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72-76-80-96-08
29 posters

    Tottenham or Arsenal

    Poll

    Spurs or Arsenal

    [ 16 ]
    Tottenham or Arsenal Bar_left31%Tottenham or Arsenal Bar_right [31%] 
    [ 35 ]
    Tottenham or Arsenal Bar_left69%Tottenham or Arsenal Bar_right [69%] 

    Total Votes: 51
    72-76-80-96-08
    72-76-80-96-08


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    Post by 72-76-80-96-08 Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:37 pm

    who of the two is going to win the North-London EPL race in the league

    Question

    who will come on top Question

    Arsenal have lost their talisman, Henry; even if the replacement can score as many goals, the team's inspiration is gone; the dressing room will almost certainly feel somewhat dejected; Cesc admitted that EVERYBODY was looking up to Henry, his incredible workrate, even in training

    Arsenal had problems replacing Vieira , despite some good games by the Spanish teenager; the same fate could await them post-Henry

    Spurs meanwhile could hold on to Berbatov who will be even better next season; add a few clever reinforcements and they won't get weaker
    Kimbo
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    Post by Kimbo Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:39 pm

    Let this summers Spurs hype commence. <Ale>
    Rosicky
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    Post by Rosicky Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:42 pm

    Arsenal obviously, but we should really wait see who the respective clubs sign first.
    72-76-80-96-08
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    Post by 72-76-80-96-08 Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:43 pm

    which players are Spurs REALISTICALLY going for in the transfer market
    Rosicky
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    Post by Rosicky Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:44 pm

    Darling wrote:which players are Spurs REALISTICALLY going for in the transfer market

    Darren Bent for £15-16 million.
    Kimbo
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    Post by Kimbo Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:45 pm

    Darling wrote:which players are Spurs REALISTICALLY going for in the transfer market

    They've already got Bale. They're going for Kaboul(pretty much done i think), Bent, and a left winger.
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    Post by Parks lives Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:46 pm

    Kimbo wrote:
    Darling wrote:which players are Spurs REALISTICALLY going for in the transfer market

    They've already got Bale. They're going for Kaboul(pretty much done i think), Bent, and a left winger.

    If they get a good left winger and this Kaboul is an adequote replacement for King when he is injured they will be strong in all areas.

    Still going to be hard to get 4th though.
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    Zack


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    Post by Zack Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:47 pm

    Arsenal will finish in the top 2 and Spurs just miss out on the CL place...

    The underdog Tag will suit the young players to the ground, no pressure at all...plus with a few signings, I can unfortunetly see Arsenal challenging for the title, you may laugh now, but I have got this gut feeling. Wenger always somehow delivers, when he has got his back to the wall...

    As for us, we will see what players we bring in. I think the we need to get defensive covers and a world Class winger if we want to challenge the Top 4...plus the burden of playing over 60 games, if we do well again in the cup competitions...

    But than I am always pessimistic.......
    lrdsucksgoats
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    Post by lrdsucksgoats Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:19 pm

    Zack_thfc wrote:Arsenal will finish in the top 2 and Spurs just miss out on the CL place...

    The underdog Tag will suit the young players to the ground, no pressure at all...plus with a few signings, I can unfortunetly see Arsenal challenging for the title, you may laugh now, but I have got this gut feeling. Wenger always somehow delivers, when he has got his back to the wall...

    As for us, we will see what players we bring in. I think the we need to get defensive covers and a world Class winger if we want to challenge the Top 4...plus the burden of playing over 60 games, if we do well again in the cup competitions...

    But than I am always pessimistic.......

    I beg to fucking differ. Arsenal finishing ahead of Man U and Chelsea next season is in no way pessimistic.

    And Wenger doesn't always deliver - he's lost far more league titles than he's won, hasn't won a trophy for two seasons, sold his best two players and let his other best three players leave for nothing (Vieira and Henry, Bergkamp, Pires and Campbell), only one of which has been properly replaced (Campbell - Toure). Still has no goalscoring midfielder. Still has no proper winger. Still has no left-footed attack. Still has no proper targetman. Still has no goal poacher.

    Top 2? Top 4 if they're lucky, like they were this last season.
    Axeslammer
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    Post by Axeslammer Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:41 pm

    If Arsenal buy a decent goalie I can see them competing for the title.

    RVP > Henry anyway Wink
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    Post by Tweesus Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:59 pm

    We played most of the last season without Henry AND RVP and we managed just fine ok
    Axeslammer
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    Post by Axeslammer Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:02 pm

    Tweedle wrote:We played most of the last season without Henry AND RVP and we managed just fine ok

    That's what I say : WITH RVP you'd be even better ok

    Replace that clown in goal and you've got a good side Ale
    Tweesus
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    Post by Tweesus Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:04 pm

    ErGaatNietsBovenGroningen wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:We played most of the last season without Henry AND RVP and we managed just fine ok

    That's what I say : WITH RVP you'd be even better ok

    Replace that clown in goal and you've got a good side Ale

    You mean the clown that broke the Champions league record for clean sheets in a row and was the best keeper at the world cup?

    He's not amazing but he'll do for another season ok
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    Post by Sgoater1 Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:07 pm

    It all depends on who Arsenal sign this summer. Their youngster will get better (as will Spurs's) but they need a couple of big signings, a winger, someone like Malouda, a left back and a couple of strikers like Trez Babel or Anelka. WIth 3 or 4 signings they will still finish 4th and push on next season without Henry. BUT if they dont suitably replace Henry then they will have a big battle for 4th.
    lrdsucksgoats
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    Post by lrdsucksgoats Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:09 pm

    Tweedle wrote:We played most of the last season without Henry AND RVP and we managed just fine ok

    So you'd be happy with another season finishing fourth with less than 70 points with the closest you get to a trophy being a loss to another top four reserve side in the Carling Cup final?

    Lack of ambition. The Wenger influence - 'as long as we pass the ball in pretty ways and have youngsters to hype, it doesn't matter if we win f@ck all'...
    SuperMario
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    Post by SuperMario Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:37 pm

    Arsenal

    St. Totteringham day will be April 19th this season.
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:11 pm

    Theres no way Arsenal will finish in top 2 !!!

    Get used to it folks - from now on the leagues that have 1 automatic CL place will be dominated by 1 team:

    Bayern (a blip this year)
    PSV
    Fenerbahce
    Porto
    Olympiakos
    Lyon
    Celtic


    The leagues that have 2 automatic Champions League places will be dominated by 2 teams:

    Man U/Chelsea
    Real/Barca
    Milan/Inter

    Liverpool, Arsenal, Sevilla, Valencia, Juve, Sporting, Benfica will put up a fight but that's pretty much how it will be.

    Sure Gerry Armstrong will tell you that "Zaragoza will challenge for the title next season" Laughing and the odd deluded Arsenal (or in this case Spurs) fan will think they can break the top 2.
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    Post by fcb Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:13 pm

    Juve will be back eventually. You can't just write off Ajax either. Same for Porto in Portugal, they'll have challengers. And Bayern may have spent a lot of money, but domestically Werder will always be up there from now on, and Schalke also have a lot of money.
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    Post by The Pröfessör Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:15 pm

    we'll finish in the top 3.

    Henry is a legend and will be missed but he was no longer the most important player in our squad - cesc fabregas is.

    If we bring in the right players( experienced striker + a goal scoring midfielder) and with the likes of RVP, cesc , eboue etc improving everytime we'll have a far better season than the last two.
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:16 pm

    kas wrote:Juve will be back eventually. You can't just write off Ajax either. Same for Porto in Portugal, they'll have challengers. And Bayern may have spent a lot of money, but domestically Werder will always be up there from now on, and Schalke also have a lot of money.

    Ajax ?

    No.

    Porto were run close this year but always looked favourites.

    Bayern have signed Ribery and Toni - Werder can concentrate on trying to hold on to Diego, Naldo and Klose.

    Schalke ?

    Laughing

    They've just lost Lincoln to Galatasary - from one pretender to another.
    DD
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    Post by DD Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:21 pm

    Bayern will keep their stronghold on the Bundesliga. And always will. Only werder could challenge them anything resembling longterm, but they're busier trying to hold on to their players.

    Ajax however, could make a comeback this year - PSV are really hurt by the loss of Alex (and perhaps other players), and on paper, Ajax have the better squad. Ajax also has tons more money than PSV. AZ has its own sugardaddy, and even Feyenoord could make a dent in the top 3 this year.
    The Dutch league is not down and out. Yet.

    Unlike the French league, which is a lost case really - Lyon till infinity.
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    Post by Tweesus Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:34 pm

    ballack wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:We played most of the last season without Henry AND RVP and we managed just fine ok

    So you'd be happy with another season finishing fourth with less than 70 points with the closest you get to a trophy being a loss to another top four reserve side in the Carling Cup final?


    You thought Chelsea's lineup in the Carling Cup final was their reserve one?

    I think not
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    Post by SuperMario Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:42 pm

    DD wrote:
    Ajax however, could make a comeback this year - PSV are really hurt by the loss of Alex (and perhaps other players), and on paper, Ajax have the better squad. Ajax also has tons more money than PSV. AZ has its own sugardaddy, and even Feyenoord could make a dent in the top 3 this year.
    I'ld go even further PSV is most vulnarable. Despite doing well in the CL, they made huge operational losses each season, they had to make up for that by selling assets (like a parking lot, they've nothing left to sell) & players. Furthermore their youth teams are noway near as good as Ajax', Feyenoord's and AZ's, so they're more dependent on succesful signings. AZ don't need to generate money because they have a Roman. With the same results as PSV (league, europe) Ajax & Feyenoord could generate far more money.

    If PSV f@ck up 1 season they're in deep $h!t, the other clubs can afford that.


    Last edited by on Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:46 pm; edited 2 times in total
    lrdsucksgoats
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    Post by lrdsucksgoats Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:42 pm

    Tweedle wrote:
    ballack wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:We played most of the last season without Henry AND RVP and we managed just fine ok

    So you'd be happy with another season finishing fourth with less than 70 points with the closest you get to a trophy being a loss to another top four reserve side in the Carling Cup final?


    You thought Chelsea's lineup in the Carling Cup final was their reserve one?

    I think not

    Irrelevant - would you be happy with another season of finishing 4th on less than seventy points with the closest thing you get to a trophy being runner-up in the Carling Cup?

    'Just fine' is what you called that.


    Last edited by on Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Tweesus
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    Post by Tweesus Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:47 pm

    ballack wrote:


    Irrelevant - would you be happy with another season of finishing 4th on less than forty points with the closest thing you get to a trophy being runner-up in the Carling Cup?

    'Just fine' is what you called that.

    If we finished on less than forty points we'd be fighting for relegation saints Wink

    Fourth would be good enough to be honest, I think that our sights have to be lowered a bit now that a lot of teams lower than us in the EPL have a lot of money to spend.

    Its likely Liverpool will make big improvements this summer, although if they get Torres then I'm doubtful they'll improve much in the league tbh. 4th and a run in all 3 cups would be decent enough, coming fourth, winning the FA cup/Carling cup or say getting to the semis of the CL would be a good season
    lrdsucksgoats
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    Post by lrdsucksgoats Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:57 pm

    Tweedle wrote:
    ballack wrote:


    Irrelevant - would you be happy with another season of finishing 4th on less than forty points with the closest thing you get to a trophy being runner-up in the Carling Cup?

    'Just fine' is what you called that.

    If we finished on less than forty points we'd be fighting for relegation saints Wink

    More editing of my post by the Liverpool-Arsenal complex...

    Fourth would be good enough to be honest, I think that our sights have to be lowered a bit now that a lot of teams lower than us in the EPL have a lot of money to spend.

    You have the same money as Spurs, your nearest rival for the final CL spot. West Ham, Man U and Chelsea have more money than you. Everyone else is equal to or below.

    Its likely Liverpool will make big improvements this summer, although if they get Torres then I'm doubtful they'll improve much in the league tbh.

    There's no evidence yet that any of the clubs that have been taken over recently have the 50, 80, 100 million to spend on transfers that have been cited in the press. So you are preparing your excuses before the season has started and those excuses are nonsense.

    Wenger's got you wrapped around his little finger in PR terms...

    4th and a run in all 3 cups would be decent enough, coming fourth, winning the FA cup/Carling cup or say getting to the semis of the CL would be a good season

    What about what happened this season? Got nowhere in the CL, nowhere in any domestic cup except the joke one, and finished 4th after a season being completely off the pace? Would that be 'just fine'?
    SuperMario
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    Post by SuperMario Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:03 pm

    jonathan de guzman wrote:Arsenal

    St. Totteringham day will be April 19th this season.

    ST. TOTTERINGHAM DAY is the day in the season when Tottenham can no longer finish above Arsenal in the league. It is of course a moveable feast, and usually marked by the exchange of banknotes around the country, as Spurs-supporting mates face up to the fact that once again their start-of-season optimism has cost them dear.

    St Totteringham Day dates last decade (decisive match(es) mentioned below date):

    1997 April 9th
    Sheffield Wednesday - Spuds 2-1

    1998 March 28th
    Arsenal - Sheffield Wednesday 1-0
    Crystal Palace - Spuds 1-3

    1999 April 6th
    Arsenal - Blackburn 1-0

    2000 April 16th
    Leeds United - Arsenal 0-4

    2001 April 17th
    Spuds - Chelsea 0-3

    2002 March 18th
    Spuds - Charlton 0-1

    2003 March 24th
    Bolton Wanderers - Spuds 1-0

    2004 March 13th
    Blackburn - Arsenal 0-3

    2005 April 2nd
    Arsenal - Norwich City 4-1

    2006 May 7th

    What an amazing day! What an amazing week. Arsenal started the week seven points behind Tottenham. Last week their fans sang “are you watching Arsenal? As they celebrated what they believed would be their entry into the Champions league. Now they are condemned to the obscure back routes of Channel 5. Apparently Jol intends to sue as he was not aware that 4th place was decided on who was best over 38 games.

    Meanwhile Wenger told anyone who would listen, possibly a greater number than those who believed him, that Arsenal could still win fourth place. Indeed he had every confidence that the Hammers would beat Spurs, even though seven days later the Irons would play in the cup final.

    Then at about noon before the final games were to be played news broke that Spurs were trying to get the game called off due to alleged food poisoning. Gunner’s fans hit the phones, and websites, convinced it was a plot by Spurs to get an advantage by playing the game later in the week.

    They need not have worried; by 1: 20 pm Spurs were told they had to play. After all Jol firmly believes that no game should be held up for minor ailments, and a touch of the squits is not a head injury. After all “Play Play Play” was Jol’s dictum, perhaps like Blair’s “education, education, education” a triple emphasis on words evokes a curse. Instant karma perhaps?

    Relieved to hear that Spurs would not be able to escape their fate I set off for Highbury.

    Coming out of Arsenal station was chaos, as the Police made fans walk through a narrow corridor for hundreds of yards before being let out for a ticket check. No ticket and you were sent away. As soon as that ordeal was over it was a mad rush for programmes. A guy in front of me bought £60 worth, mind you that that was only twelve. But this was no rip off, the final programme is excellent.

    For a moment I thought I was in Japan, everyone was photographing everyone and everything. As if the act of photographing could preserve the spirit of Highbury for ever.

    Once in the ground I discovered every seat had an “I was there T shirt”. Even the away fans got them. Sheer class, and it turned the ground into a gargantuan living red and white banner.

    The atmosphere was amazing, Arsenal fans were determined to give the ground a rousing send off, but more than that, they now believed fourth place was possible. Surely Tottenham always Cr@p it when the chips are down, or was it lasagne?

    Even though expectations were high, the game itself, and events at Upton Park, far exceeded them. I can’t remember a more dramatic occasion, apart from the Anderlecht game in 1970. Even when we won leagues at Highbury it was usually down to us only, at least in my lifetime. Now we had to follow two games.

    When Pires scored on seven minutes, and the news of an early West Ham goal came through (or at least fans thought so) the crowd gave out an almighty roar, which in the middle of Arsenal conceded the first of two sloppy goals. Arsenal had been ahead for no more than two minutes. Worse was yet to come on 33 minutes Arsenal conceded one of their worst goals of the season. Lehmann did not organise a wall, and stood at the far post as the ball curled and bobbled in at the near. It was utter incompetence. The crowd were stunned, it was not going to the script. Wigan were putting Arsenal under pressure. Could it get worse?

    However Captain Henry was having none of it, and within two minutes had the equaliser in the net. Wigan battled on, but when the match resumed after half time they rarely got a look in. On 56 minutes Wigan made a defensive error that ended their chances of a result. A slack back pass was seized on by Henry, the keeper made an excellent attempt to win the ball, but Thierry evaded him and the pursuing defenders to send the ball home. Three – two and now Arsenal were in charge.

    Meanwhile Spurs had equalised, and Sherringham had missed a penalty, what a surprise. Henry completed his hat trick with a penalty, and kissed the sacred turf. Hansen and co decided that meant Henry is leaving. I am not so sure, why was Thierry laughing and cheering. Why did he talk about we and us and how great it was that we had put one over Spurs? Why did he talk about we still need to get through the qualifiers next season? Whatever the reason it was a magic moment, the last hat trick at Highbury, scored by the greatest player ever to wear an Arsenal shirt.

    Now news of West Ham’s second goal filtered through. “Are you watching Tottenham” but that was not the only chant, Bergkamp wonderland was sung at the loudest ever, Rocky was remembered, as was Paddy. Arsene was cheered to the rafters every time he stepped on to the technical area. One again the crowd loved Freddy, as the "scum down the lane won feck all again, as Campbell had won the double". "Que Sera Sera, what will be will be, for we are off to gay Paree, Que Sera Sera."

    Clearly victory was safe at Highbury, but could West Ham hold on? The game finished, and the crowd and players waited for the news. Within seconds a thousand tranny men declared it was over. The crowd went mad, so did Arsene, Henry, and the team. It was amazing – it eclipsed the closing ceremony – nothing could be better.

    This was as good as it gets. St Totteringham day had come late, some feared it would never arrive, but arrive it had, and it was the sweetest one of all.

    (by Boris Meller Arsenal Times)

    2007 April 21st

    2008 April 19th
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    Post by Tweesus Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:37 pm

    ballack wrote:

    You have the same money as Spurs, your nearest rival for the final CL spot. West Ham, Man U and Chelsea have more money than you. Everyone else is equal to or below.

    Newcastle will have more to spend than us.

    Just you watch, I bet we actually have a net spend in the minuses by the end of the summer

    What about what happened this season? Got nowhere in the CL, nowhere in any domestic cup except the joke one, and finished 4th after a season being completely off the pace? Would that be 'just fine'?

    Yes
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    Post by Ricardo Jol Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:38 pm

    Spurs of course!
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    Post by shazlx Sun Jun 24, 2007 9:05 pm

    I think Spurs could challege for 4th but like most situations certain factors have to be in their favour:

    1. Injuries - for the past to years Arsenal have had many injuries which cannot be attributed to mere luck considering they seem to be the same injuries reoccurring again. For this reason it means this situation can occur again (but it can also be resolved).

    Spurs will have to keep their main players injury free for 90% of the season. King, Zakora, Berbatov, Keane, Jenas (basically the 'spine' must have an injury free season.

    2. Signings - Wenger does not buy a decent replacement for Henry and instead chooses to buy someone for the future. (To challenge for the tile Arsenal will need to sign someone more than decent and a new winger and some other reinforcements.)

    Spurs need to resolve the left hand side and buy some decent cover for the starting XI.

    3. Cup runs - It will help Spurs to get knocked out of the Cups as early as possible and play the least amount of games. This will prevent injuries and burnout from the players.

    In contrast, Spurs must hope that Arsenal have extended cup runs to distract them from the league campaign.

    4. Goalkeeper - Lehman must be in his erratic form causing confusion to the defense.

    Suprs must buy a competent goalkeeper - preferably someone who isn't in the bottom 3 of keepers in the PL.

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