The 'big 4' head to head this season

Having concluded 'round 1 of 2' for this season today, we can now look at how the big 4 have done against each other in their matches this season:

Chelsea 1-0 Liverpool
Manchester United 0-1 Arsenal
Manchester United 2-0 Liverpool
Arsenal 3-0 Liverpool
Manchester United 1-1 Chelsea
Chelsea 1-1 Arsenal
Liverpool 2-0 Chelsea
Arsenal 2-1 Manchester United

Pos Team P W D L GF GA GD Pts

1. Arsenal 4 3 1 0 7 2 +5 10/12
2. Chelsea 4 1 2 1 3 4 -1 5/12
3. Man Utd 4 1 1 2 5 4 +1 4/12
4. Liverpool 4 1 0 3 2 6 -4 3/12

Admittedly, we can not really make any comparisons from this, as Liverpool played all 3 games away from home, so are unsurprisingly bottom, whilst United played all 3 matches at home. Chelsea's away match was a trip to Old Trafford, with 2 home fixtures, and Arsenal had trips to Old Trafford and Stamford Bridge, with a home tie against Liverpool, so they are perhaps surprisingly, top of the head-to-head.

But now look at the actual league table:

1. Man Utd 24 18 3 3 53 18 +35 57/72
2. Chelsea 24 15 6 3 41 19 +22 51/72
3. Liverpool 24 14 4 9 37 16 +21 46/72
4. Arsenal 24 13 6 5 45 13 +32 45/72

Although Arsenal can jump to 3rd if they win their game in hand, it's quite surprising you'd think that, given their excellent form v the 'big 4', they are the lowest of the big 4 in the league table.

It comes down to the fact that it's the defeats such as Fulham, Bolton, West Ham etc that have arguably cost them a chance of winning the title this season, as oppose to their form against the other 'big 3'.

Conceding those silly goals in the first 20 minutes against teams that play 10 men behind the ball combined with poor finishing at times has been our main problem this season.

Agooner wrote:Conceding those silly goals in the first 20 minutes against teams that play 10 men behind the ball combined with poor finishing at times has been our main problem this season.

What like you did today you mean ?

Festive Genius wrote:

Agooner wrote:Conceding those silly goals in the first 20 minutes against teams that play 10 men behind the ball combined with poor finishing at times has been our main problem this season.

What like you did today you mean ?

Our 4-5-1 is not a defensive system at all. We showed more ambition today than those teams normally do at the emirates

Agooner wrote:

Festive Genius wrote:

Agooner wrote:Conceding those silly goals in the first 20 minutes against teams that play 10 men behind the ball combined with poor finishing at times has been our main problem this season.

What like you did today you mean ?

Our 4-5-1 is not a defensive system at all. We showed more ambition today than those teams normally do at the emirates

Because Chelsea and Man U don't have teams fear them?

I think what we can agree on is that we have done the best..

The problem is we lost and draw stupid games against shitty teams like Middlesbrough

we dominated you.

These days you're nothing more than a little club who is now into giant killing.

Tinseldum wrote:I think what we can agree on is that we have done the best..

The problem is we lost and draw stupid games against shitty teams like Middlesbrough

Not scoring enough, and conceding soft goals (mostly set pieces).

The former is Wenger's own fault for prefering a 60% Henry upfront, rather than another solution (RVP, Adebayor or other combinations). The latter is also Wenger's fault for not practising defending against set pieces effectively.

Tinseldum wrote:I think what we can agree on is that we have done the best..

In the biggest games so far, yes, you have. You should have seen ol' Tony yesterday. He's the dad of a friend of mine on whose Sky bill I get to watch the live football, and I've become friends with him too. Normally he's a staunch Man U supporter but yesterday it was all 'Come on Arsenal' and 'cheating Chelsea bastards' and the rest...

The problem is we lost and draw stupid games against shitty teams like Middlesbrough

It's a psychological problem - Wenger has never been able to teach his players how to roll with the punches. They always look so pissed off and hurt whenever they lose. When Arsenal raise their game they are as good as anyone, but they don't seem very good at doing this in the smaller matches.

Aye, its going to be a serious downfall for this season at least.

One plus has been Wenger willing to buy some more beafy players but the main two have been injured for most of the season so far.

What makes me especially pleased about yesterdays result was the fact that we played in with our second choice centre back pairing, there aren't many teams (if any) ou there that could go with their second choice centre backs and get a result

We still have the problem of basically only have one plan of action though ,despite the addition of Adebayor - es hes big and yes he can head but the ball still keeps getting played on the floor to him.

@ coop

It was just a dig

You deserved the draw for Woody's performance alone

leagues are never lost against the big teams.

holly hunter wrote:leagues are never lost against the big teams.

Exactly, in fact you could lose every game against them and still win the league.

Its good to have a big game mentality though, esp if you're in the Champs league cos it makes you believe that on your day you can beat anyone

Tinseldum wrote:
We still have the problem of basically only have one plan of action though ,despite the addition of Adebayor - es hes big and yes he can head but the ball still keeps getting played on the floor to him.

I thought that he did very, very well yesterday, the big lad, despite his team mates not playing to his strengths. His running at the Chelsea defenders and general movement and work rate caused them problems, just as it did against Man U earlier this season. If you can find the best way to use him (i.e. by telling Hleb, Van Persie, Rosicky and Fabregas to play it in the air for a change) and get the right blend of supporting players (where was Walcott yesterday?!?!?) then he could be an excellent player for you.

Hmm adebayor is basically what Dorgba was a few years ago - a useful player in the way that he is pretty tall, strong and also has a good touch but cant finish for shit.

Adebayor can learn a lot from Drogba

Arsenal's reason for doing well in this situation is simply youth. Young players will always psyche themselves up for big games, but then doing the same for a Fulham, West Ham, Bolton is another story.

robert wrote:Arsenal's reason for doing well in this situation is simply youth. Young players will always psyche themselves up for big games, but then doing the same for a Fulham, West Ham, Bolton is another story.

Thats a bit simplistic.

How else can Rooney be such a choker in the big games?

Chocking in what games?

Celtic = away is the only one I can think of.

robert wrote:Chocking in what games?

Celtic = away is the only one I can think of.

WC qualifiation, the WC, the CL, the big games V Liverpool and Chelsea...

Tinseldum wrote:

robert wrote:Chocking in what games?

Celtic = away is the only one I can think of.

WC qualifiation, the WC, the CL, the big games V Liverpool and Chelsea...

What big games in the cl? wc qualification games v macedonia and the like are big games? tweedle tweedle tweedle

Rooney only scored a single goal against the the top 5 last season.

Agooner wrote:Rooney only scored a single goal against the the top 5 last season.

he scored 2 v tottenham in one match ffs

Agooner wrote:Rooney only scored a single goal against the the top 5 last season.

Scored 2 against us at WHL - One was a tap in and the other was a mistake by Lee YP, letting Park rob him of the ball.

He's only 21 and he's already scored and set up a goal in 2-0 wins over Arsenal.

L r d wrote:

Agooner wrote:Rooney only scored a single goal against the the top 5 last season.

he scored 2 v tottenham in one match ffs

typo , i meant the top 4

TeamTurtleDoves wrote:

Agooner wrote:Rooney only scored a single goal against the the top 5 last season.

Scored 2 against us at WHL - One was a tap in and the other was a mistake by Lee YP, letting Park rob him of the ball.

It was a bit harder than that, mate.

He's had 2 full years - and he's only hurt Arsenal, Spurs and there was the awful error by Dudek.

Done f' all vs. Chelsea - you know he like to play in Makalele's yard

ParktheHeraldAngelsSing wrote:

TeamTurtleDoves wrote:

Agooner wrote:Rooney only scored a single goal against the the top 5 last season.

Scored 2 against us at WHL - One was a tap in and the other was a mistake by Lee YP, letting Park rob him of the ball.

It was a bit harder than that, mate.

He slid in from 2 yards after Ronaldo put it on a plate.

Aaargh, just remembering that game makes me tear my hair out.

Defoe

I think our performance against the big four this season shows we shouldn't be taken slightly in the CL

Agooner wrote:

L r d wrote:

Agooner wrote:Rooney only scored a single goal against the the top 5 last season.

he scored 2 v tottenham in one match ffs

typo , i meant the top 4

Alright well he cant score against man utd can he. so 3 teams. He scored one and made one v arsenal twice now, 4 goals v arsenal so far in his career. got the winner at anfield not long ago, this season set up the goal saha got v chelsea. He is still 21. Hardly a choker, he has a bad record in wc qualifiers and the cl. But this really has nothing to do with being a choker, and only two games out of all those were big games.

Tinseldum wrote:

robert wrote:Chocking in what games?

Celtic = away is the only one I can think of.

WC qualifiation, the WC, the CL, the big games V Liverpool and Chelsea...

WC Qualification, didn't watch any of the matches so can't comment. Very positive that he contributed a lot despite lack of scoring or even direct assists.

WC - Broken leg, not match fit, everyone knows that, yet you still attempt to use that as an excuse to buffer up your argument.

The CL - Forget the 1st two games, he was off form after the World Cup hangover and so forth. Against Benfica away he was on the left as we played very defensive. Little chance to contribute as he isn't a wide player.

Against Celtic, he fucked up a few easy chances there.
Against Bneifca at home, him moving back into his old position after Nelson's goal changed the game completely. WE easily were more threatening depite him not scoring. Carved out two good chances for Saha who failed to put away.

Against Liverpool, put the pass into Giggs to put into Scholes to score.

Against Chelsea, Direct assist to Saha to score, put them in more trouble in the second half and Saha failed to smack the ball home.

So in summary, these supposed chokes are when he is off form with agaiin Celtic the only match I can accept where he fucked up.

I still stand by my statement, young players aren't going to be consistent, especially against the small fish.