic/Rio.

Fair to say we missed Modric. Krnajcar will do it against the smaller sides when he has time on the ball. But if anything was learnt yesterday, he's unlikely to dominate a top class midfield in that position (not his natural one)

Like Fat Frank loves to feed off Drog, Fat Raf needs Crouch to thrive. And neither can play in a 2 man CM without it being wide open and messy. He should've been the one sacrificed for Pav..

Remember when you (and others...) crucified me for my opinion on the Dutch "fab four" a few weeks ago Bernd? REMEMBER THAT?

Kneejerk and LOVING IT BECAUSE IT'S TRUE.

Sneijder/Robben > Vdv/RVP, Isn't it? I'm with you there!

Ja! You are a good guy, mein Herr.

I'm not writing off VDV Blut you sneaky sausage, this isn't knee jerk, his tendency to roam is both brilliant (when breaking rigid defensive lines) and infuriating, yet he is still a key player. He will never suit a rigid team game plan, granted, but he epitomises the mercurial genius that football would frankly be a much shittier sport without.

Debbie is wrong, VDV doesn't need Crouch's knockdowns, but what he does need is a central midfield that holds firm in it's positioning (Livermore dropped deep last night, rightly, to nullify United's threat whilst Kranjcar not playing in his natural position struggled to stay disciplined and hold his position) to stop VDV drifting so deep, thus leaving a massive gap between midfield and the striker. His best position is sneaking those quick one-twos just infront the opposition defence. He'll do that well with Defoe against lesser sides than United. Had we played with Crouch on his own upfront and not Defoe, we would have been much worse and conceded possession continually, you can be sure of that.

VDV wasn't completely useless if I'm fair, his ability to retain the ball as it comes to him is tremendous and showed it again last night. It's just his offloading was inaccurate and his positioning just plain silly

Noah und der Bale wrote:Walker not as good as or better than Johnson? He played most of last season for Villa and now our first choice right back so there's no argument he doesn't have experience.

Parker is 31 playing first division. Livermore was excellent yesterday in the holding role and no coincidence United only began to knock the ball around freely in midfield after he came off. Sure it's early, but how many dm alternatives are there? This kid is good, absolutely no question.

Lennon had an average game with his decision making, but he still flamed Evra a number of times. We re blessed with many alternatives in his position so yes, he needs to up his game for a place.

Huddlestone hasn't played enough.

Defoe - still in my opinion a much better all-round link up player than Bent but just hasn't scored enough last season, I predict he'll be back in the squad by Christmas, he's looked sharp this and with Adebayor I see a decent partnership.

But by all means happy for people to write us off for losing at old Trafford in our first game of the season

Kyle Walker isnt better than Johnson at the moment no..might be as good..but then Johnson has more experience so he'd get in. At the moment i'd have Smalling in as 2nd choice anyway given how immense he seems to be.

Livermore? How many Premiership games does this boy have? 2? Get out of here.

Lennon is currently behind several wingers IMO, has a lot of work to do. As has always been the problem he cant shoot or cross as well as his competition..and now he isnt the only one who can run fast with the ball at his feet.

Defoe is okay..but he never seems to do enough and he was pretty shit last season when he was fit. Bent is deserves chances at least..if he fails badly so be it. Move on to the next one.

I dont think Debaser was just not picking all these players because they play for Spurs..it's because they dont really have any more right than others to be in there.

MAN UP YOU PUSS

Crazily, I think even Walcott is a better crosser than Lennon these days.

So many anti-Lennon agendas.

Lennon wasn't that bad. One big moment fucked, but he gave Evra a run around.

How many wingers have gone to old Trafford and done real damage anyway? Hey? Hey?

Lots of people have been giving Evra the run around for about a year..and giving someone the run around is pointless if you dont use the ball properly.

Noah und der Bale wrote:Lennon wasn't that bad. One big moment fucked, but he gave Evra a run around.

How many wingers have gone to old Trafford and done real damage anyway? Hey? Hey?

You're becoming a lonely voice in the crowd 0trick.

christmasborocooper wrote:

Giles Smith wrote a great article in the Times on Sat which i don't think I can copy and paste on here unfortunately.

It was basically mocking teh British attitude to waving of imaginary cards.

If a player is the victim of a genuine YC offence and waves and imaginary card he will be slaughtered.

Yet if Phil Jones knows 100% that Bale didn't dive he can still make gestures to the ref suggesting that bale committed a yellow card offence and that's fine ?!


United look very impressive