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    Is Gattuso the best player in the World?

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    Post by Parks lives Fri May 04, 2007 12:19 pm

    Roger Hunt wrote:I would say Essien is the benchmark this season. He certainly has more going forward than Gattuso.

    I am surprised (pleasantly) to see the number of people including Mascherano in the top echelon in that position. He has certainly been superb for us. I think he needs to put in a whole season before he's judged however.

    I suppose it's because people can see the potential and also remember how classy he looked at the World cup.

    It's personally horrible that you have a player of that calibre. Laughing
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    Post by Roger Hunt Fri May 04, 2007 12:28 pm

    Ta - think of it as payback for you having Ronaldo.
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    Post by DS Fri May 04, 2007 12:33 pm

    Hargy was injured whole first half of the season , Hargy is more powerful then Essien not as good I think.
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    Post by Tarun Fri May 04, 2007 12:35 pm

    bluenine wrote:This may be your opinion, dude, for me a defender is as much of a REAL FOOTBALLER as a striker/AM.

    Sometimes they play a more critical role, and deserve the credit for that. They don't necessarily stop opponents from playing attractive football, that is rubbish, they actually force teh opponent to play football at a higher level to win. A game with poor defenses and lot of easy goals is a POOR game of football. Thats how I see it.

    Ricardo Jol wrote:
    Only real footballers like Ronaldinho, Kaka, C Ronaldo, Drogba, Van Persie, Messi, Eto'o, Diego etc. can be put in this category when they are playing great football!

    IMO a defensive midfielder, defensive defenders, goalkeepers, work horses up front, hard working midfielders are NEVER allowed to win this title because they are not "real footballers" no matter how good these players play on that position. They are only players who stop the opponent to play attractive football. That's how I see it!

    Coffee
    ok ok
    Games can never be won only by attacking. So whoever contributes the best in their positions should be eligible for the award
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    Post by Chap Fri May 04, 2007 1:46 pm

    Also, sophisticated defenders often have an outstanding understanding of the game. Intelligent movement, tactical understanding, and often the ability to alter their game to suit the oponent/pace. It isn't just running into whoever comes closest to you.
    When attacking players are credited with creativity its not about their speed, strength, or quick feet. Its' about their ability to read the game. The same thing applies to other positions.
    Gattuso is not just good because he's athletic and committed. He's not the best in the world, but there's no reason why a defensive player shouldn't be.
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    Post by Glenarch of the Glen Fri May 04, 2007 1:50 pm

    Roger Hunt wrote:Nobody's mentioned Hargreaves...

    I mentioned Hargreaves in my mind when I was trying to think of the top 5 players in that position. I got to 4 and gave up and so wasted a good 2 minutes of my life.

    Hargreaves.

    There we are.
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    Post by Roger Hunt Fri May 04, 2007 2:05 pm

    Well if you think about it, my post made itself incorrect since when I said 'nobody's mentioned Hargreaves', I mentioned Hargreaves.

    I'm surprised Kimbo hasn't mentioned Scott Parker though Wink
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    Post by Guest Fri May 04, 2007 2:08 pm

    Gattuso hasn't even been the best player at Milan this season, that title belongs to Seedorf.
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    Post by BoBo Vieri 32 Fri May 04, 2007 2:27 pm

    Tweedle wrote:+ the fact that Cannavaro had been pretty average with the excepotion of 7 world cup games

    you thought he was average with juve? scratch
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    Post by Tweesus Fri May 04, 2007 2:29 pm

    BoBo Vieri wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:+ the fact that Cannavaro had been pretty average with the excepotion of 7 world cup games

    you thought he was average with juve? scratch

    Well, in the league Juve bribed their way to the title anyway.

    In the CL he did nothing verses us that made me think he was anything better than average.
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    Post by Red n' Black Fri May 04, 2007 2:30 pm

    Of course Gattuso is not the best player in the world! But as a Milan fan, i say he is an irreplaceable player. If he ever saw this thread he would probably laugh his ass out too, he is a really modest guy and whenever someone gives him such praise he always says that he is nothing compared to pirlo and other flair players etc. the beast is a great man who deserves respect ok


    @ Rez: About the game, i'm sure Vidic could have been booked on more than one occassion too. Therefore, i don't really think the 'ref was a Milan fan'. Wink
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    Post by merseyman Fri May 04, 2007 2:40 pm

    bluenine wrote:This is ridiculous! Gattuso is good, but the hype he is getting in england after these games is absolutely ridiculous....

    Forget best player in the world, IMO Gattuso isn't even among the top 3-4 players in HIS position. As for better work horses, IMO Eissen, Cambiasso, Mascherano are better - they do the dirtly work and they link up much better. At their hayday, so were Davids, Makalele and Vieira.

    And he wasn't even the best Milan player in either of the two games against ManU.... in the first one, Kaka was the best... in the second leg, it was Seedorf...

    Stop this stupid hype...

    Have to agree there. He had a fine game on Wednesday and you have to admire his industry and dedication to the cause. That said, he was totally up for THAT game... he doesn't always play like that. If we want to talk about quantity, Darren Fletcher was probably the best player on the pitch in the first leg. But unlike Gattuso, he had the physical (and, above all, mental) fatigue of a crucial match against Everton in the middle of the two ties. Gattuso is a fine player, and is invaluable in the "big matches" (when he is physically and mentally prepared), but not complete enough to be considered a world great.

    Also, if a card-happy ref had booked Gattuso in the first half and then sent him off (for his third or fourth niggly foul on Ronaldo), would we now be saying he cost Milan the match?

    Paul Ince (c.1996-98 ) was faster, fitter, more technical (no comparison!), more aggressive, and scored more goals than Gattuso, though I'd wager he'd have got himself sent off last Wednesday for reacting to Gattuso's behaviour in that little fracas at the end!
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    Post by BoBo Vieri 32 Fri May 04, 2007 2:45 pm

    Tweedle wrote:
    BoBo Vieri wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:+ the fact that Cannavaro had been pretty average with the excepotion of 7 world cup games

    you thought he was average with juve? scratch

    Well, in the league Juve bribed their way to the title anyway.

    In the CL he did nothing verses us that made me think he was anything better than average.

    The players wernt aware of this and it doesnt take away what Cannavaro did on the pitch - he was awesome.

    Fair enough on your comment in the CL. Juve looked pretty toothless in attack and theres not much Cannavaro can do in that respect. The other games he did pretty well.

    In a world cup year, usually the star player of the WC gets it. Ronaldo won it in 2002 when he was injured most of the season. Zidane won it 98 when he got outperformed by Del Piero and was then Cr@p at the beginning of the 1998/99 season.
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    Post by bluenine Fri May 04, 2007 2:50 pm

    Tweedy, almost every post you make on Serie A has something factually incorrect....

    Calciopoli was not about bribing. There is no evidence of it.

    Cannavaro had a great season with Juve.

    Tweedle wrote:
    BoBo Vieri wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:+ the fact that Cannavaro had been pretty average with the excepotion of 7 world cup games

    you thought he was average with juve? scratch

    Well, in the league Juve bribed their way to the title anyway.

    In the CL he did nothing verses us that made me think he was anything better than average.
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    Post by Parks lives Fri May 04, 2007 2:51 pm

    bluenine wrote:Tweedy, almost every post you make on anything has something factually incorrect....


    Biggrin
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    Post by merseyman Fri May 04, 2007 2:52 pm

    Rez wrote:
    The best player in the world has to be a creator not a destroyer, its easier to run arond hustling and kicking people than it is to play inch perfect through balls or score beautiful goals. Its like the difference between a demolition man and a Architect.

    Word.

    Sure, defenders are important too (no one's denying that). But you really cannot compare the relative difficulty of the two things. At the end of the day, it's the reason why attacking players cost more than defensive players.

    Just think about the difficulty involved in heading away a free kick: if you jump and make sure the attacker doesn't get a clean header, you've pretty much done your job! An attacker has to avoid the defender, time his jump so that he can head the ball down towards a relatively small target, and direct it away from the keeper.

    When Matthaus famously marked Maradona out of a West Germany- Argentina friendly in '81 (if memory serves), he modestly commented afterwards: "All I had to do was stop him (Maradona)... it wasn't my responsibility to make the play".
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    Post by bluenine Fri May 04, 2007 2:53 pm

    Laugh

    Parks lives wrote:
    bluenine wrote:Tweedy, almost every post you make on anything has something factually incorrect....


    Biggrin
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    Post by Tweesus Fri May 04, 2007 2:54 pm

    Sorry, not bribing - its easier to write that though than to give a completely accurate description which would have required me to write some 20 pages or so of quite frankly boring spiel.

    Fact is, he won it purely for the world cup. Aside from that he was no better than anyone else - and worse than quite a few

    bluenine wrote:Tweedy, almost every post you make on Serie A has something factually incorrect....

    Calciopoli was not about bribing. There is no evidence of it.

    Cannavaro had a great season with Juve.

    Tweedle wrote:
    BoBo Vieri wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:+ the fact that Cannavaro had been pretty average with the excepotion of 7 world cup games

    you thought he was average with juve? scratch

    Well, in the league Juve bribed their way to the title anyway.

    In the CL he did nothing verses us that made me think he was anything better than average.
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    Post by Rez Fri May 04, 2007 3:05 pm

    Red n' Black wrote:@ Rez: About the game, i'm sure Vidic could have been booked on more than one occassion too. Therefore, i don't really think the 'ref was a Milan fan'. Wink

    You are right Vidic should have been booked for his foul on Gillardino (or was it Kaka) when he came through the back of him.

    The thing that annoyed me was that Gattuso fouled a united player whenever he got into a decent position (didnt happen very often as we were useless in the final third). He made two tackles on Ronaldo in the first 30 minutes which could easily have been yellow cards, but the ref did nothing about it. So Gattuso just carried on, which is what all players are going to do, as they play to what they can get away with, so Ambrosini joined in and then Vidic did.

    I was amazed he didnt really book anyone in the first 60 minutes after seeing Scholes get 2 yellow cards in Rome for 2 fouls which were not worse than anything that had happened during the game.

    The ref was too afraid to card anyone in case they missed the final, hence the yellow card for Ronaldo in the last 5 minutes, after doing the same tackle Gattuso did on numerous occasions but in a far less dangerous position of the pitch.

    Letting the game flow and keeping the card in the pocket is good in some games, but when players continuosly make tactical fouls the referee needs to clamp down on it. It reminded me of the nice teacher you had at school, who everyone liked because you could get away with anything.

    I am not saying we would have won as our defence were giving goals away for fun, but if Gattuso got booked early on, we wouldnt have seen the persistant/cynical fouls from Gattuso or some of the fouls by ambrosini or Vidic.

    Rant over, good luck in the final.
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    Post by Isco Benny Fri May 04, 2007 3:13 pm

    COTR wrote:
    In your opinion, is it fair to say he is THE best player in the World
    affraid

    nice knee jerk thread TRWP Wink

    Aye, but it gets people talking doesnt it? Wink
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    Post by Rez Fri May 04, 2007 3:14 pm

    merseyman wrote:
    bluenine wrote:This is ridiculous! Gattuso is good, but the hype he is getting in england after these games is absolutely ridiculous....

    Forget best player in the world, IMO Gattuso isn't even among the top 3-4 players in HIS position. As for better work horses, IMO Eissen, Cambiasso, Mascherano are better - they do the dirtly work and they link up much better. At their hayday, so were Davids, Makalele and Vieira.

    And he wasn't even the best Milan player in either of the two games against ManU.... in the first one, Kaka was the best... in the second leg, it was Seedorf...

    Stop this stupid hype...

    Have to agree there. He had a fine game on Wednesday and you have to admire his industry and dedication to the cause. That said, he was totally up for THAT game... he doesn't always play like that. If we want to talk about quantity, Darren Fletcher was probably the best player on the pitch in the first leg. But unlike Gattuso, he had the physical (and, above all, mental) fatigue of a crucial match against Everton in the middle of the two ties. Gattuso is a fine player, and is invaluable in the "big matches" (when he is physically and mentally prepared), but not complete enough to be considered a world great.

    Also, if a card-happy ref had booked Gattuso in the first half and then sent him off (for his third or fourth niggly foul on Ronaldo), would we now be saying he cost Milan the match?

    Paul Ince (c.1996-98 ) was faster, fitter, more technical (no comparison!), more aggressive, and scored more goals than Gattuso, though I'd wager he'd have got himself sent off last Wednesday for reacting to Gattuso's behaviour in that little fracas at the end!

    <Ale>

    To be fair Merseyman, the nature of this board is to forget the past, a player is as good or as bad as his last game. One good game he is the best in the world, one bad game he is a choker and overrated. Its ridiculous but it keeps thing interesting, around here.

    Gattuso was everywhere on Wednesday night and he did a good job on united. However Seedorf and Kaka were better than him and Nesta just as good. Also as I have said on previous posts a different referee would have booked him about 3 times for his fouls and sent him off for trying to strangle Scholes and then making obscene gestures afterwards. I dont think Rooney would have got away with it.
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    Post by Parks lives Fri May 04, 2007 3:14 pm

    Gattuso or Carrick, Pele?
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    Post by merseyman Fri May 04, 2007 3:20 pm

    Rez wrote:
    To be fair Merseyman, the nature of this board is to forget the past, a player is as good or as bad as his last game. One good game he is the best in the world, one bad game he is a choker and overrated. Its ridiculous but it keeps thing interesting, around here.

    Gattuso was everywhere on Wednesday night and he did a good job on united. However Seedorf and Kaka were better than him and Nesta just as good. Also as I have said on previous posts a different referee would have booked him about 3 times for his fouls and sent him off for trying to strangle Scholes and then making obscene gestures afterwards. I dont think Rooney would have got away with it.

    My thoughts entirely. Of course, pros call it "playing the ref". I didn't count one nasty tackle from Gattuso the other night (and only one from his sidekick, Ambrosini). But you do get the impression with some refs that you can give away niggly freekicks until the cows come home, without seeing a card. Just hold your hands up each time in recognition of your crime, help your opponent up, and then run back to your position like a good soldier.

    That young Paul Scholes has a lot to learn!


    Last edited by on Fri May 04, 2007 4:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Rez Fri May 04, 2007 3:51 pm

    merseyman wrote:
    Rez wrote:
    To be fair Merseyman, the nature of this board is to forget the past, a player is as good or as bad as his last game. One good game he is the best in the world, one bad game he is a choker and overrated. Its ridiculous but it keeps thing interesting, around here.

    Gattuso was everywhere on Wednesday night and he did a good job on united. However Seedorf and Kaka were better than him and Nesta just as good. Also as I have said on previous posts a different referee would have booked him about 3 times for his fouls and sent him off for trying to strangle Scholes and then making obscene gestures afterwards. I dont think Rooney would have got away with it.

    My thoughts entirely. Of course, pros call it "playing the ref". I didn't count one nasty tackle from Gattuso the other night (and only one from his sidekick, Ambrosini). But you do get the impression with some refs that you can give away niggly freekicks until the cows come home, without seeing a card. Just hold your hands up each time in recognition of your crime, help your opponent up, and then run back to your position like a good soldier.

    That yound Paul Scholes has a lot to learn!

    We English need to learn how to commit the cynical foul. Carvahlo and Makalele have also perfected the dark art form. The france v Italy WC final was a masterclass in the dark arts. However I quite like the way, that this doesnt happen in the prem, as I have never been a fan of stop start football.

    Gattuso will meet his match when h comes up against Sisokko/Mascherano in the CL final, they arent at his level yet, but if its the same kind of ref in the final. Expect lots of fouls and not much football.
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    Post by abundance Fri May 04, 2007 4:25 pm

    Tweedle wrote:Fact is, he won it purely for the world cup. Aside from that he was no better than anyone else - and worse than quite a few

    Fact?? No way; That's just your opinion and I for one strongly disagree with that - and I'm an Inter fan, btw.

    Imho Cannavaro was IMMENSE in his two Serie A seasons at Juve. Flawless and rock solid, the best display of a stopper I've ever seen, week in week out.
    If you're impressed by his WC form, well he was like that almost every single weekend in the league for two years.
    As an Inter fan, I was mad about that, I almost couldn't believe how he rediscovered his best self so effectively after two lame seasons for us.

    In the CL, he didn't shine so much but it was the whole Juve team that underperformed - and I think that's much more due to Capello style than to Moggi's mafia in the home league.


    You can say that WPOTY shouldn't go to a such mono-dimensional player - fair enough.
    Cannavaro is a bit like Gattuso - he's excellent in the very narrow scope tasks he performs on the pitch, but has very limited footballing abilities beyond that. Ok. But in what he does well, he was virtually without comparision between 2004 - 2006.
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    Post by None Fri May 04, 2007 4:28 pm

    Most ridiculous question I've seen on this board.
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    Post by mongrel hawk Fri May 04, 2007 5:35 pm

    I agree. he's the best in the world today.

    but I disagree about the italian thing. he's italy from head to toe.



    I Am Weasel wrote:We usually judge the so called "best player" in the world on who scores the most goals, can do the most tricks, has the most media friendly appearance, and almost always who can add something to a team's attack.

    But Italian World Cup winner Gennaro Gattuso is none of these, yet is such an integral and important part of his team both at club and country level that he must be in the running for the accolade this season, particularly if Milan win the CL to go with his WC winners medal.

    People will point to Kaka as Milan's main man, but for me it was the influence and drive of Gattuso which was the main difference, urging Milan on, winning battle after battle in midfield.

    No disrespect to Italian fans, but Gattuso is very UN italian in how he plays- graceless yet without the histionics and play acting of say a Totti for example, full blooded and totally dedicated.

    Hence why I reckon Im not the only person to bloody love th guy even though Im neither Italian nor a Milanista.

    In your opinion, is it fair to say he is THE best player in the World, or do you disagree?
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    Post by mongrel hawk Fri May 04, 2007 5:39 pm

    it doesn't matter if milan haven't had a grat season. I've been defending him since before the WC. Always thought he was one of the best.




    Tweedle wrote:I disagree. Jesus wept, if Steven Carr played a blinder would you go round hailing him to be the world's best?

    Milan haven't exactly had the best season in the league have they? And up until Man Utd they've had a pretty easy CL run not really having to face any of the clubs regarded as favourites and scraping through a few times along the way.

    Gattuso WAS the best player on the field on wednesday but i can't see why the hell that would suddenly make him the best footballer in the world, after all, he's a typical workhorse with extreme determination - he's hardly 'best PLAYER in the world' material. He's never done anything with a football that has made me leap out of my seat.

    I'm a Gattuso every time I play footballer TRWP - I run around wrecklessly like a complete nuthead thats done about ten lines of coke - then only problem with me is that after 5 minutes I collapse in a heap, knackered, stressed and a shadow of the man I once was Ale
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    Post by mongrel hawk Fri May 04, 2007 5:42 pm

    a good bully is as important as a good playmaker.


    TarunDang wrote:He is a good bully though Wink
    mongrel hawk
    mongrel hawk


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    Is Gattuso the best player in the World? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is Gattuso the best player in the World?

    Post by mongrel hawk Fri May 04, 2007 5:45 pm

    mascherano had great sasons for river.

    Roger Hunt wrote:I would say Essien is the benchmark this season. He certainly has more going forward than Gattuso.

    I am surprised (pleasantly) to see the number of people including Mascherano in the top echelon in that position. He has certainly been superb for us. I think he needs to put in a whole season before he's judged however.

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    Is Gattuso the best player in the World? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is Gattuso the best player in the World?

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