Terry named England Captain

@ ballack... im not sure whether you can say terry is a better player than king.... but what you can say is that he has outperformed him so consistently SO FAR in his career that it makes these king>terry comments completely pie in the sky.... unfortunatly on here the theory about terry and his GEMPA has already been formed and people are not going to change it....terry was the most scruntinised defender and probably even player on here during the WC... people pick up on the even the smallest mistakes he made and say 'look he made 5 mistakes'... i don't think you make the elite team by playing poorly do you...
I was once in the anti terry camp... but then I saw him live about 5 times last year and realised just how good he is... until T/S, obispo do the same I think they'll all be coming out with more of this GEMPA rubbish

I see a lot of people getting different stages of Arnoud-itis lately. It must be contagious.

Symptoms: fickleness, easily irritated, takes as everything a personal attack, wants to exclude certain people from discussions. Lots of moaning & his club/team/national side can't do no wrong.

thanks COTR. No-one actually realises how much of an imposing force Terry is. And your right in saying that they pick up on such small details. If he makes one error its highlighted but if someone else (Ferdinand) or Campbell does it then its simply brushed aside.
As you said, he was in FIFA's team of the tournemant and thats a hard accomplishment in its self. Terry could get into any club team in the world. And that isnt a joke or based on club bias

Distinguished Dutchman wrote:I see a lot of people getting different stages of Arnoud-itis lately. It must be contagious.

Symptoms: fickleness, easily irritated, takes as everything a personal attack, wants to exclude certain people from discussions. Lots of moaning & his club/team/national side can't do no wrong.

Are you having a go at me?

Outside NOW!!!

Ballack wrote:

110% wrote:

Distinguished Dutchman wrote:

blutgraetsche wrote:I have a rather simple view on captaincy.

Personality wise, which is most important, a captain should be a natural leader, his sheer presence on the pitch should signal confidence, vigor and determination, he should be able to inspire his teammates, especially in difficult situations.

Footballing wise, it makes sense to make the player with the most ball contacts captain IMHO, the player who controls the game, the mastermind. Usually, it's a midfielder.

That's why Gerrard would have made more sense IMHO, but that's just me.

Not just you. Ideally the captain shoudl be a midfielder and preferably one of a holding midfielder, or a playmaker. THose decide the tempo and the plays.

Not only you two. I would also have a midfielder. A defender can read the game from the back, but cannot influence it as much as a midfielder.

Plus Gerrard is England's only world class player, and can play in a variety of positions due to his superior footballing brain. Terry has now become undroppable, and I would have had King before him.

For those who say that a captain doesn't influence the manager's decision of who is picked, what about the players missing from the argentina squad at the world cup?

Terry is ok, but I see nothing changing for England. I am pretty sure that lampard will be playing in the next matches.

Gerrard is as thick as a plank of wood. he has not got a brain. Terry is a better defender than King. Its just all the anti chelsea once more... Seriously find another team to have a go at

So now I am anti-chelsea as well? Are you just anti-liverpool for saying gerrard is thick?

DD is right, everyone is a bit sensitive when it comes to players from their own team.

Sorry but I can prefer a certain player over another player can't I. I think Terry is a great player, and I have never made any comment about his protection agency. Terry reads the game better, but I think king is faster and plays the ball better, and is just as strong, so personally I would prefer king, that's all, nothing agianst chelsea. COTR is also right that so far terry deserves his place, I am just thinking in the future if king develops he won't get into the team because terry's position is guararnteed. I wouldn't put king above terry right now, king needs experience, especially playin in europe etc.

For info I am not anti-manu or anti-chelsea. I even voted for lampard as world class, as I think in the right system he is. Unfortunately for england that means 2 midfielders behind him and a big target man up front like chelsea play, so for england it would be maybe king=makele, hargreaves=essien, and crouch/ashton=drgoba. But this means leaving out the 2 best players in rooney and gerrard so that's why I wouldn't do it.

yes our mods are really excelling themselves at the minute the anti --- man u/chelsea etc comments are pretty tiresome... but it is the easy way out for some WUM's ... just something you have to put up with on here 110%

Come again COTR?

I have to laugh at these claims that I am anti-Chelsea and have a vendetta. Pardon me for giving my opinion on who I think we need to bring in and drop to make the team better. Ballack, get over yourself - I don't care whether Terry plays for Chelsea or not. I'd criticise him if He played for Tottenham. I don't think Michael Dawson should be in the squad foe exactly the same reasons. I'm not a fan of Jamie Carragher for exactly the same reasons. I was never a fan of Steve Bruce or Terry Butcher for exactly the same reasons.

Why should Terrys place in the 1st XI be guaranteed? He's made lots of errors in an England shirt and it's always glossed over. Don't bullshit yourself. There's a natural bias against Rio Ferdinand, people can't wait for him to do something wrong. If your happy to let someone carry on making errors without questioning them, that's your perogative.

King to my knowledge, hasn't had a poor game for England playing Centre Back. His performance vs. France in Euro 2004 is proof he can cut it at the highest level. He's now a much better player than he was back then. It says a lot about how good he is that after Sol Campbell jumped ship to Arsenal, King came in and the team didn't look any worse - especially defensively. He was a standout player in Spurs' mediocre days, and he's still our most important player now, despite all the good players that have come and gone in the last 3 years since we underwent mass change.

King is a (much) better defender than Terry - he's far more flexible too. You can play high line, low line, he's good in the air, great on the floor is mobile and has got pace to match the nippiest strikers. All Terry represents to me is the same old neanderthal obsession with the Old-School English Centre-back, the type of the defender that isn't súited to International football anymore.

P.S COTR, don't be a hypocrite - I remember you once posting before the World Cup "one of the reasons England won't win it is Terry. He is slow and he will be exposed".

Top post TS - pretty much my view on things as well

P.S COTR, don't be a hypocrite - I remember you once posting before the World Cup "one of the reasons England won't win it is Terry. He is slow and he will be exposed".


total and utter lies.... completely made up.... my opinion on terry has been the same since about january so maybe before january is what u mean by before the WC...

how many games has king played at CB to use for comparsion????

the shirt is comfortably terry's at the minute and rightly so... it's hardly as if england have a poor defensive record at the minute is it... you over scrutinise him beyond belief... his place is not guaranteed but as long as he contiunes to excel for chelsea and england (elite team in the world cup) then there is 0 danger of him losing it

Ledley King is a top player I rate him over Terry for certain aspects of the game. Terry seems to beat him on leadership by a pinch....A fit King would be in there for me but I will live with Terry.
As for this Gerrard is the only world class player hype I care little for. Its what you do for your country that counts............Be interesting to see how Lampard and Gerrard play without Beckham who knows they may have more room to work and stop countering themselves out........ McClaren benching Lampard also would send a good message to the squad, Put out or Sit out...........................

Brian2468 wrote:Ledley King is a top player I rate him over Terry for certain aspects of the game. Terry seems to beat him on leadership by a pinch....A fit King would be in there for me but I will live with Terry.
As for this Gerrard is the only world class player hype I care little for. Its what you do for your country that counts............Be interesting to see how Lampard and Gerrard play without Beckham who knows they may have more room to work and stop countering themselves out........ McClaren benching Lampard also would send a good message to the squad, Put out or Sit out...........................

the gerrard as only world class player for england is a bit tongue in cheek, like the superior footballing brain , but it did come from the vote on this message board

I agree with someone said about the theories becoming fact on this board just becasue they are posted a lot: terry and GEMPA is one, and gerrard having no footballing brain is another. Theories that haven't been proven but just because they fit with the dislike of certain players from certain posters they use them constantly.

110% wrote:

Brian2468 wrote:Ledley King is a top player I rate him over Terry for certain aspects of the game. Terry seems to beat him on leadership by a pinch....A fit King would be in there for me but I will live with Terry.
As for this Gerrard is the only world class player hype I care little for. Its what you do for your country that counts............Be interesting to see how Lampard and Gerrard play without Beckham who knows they may have more room to work and stop countering themselves out........ McClaren benching Lampard also would send a good message to the squad, Put out or Sit out...........................

the gerrard as only world class player for england is a bit tongue in cheek, like the superior footballing brain , but it did come from the vote on this message board

I agree with someone said about the theories becoming fact on this board just becasue they are posted a lot: terry and GEMPA is one, and gerrard having no footballing brain is another. Theories that haven't been proven but just because they fit with the dislike of certain players from certain posters they use them constantly.

I understand why gerrard is looked at as world class. By calling it hype I mean even if he is world class he should not be guaranteed a starting place. He needs to step up his game for england and be more consistant.

I remember the post clearly.

TeamSpirit wrote:I remember the post clearly.

ahhh well that's that cleared up then....

U remember it clearly...

anyway not interested in bickering (or lies) so back on topic ...

terry > king

@ TeamSpirit

The thing is, (certainly on here) there are far more anti-Terry fans than anti-Rio fans. During the WC, they most probably made a similar number of errors however, as Terry's were more risky, they are more highlighted, also due to the fact of how many times we saw Rio c*ck up last season too, it has come to be not expected when Rio makes a mistake.

Indeed, if we judge whether a player should still be on the team after the WC, Gerrard should be one of the first names questioned, behind Lampard and Beckham. To my memory, Terry made very few mistakes, but they will always be highlighted as he is, imo, Mr Reliable 98% of the time.

Indeed, it's like what I have said about the people who heavily criticise Didier Drogba. Once you watch a player live, and you get to see some of the things they do off-the ball (and off-camera), you begin to realise, imo, just how exceptional some of them are.

@ S4P

I can't believe you are serious regarding the differences in treatment that Terry & Rio get in the mainstream media. My opinion is that this image of Ferdinand being error-prone is exaggerated.

He (Rio) had a dodgy start to the season - A horrible first half at Fulham, and that debacle at Middlesborough are two games that stand out. The media rection to this? He was burned at the stake and dropped for the game against Austria. His redemption then came as he produced, IMHO, the best induvidual performance of any CB in the EPL last season in the Man Utd. vs Liverpool game at Old Trafford.

To me Terry had just as many bad games last season. His bad run of form came just after the new year - there was errors vs. Sunderland, he was caught out badly in the home game vs. Charlton, and like Rio had an appaling time of it at the Riverside. The media reaction to this. For a good month all I heard was, "Even the normally rock-solid John Terry was a bit out of sorts today."

As for the World Cup, you're in denial regarding the errors. Defensively, Ferdinand was flawless throughout the tounament. Did everything he needed to do, dealt with everything that came his way. If he were to make an error, my God you would've heard about it. If you want to knit-pick, you can say his distribution (especially in the 1st half of the T&T game) was sub-standard.

Terry on the other hand, always looked uncomfortable, just like he did in the qualifiers, and just like he did at Euro 2004. His two positive moments for me were his fantastic goal-line clearance vs. T&T and as the team sunk deep against Portugal, he was instantly more comfortable. Apart from that he made 3 major errors in the WC - The giveaway to Parades vs. Parguay, the missed header vs. Sweden, and that gift to C.Tenorio vs. Ecuador. That's not to mention the mis-kick vs. Jamaica before the tournament.

In conclusion, this assumption that Ferdinand is Error-prone, and Terry is not is total B.S in my view. Ferdinand proved he was by far and away the better player at the WC.

Good post.

Great post TS... Although...

TeamSpirit™ wrote:
His redemption then came as he produced, IMHO, the best induvidual performance of any CB in the EPL last season in the Man Utd. vs Liverpool game at Old Trafford.

It really should be mentioned that Rio almost scored a dreadful own goal in that game - it was just before Cisse skied over from about 4 yards out. Ferdinand's had far better games than that IMHO.

Obispo wrote:

borocooper wrote:What did Terry do when Chelsea were having a bad time against Barca?

didnt he score a goal?

After being in a defence that conceded 2 at the other end, yes. He scored from a set piece. Gerrard scored 2 and set one up in open play in the FA cup final and scored one and got the penalty in istanbul. ... Terry's scored from a set piece and won a penalty that was even more dubious than Gerrard's in istanbul.

Good luck to him, I just don't think he's the best choice.

Eh, werent you saying that Gerrard 'didn't do anything' in the FA cup final, and 'he's a rubbish central midfielder' and 'he could play at right back' and 'he's not worldclass' what a change in the winds says I

I think Gerrard should have been made captain, as it would have improved his game for england, and I think a captain should drive the team forward.

No, I wasn't saying that. I was saying he wasn't the best player on the pitch for a 120 minutes, but he was the most important. There is a distinct difference.

TeamSpirit,

I wasn't talking about the press... I was talking about the posters on here. Everyone goes on about "oh Terry's mistakes go unnoticed, whilst Rio's don't" but then it's all "Terry did this Terry did that, whilst Rio was flawless" (which makes such people just as bad as the media whom you were referring too in this situation imo)

Indeed, I still don't know how Terry is still the only person who seems to be receiving flak for the Sweden goal when both Campbell and Ashley Cole were just as much at fault (and imo, Cole more at fault).

Indeed, although Rio had such a flawless World Cup, and those who say he always performs for England, what about the warm up game v Hungary where he was awful (remember when he tried to nutmeg that hungarian when only 20 yards away from his own goal)

D'you honestly think Terry had just as bad a season as Rio? I really can't remember him making anywhere near as many mistakes as Rio, nor ever looking as uncomfortable as Rio.

Indeed, I personally would rather judge a player's quality over the 50 game season, rather than 5 games at the WC and for me, Terry really outshone Ferdinand.

For what natural talent Rio has over Terry (and don't get me wrong, I know he has more natural talent), Terry massively makes up for in his aerial dominance, and game reading imo.

Crouching Tiger wrote:

Obispo wrote:

borocooper wrote:What did Terry do when Chelsea were having a bad time against Barca?

didnt he score a goal?

After being in a defence that conceded 2 at the other end, yes. He scored from a set piece. Gerrard scored 2 and set one up in open play in the FA cup final and scored one and got the penalty in istanbul. ... Terry's scored from a set piece and won a penalty that was even more dubious than Gerrard's in istanbul.

Good luck to him, I just don't think he's the best choice.

Eh, werent you saying that Gerrard 'didn't do anything' in the FA cup final, and 'he's a rubbish central midfielder' and 'he could play at right back' and 'he's not worldclass' what a change in the winds says I

I think Gerrard should have been made captain, as it would have improved his game for england, and I think a captain should drive the team forward.

but the same could be made about Terry. It will improve his game just as much as it improved Gerrards.

There are a substantial amount of both club and international sides world wide that don't have a midfielder as captain, most either go for defenders, strikers or in some cases goalkeepers.

S4P wrote:

D'you honestly think Terry had just as bad a season as Rio?

When did Rio have a bad season?

Also I'm not sure why Terry having a great season or not is important if he doesn't perform for England.

I'm not to unhappy about him being captain, however for England he falls quite away behind Rio, especially in COMPETITIVE games.

Sir Parks Lives wrote:

S4P wrote:

D'you honestly think Terry had just as bad a season as Rio?

When did Rio have a bad season?

Also I'm not sure why Terry having a great season or not is important if he doesn't perform for England.

I'm not to unhappy about him being captain, however for England he falls quite away behind Rio, especially in COMPETITIVE games.

I never said Rio had a bad season I just said "do you think Terry was just as bad as Rio this season?" which imo, he wasn't.

And I haven't said (or implied) anything about believing Terry had a better WC than Rio, I just think Terry's WC was underrated, likewise with the fact people complain about how Terry gets preferential treatment over Rio with the public, then they just talk about how Rio is much better than Terry (which is fine, it's their opinion, but they then don't need to say things like "the public and the press love Terry and hate Rio etc"

S4P wrote:

Sir Parks Lives wrote:

S4P wrote:

D'you honestly think Terry had just as bad a season as Rio?

When did Rio have a bad season?

Also I'm not sure why Terry having a great season or not is important if he doesn't perform for England.

I'm not to unhappy about him being captain, however for England he falls quite away behind Rio, especially in COMPETITIVE games.

I never said Rio had a bad season I just said "do you think Terry was just as bad as Rio this season?" which imo, he wasn't.

And I haven't said (or implied) anything about believing Terry had a better WC than Rio, I just think Terry's WC was underrated, likewise with the fact people complain about how Terry gets preferential treatment over Rio with the public, then they just talk about how Rio is much better than Terry (which is fine, it's their opinion, but they then don't need to say things like "the public and the press love Terry and hate Rio etc"

Fair enough.

@ Obi - Fair enough, but United were under the cosh for a lot of that game, and he stood tall and firm. From a technical aspect and not a heart & soul one, he was better vs. Arsenal at OT.
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@ S4P

Why do you think that is?

Surely it's because the of the ridiculous notion that he is the World's best defender? If people were realistic about were Terry stands in the order of World football, there wouldn't be such a backlash.

Terry recieved flak for the Sweden goal because he should've dealt with the long throw. Pure and simple. If he clears that away, there's no need for whatever happened between Campbell, Robinson and Cole to take place.

Wasn't the Rio Hungary showboat all over the national press the next day? Even I've expressed my concern about his complacency against lesser teams.

Yes The 2 had the same bad patch of around 5 games - difference was Terry's was glossed over, Rio's wasn't. Rio had an excellent season IMO, cosidering the midfield that was in front of him. If you want to talk about a 50+ game season, Rio in 2002-03 was untouchable, Terry hasn't come close to being as good as Ferdinand was that season.

People talk about Rio being "weak" in the air, but I struggle to find many headed goals that Man United have conceded with him in Central Defence.

If you wanna see Rio at his absolute best get a video of the Man United vs Milan game at Old Trafford 2004/2005.

Absolute class performance.

Sir Parks Lives wrote:If you wanna see Rio at his absolute best get a video of the Man United vs Milan game at Old Trafford 2004/2005.

Absolute class performance.

Is that the one you drew 0-0?

Whats the Rooney/Scholes sitution? they ok to play yet?

man utd have appealed the bans, hope they get banned