In Europe, one can't get any...

...football


Nothing changed after the display by the Portugal of Ronaldo, Quaresma or Moutinho. Not even after the 4-0 of Barça against Recreativo or the 3-3 against Real Madird at the Camp Nou can raise the mark for a very poor european season. Only one word can describe the lack of great players, and of great teams on the old continent fields after the Germany WC : depression.

If we track back what can we find? very little. Barcelona, definitely the best of the 2005/2006 season has already been knocked out of the CL(Champions League, do not misread as Copa Libertadores even though the latter is the better tournament). The catalonian team paid a lot for the injuries of both Eto'o and Messi. It suffered the worst Ronaldinho, more star and less footballer than ever. Capable of scoring an amazing overhead goal against Villareal for a 4-0, dream come true to any tv commercial director, he has been absent from every important match Barcelona had to face this year.

While Barça wants to find its own identity from the two past years, Real Madrid has renounced to having one. Does anyone know what is this team, filled with euros in its package but empty of any substance, from Cappello is trying to play? if it wasn't for the mediocre performance of most of the big teams it would have been declared a failure months ago. Or even last week. Evidently Robinho had other plans.

In Italy, Inter is going to win a Serie A tournament that's been strucked by the calcioppoli effects. With the team from Milan leading and away from Roma by -who knows how many points? 18, 20, a million- the only the uncertainty we have is when will Inter become champions again. Nevertheless inter already said goodbye to Europe, after two boring draws and an unforgettable fight between both teams. Crowning a pretty violent season. Only in 2007 we had the death of a police officer in Catania, the incident on the Chelsea-Arsenal Carling Cup, the events in Mestalla, already mentioned, and Juan de Ramos, Luis Fernandez and the magic bottle to surprise us all...not very different from across the ocean isn't it?

What are the +? only a few

Old Man Utd from Sir Alex Ferguson has resurrected, dominating the Premier and still with chances for the CL. With pretty much the same team from previous seasons, the scott is squeezing all the juice from Ronaldo before letting him fly away to less rough football, and weather. Ronaldo's improvement was quite the opposite to what happened to Ronaldinho. The lusitan stopped playing for the cameras and now he's doing it for the team.

who's the best player in the world this season? ...............the cricket's sound fill the room

Drogba?Eto'o?Ronaldo?...the golden ball 2006? misses the formation that guarantees him protection and exhausted forwards. The same can be said from Thuram

What's the best team in the world?................philharmonic of cricket's fill the board. Not many bright teams.

Roma is an interesting bet that can be rescued. With Totti as the main attacking player and a whole band of players going forward, where Mancini(who started as a fullback and now he's just everywhere) sets alight the scenery with art pieces like his goal against Lyon a few weeks ago.

But sadly except this few exceptions, and although the money spent keeps increasing, there's been a shortage in football in Europe. A shortage that, despite being forced to sell most players, southamerican football hasn't shown this year.

Time for you ppl to face reality, southamerican football has, is and will always be ahead of yours

South American football in the Off Topic. Very apt.

Yup, so long as European kids can play football on their playstations and not out in their backyards, South American football will always be a step ahead

as was proven at last year's world cup, or not?

you mean the world club cup?

toon h wrote:as was proven at last year's world cup, or not?

no arguement that that south american football is more entertaining then european football is. currently football in europe is very defensive and boring and not like it used to be. when on form i consider european football much better then south american but that is just not happenin right now and im not sure how long will go before we see more attacking football again.
anyway todo both years that south america has won the world club cup has been by being defensive and boring so im not sure there is much pride in it.

right, but you gotta take into account that some of the best clubs in Europe, like Barça, are half-south american.

when a SA club like Inter, full of young, inexperienced, home grown players, has to face an European club that has hired our best (Messi, Saviola, Dinho, Edimílson, Deco), what can they do?

if you get back in time to the 80s, when Zico, leading Flamengo, trashed Liverpool 3-0, or even to the early 90s, when a great São Paulo, coached by Telê Santana, beat Milan and Barcelona one after the other playing attacking football, you'll see that we are doing the best we can after Europe began to "snatch" our players in the mid-90s.

anyway, Europe has dominated the WC fair and square. congrats. but Europe still haven't won an away WC.

supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:anyway todo both years that south america has won the world club cup has been by being defensive and boring so im not sure there is much pride in it.

Good post, but Ronaldo isnt going anywere. United are currently in the best position of any team in Europe. The fans love him, he is playing with a smile, why would he go to Spain to have handkachefs waved at him

Rez wrote:Good post, but Ronaldo isnt going anywere. United are currently in the best position of any team in Europe. The fans love him, he is playing with a smile, why would he go to Spain to have handkachefs waved at him

The handkerchiefs would only be waved if his form was poor, similar to English fans shouting at him "you're not fit to wear the shirt", etc. No difference there.


And Barrilete, good post. Not enough people realise how much of a negative impact the World Cup had on the big players and big teams, and especially Barcelona, Arsenal, etc. who went all the way to the CL final in an already compressed season last year. Italy has suffered mainly due to the scandal though.

todo wrote:right, but you gotta take into account that some of the best clubs in Europe, like Barça, are half-south american.

when a SA club like Inter, full of young, inexperienced, home grown players, has to face an European club that has hired our best (Messi, Saviola, Dinho, Edimílson, Deco), what can they do?

if you get back in time to the 80s, when Zico, leading Flamengo, trashed Liverpool 3-0, or even to the early 90s, when a great São Paulo, coached by Telê Santana, beat Milan and Barcelona one after the other playing attacking football, you'll see that we are doing the best we can after Europe began to "snatch" our players in the mid-90s.

anyway, Europe has dominated the WC fair and square. congrats. but Europe still haven't won an away WC.

supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:anyway todo both years that south america has won the world club cup has been by being defensive and boring so im not sure there is much pride in it.

You realise that European clubs don't take the world club cup seriously, and never have done? It only means anything to South American clubs, because they feel like they have something to prove.

I do like SA footie, Argentina were my team of the WC (well done to them for throwing it away so spectacularly).

SteveOoO wrote:You realise that European clubs don't take the world club cup seriously, and never have done? It only means anything to South American clubs, because they feel like they have something to prove.

I do like SA footie, Argentina were my team of the WC (well done to them for throwing it away so spectacularly).

The sad thing is this year we really wanted to win it. Of course Inter were much more motivated than us, but we were equally up for it and played a full strength team too. But the players just couldn't get it done.

supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:no arguement that that south american football is more entertaining then european football is.

Only because European defences have massively imporved over recent years.

The quality of attackers is slightly better than in South America yet there are less goals. why? Because there's a huge gap in defensive quality in the two continents

right. like England, that didn't play the first WCs because it would be "too easy". and then they decided to play and lost their first match to the USA.

man, if you despise an easy cup that is a walk in the park for you, that's ok. but despising a cup that you cannot dominate is ridiculous.

SteveOoO wrote:You realise that European clubs don't take the world club cup seriously, and never have done? It only means anything to South American clubs, because they feel like they have something to prove.

tweeds, there is no basis for such a statement. can you tell me how you've reached such a conclusion?

have you been watching SA club football or are you basing your statement on bias?

how do you know it's a question of quality and not football style?

São Paulo, Santos, Boca and others have better defences than many of the European big guns today.


European and SA clubs play against each other only at the world club cup, and if you take a look at those games, SA defenses worked pretty well agains the best from europe. ah, but that's a crap cup you don't take into account...

alright. take your preconceived ideas into account then...

Tweedle wrote:

supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:no arguement that that south american football is more entertaining then european football is.

Only because European defences have massively imporved over recent years.

The quality of attackers is slightly better than in South America yet there are less goals. why? Because there's a huge gap in defensive quality in the two continents

The German clubs do take the world club cup seriously. Bayern have won the European cup 4 times, but only played twice in the world club cup (no world club cup matches for them in 1974 and 1975), winning both times. Dortmund won the CL once in 1997, and won the world club cup also. HSV lost their match against Gremio Porto Alegre 2:1 after winning the European cup in 1983, but they did take the match seriously AFAIK.

As far as the initial posting goes, there is life beyond the so called "big three leagues" (nothing but a marketing term really). You have exciting talent in Portugal like Quaresma or Nani, you have promising youngsters like Nasri and Ribery in France, you have Huntelaar and Sneijder in Holland, Gomez and Schlaudraff in Germany etc. pp., in addition to all the South American talent (Diego in Germany, for example) setting the world alight. European club football is not just Spain, England and Italy. Watch closer, and you will see quite a lot of excitement, not just from South American players.

And as far as international football is concerned, I actually believe that Europe has a very good chance to finally win their first World Cup away in 2010. Same time zone, relatively mild climate in that time of the year, and most importantly, a huge influx of talent coming through in quite a few European countries. Bring it on South America I say!

@blut

I remember Dortmond trashing Cruzeiro...

I just can't take that shit of saying "we lose to you but we don't give a damn cause you're crap". if we're crap, beat us, it's that simple. and SA do not dominate the World Club Cup. I think we're 2 or 3 wins ahead, but it's pretty even.


regarding the World Cup, of course Europe can win in Africa. the big guns of international football today are, IMO, Argentina, Brazil, Italy, Germany, and Portugal. France is out because, as I have already pointed out, France without Zidane = England. so today you'd have 3 chances out of 5 of winning it.

regarding the "mild climate", I don't know why you europeans think this is a reason for you to lose, since the coldest WCs ever were the ones held in South America, and you didn't do very well here...

Well, it's easier for us in a mild climate obviously, but this should not be seen as an excuse. We Germans didn't complain about that HELL in Mexico 1970 or 1986, did we?

This is the first WC in Africa, and I have a good feeling about it. I hope that the African teams do well also, some great talented teams on the continent. Maybe we can finally see an African team in the semis at least.

Alex Ferguson made an interesting point at the 2002 world cup...early in the tournament, he picked Brazil to win it. He arrived at that by first instantly eliminating all European teams, and with Argentina not in great form, Brazil was the only choice. His explanation was that European teams never win it outside of Europe because of the grass, or the way it's cut, to be more specific. He said it upsets their passing and movement because the ball rolls differently.

To this day, I still haven't understood that point and why or how the cutting of the grass (what is this different cutting method anyway?) would affect the ball's movement. But for some reason I think he is right in some way.

We can play the next WC on concrete for all I care, no excuses, bring it on South America!

todo wrote:tweeds, there is no basis for such a statement. can you tell me how you've reached such a conclusion?

have you been watching SA club football or are you basing your statement on bias?

how do you know it's a question of quality and not football style?

São Paulo, Santos, Boca and others have better defences than many of the European big guns today.


European and SA clubs play against each other only at the world club cup, and if you take a look at those games, SA defenses worked pretty well agains the best from europe. ah, but that's a crap cup you don't take into account...

alright. take your preconceived ideas into account then...

Tweedle wrote:

supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:no arguement that that south american football is more entertaining then european football is.

Only because European defences have massively imporved over recent years.

The quality of attackers is slightly better than in South America yet there are less goals. why? Because there's a huge gap in defensive quality in the two continents

some South american defences are very good no doubt, but I don't know where the view that European football isn't entertaining comes from.

I'd say that the Champions League hasn't been entertaining but there's been some absolutely fascinating games so far this season in the UEFA cup and in the premiership there have also been some very interesting league games, likewise in Serie A where the goals have been flying in in some games

Tweedle, I'd say the CL has been very entertaining. Look at games like Barca - Liverpool, Lyon - Roma, Milan - Celtic, Bayern - Real, Steaua - Dynamo Kiev and many more. Plus, wait for the QF and SF. There will have a great show. I can't way for games like Milan - Bayern or Man United - Roma. In the UEFA Cup Shaktior - Seville has been the best game so far.

I'd say that some of the group games have been, but the last 16 hasn't lived up to the expectation for me - having said that though - it was 16 games, and we still have three more rounds to come and I'm pretty excited about some of the quart final games.

Still think that the UEFA cup has been slightly better though in terms of entertainment though i'm probably viewing it from an English perspective and the games from Tottenham and Newcastle in the last round were both fantastic

Shatkar V Sevilla was a great game too though I've only seen the highlights of it on youtube. Did you get to see any of the first half between Newcastle V AZ? Ended 3-1 at half time and was one of the most entertaining halves of football I've seen for a long time

I got to see most of the games in the UEFA Cup (for me it's much better competition then the CL because the teams are more evenly mach) but I missed that one. I saw AZ – Newvcastle. Not a great game for the Toons. Tottenham though are doing a fantastic job. Great attack but a poor defense. I’m really looking forward to see Seville – Spurs. What a great game that will be. In the CL last 16 half on the game where good and the other half not so good (Valencia – Inter was probably the worst). Still these are the best teams in the world and it’s normal to cancel each other out.

I take todo's original point though that the European comeptitions have generally regressed in terms of excitement - I remeber about 5/10 years ago watching some fantastic Champions leagues games, even in the latter stages of the competition - we just don't seem to get these types of games much anymore

Too much money involved this days. Plus I remember when the CL had 2 group stages. What a bad decision that was. Anyway if Platini will reduce the number of teams from one country things might change. And more, until this year all the big teams played with 2 defensive midfielders. Now they dropped that and are playing with only one DM and one CM.

I honestly don't think that reducing the numbers of teams from 4 to 3 for the big three leagues will make too much difference. Sure, it will give some teams from smaller leagues a chance at the competition but if anything it will weaken the structure as these teams will just become group whipping boys - back in the 80's when it was a true 'one from each league' structure, it was quite common for there to be 5-0 and 6-0 wins and the competition didn't usually get very competitive until the semi or quarter finals - at least with the present structure you are guaranteed a few glamour ties in the groups stages.

Well if you give the smaller teams a chance at the CL then they will have more money and in time the CL will became more evenly mach. That instead of having the same teams fighting to win it. More, now a Nottingham Forest miracle will never happen or teams like Liverpool in the 70’s. If you look at the list of the richest clubs you will see a 50 mil Euro difference between top 10 and the rest. And the lower on the list you get the bigger the difference is. Sure, it’s not their fault this has happened but UEFA must find a way to make the competition more attractive. And for me seeing Barca – Chelsea every year is not attractive.

gone wrote:Well if you give the smaller teams a chance at the CL then they will have more money and in time the CL will became more evenly mach. That instead of having the same teams fighting to win it. More, now a Nottingham Forest miracle will never happen or teams like Liverpool in the 70’s. If you look at the list of the richest clubs you will see a 50 mil Euro difference between top 10 and the rest. And the lower on the list you get the bigger the difference is. Sure, it’s not their fault this has happened but UEFA must find a way to make the competition more attractive. And for me seeing Barca – Chelsea every year is not attractive.

Thats got a lot more to do with the finance structure of the PL than the CL. The Forests of this world aren't getting money from the CL anyway.

There was a proposal that all the money from the CL should be given to the FA and not the clubs. Then the FA will split the money between all the clubs. I don’t know how much sense this makes and I don’t think it will ever be put to use. But consider this: now England has 4 teams in the CL (always the big 4). If England will have only 3 teams then one of the big 4 will lose some money and will not be able to pay 12 mil a year to a player. Thus dropping the level of expenses for the rest of the league. Same thing in Spain or Italy. And in the end the difference between England, Spain and Italy and the rest of the leagues will be smaller.