Oranje Thread

blutgraetsche wrote: Axing RVN wasn't exactly what I would call a step in the right direction though...

That's putting it very mildly. I don't know WTF he's thinking. And Ruud's carreer is hardly finished.
The idea is to phase Huntelaar into the first XI slowly, by rotating him and Ruud and when reaching the Euros Huntelaar and Ruud should both be able to lead the line. Obviously Huntelaar will be the topscorer for the years after that, but WTF is Marco thinking by axing Ruud now!? I want to give his mug a hell of a punch.

Marco had cold feet and fucked with the formula, but he's not rational either. He makes mistakes and blames others. If he doesn't like the look of a player, or their cars in Boulah's case, he'll drop them. His ego is too big, that's why he'll never be a great international manager. Certainly not playing ugly football for Oranje. I think h emight be a succesful league coach though - he has a plan and guts.

But why is he dropping two highly valuable members of the squad? Van Bommel and Ruud! For no other reason than his ego. Oranje can barely contain his, there's no place for others.

@Distinguished Dutchman
surely this is the squqd just for the friendly against ireland where the result is really not that important nd a gd opportunity for huntelaar nd rvn can b brought back in for the qualifiers?

Keano Is God wrote:@Distinguished Dutchman
surely this is the squqd just for the friendly against ireland where the result is really not that important nd a gd opportunity for huntelaar nd rvn can b brought back in for the qualifiers?[/u]

It should be, but MvB said that RvN and MarkvB won't be used again in the near future.

me>holland

everyone>tom

but seriously gettin rid of rvn nd van bommel cld b gd, especially if Huntelaar lives up to hes rep nd as for van bommel there r plenty of class dutch midfielders

Ballack wrote:me>holland

you=ballsack=idiot.

daniel lochtman>matt

Keano Is God wrote:but seriously gettin rid of rvn nd van bommel cld b gd, especially if Huntelaar lives up to hes rep nd as for van bommel there r plenty of class dutch midfielders

You won't win anything with a U21 team. And Huntelaar could still learn a lot from seniors like RVN, it definitely wouldn't hurt at least.

SpartaR wrote:

Ballack wrote:me>holland

you=ballsack=idiot.

me>sparta rotterdam (the club)

im sure he cld learn lots from rvn nd im not arguin tht he shld hav being left out but u can win things with of U21 if their gd enough but i dont know enough bout the dutch U21 team to comment but if the others r as gd as huntelaar then the team cant b bad

Ballack wrote:

SpartaR wrote:

Ballack wrote:me>holland

you=ballsack=idiot.

me>sparta rotterdam (the club)

Prove it.

SpartaR wrote:

Ballack wrote:

SpartaR wrote:

Ballack wrote:me>holland

you=ballsack=idiot.

me>sparta rotterdam (the club)

Prove it.

i can put the ball in the back of the net...

tom thts a lie
y do u think we shove u in goal?

Ballack wrote:

SpartaR wrote:

Ballack wrote:

SpartaR wrote:

Ballack wrote:me>holland

you=ballsack=idiot.

me>sparta rotterdam (the club)

Prove it.

i can put the ball in the back of the net...

Sparta Rotterdam - Blackburn Rovers 1-0
Sparta Rotterdam - Sheffield United 1-1
Sparta Rotterdam - PPSC 19-0

Try again.

Keano Is God wrote:im sure he cld learn lots from rvn nd im not arguin tht he shld hav being left out but u can win things with of U21 if their gd enough but i dont know enough bout the dutch U21 team to comment but if the others r as gd as huntelaar then the team cant b bad

What I meant with the U21 comment is that you need experienced players in your squad if you want to win major competitions. I definitely didn't try to say that youth is a bad thing, it isn't (look at the German national team, for example). Young players are hungry, they still have to prove themselves etc. It's all about finding the right balance, that's all I am saying.

And axing a player like RVN, who can always score important goals for you, for apparently no good reason, is problemtaic to say at least. This will increase the pressure on Huntelaar as well, not the best thing for a youngster. Simply unnecessary IMHO.

SpartaR wrote:

Ballack wrote:

SpartaR wrote:

Ballack wrote:

SpartaR wrote:

Ballack wrote:me>holland

you=ballsack=idiot.

me>sparta rotterdam (the club)

Prove it.

i can put the ball in the back of the net...

Sparta Rotterdam - Blackburn Rovers 1-0
Sparta Rotterdam - Sheffield United 1-1
Sparta Rotterdam - PPSC 19-0

Try again.

tom 15-0 barcelona, tom 120-0 scotland tom 1700-0 germany


Try again

Ballack wrote:

SpartaR wrote:

Ballack wrote:

SpartaR wrote:

Ballack wrote:

SpartaR wrote:

Ballack wrote:me>holland

you=ballsack=idiot.

me>sparta rotterdam (the club)

Prove it.

i can put the ball in the back of the net...

Sparta Rotterdam - Blackburn Rovers 1-0
Sparta Rotterdam - Sheffield United 1-1
Sparta Rotterdam - PPSC 19-0

Try again.

tom 15-0 barcelona, tom 120-0 scotland tom 1700-0 germany


Try again

You must have been playing a lot PES.

SpartaR wrote:

Ballack wrote:

SpartaR wrote:

Ballack wrote:

SpartaR wrote:

Ballack wrote:

SpartaR wrote:

Ballack wrote:me>holland

you=ballsack=idiot.

me>sparta rotterdam (the club)

Prove it.

i can put the ball in the back of the net...

Sparta Rotterdam - Blackburn Rovers 1-0
Sparta Rotterdam - Sheffield United 1-1
Sparta Rotterdam - PPSC 19-0

Try again.

tom 15-0 barcelona, tom 120-0 scotland tom 1700-0 germany


Try again

You must have been playing a lot PES.

this is real life

Keano Is God wrote:im sure he cld learn lots from rvn nd im not arguin tht he shld hav being left out but u can win things with of U21 if their gd enough but i dont know enough bout the dutch U21 team to comment but if the others r as gd as huntelaar then the team cant b bad

as i said earlier rvn should still play for hollan i just dont think tht desicion shld be a reason to fire him

Why would we need van Nistelrooy or Makaay when we've got Vennegoor of Hesselink ?!

After all the whining Marco did that we needed "Lange Jan" as a crowbar, how many times did he use him for that purpose ?

Second of all : the overall conclusion (even by San Marco himself) is that we lacked physical power in midfield (ghee, strange when you play leighweight midget Sneijder there....) and now he's dropping the only player (Van Bommel) who actually does fit that mold.

....it's beyond comprehension for me. But it's no surprise that it's the non Ajax players that are being made scapegoats....

The more I talk about it the worse I feel.

Axing those two is simply madness. Both have plenty to contribute: Ruud would be the first striker in more than 99% of world teams FFS. And CL-winning Van Bommel, how old is he, 27-28?

Marco is a cretinous international coach. If this isn't classified as fucking with the formula, I don't know what is. Madness, and it looks like he's purposely sabotaging any chance.
His ego dictates the choices, not his rationality. Now we have no balance in the team, no leaders, and no mentors. And a squad full of unexperienced youngsters.

Way to go.

Marco Mussolini just lost the plot. Kicking out all the players that are not your ideal son-in-law. Just becasue they can argue with him?

Yesterday at Studio Voetbal you could see that van Bommel was arguing with Cruyff about the tactics we should used during Euro2004. Many people believe that because of his comments he is out the team. i mean i cant be his quality, otherwise Heitinga and Sneijder would be out as well.

Also a funny thing is the selection of Hunterlaar. Only 8 weeks ago he surprised the whole nation by not taking him to Germany. Now, 8 weeks later, he is our nr 1 striker I dont know what Klaas did during these weeks that made him so much better then before the wc? Or does Marco sees his mistake he made, and he should taken him to the wc?

Van Bommel was terrible at the WC so I don't understant the fuss about him. He was certainly not better than Sneijder (who was bad as well)

Why the hell he played 3 of the 4 matches with Van Bommel???? He played awful but still had three starters. Before the WC he wasn't a fan of Van Bommel and now he threw him also out of the squad... that is quite strange...

Ruud never really fit in this team although he had a 50+% goal scoring record under Van Basten! There was not enough time to test KJH before the WC but now he has two years to become the Dutch first striker so it is obvious he wasn't taken in the WC squad.


My questions for Van Basten are:

Why was Van Bommel "überhaupt" in squad?

Why Sneijder and not Cocu as a DMF?

Why Kuyt in the centre and not Vennegoor of Hesselink? The dutch played many long high balls because the midfield was too weak. In such a team you need a TALL and physical striker.

IMO he had to choose at the WC for a PSV axis of Ooijer, Cocu and Vennegoor. PSV was BY FAR the best team in the last two years, the three players know each other very well and they had succes with this axis in international games with PSV... Also, VEnnegoor is very useful with standard situations and on international level these are very important

Why he didn't take Huntelaar sooner in the squad. I mean at the time he played for Heerenveen he already deserved a call up for the Dutch team. Why didn't VB test him already in december????

Reading all this,

is it fair to say Van Basten is the new Sven Goran Erikkson?

Personally, regarding Huntelaar- it seems clear that Vb wanted to give him the chance to play in the under 21 tournament to gain full experience and play every game rather than rush him straight after into the main squad where Vnistelrooy, Kuyt, Vennegoor, Babel (???) were already likely to start upfront...

the kid is young, he had plenty more years in him, I think Vb did the right thing not taking him to the WC and allowing him to develop in the u21's first.

I imagine a massive future for Jan, and Vb is aware he must be treated with care. Now with a fresh summer behind him is the right time.

THe difference between Sven and VB are:

Sven put in ALL the big names, VB throw out ALL the big names

Sven makes compromises, Van Basten hardly makes compromises

Sven likes the old players, VB likes the Young players

SVen has absolutely no clue in what he is doing; van basten has a vision but he is sometimes sticks too much to that

Sven had a bad relation with the press; VB and the press are a unity

the players didn't have confident in Sven; the Dutch players are walking almost blindly behind the master...

Sven is an experienced coach; Van Basten is young! (only coached two years the reserves of Ajax as an assistant)

Sven did it for the money; Van Basten didn't do it for the money

Lodewijks

Greene - Stam - Opdam - Emanuelson

Seedorf - D. de Zeeuw - Van Bommel - Davids

Van Nistelrooy - Makaay


I'd like to take on Marco's team

No throw out Emanuelson he is a VB prospect....

Put in Zenden again as left back

But seriously.
Sneijder had a worser tournament as vBommel and still he is one of the first players in squad.(all round spuad). He's deluded.

Kromkamp>Greene>Tiendalli>Jaliens>deJong>Heitinga.

SpartaR wrote:But seriously.
Sneijder had a worser tournament as vBommel and still he is one of the first players in squad.(all round spuad). He's deluded.

Kromkamp>Greene>Tiendalli>Jaliens>deJong>Heitinga.

All three "starting" midfieldplayers had a horrible tournament.

Cocu : didn't have the energy after a long and good season for PSV. This was obvious after the first match, he shouldn't have gotten a start after that.

Sneijder : whether you rate the lad or not, to play him as a defensive/controlling midfieldplayer is *madness*...he never had a real chance to prove himself that way.
(his supposed strength : corners and free kicks were a disaster, so another one that should not have been played....and certainly not in the position he was used at)

Van Bommel : had to do it all by himself, no else was "battling" in midfield and on top of that he knew the manager had little faith in him. In my opinion out of these three he had the best tournament, but nowhere near decent.

So who brought Marco to change our luck in midfield : the half recovered Van der Vaart who, this became clear after his first appearence, was nowhere near match fitness. Another one who should not have gotten any playing time after that !

Why on earth didn't Marco use Landzaat and Maduro more ? Or Kuyt in midfield or even Heitinga...it was clear for all to see we were losing the battle (and tournament) in midfield.

God what a difference Davids would/could have made, how on earth can you not include him in the squad ?! Davids is a typical "tournament-player" who can lead the battle when that's required....


And while were at it : all during the qualifying campaign Kuyt was playing as right winger and it brought balance to the team. RVP is a much better winger, but in the system van Basten played it unbalanced the team !

Kuyt will help out midfield, will make space for other players coming down the right flank. Now we had two static and isolated wingers, which in turn ensured our sole striker was isolated too...and no space to run into for forward going backs/midfielders.

So many mistakes....and *no*, I repeat : *no* improvement whatsoever.

We should at least have learned something from this wasted tournament, but van Basten keeps on making the same mistakes over and over again.

He's now allienated Davids, Van Bommel and Van Nistelrooy : three players who could still be very valuable to Oranje.

Not to select them is not a choice I would make, but one I can (barely) live with....to publically damage them : wtf ?!

Why was that necessary ? It was uncalled for, unprofessional and stupid to be honest.

I'VE HAD IT : I WANT VAN BASTEN OUT !!!

NOW !