Premier League Fixtures 14/15/16 September 2013

Hlebagone wrote:I think Scholes is better than Gerrard, as he's just better at football than Gerrard. Thought I'd clear that one up for you.


Technically, they have a similar level, in their ability to pass, shoot. But Scholes has a far better understanding of how to control a game, dominate the tempo, and when to play the right pass. Gerrard's got better at this in the past couple of years, but is still fairly poor in that regard.

Are you the man who is able to name 3 CL games against top teams where scholes has controlled the tempo?

Kimbo wrote:

Luis wrote:

Hlebagone wrote:I think Scholes is better than Gerrard, as he's just better at football than Gerrard. Thought I'd clear that one up for you.


Technically, they have a similar level, in their ability to pass, shoot. But Scholes has a far better understanding of how to control a game, dominate the tempo, and when to play the right pass. Gerrard's got better at this in the past couple of years, but is still fairly poor in that regard.

Gerrard seemed to play the right pass to Torres quite a lot on top of scoring about 20-30 goals himself that season.

Has anyone mentioned the fact that Scholes' tackling was an absolute fucking disgrace to the English game yet or are we laughing it off like Martin Tyler?

Scholes' tackling is clearly his major downside, Stevie(as the pundits call him) is pretty filthy himself mind.

Is he? When was the last time he got sent off let alone a booking?

christmasborocooper wrote:

Luis wrote:

christmasborocooper wrote:

110% wrote:

christmasborocooper wrote:

110% wrote:

christmasborocooper wrote:I tend not to retain my yearly lists of who gives a shit information to be honest.

I think Neville made it clear early on that he wasn't in to comparing the three. He just thinks Scholes is the best and gave his reason. Carragher gave his for Gerrard. The problem came when Carragher tried to argue with easily dismissable arguments.

I didn't hear Carragher answering why Gerrard was put on the right wing. I did hear Neville give a reason for Scholes being on the left.

I heard Neville being asked "did Scholes win enough games" to which his answer was yes and gave reasons why.. Carraghers argument again basically being "but that's not scoring goals la".. Showing he missed the point..

I don't say carragher answers well, but he made a good point on veron, for which he was ridiculed, including on here. I don't get that ridicule, while at the same point support for neville who was equally as bad in trying to make his points. Carragher didn't get a chance to answer the question on gerrard being on the right for liverpool, and neville's answer of "easy option" for scholes being on the left for england made no sense.

You don't need to provide a list, but since everyone seems to think "Scholes control tempo" is a given, it must be pretty easy to name 3 games in the CL, against top teams where scholes has controlled the tempo. I can't think of even one

Well that's not something I really care about.

And his point on it being the easy option makes perfect sense. Is he right and is it true? Don't know, but I'd say Neville seems more likely to know than you and me.

Carragher didn't just not answer well.. He just didn't answer. He couldn't.

In the same way no-one can list 3 games against top teams in the CL where scholes controlled the tempo  

We're not being paid to and embarrassing ourselves though

I've no problem with Gerrard. No more so than with Scholes. I just think Scholes was better. They've both scored lots of goals and both won lots of games. They've both excelled in more than one role. It's a pretty pointless comparison. Probably why Carragher fell apart.

Why do you think Scholes was better though? You can't criticise someone for not backing up their argument when you very rarely do it yourself.

I can criticise someone for not doing it when it's their job to do it. I'd get criticiseda at work if I was doing a bad job too.

I just preferred Scholes' style. Enjoyed watching him more. I do think he could control games more where Gerrard was always more of an engine room bombing around. Nothing wrong with that. I just saw Scholes as a rarer type of player but one that was capable of some spectacular moments too.

If you wanted more.. I guess I'd say He also won more than Gerrard is ever likely to.

Scholes played for a better team so his team obviously won more. How about comparing their individual achievements?

Lists copied from wikipedia

Paul Scholes individual awards:
Jimmy Murphy Young Player of the Year (1): 1992–93
Premier League Player of the Month (4): January 2003, December 2003, October 2006, August 2010
PFA Team of the Year (2): 2002–03, 2006–07
Premier League 10 Seasons Awards (1992–93 to 2001–02): Domestic & Overall Team of the Decade
English Football Hall of Fame Inductee: 2008

Steven Gerrard's individual awards:
Ballon d'Or Bronze Award (1): 2005
UEFA Club Footballer of the Year (1): 2005
FWA Footballer of the Year (1): 2009
FWA Tribute Award (1): 2013
PFA Players' Player of the Year (1): 2006
PFA Young Player of the Year (1): 2001
PFA Fans' Player of the Year (2): 2001, 2009
England Player of the Year Award (2): 2007, 2012
PFA Team of the Year (7): 2001, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
Liverpool Top Goalscorer (3): 2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09
UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament (1): 2012
UEFA Team of the Year (3): 2005, 2006, 2007
FIFA/FIFPro World XI (3): 2007, 2008, 2009
ESM Team of the Year (1): 2008–09
Goal of the Season (1): 2006
UEFA Champions League Final Man of the Match (1): 2005
FA Cup Final Man of the Match (1): 2006
Premier League Player of the Month Award (5): March 2001, March 2003, December 2004, April 2006, March 2009
Member of the Order of the British Empire: 2007
Honorary Fellowship from Liverpool John Moores University: 2008
BBC Sports Personality of the Year Award – 3rd Place: 2005
IFFHS World's Most Popular Footballer: 2006

Luis wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

Luis wrote:

Hlebagone wrote:I think Scholes is better than Gerrard, as he's just better at football than Gerrard. Thought I'd clear that one up for you.


Technically, they have a similar level, in their ability to pass, shoot. But Scholes has a far better understanding of how to control a game, dominate the tempo, and when to play the right pass. Gerrard's got better at this in the past couple of years, but is still fairly poor in that regard.

Gerrard seemed to play the right pass to Torres quite a lot on top of scoring about 20-30 goals himself that season.

Has anyone mentioned the fact that Scholes' tackling was an absolute fucking disgrace to the English game yet or are we laughing it off like Martin Tyler?

Scholes' tackling is clearly his major downside, Stevie(as the pundits call him) is pretty filthy himself mind.

Is he? When was the last time he got sent off let alone a booking?

Brilliant, he thinks Gerrard is a clean player! And i'm being called biased. 

Kimbo wrote:

Luis wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

Luis wrote:

Hlebagone wrote:I think Scholes is better than Gerrard, as he's just better at football than Gerrard. Thought I'd clear that one up for you.


Technically, they have a similar level, in their ability to pass, shoot. But Scholes has a far better understanding of how to control a game, dominate the tempo, and when to play the right pass. Gerrard's got better at this in the past couple of years, but is still fairly poor in that regard.

Gerrard seemed to play the right pass to Torres quite a lot on top of scoring about 20-30 goals himself that season.

Has anyone mentioned the fact that Scholes' tackling was an absolute fucking disgrace to the English game yet or are we laughing it off like Martin Tyler?

Scholes' tackling is clearly his major downside, Stevie(as the pundits call him) is pretty filthy himself mind.

Is he? When was the last time he got sent off let alone a booking?

Brilliant, he thinks Gerrard is a clean player! And i'm being called biased. 

So ignore the question and churn out the same biased nonsense.

Kimmy  

110% wrote:

christmasborocooper wrote:

Luis wrote:

christmasborocooper wrote:

110% wrote:

christmasborocooper wrote:

110% wrote:

christmasborocooper wrote:I tend not to retain my yearly lists of who gives a shit information to be honest.

I think Neville made it clear early on that he wasn't in to comparing the three. He just thinks Scholes is the best and gave his reason. Carragher gave his for Gerrard. The problem came when Carragher tried to argue with easily dismissable arguments.

I didn't hear Carragher answering why Gerrard was put on the right wing. I did hear Neville give a reason for Scholes being on the left.

I heard Neville being asked "did Scholes win enough games" to which his answer was yes and gave reasons why.. Carraghers argument again basically being "but that's not scoring goals la".. Showing he missed the point..

I don't say carragher answers well, but he made a good point on veron, for which he was ridiculed, including on here. I don't get that ridicule, while at the same point support for neville who was equally as bad in trying to make his points. Carragher didn't get a chance to answer the question on gerrard being on the right for liverpool, and neville's answer of "easy option" for scholes being on the left for england made no sense.

You don't need to provide a list, but since everyone seems to think "Scholes control tempo" is a given, it must be pretty easy to name 3 games in the CL, against top teams where scholes has controlled the tempo. I can't think of even one

Well that's not something I really care about.

And his point on it being the easy option makes perfect sense. Is he right and is it true? Don't know, but I'd say Neville seems more likely to know than you and me.

Carragher didn't just not answer well.. He just didn't answer. He couldn't.

In the same way no-one can list 3 games against top teams in the CL where scholes controlled the tempo  

We're not being paid to and embarrassing ourselves though

I've no problem with Gerrard. No more so than with Scholes. I just think Scholes was better. They've both scored lots of goals and both won lots of games. They've both excelled in more than one role. It's a pretty pointless comparison. Probably why Carragher fell apart.

Why do you think Scholes was better though? You can't criticise someone for not backing up their argument when you very rarely do it yourself.

I can criticise someone for not doing it when it's their job to do it. I'd get criticiseda at work if I was doing a bad job too.

I just preferred Scholes' style. Enjoyed watching him more. I do think he could control games more where Gerrard was always more of an engine room bombing around. Nothing wrong with that. I just saw Scholes as a rarer type of player but one that was capable of some spectacular moments too.

If you wanted more.. I guess I'd say He also won more than Gerrard is ever likely to.

Scholes played for a better team so his team obviously won more. How about comparing their individual achievements?

Lists copied from wikipedia

Paul Scholes individual awards:
Jimmy Murphy Young Player of the Year (1): 1992–93
Premier League Player of the Month (4): January 2003, December 2003, October 2006, August 2010
PFA Team of the Year (2): 2002–03, 2006–07
Premier League 10 Seasons Awards (1992–93 to 2001–02): Domestic & Overall Team of the Decade
English Football Hall of Fame Inductee: 2008

Steven Gerrard's individual awards:
Ballon d'Or Bronze Award (1): 2005
UEFA Club Footballer of the Year (1): 2005
FWA Footballer of the Year (1): 2009
FWA Tribute Award (1): 2013
PFA Players' Player of the Year (1): 2006
PFA Young Player of the Year (1): 2001
PFA Fans' Player of the Year (2): 2001, 2009
England Player of the Year Award (2): 2007, 2012
PFA Team of the Year (7): 2001, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
Liverpool Top Goalscorer (3): 2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09
UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament (1): 2012
UEFA Team of the Year (3): 2005, 2006, 2007
FIFA/FIFPro World XI (3): 2007, 2008, 2009
ESM Team of the Year (1): 2008–09
Goal of the Season (1): 2006
UEFA Champions League Final Man of the Match (1): 2005
FA Cup Final Man of the Match (1): 2006
Premier League Player of the Month Award (5): March 2001, March 2003, December 2004, April 2006, March 2009
Member of the Order of the British Empire: 2007
Honorary Fellowship from Liverpool John Moores University: 2008
BBC Sports Personality of the Year Award – 3rd Place: 2005
IFFHS World's Most Popular Footballer: 2006

Because I'm not trying to prove one is the best like an obsessed fanboy?

Luis wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

Luis wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

Luis wrote:

Hlebagone wrote:I think Scholes is better than Gerrard, as he's just better at football than Gerrard. Thought I'd clear that one up for you.


Technically, they have a similar level, in their ability to pass, shoot. But Scholes has a far better understanding of how to control a game, dominate the tempo, and when to play the right pass. Gerrard's got better at this in the past couple of years, but is still fairly poor in that regard.

Gerrard seemed to play the right pass to Torres quite a lot on top of scoring about 20-30 goals himself that season.

Has anyone mentioned the fact that Scholes' tackling was an absolute fucking disgrace to the English game yet or are we laughing it off like Martin Tyler?

Scholes' tackling is clearly his major downside, Stevie(as the pundits call him) is pretty filthy himself mind.

Is he? When was the last time he got sent off let alone a booking?

Brilliant, he thinks Gerrard is a clean player! And i'm being called biased. 

So ignore the question and churn out the same biased nonsense.

Kimmy  

I don't know, maybe he gets an easy time from refs because of his status like Rooney?

Kimbo wrote:

Luis wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

Luis wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

Luis wrote:

Hlebagone wrote:I think Scholes is better than Gerrard, as he's just better at football than Gerrard. Thought I'd clear that one up for you.


Technically, they have a similar level, in their ability to pass, shoot. But Scholes has a far better understanding of how to control a game, dominate the tempo, and when to play the right pass. Gerrard's got better at this in the past couple of years, but is still fairly poor in that regard.

Gerrard seemed to play the right pass to Torres quite a lot on top of scoring about 20-30 goals himself that season.

Has anyone mentioned the fact that Scholes' tackling was an absolute fucking disgrace to the English game yet or are we laughing it off like Martin Tyler?

Scholes' tackling is clearly his major downside, Stevie(as the pundits call him) is pretty filthy himself mind.

Is he? When was the last time he got sent off let alone a booking?

Brilliant, he thinks Gerrard is a clean player! And i'm being called biased. 

So ignore the question and churn out the same biased nonsense.

Kimmy  

I don't know, maybe he gets an easy time from refs because of his status like Rooney?

Name me a recent incident where you felt he got away with something.

I haven't watched much of Liverpool recently.

Kimbo wrote:I haven't watched much of Liverpool recently.

 

Definitely don't become a pundit on Sky Kimmy.

Luis wrote:

Kimbo wrote:I haven't watched much of Liverpool recently.

 

Definitely don't become a pundit on Sky Kimmy.

How many Newcastle games have you watched so far this season?

Kimbo wrote:

Luis wrote:

Kimbo wrote:I haven't watched much of Liverpool recently.

 

Definitely don't become a pundit on Sky Kimmy.

How many Newcastle games have you watched so far this season?

One.

The difference is I'm not making nonsense accusations against one of your players because I have an agenda  

Luis wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

Luis wrote:

Kimbo wrote:I haven't watched much of Liverpool recently.

 

Definitely don't become a pundit on Sky Kimmy.

How many Newcastle games have you watched so far this season?

One.

The difference is I'm not making nonsense accusations against one of your players because I have an agenda  

It's not a nonsense accusation, i've seen him get away with several blatant elbows over the years and some nasty tackles, he went in knee high on one guy.

christmasborocooper wrote:

110% wrote:

christmasborocooper wrote:

Luis wrote:

christmasborocooper wrote:

110% wrote:

christmasborocooper wrote:

110% wrote:

christmasborocooper wrote:I tend not to retain my yearly lists of who gives a shit information to be honest.

I think Neville made it clear early on that he wasn't in to comparing the three. He just thinks Scholes is the best and gave his reason. Carragher gave his for Gerrard. The problem came when Carragher tried to argue with easily dismissable arguments.

I didn't hear Carragher answering why Gerrard was put on the right wing. I did hear Neville give a reason for Scholes being on the left.

I heard Neville being asked "did Scholes win enough games" to which his answer was yes and gave reasons why.. Carraghers argument again basically being "but that's not scoring goals la".. Showing he missed the point..

I don't say carragher answers well, but he made a good point on veron, for which he was ridiculed, including on here. I don't get that ridicule, while at the same point support for neville who was equally as bad in trying to make his points. Carragher didn't get a chance to answer the question on gerrard being on the right for liverpool, and neville's answer of "easy option" for scholes being on the left for england made no sense.

You don't need to provide a list, but since everyone seems to think "Scholes control tempo" is a given, it must be pretty easy to name 3 games in the CL, against top teams where scholes has controlled the tempo. I can't think of even one

Well that's not something I really care about.

And his point on it being the easy option makes perfect sense. Is he right and is it true? Don't know, but I'd say Neville seems more likely to know than you and me.

Carragher didn't just not answer well.. He just didn't answer. He couldn't.

In the same way no-one can list 3 games against top teams in the CL where scholes controlled the tempo  

We're not being paid to and embarrassing ourselves though

I've no problem with Gerrard. No more so than with Scholes. I just think Scholes was better. They've both scored lots of goals and both won lots of games. They've both excelled in more than one role. It's a pretty pointless comparison. Probably why Carragher fell apart.

Why do you think Scholes was better though? You can't criticise someone for not backing up their argument when you very rarely do it yourself.

I can criticise someone for not doing it when it's their job to do it. I'd get criticiseda at work if I was doing a bad job too.

I just preferred Scholes' style. Enjoyed watching him more. I do think he could control games more where Gerrard was always more of an engine room bombing around. Nothing wrong with that. I just saw Scholes as a rarer type of player but one that was capable of some spectacular moments too.

If you wanted more.. I guess I'd say He also won more than Gerrard is ever likely to.

Scholes played for a better team so his team obviously won more. How about comparing their individual achievements?

Lists copied from wikipedia

Paul Scholes individual awards:
Jimmy Murphy Young Player of the Year (1): 1992–93
Premier League Player of the Month (4): January 2003, December 2003, October 2006, August 2010
PFA Team of the Year (2): 2002–03, 2006–07
Premier League 10 Seasons Awards (1992–93 to 2001–02): Domestic & Overall Team of the Decade
English Football Hall of Fame Inductee: 2008

Steven Gerrard's individual awards:
Ballon d'Or Bronze Award (1): 2005
UEFA Club Footballer of the Year (1): 2005
FWA Footballer of the Year (1): 2009
FWA Tribute Award (1): 2013
PFA Players' Player of the Year (1): 2006
PFA Young Player of the Year (1): 2001
PFA Fans' Player of the Year (2): 2001, 2009
England Player of the Year Award (2): 2007, 2012
PFA Team of the Year (7): 2001, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
Liverpool Top Goalscorer (3): 2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09
UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament (1): 2012
UEFA Team of the Year (3): 2005, 2006, 2007
FIFA/FIFPro World XI (3): 2007, 2008, 2009
ESM Team of the Year (1): 2008–09
Goal of the Season (1): 2006
UEFA Champions League Final Man of the Match (1): 2005
FA Cup Final Man of the Match (1): 2006
Premier League Player of the Month Award (5): March 2001, March 2003, December 2004, April 2006, March 2009
Member of the Order of the British Empire: 2007
Honorary Fellowship from Liverpool John Moores University: 2008
BBC Sports Personality of the Year Award – 3rd Place: 2005
IFFHS World's Most Popular Footballer: 2006

Because I'm not trying to prove one is the best like an obsessed fanboy?

I was actually not trying to prove that gerrard is the best based on awards. I was trying to prove that your argument of "who has won more" is a bit flawed.

Which was a response to Luis bringing up how much Gerrard has won. Come on.

christmasborocooper wrote:Which was a response to Luis bringing up how much Gerrard has won. Come on.

You're going to have to point me to that post as I don't see it. The only person I saw compare how much they've won is you

Pretty sure you'll find a post where Luis brought up what Gerrard has won if you care to, it's hardly a crystal maze challenge I'll be off watching the football for a while.

christmasborocooper wrote:Pretty sure you'll find a post where Luis brought up what Gerrard has won if you care to, it's hardly a crystal maze challenge :k:I'll be off watching the football for a while.

He's not comparing how much they've won. He's just stated that gerrard hasn't won anything with england but he has plenty of trophies/awards.

Anyway I'll end with gerrard >> scholes and leave it there

keep it up guys, it looks like you're really close to an agreement.

will.i.glenn wrote:keep it up guys, it looks like you're really close to an agreement.

Was thinking the same thing. If only Putin and Obama talked it out in this manner.

Hashtag Diplomacy.

Never wanted an agreement.

Yes you did.

Didn't.

I just wanted to bust the myth of scholes controlling the tempo of games at the top level. No-one can give me a single game in the CL against good opposition. I'm pretty satisfied with my evening.

Go and ask some Man U fans, most of us don't have detailed archives of other teams games in our heads.

110% wrote:

Hlebagone wrote:I think Scholes is better than Gerrard, as he's just better at football than Gerrard. Thought I'd clear that one up for you.


Technically, they have a similar level, in their ability to pass, shoot. But Scholes has a far better understanding of how to control a game, dominate the tempo, and when to play the right pass. Gerrard's got better at this in the past couple of years, but is still fairly poor in that regard.

Are you the man who is able to name 3 CL games against top teams where scholes has controlled the tempo?

I'll give you FOUR:

Inter (A) 1999

Juventus 1999 (H)

Deportivo 2002 (A)

Milan 2007 (H) especially the 2nd half

As for big moments - Winner against Barcelona in 2008?

And let's not forget the occasions he showed up big for England, Away to Scotland in the playoff in Euro 2000, and his brilliance against Argentina (Veron was chased off the pitch!) in WC 2002. Gerrard/Lampard have never come close to that level for the national side.

@ Super - Scholes really only had 1 season as the no.10 behind a striker, that was 2002-03 where he really should have won player of the year. Gerrard is/was a superior athlete than Scholes and that was it really.

Oof

I don't really have a strong opinion either way, I agree with Neville in that it's a silly comparison - they are both so different. 

But you kinda let yourself down here

Dark Muggan™ wrote:Gerrard/Lampard have never come close to that level for the national side.

You are probably thinking of Nicky Butt vs Argentina in 2002. I have Germany 1-5 England on DVD and Gerrard was excellent. I'd be surprised if Scholes ever had a better game for England, let alone one at a level which 'Gerrard/Lampard have never come close to' 

and here

Dark Muggan™ wrote:Gerrard is/was a superior athlete than Scholes and that was it really.

I'd say that Gerrard was a better finisher, he was much more dynamic (PGD) better defensively and more versatile.

Lampard's movement and positional sense is far superior to Gerrard's but he lacks his athleticism and versatility. 

Scholes couldn't tackle and he loved getting his horrible ginger balls out. I don't think he had the same leadership qualities as Lampard or Gerrard but he was a better team player. Gerrard/Lampard are match winners though.

I think they're all very good in their own right, and like Neville said, it's like comparing Messi and Ronaldo.

Deluded F*ck wrote:

110% wrote:

Hlebagone wrote:I think Scholes is better than Gerrard, as he's just better at football than Gerrard. Thought I'd clear that one up for you.


Technically, they have a similar level, in their ability to pass, shoot. But Scholes has a far better understanding of how to control a game, dominate the tempo, and when to play the right pass. Gerrard's got better at this in the past couple of years, but is still fairly poor in that regard.

Are you the man who is able to name 3 CL games against top teams where scholes has controlled the tempo?

I'll give you FOUR:

Inter (A) 1999

Juventus 1999 (H)

Deportivo 2002 (A)

Milan 2007 (H) especially the 2nd half

As for big moments - Winner against Barcelona in 2008?

And let's not forget the occasions he showed up big for England, Away to Scotland in the playoff in Euro 2000, and his brilliance against Argentina (Veron was chased off the pitch!) in WC 2002. Gerrard/Lampard have never come close to that level for the national side.

@ Super -  Scholes really only had 1 season as the no.10 behind a striker, that was 2002-03 where he really should have won player of the year. Gerrard is/was a superior athlete than Scholes and that was it really.

 

Thanks to the closet manu fan. The answer I was looking for.

Doesn't going back to 1999 tell you something? Did scholes retire in 2007 and barely play in the CL since 1999? Firstly it tells me that it will be more difficult to find info on the games than more recent ones. It also tells me that I remember pirlo against germany in euro 2012, the same for xavi. I reckon a fan easily could find a number of matches in the last year or 2 for both players, but for some strange reason not for scholes.

Let's look at your latest example, Milan 2007 (H), I vaguely remember kaka being the main man in that game which finished 3-2, so I googled it and:
"Kaka giving masterclass": http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/6582631.stm
"The match then turned into the Kaka show": http://bleacherreport.com/articles/114902-unforgettable-games-presents-manchester-united-vs-ac-milan-2006-cl-semifinal

In both reports the only mention of scholes is the pass to assist one of rooney's goals. Unfortunately I cannot find any possession stats from 2007 to tell me if manu even had more possession or not. I suspect that they did since they were at home. Incidentally in the second leg, where again scholes "controlled the tempo" (according to some strange definition that TS is using) milan won 3-0  

For deportivo 2002 it's even more difficult to find info but
http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2001/matches/round=1547/match=1023010/postmatch/report/index.html - Deportivo had 15 attempts on target, hardly consistent with scholes "controlling the tempo"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/champions_league/1905150.stm - scholes only mention is getting a yellow card

I am seriously wondering if you even know what "controlling the tempo" means, apart from "knowing that scholes does it"

Scholes has played for a big team for 20 years, so I would expect him to have more than a few big moments.

As for the 2002-2003 EPL player of the year, scholes didn't even win the matt busby player of the year award (voted by manu fans), RVN won both awards. Before anyone says attacking players, blah, blah, Heinze won the award in 2005  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Matt_Busby_Player_of_the_Year
Scholes has not ever been manu's best player over a season, yet people want us to think he was the best player in the league. He seems to be the player that EPL hipsters/purest/c**ts seem to rate the most.

christmasborocooper wrote:Oof

you were a bit premature with that ejaculation