HomeValencia and almost any Italian player. Virtually guaranteed not to work out. Corradi, Tavano, Fiore and even di Vaio. However, Carboni is an exception and will almost certainly look for Italian talent that will be loaned out in the new year transfer window. Tavano never learned Spanish. Incvredible given the similarity of Italian and Spanish
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Potentially bad transfers this summer?
EMP- Number of posts : 7384
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Bashmachkin- Number of posts : 2374
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Agooner wrote:Any sevilla player.
I am starting to believe it's the system that makes players look good at that club. You see players struggling at other clubs but suddenly start performing well when the go there eg kerzakov, Escude etc
I was also asking myself the other day, how many of their best players have left them and gone on to do well for other clubs? Ramos ( even though i don't rate him as a CB)...and that's it.
Kerzhakov has just scored a hat-trick today for Russia. And I have to say, I always liked him when I watched him for Zenit, which I did occasionally because I love St Petersburg, and stayed there a month a while ago during which time I saw quite a bit of TV coverage, though never ventured to go to a game. Id have liked Newcastle to have bought him, especially for the 5million Euros.
For Newcastle, Barton would be the worst buy imaginable, and the worst start for Allardyce both in terms of the quality of the player and his attitude. It sounds like he might be off to West Ham though.
Calidad- Number of posts : 7996
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EMP wrote:Valencia and almost any Italian player. Virtually guaranteed not to work out. Corradi, Tavano, Fiore and even di Vaio. However, Carboni is an exception and will almost certainly look for Italian talent that will be loaned out in the new year transfer window. Tavano never learned Spanish. Incvredible given the similarity of Italian and Spanish
Isn't Moretti Italian?
EMP- Number of posts : 7384
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@Calidad. Yes Moretti is Italian. An exception to the rule, but I did say almost every Italian. Just don't want to risk another Tavano fiasco and Carboni can pretty much be relied on to try it. I'd rather trust Quique to choose the talent he wants as it makes zero sense for the Carboni to foist his choices onto the coach. Absolutely crazy system.
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Generally, Italians just don't seem to work in La Liga for some strange reason. I wonder if they just can't adapt to the different mindset, right through from training to the games. Zambrotta pointed out how it was a real culture shock to him to suddenly be training only with the ball, rather than the large amount of physical and tactical work that they do in Italy. Plus there was that Chievo or Udinese coach who called Barça's training "a joke".
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Exactly. You would have thought that quality players like Cannavaro and Zambrotta would easily adapt. How was Vieri thought of when he was in Spain? Don't think Cannavaro will stay. Real not patient enough and doubt he wants to stay, but if Zambrotta stays I think he might just work out as he has had time to adapt now. It seems even players who play in Serie A struggle. Samuel for example. He was awesome in Serie A, but flopped at Real and was reduced to a bit player at Inter.
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Yeah, and if you look at Thuram and Zambrotta, it has taken both of them well over half a season to adapt, and still, perhaps it's only because both are among the best in the world in their positions.
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there really isnt that much in common between italy and spain as one might think.i think its mostly the training but i gues cannavaros/emersons failure kinds of counters that since we train more like a italian team. i can understand why the defensive players arent to happy about the league but tavano/de vaio should have it easier then in italy but they failed too allthough tavano didnt get a real chance just like cassano. so its hard to point at the exact thing that makes it hard for italian players.
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supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:there really isnt that much in common between italy and spain as one might think.i think its mostly the training but i gues cannavaros/emersons failure kinds of counters that since we train more like a italian team. i can understand why the defensive players arent to happy about the league but tavano/de vaio should have it easier then in italy but they failed too allthough tavano didnt get a real chance just like cassano. so its hard to point at the exact thing that makes it hard for italian players.
That's also an issue - generally the players coming over from Italy have a high profile and so expectations for them to deliver immediately are high. If we had had a suitable backup at fullback, I doubt Zambrotta would have kept getting games from Rijkaard.
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supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:there really isnt that much in common between italy and spain as one might think.i think its mostly the training but i gues cannavaros/emersons failure kinds of counters that since we train more like a italian team. i can understand why the defensive players arent to happy about the league but tavano/de vaio should have it easier then in italy but they failed too allthough tavano didnt get a real chance just like cassano. so its hard to point at the exact thing that makes it hard for italian players.
Tavano illustrates my point. Ludicrous to have signed him. Carboni liked him Quique didn't. €7m for a player loaned to Roma at first opportunity. Tavano was never part of Quique's plans and as the coach picks the team he was never going to get a chance unless Villa or Morientes oined the injury procession. Ridiculous system.
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It is very strange how the italians don't do well in La Liga (Di Vaio, Fiore, Cannavaro, Zambrotta...) and the Spaniards don't do well in Serie A (Jose Mari, Mendieta, Farinos, Javi Moreno..)
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BoBo Vieri wrote:It is very strange how the italians don't do well in La Liga (Di Vaio, Fiore, Cannavaro, Zambrotta...) and the Spaniards don't do well in Serie A (Jose Mari, Mendieta, Farinos, Javi Moreno..)
Vieri being a lone exeption?
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i gues if we look past our fixed opionion of italian players not fitting in spain it might give a more balanced view though.
morreti: has done well so doesnt fit
carboni: was great or at least good
de vaio: didnt think he was Cr@p but didnt deliver
fiore: the same as de vaio i think or maybe worse
corradi: bad
tavano: never got a real chance
Samuel: was quite bad but towards the end he was doing better but in most eyes a flop
cannavaro: actually the same as samuel and whether or not he is a succes will prob be decided by if he leaves or not.
emerson*: even if he has improved the could of most of the seasons Cr@p performances hangs to much over him. and since he prob wont stay he will get labled a flop.
cassano: same as emerson but it has been his attitude that makes him a flop.
zambrotta: was bad untill around the start of the second half of the season. allthough i think he has kind of fallen back again.
Thuram: pretty much the same.
i gues we can say that italians dont do well in spain but if some got/get more time it have been different.
morreti: has done well so doesnt fit
carboni: was great or at least good
de vaio: didnt think he was Cr@p but didnt deliver
fiore: the same as de vaio i think or maybe worse
corradi: bad
tavano: never got a real chance
Samuel: was quite bad but towards the end he was doing better but in most eyes a flop
cannavaro: actually the same as samuel and whether or not he is a succes will prob be decided by if he leaves or not.
emerson*: even if he has improved the could of most of the seasons Cr@p performances hangs to much over him. and since he prob wont stay he will get labled a flop.
cassano: same as emerson but it has been his attitude that makes him a flop.
zambrotta: was bad untill around the start of the second half of the season. allthough i think he has kind of fallen back again.
Thuram: pretty much the same.
i gues we can say that italians dont do well in spain but if some got/get more time it have been different.
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Basically any transfer concerning Lucho Gonzales from porto
DD- Number of posts : 10721
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Smith and Richardson + cash for Anelka
If that happens Bolton are down.
If that happens Bolton are down.
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- Post n°46
Re: Potentially bad transfers this summer?
by Liverpool 0 - 1 Man U Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:33 pm
Barrilete_Cosmico wrote:Basically any transfer concerning Lucho Gonzales from porto
What do you mean? Isn't he highly rated?
BoBo Vieri 32- Number of posts : 10187
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supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:i gues if we look past our fixed opionion of italian players not fitting in spain it might give a more balanced view though.
morreti: has done well so doesnt fit
carboni: was great or at least good
de vaio: didnt think he was Cr@p but didnt deliver
fiore: the same as de vaio i think or maybe worse
corradi: bad
tavano: never got a real chance
Samuel: was quite bad but towards the end he was doing better but in most eyes a flop
cannavaro: actually the same as samuel and whether or not he is a succes will prob be decided by if he leaves or not.
emerson*: even if he has improved the could of most of the seasons Cr@p performances hangs to much over him. and since he prob wont stay he will get labled a flop.
cassano: same as emerson but it has been his attitude that makes him a flop.
zambrotta: was bad untill around the start of the second half of the season. allthough i think he has kind of fallen back again.
Thuram: pretty much the same.
i gues we can say that italians dont do well in spain but if some got/get more time it have been different.
didnt Zidane also take some time to settle in at Real?
The Pröfessör- Number of posts : 10076
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Barrilete_Cosmico wrote:Basically any transfer concerning Lucho Gonzales from porto
don't u rate him? i think he's a fine player
Zack- Number of posts : 1571
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Calidad wrote:I can be objective. I'm part English and from England, but I don't support an English club.
Lennon is overrated. Pace merchant, with little to no technique.
Bull-fucking-$h!t his just a pace-merchent. Though he is definetly is not the finished article by any means and won't be for a few years atleast, he has more than pace. His touch, awreness is superb. He can control the ball, i.e not just hit and run, when he runs, the ball never travels a yard away from him. His first touch is under-rated and his passing is under-rated. I see him week in and week out, the guy has potential to be awesome. Plus that x-factor, e.g creating space for other's, when he takes on 2-3 players.
What he lacks, but can achieve (he is young) is end-product, notably crossing. But I have every-faith that he can improve that aspect over the coming years. His finishing and assist making is improving every season. (C.Ronaldo is a good example of this, although Ronaldo is in a different class to Lennon, but he lacked the end-product, but as he has improved in that area pretty well).
As for Kimbo, he probably writes to every football forum, Tabloids and even phone in for 606, ranting about Newcastle?!? Nah, ranting about "how over-rated Lennon blah blah, my Milner doesn't get the reconigion he deserves, his the best right-sided player in the country" etc etc...
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Zack_thfc wrote:Calidad wrote:I can be objective. I'm part English and from England, but I don't support an English club.
Lennon is overrated. Pace merchant, with little to no technique.
Bull-fucking-$h!t his just a pace-merchent. Though he is definetly is not the finished article by any means and won't be for a few years atleast, he has more than pace. His touch, awreness is superb. He can control the ball, i.e not just hit and run, when he runs, the ball never travels a yard away from him. His first touch is under-rated and his passing is under-rated. I see him week in and week out, the guy has potential to be awesome. Plus that x-factor, e.g creating space for other's, when he takes on 2-3 players.
What he lacks, but can achieve (he is young) is end-product, notably crossing. But I have every-faith that he can improve that aspect over the coming years. His finishing and assist making is improving every season. (C.Ronaldo is a good example of this, although Ronaldo is in a different class to Lennon, but he lacked the end-product, but as he has improved in that area pretty well).
As for Kimbo, he probably writes to every football forum, Tabloids and even phone in for 606, ranting about Newcastle?!? Nah, ranting about "how over-rated Lennon blah blah, my Milner doesn't get the reconigion he deserves, his the best right-sided player in the country" etc etc...
I wouldn't call him a pace merchant(that's a bit OTT), although pace is his main asset, he has good close control to go with it aswell.
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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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I can't stand people calling players like Henry and Lennon pace merchants.
Watch Cisse dribble-that's a pace merchant, there is no close ball control but to be able to do the things that Henry and Lennon do, you've gotta have great ability to turn at pace, and be agile.
Hell, even Cristiano ronaldo is running fast when he does his step overs, is he a pace merchant?
Watch Cisse dribble-that's a pace merchant, there is no close ball control but to be able to do the things that Henry and Lennon do, you've gotta have great ability to turn at pace, and be agile.
Hell, even Cristiano ronaldo is running fast when he does his step overs, is he a pace merchant?
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Zack_thfc wrote:Calidad wrote:I can be objective. I'm part English and from England, but I don't support an English club.
Lennon is overrated. Pace merchant, with little to no technique.
Bull-fucking-$h!t his just a pace-merchent. Though he is definetly is not the finished article by any means and won't be for a few years atleast, he has more than pace. His touch, awreness is superb. He can control the ball, i.e not just hit and run, when he runs, the ball never travels a yard away from him. His first touch is under-rated and his passing is under-rated. I see him week in and week out, the guy has potential to be awesome. Plus that x-factor, e.g creating space for other's, when he takes on 2-3 players.
What he lacks, but can achieve (he is young) is end-product, notably crossing. But I have every-faith that he can improve that aspect over the coming years. His finishing and assist making is improving every season. (C.Ronaldo is a good example of this, although Ronaldo is in a different class to Lennon, but he lacked the end-product, but as he has improved in that area pretty well).
As for Kimbo, he probably writes to every football forum, Tabloids and even phone in for 606, ranting about Newcastle?!? Nah, ranting about "how over-rated Lennon blah blah, my Milner doesn't get the reconigion he deserves, his the best right-sided player in the country" etc etc...
-----------------------------------------------
As for us - the rumours that have made me CRINGE:
Joey Barton
Scott Parker
Nigel Reo-Coker
Darren Bent....
--------------------------------------------------
@ Kevin
I'd never call Chairwee a pace-merchant, but he is a knock & run player
Liverpool 0 - 1 Man U- Number of posts : 3621
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- Post n°55
Re: Potentially bad transfers this summer?
by Liverpool 0 - 1 Man U Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:38 pm
TeamSpiritwrote:
Zack_thfc wrote:Calidad wrote:I can be objective. I'm part English and from England, but I don't support an English club.
Lennon is overrated. Pace merchant, with little to no technique.
Bull-fucking-$h!t his just a pace-merchent. Though he is definetly is not the finished article by any means and won't be for a few years atleast, he has more than pace. His touch, awreness is superb. He can control the ball, i.e not just hit and run, when he runs, the ball never travels a yard away from him. His first touch is under-rated and his passing is under-rated. I see him week in and week out, the guy has potential to be awesome. Plus that x-factor, e.g creating space for other's, when he takes on 2-3 players.
What he lacks, but can achieve (he is young) is end-product, notably crossing. But I have every-faith that he can improve that aspect over the coming years. His finishing and assist making is improving every season. (C.Ronaldo is a good example of this, although Ronaldo is in a different class to Lennon, but he lacked the end-product, but as he has improved in that area pretty well).
As for Kimbo, he probably writes to every football forum, Tabloids and even phone in for 606, ranting about Newcastle?!? Nah, ranting about "how over-rated Lennon blah blah, my Milner doesn't get the reconigion he deserves, his the best right-sided player in the country" etc etc...
-----------------------------------------------
As for us - the rumours that have made me CRINGE:
Joey Barton
Scott Parker
Nigel Reo-Coker
Darren Bent....
Alan Smith
--------------------------------------------------
@ Kevin
I'd never call Chairwee a pace-merchant, but he is a knock & run player
DD- Number of posts : 10721
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Strange you haven't come out and deny/object to this one, TS.TeamSpirit
Joey Barton
Scott Parker
Nigel Reo-Coker
Darren Bent....
Friday's rumours
And while one striker comes into Old Trafford, another could be on his way out. Tottenham want England international Alan Smith. (Sun)
Not even a cringe?
Deluded F*ck™- Number of posts : 21765
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Alan Smith to Tottenham is not a rumour - it's an abomination.
Now we just have to wait and see what species survives
Now we just have to wait and see what species survives
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Spurs ponder £7m offer for Smith
Tottenham will make a £7million bid for Alan Smith after seeing Manchester United bolster their attacking options with Nani and Anderson.
The Red Devils have agreed deals to sign Portuguese playmakers Nani and Anderson from Sporting Lisbon and Porto respectively.
And that means Sir Alex Ferguson has a wealth of attacking options at his disposal for next season's title defence - so could be ready to cash in on Smith and Louis Saha.
Former Leeds forward Smith has reportedly not been offered a promised new contract after suffering an injury-plagued season.
And even though he is now fully fit, he will struggle to command a regular starting place at Old Trafford in the 2007-08 campaign.
Spurs chief Martin Jol has been tipped to offload Mido this summer - and wants Smith as his fourth striker in the first-team squad alongside Dimitar Berbatov, Robbie Keane and Jermain Defoe.
Ferguson may be tempted to accept an offer as he has also been linked with a move for Bolton hitman Nicolas Anelka - but has already blown his summer transfer budget so would need to generate the funds himself.
Tottenham will make a £7million bid for Alan Smith after seeing Manchester United bolster their attacking options with Nani and Anderson.
The Red Devils have agreed deals to sign Portuguese playmakers Nani and Anderson from Sporting Lisbon and Porto respectively.
And that means Sir Alex Ferguson has a wealth of attacking options at his disposal for next season's title defence - so could be ready to cash in on Smith and Louis Saha.
Former Leeds forward Smith has reportedly not been offered a promised new contract after suffering an injury-plagued season.
And even though he is now fully fit, he will struggle to command a regular starting place at Old Trafford in the 2007-08 campaign.
Spurs chief Martin Jol has been tipped to offload Mido this summer - and wants Smith as his fourth striker in the first-team squad alongside Dimitar Berbatov, Robbie Keane and Jermain Defoe.
Ferguson may be tempted to accept an offer as he has also been linked with a move for Bolton hitman Nicolas Anelka - but has already blown his summer transfer budget so would need to generate the funds himself.
Deluded F*ck™- Number of posts : 21765
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Stop It. 
I'd rather have a moody, de-motivated, and overweight Mido than Smith, it's that bad.
I'd rather have a moody, de-motivated, and overweight Mido than Smith, it's that bad.
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BoBo Vieri wrote:supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:i gues if we look past our fixed opionion of italian players not fitting in spain it might give a more balanced view though.
morreti: has done well so doesnt fit
carboni: was great or at least good
de vaio: didnt think he was Cr@p but didnt deliver
fiore: the same as de vaio i think or maybe worse
corradi: bad
tavano: never got a real chance
Samuel: was quite bad but towards the end he was doing better but in most eyes a flop
cannavaro: actually the same as samuel and whether or not he is a succes will prob be decided by if he leaves or not.
emerson*: even if he has improved the could of most of the seasons Cr@p performances hangs to much over him. and since he prob wont stay he will get labled a flop.
cassano: same as emerson but it has been his attitude that makes him a flop.
zambrotta: was bad untill around the start of the second half of the season. allthough i think he has kind of fallen back again.
Thuram: pretty much the same.
i gues we can say that italians dont do well in spain but if some got/get more time it have been different.
didnt Zidane also take some time to settle in at Real?
Have any Italian youngsters been tried in La Liga and have any tried their luck at UEFA Cup chasing teams? That might give them the time to adapt. Any player moving leagues will need time to adapt, but few are given time. Have other nationalities worked out any better?
Perhaps the hiring of Italian talent (Moretti excepted) at Valencia is a cunning plan to ensure that Carboni remains a legend in La Liga, especially at Valencia as the stand-out Italian. No-one can say he didn't adapt. Perhaps his failure to adapt came after he hung up his boots, but he might work out if only he can get past that grudge he has against Quique.