Benitez wants Spanish system

Rafa Benitez has again criticised the English method of developing young talent, claiming the reserve league system must undergo serious change.
The Liverpool boss believes young players require competitive matches to flourish, and wants the English FA to allow top clubs to be allowed to field reserve teams in the lower divisions.
"It is clear that the reserve system doesn't work," he said. "The reserve league is nothing.
"You can see youngsters playing just 18 games a season. That is nothing - certainly not enough for the development of these players.
"It is something that we can improve in this country, or if we do not change, we will find other solutions: sending youngsters out on loan, like I have done recently.
"I do not want to see reserve teams with four or five senior men playing without passion. These games are for young players."
He also does not feel it is of particular benefit to the players to be part of the first-team squad unless they can play first-team football.
"Between 18 and 21 years old in this country, the players do not know what to do. If they are good enough at 18, they are with the first team but on the bench all the time."
While learning his trade, Benitez worked as manager of Real Madrid's reserve team, Castilla, in the Spanish Segunda Division.
"I had players who were 18-19 years old playing in the Spanish second division championship.
"They were playing against men. They were winning and we finished sixth and fourth. The question is: what improves the quality of the players?
"You cannot play in a reserve league with players who are 34 years old and coming back from injury. They don't work hard.
"I would like to see reserve teams of the big clubs like ourselves playing in the Football League. Why not if they have enough quality?
"The key is that the young players may have quality, but not the experience for the first team. They are only on the bench. That will bridge the gap between the youngsters and the first team.
"If you do not give young players the chance to play competitive football and to learn things, things become impossible."
He added: "I am not too sure about them playing in League Two, either. They need really to be playing against good players, then they will learn more."

Ahh fuck, we'll have Howard Wilkinson coming out again after this.

it's not just Benitez Bilal, Mourinho wants the same aswell. I'm sure Wenger and Fergie would agree. Better than sending youngsters out on loan to Antwerp or playing them just 5-6 games a season in the Carling Cup.

Well then there is the problem that Chelseas 2(even Utd , Liverpool and Arsenal) would be strong enough to get promotion in the premier league , what then?

Bilal wrote:Well then there is the problem that Chelseas 2(even Utd , Liverpool and Arsenal) would be strong enough to get promotion in the premier league , what then?

They just don't get promoted. Isn't that what happens in Spain?

ok but you cant put the reserves team in like the championship or league 1 , can you ?

Bilal wrote:ok but you cant put the reserves team in like the championship or league 1 , can you ?

Nah. Too many fans of tiny, insignificant clubs would complain

Every country has a different reality.

In Portugal the B teams were a flop, and all now are ended, I believe, except for Porto (a question of time...).

I think the main problem will be the cultural clash. If I was English, I would appreciate one of the most fantastic things about footy - people supporting their town team, stadiums crowded until the lowest divisions. I think anything that harms that, harms the biggest equity of English football - the fan's love of the game.

besides, we know what will happen with those B teams...

this is the big 4 wanting those teams in 1st division, crowded with young... foreign players that they will hire at age 16. Also not good for the development of English players.

IMO it would be far too difficult to sort out and would realy hit some of this country's smaller clubs.

Countries like Spain just don't have as many reasonable sized clubs as England - the idea would be equally insane in Italy, which has about as many reasonably sized clubs as the UK.

By reasonable sized clubs I mean clubs with decent stadiums and youth academies

The man talks sense, how can we expect our youngsters to develop of they are playing a mere 18 games a season (that's if they start), sure they can be shipped off abraod but that won't help them to adapt to the English game will it

Bad idea, why shoul any club have two teams in the football league, its just more elitism from the top clubs. Not every supports big clubs.

Rez wrote:Bad idea, why shoul any club have two teams in the football league, its just more elitism from the top clubs. Not every supports big clubs.

Must be horrible for those people

Luis wrote:The man talks sense, how can we expect our youngsters to develop of they are playing a mere 18 games a season (that's if they start), sure they can be shipped off abraod but that won't help them to adapt to the English game will it

I agree, but then you have to do what Wenger has done and loan them to championship sides - Bedthner, Muamba, Larrson(sold):B'ham City
Lupoli(sold), Gilbert:Derby(I think)
Stokes (sold):Somewhere in Scotland.

It has its beneifits, but also raises some questions:

>Is the introduction of such ruling solely to keep the rich, youth poaching clubs happy? (now that they've invested in nabbing away potential youngsters now they're stuck with not being able to play them all, or develop them properly).
>How does it reflect on a culture of poaching youth players?
(is it not just a case of teams flexing financial power, but getting more on their plate than they can handle)
>How does it fit in with teams now poaching youth exclusively so other teams won't? (Prevention swoop)

>Are you just applying this, to keep the strong strong and the weak weaker?

It certainly isn't (yet) because teams development schools have unearthed too many talents. Apart from Middlesbrough, Southhampton and West Ham, what other clubs have development stable like they do?

Let me explain German system for B teams
Regionaliga is where they are allowed to play which is the 3rd division (after 2008 it will be 4th after another 3rd Bundesliga will be added)
These are called amatuaer teams but in reality are part of the big clubs , currently the regionaliga is divided into 2 divisions north and south (after 2008 it will be 3 )

Promotion
The B teams are not allowed to be promoted so the champions etc are usually not allowed to qualify meaning 3rd 4th teams sometimes qualify.

Relegation
These can be relegated in to the 4th tier (which will be 5th ) called the oberliga
B teams are also relegated if A team is relegated into the regionaliga

From 2008 after the formation of 3rd Bundesliga only 4 amatuaer teams will be allowed into it (qualifying from the regionaliga).

These teams have no crowds and often A team player are found playing in their matches to save them from relegation.
Also they lack motivation at times because they know they arent going to be promoted and yeah they are allowed in DFB Pokal.

Luis wrote:The man talks sense, how can we expect our youngsters to develop of they are playing a mere 18 games a season (that's if they start), sure they can be shipped off abraod but that won't help them to adapt to the English game will it

for that, you can loan those players to the other leagues. And 18 games a season is A LOT for a young player. Have no doubt of that. Sometimes is better for a player (Sporting finding) to have 10-12 games a year, at a high level, with team mates in train and in the pitch on those games that can help him to develop, than 34 games of really low competition of much more physical game. Other times, they need both realities, so what we do is we loan our players that need to get stick for one year to a lower division; and then get one year playing 10-12 games in first team.

I also thought like that 5-7 years ago, and finally we had B teams in Portugal! Then, the best talents never played for B teams. The average talents, they gain nothing being in B teams. And meanwhile we were screwing even more the regional clubs, as we didn't have enough problems of a country where 95% of the fans are of the big 3... And we own zero players to the B-team we had for for years. Zero players... Quaresma, Ronaldo, Viana, Moutinho, ............................ none. Either they were too good to be wasted and downgrade their football in 3rd division, or they needed specific experience with a specific team and specific division (some more physicall, others more technical...).

perhaps I wasn't very clear summing up our B team experience.

Every single player needs a different path for his developing. Having a B team means you are giving the same medicine to all the players, and not having in attention individual analsisys and individual action plan.

Some other interesting considerations:

this year greatest new value in Sporting, our new pearl, is Miguel Veloso. Miguel Veloso was loaned last year to a 2nd division team and... only played regularly in the second half of the season.

He was getting no minutes during the first half, and it was part of a plan to develop him. It wasn't about to give him minutes. It was about giving him the right minutes. The first half of the season was mainly training with older and worst players, but that teached him lessons during trainings.

Still, the interest of the big teams shouldn't be higher of English football as a whole.

You have to consider the impact on the cultural love of the game and lower divisions; you have to consider the development of English teams (yes, because this is a way of insteading buying 15 young foreign players, the big 4 will buy 30 foreign players and hope some will succeed).

doninha wrote:Still, the interest of the big teams shouldn't be higher of English football as a all.

You have to consider the impact on the cultural love of the game and lower divisions; you have to consider the development of English teams (yes, because this is a way of insteading buying 15 young foreign players, the big 4 will buy 30 foreign players and hope some will succeed).

Its the short term success they want.

I agree with Doninha , specially considering the no of clubs registered with FA as compared to other leagues.

Rai Krol wrote:

doninha wrote:Still, the interest of the big teams shouldn't be higher of English football as a all.

You have to consider the impact on the cultural love of the game and lower divisions; you have to consider the development of English teams (yes, because this is a way of insteading buying 15 young foreign players, the big 4 will buy 30 foreign players and hope some will succeed).

Its the short term success they want.

yep...

and having a pool of kids they won't give much care, because they will have 30, knowing at least 4-5 will succeed and that competition will not having them, also preparing for eventual rule of UEFA about home grown players.

doninha wrote:

Rai Krol wrote:

doninha wrote:Still, the interest of the big teams shouldn't be higher of English football as a all.

You have to consider the impact on the cultural love of the game and lower divisions; you have to consider the development of English teams (yes, because this is a way of insteading buying 15 young foreign players, the big 4 will buy 30 foreign players and hope some will succeed).

Its the short term success they want.

yep...

and having a pool of kids they won't give much care, because they will have 30, knowing at least 4-5 will succeed and that competition will not having them, also preparing for eventual rule of UEFA about home grown players.

This will be interesting .. what is the UEFA criteria, do you know?

Tweedle wrote:IMO it would be far too difficult to sort out and would realy hit some of this country's smaller clubs.

Countries like Spain just don't have as many reasonable sized clubs as England - the idea would be equally insane in Italy, which has about as many reasonably sized clubs as the UK.

By reasonable sized clubs I mean clubs with decent stadiums and youth academies

All the Primera sides and many of the Segunda sides field B teams.. Nothing to do with "reasonably" sized clubs, but with developing your own talent rather than stealing or buying it abroad..

English clubs just don't invest in youth teams (apart from a few exceptions) so why would you care if they play matches??

Why our reserve league remains regional I'll never know.

We need nationalised reserve league football tier system before we even think about B teams. I literally cannot see the point of promoting reserve teams dependant on the performance of the full team, it current ensures the poor continue to get poorer.

Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:

Tweedle wrote:IMO it would be far too difficult to sort out and would realy hit some of this country's smaller clubs.

Countries like Spain just don't have as many reasonable sized clubs as England - the idea would be equally insane in Italy, which has about as many reasonably sized clubs as the UK.

By reasonable sized clubs I mean clubs with decent stadiums and youth academies

All the Primera sides and many of the Segunda sides field B teams.. Nothing to do with "reasonably" sized clubs, but with developing your own talent rather than stealing or buying it abroad..

English clubs just don't invest in youth teams (apart from a few exceptions) so why would you care if they play matches??

You've clearly missed the point I was trying to make there.

Benítez is doing his job: defending Liverpool's interests, and his own.

About the English football... lets see, what are the greatest talent producers in Europe?

France, The Netherlands, Portugal, Italy (their pipeline is always crowded).

What is the system to produce their own talents there? Probably all different, but its not about B teams (which can be valid in some environments, but don't force or you break it), or getting young 19-22 years players 40 III division games.

Whilst making the comparsion with spain..

Bear in mind there are no reserve team matches in spain, and hence why there are Real Madrid Castilla etc etc

the reserve league in England just lacks competition especially in the north where united just win it all the time, prehaps that what Rafa is getting at

there is no solution IMO those who are good enough are good enough those who arn't or need to develop will be loaned out

the only other thing i can see is if they situated these B teams in places that are mad about football but don't have a local football team for instance in my town Guildford which should really be a city in its own right has not had a football team for 40 years

Would be ridiculous....the reserves of a premiership side will not be better than a Championship side anyway...If this happens it would be an absolute joke!

I agree with Barry Fry's comments completely.