Points leads from across Europe

Because of internationals i thought i would post this, couldn't be bothered to do all the leagues but i tried to pick the major leagues or the leagues with some good players in, not done the Russian league because it has only just started.

1st - 2nd
Inter - Roma = 18 pts
Lyon - Lens = 16 pts
Celtic - Rangers = 13 pts
Olympiakos - AEK = 8 pts
Fenerbahce - Besiktas = 6 pts
Man Utd - Chelsea = 6 pts
PSV - Ajax = 5 pts
Schalke - Bremen = 3 pts
Dinamo Kiev - Shakhtar = 2 pts
Genk - Anderlecht = 1 pts
Porto - Benfica = 1 pts
Barcelona - Sevilla = 0 pts

1st - 4th
Inter - Palermo = 29 pts
Lyon - Lille = 22 pts
Man Utd - Liverpool = 21 pts
Porto - Belenenses = 18 pts
Schalke - Bayern = 9 pts
PSV - Twente = 9 pts
Barcelona - Valencia = 6 pts

Inter ae totally dominant in their league - which either means that:

a) They've just been amazing
b) They've been very good and other teams have been underachieving
c) They've been good, the rest have been poor.

Personally I'd say its (b) and I honestly think that if Juve were there with their squad from last season they'd probably be within 5 points of Inter.

==================================

La Liga obviously is throwing up the most fascinating title race, though i still have a feeling that our one may well beas interesting - Man Utd are a bit short on strikers at present and a couple of drawn games with Chelsea winning could make the tie between the two at Stamford Bridge one incredible game it terms of tension and importance

the EPL one will not quite be as interesting as La Liga in that there are only two teams to look out for, whereas in Spain there are still 4 teams in contention, and even Zaragoza is only 1 point behind Valencia.

it does indicate the irregularity of all the Spanish top teams this season and they can't blame it on the European pressure.

Barcelona, I must say, has had some bad luck in their league and CL programme. They have had to play all their important league and European games at the same time.

Loony toon

Do you think all the teams at the top can sustain their form though? Or liekwise might one or two teams go on a sustained run of formand pull away?

Come the last game of the season I think there may only be two teams in contention for the title - and I think the situation may well be the same in the EPL

hey, why the loony?

I think Barcelona will now run away with La Liga because they have already played Sevilla, Valencia and Real home+away, out of the Champions League and they now have



back and fit.

Tweedy, you just love saying this, don't ya??

I don't think the teams like Roma in Serie A are underperforming any more or less than Barca/Real/Arsenal/etc. Infact Roma are probably having a historic season, and if Inter were not playing so unbelievably consistanty, in a normal season Roma would have been right up there within a few points of the lead.

So, are the teams in Serie A (Fiorentina, Roma, Milan, Lazio, Palermo, etc) even weaker this season than the french teams?? Coz Inter are doing much much better in Serie A than what Lyon are doing in Ligue 1. One top team getting relegated does not make the league that much weaker, specially since many of its squad stayed up in the league.

See the other post I have on the performance of the top teams in Serie A against each other.... Inter have WON all 7 of their games against the above mentioned 5 teams (which included all away games), and have scored over 2.5 goals per game against these teams. I think that puts the season in perspective - Inter's performance has been irrespective of how strong the other team has been in Serie A.

As for Juve of last season, we can only speculate. I think they would have been above Roma, but about 10+points behind Inter this season... just my opinion, coz Inter are setting a new Serie A record this season.

Tweedle wrote:Inter ae totally dominant in their league - which either means that:

a) They've just been amazing
b) They've been very good and other teams have been underachieving
c) They've been good, the rest have been poor.

Personally I'd say its (b) and I honestly think that if Juve were there with their squad from last season they'd probably be within 5 points of Inter.

==================================

La Liga obviously is throwing up the most fascinating title race, though i still have a feeling that our one may well beas interesting - Man Utd are a bit short on strikers at present and a couple of drawn games with Chelsea winning could make the tie between the two at Stamford Bridge one incredible game it terms of tension and importance

toon h wrote:hey, why the loony?

After the nicknames thread yesterday I thought I'd give you a new one

You know what 'looney tunes' are don't you?

Batman wrote:1st - 2nd
Man Utd - Chelsea = 6 pts


1st - 4th
Man Utd - Liverpool = 21 pts

Like MoTD 2 said on Sunday there is League's within Leagues within the Premiership now. Everyone refers to the "top four" implying Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal. But now as we can see there is a League here between the top two sides and the chasing sides playing catch up with Man Utd and Chelsea.

Losing Larsson to Helsingborgs and Saha to injury could have big implications on the next month for Man Utd. However despite this they continue to grind out the results liek last night. I think they have enough to go on and win the title regardless of the result at the Bridge.

Peacock suggested that we will be back near the top soon though.

bluenine wrote:Tweedy, you just love saying this, don't ya??

I don't think the teams like Roma in Serie A are underperforming any more or less than Barca/Real/Arsenal/etc.

Roma aren't underperforming - but last season they were fourth (fifth even were they?) and this season they are 2nd and without having made any real improvements to their squad.

Juve aren't there and Milan look as though their souls have been destroyed by the point deduction.

Infact Roma are probably having a historic season, and if Inter were not playing so unbelievably consistanty, in a normal season Roma would have been right up there within a few points of the lead.

So you're saying that if Inter were not playing as well hen Roma would be within a few points of the lead - well thats just common sense.

So, are the teams in Serie A (Fiorentina, Roma, Milan, Lazio, Palermo, etc) even weaker this season than the french teams?? Coz Inter are doing much much better in Serie A than what Lyon are doing in Ligue 1.

No, because the teams in Serie A are much better than the teams in the French league - I never said this

One top team getting relegated does not make the league that much weaker, specially since many of its squad stayed up in the league.

No, but Serie A had been lagging behind La Liga anyway before that ad the past two seasons the EPL has jumped on leaps and bounds.

Milan have an ageing and weakening squad, so effectively Serie A is missing out on two of the big four this season. Its like the EPL trying to cope and claim to be strong with Utd releagted to the championship and Liverpool sitting mid-table. People would laugh at us for saying that just because Spurs/Bolton/Newcastle were now nearer the top that the league was stronger.

See the other post I have on the performance of the top teams in Serie A against each other.... Inter have WON all 7 of their games against the above mentioned 5 teams (which included all away games), and have scored over 2.5 goals per game against these teams. I think that puts the season in perspective - Inter's performance has been irrespective of how strong the other team has been in Serie A.

Well you can't be sure, it coyuld just mean that all the other teams are chokers

the probability of several teams vying for the Liga title is just much bigger than anywhere else.

of course maybe some team may now start picking up more points now, but so can the others. This is what makes the league interesting.

On the other hand, it seems that the league hasn't even properly started yet. It'll be over before it ever really began.

Tweedle wrote:Inter ae totally dominant in their league - which either means that:
a) They've just been amazing
b) They've been very good and other teams have been underachieving
c) They've been good, the rest have been poor.

d) They have a team without any Italian players.

conclusion:

Spain, the Netherlands and Germany have exciting leagues with a lot of tense games!

1st - 2nd
Porto - Benfica = 1 pts

And some so-called knowledgeable people would tell you Benfica have nothing to play for domestically.

Tweedle wrote: Roma aren't underperforming - but last season they were fourth (fifth even were they?) and this season they are 2nd and without having made any real improvements to their squad.

You are kidding me, right?? Pizzaro, Tonetto, Vucinic, Wilhelmsson, Tavano, Faty, etc are all quality additions to an already quality squad. Last season it was apparant to most of us that Roma have one of the best starting XIs around, if not the best. They just didn't have enough quality back-ups, and huge amounts of injuries ruined their season. And the biggest change is that now the best coach in Italy is in his second season with the club, and his work is showing more and more.

So you're saying that if Inter were not playing as well hen Roma would be within a few points of the lead - well thats just common sense. .

No. I am saying that Inter are having a historic season - do you realise how good a 17 game winning run is?? However good Roma are this season, or any team for that matter, you just cannot compete with that kinda consistancy. In a normal season, when the top team has a few off days in a year, Roma would have been in with a chance. Inter have not had a off day in Serie A yet. THAT is what is remarkable about this season.

Infact, if Roma were in La Liga (where all top teams have been unusually inconsistant this season), they would be among the top 4 or so, and within 2-4 points of the leader.

No, because the teams in Serie A are much better than the teams in the French league - I never said this.

Does that not put the 17 game winning run, and a record of 24 wins and 4 draws in 28 games, in perspective?

Milan have an ageing and weakening squad, so effectively Serie A is missing out on two of the big four this season. Its like the EPL trying to cope and claim to be strong with Utd releagted to the championship and Liverpool sitting mid-table. People would laugh at us for saying that just because Spurs/Bolton/Newcastle were now nearer the top that the league was stronger.

Serie A still has 2 teams in CL quarters - its not as weak as you may think. And in Italy, there was never a concept of the big 4.... if anything, there were the 7 sisters, though the last 5-6 years there have usually been a sister or two less competing for the title.

Well you can't be sure, it coyuld just mean that all the other teams are chokers

All other teams are chokers?? Don't say that to a Lazio or a Roma fan this season!

I am sure the Matrix is not amused

Johninho wrote:

Tweedle wrote:Inter ae totally dominant in their league - which either means that:
a) They've just been amazing
b) They've been very good and other teams have been underachieving
c) They've been good, the rest have been poor.

d) They have a team without any Italian players.

You are kidding me, right?? Pizzaro, Tonetto, Vucinic, Wilhelmsson, Tavano, Faty, etc are all quality additions to an already quality squad. Last season it was apparant to most of us that Roma have one of the best starting XIs around, if not the best. They just didn't have enough quality back-ups, and huge amounts of injuries ruined their season. And the biggest change is that now the best coach in Italy is in his second season with the club, and his work is showing more and more.

Ok, the back up players have been an improvement. I was looking more at the first team though.

Roma are one of the top four clubs anyhow - what about teams like Palermo who are sitting just behind. Are they comparable to Sevilla, Barca, Arsenal etc..? No.

So in effect there are two decent teams, then Milan who had their points deduction.

No. I am saying that Inter are having a historic season - do you realise how good a 17 game winning run is?? However good Roma are this season, or any team for that matter, you just cannot compete with that kinda consistancy. In a normal season, when the top team has a few off days in a year, Roma would have been in with a chance. Inter have not had a off day in Serie A yet. THAT is what is remarkable about this season.

You've had a good season but you've only really had one really top class opposition to play against.

Milan have looked very shaky all season and Palermo and Lazio despite having some very decent players don't have the strength in depth.

Regarding the other clubs in Serie A - well they aren't exactly amazing - Fiorentina and Sampdoria but what of teams like Reggina and Siena? Bianchi has got 15 goals depsite being a relatively limited player

Infact, if Roma were in La Liga (where all top teams have been unusually inconsistant this season), they would be among the top 4 or so, and within 2-4 points of the leader.

Possibly, though they could likeise be sixth below Zaragoza. After all they are inconsitent against lower down opposition and the strength in depth in la liga is far stronger IMO than in Serie A

Does that not put the 17 game winning run, and a record of 24 wins and 4 draws in 28 games, in perspective?

Not really - Sure Serie A is stronger than ligue 1 but as I have stated many times before Inter would have stuggled NOT to have won the scudetto this season especially with the personnel at your disposal

Serie A still has 2 teams in CL quarters - its not as weak as you may think. And in Italy, there was never a concept of the big 4.... if anything, there were the 7 sisters, though the last 5-6 years there have usually been a sister or two less competing for the title.

True, though Milan faced a very average Celtic side.

Roma go through down to their own merits but Lyon were creating tonnes and tonnes of chances and on another day you they easily have knocked Roma out.

Tweedle wrote:Inter ae totally dominant in their league - which either means that:

a) They've just been amazing
b) They've been very good and other teams have been underachieving
c) They've been good, the rest have been poor.

d) By rigging the "cheating investigation" they have managed to gain a monopoly in bribing officials and the Italian FA

bluenine wrote:

Infact, if Roma were in La Liga (where all top teams have been unusually inconsistant this season), they would be among the top 4 or so, and within 2-4 points of the leader.

how you can present this as "fact" is beyond me.

bluenine wrote:

I am sure the Matrix is not amused

Johninho wrote:

Tweedle wrote:Inter ae totally dominant in their league - which either means that:
a) They've just been amazing
b) They've been very good and other teams have been underachieving
c) They've been good, the rest have been poor.

d) They have a team without any Italian players.

No, but in his wind up he does (unknowingly?) make a subtle point. The other teams have more italians in them and more homegrown players. Those take longer to invest in (time, energy, money, development), even though are generally cheaper.
It also does imply that Inter has bought more finished articles for immediate succes.
Which they have done (no, they're not the only ones; Milan etc) and it shows. Bigger clubs want finished articles.

Serie A
League Record 2006-2007, after 28 games
Inter = 76 pts
Roma = 58 pts
Lazio* = 49 pts
Palermo = 47 pts
Milan* = 43 pts
Fiorentina* = 37 pts

League Record 2005-2006, after 29 games
Milan = 66 pts
Inter = 62 pts
Fiorentina = 56 pts
Roma = 55 pts
Lazio = 39 pts
Palermo = 39 pts

* Milan deducted 8 points
* Lazio deducted 3 points
* Fiorentina deducted 15 points

My bad, I meant IMO.

toon h wrote:

bluenine wrote:

Infact, if Roma were in La Liga (where all top teams have been unusually inconsistant this season), they would be among the top 4 or so, and within 2-4 points of the leader.

how you can present this as "fact" is beyond me.

Tweedle wrote:Ok, the back up players have been an improvement. I was looking more at the first team though.

Pizzaro and Tonetto are first team. Infact Tonetto has even made the Italian squad.

Milan have looked very shaky all season and Palermo and Lazio despite having some very decent players don't have the strength in depth.

Regarding the other clubs in Serie A - well they aren't exactly amazing - Fiorentina and Sampdoria but what of teams like Reggina and Siena? Bianchi has got 15 goals depsite being a relatively limited player

Fiorentina have a better squad than Milan IMO, and they have been better than Milan during teh season (in points). They are not weak, and they have very good strength in depth! So do Lazio. Palermo I agree, a great first team but a poor squad, and it got shown when Amauri got injured.

Anyways, we can keep argueing about this... does not matter. What does matter is that Inter may win this league with 6-7 games to spare, and that will be goopd enough for moi

DD wrote:
No, but in his wind up he does (unknowingly?) make a subtle point. The other teams have more italians in them and more homegrown players. Those take longer to invest in (time, energy, money, development), even though are generally cheaper.
It also does imply that Inter has bought more finished articles for immediate succes.
Which they have done (no, they're not the only ones; Milan etc) and it shows. Bigger clubs want finished articles.

You have to give Inter credit for turning a *legendary* unfinished product (most of us had serious doubts if he'd *ever* be a finished product) into the real thing.

I'm of course talking about Zlatan here

Blue

Saying Fiorentina are better than Milan is like saying that Spurs are better than Arsenal last season - form is temporary class in permanent

Yes, I knew they were both first team, especially Tonetto who even in his days at Lecce (?) was a class player - Nicky Shorey in disguise

I know its very subjective and could be argued both ways, but I guess what is beyond doubt is that this Fiorentina is class too. Next season, they will be as much a title contender as Roma, Milan, Lazio or Juve.... and I'll be really surprised if they don't make CL... they were deducted 15 points, and still have an outside chance to making CL this season!

(I of course put Inter a step ahead )

Tweedle wrote:Blue

Saying Fiorentina are better than Milan is like saying that Spurs are better than Arsenal last season - form is temporary class in permanent

Yes, I knew they were both first team, especially Tonetto who even in his days at Lecce (?) was a class player - Nicky Shorey in disguise