Real Madrid C.F. 2007/08

@Torrente



Like I said, if you don't want Ballack (I may be desperate for him to leave, but not that desperate...), you should look for a similar player elsewhere. Gago is actually a good shot, but you need more quality alternatives for the middle IMHO, not just for the wings.

Forget Diego though, at least for this season, we won't sell, and he won't want to leave anyway. He is actually even more happy to be here now, now that his old buddy Carlos Alberto has joined us.

blutgraetsche wrote:@Torrente



Like I said, if you don't want Ballack (I may be desperate for him to leave, but not that desperate...), you should look for a similar player elsewhere. Gago is actually a good shot, but you need more quality alternatives for the middle IMHO, not just for the wings.

Forget Diego though, at least for this season, we won't sell, and he won't want to leave anyway. He is actually even more happy to be here now, now that his old buddy Carlos Alberto has joined us.

I actually wouldn't mind if we got Ballack. I just found it funny the way you built up the player we needed by basically describing all of Ballack's attributes. Not saying you're wrong about it though, because we could definitely use a player like him. If we get him for less than 15 million Euros, I would be in favor of his signing but I don't think it's worth it to risk any more than that. He could be a huge hit with us but he could also flop since he's almost 31 and he would have to adapt to yet another league.

But I don't know enough about Diego to say if he would push for a transfer if we went for him. Normally I would guess most players would if they were in his position, since it would be a great opportunity.

I'm confident Quaresma would push for a transfer though, since he's already stated that he would like to take the next step in his career.

I actually wonder what your opinion is regarding Ballack if we went for him. Would he push for a transfer or would he remain loyal to Chelsea? It's also worth noting that if we were to sign him, we would definitely offer him significantly less than what he earns at Chelsea.

It all depends on how he and Mourinho get along. Normally, I expect Ballack to stay and prove his critics wrong (and his family has just settled in, a very important aspect), but Mourinho has repeatedly attacked him publically in the last few months, and he doesn't seem to be too fond of him anymore either.

If you'd show serious interest, I'd expect him to talk with Mourinho about his future at the club, and if Mourinho would give a negative response (to put it mildly), I could see him leave regardless.

Moving to Spain, and playing for Real (or Barcelona) is / was actually a dream of his for a long time, and he would have moved to Real a while ago under different circumstances.

I personally find it hard to believe that there isn't a single all-round midfielder in the world (someone "like" Ballack, like Schuster wants) available for Madrid to buy. Maybe if Calderon and Pedja stopped dreaming about impossible signings and actually did some scouting, the Madrid squad would be in better shape.

I remember a recent post here saying the word is getting out amongst players that despite Madrid's reputation and history, the club is actually internally a shambles in the way it's run, and that's why it's not so appealing anymore to sign for them...this summer has once again made that sound like it's true.

supermadrid wrote:i saw some of the game on a steam and there is no need to be mad or worried. and we shouldnt say some players are not good enough for Real because of this game because like they said we are still a fair bit from being fit. the important thing in these games is that we can see some sort of organisation and i did see that.

I only watch the first half of the match on Real Madrid TV and Real Madrid even though they looked behind Hannover in terms of Fitness, created FAR more chances than Hannover, and these weren't just chances, clear chances, and the way Higuain was missing chances was ridiculous. The worst thing about the team was the Cicinho.....Ramos...Canna....Torres back four, they didn't play well together, a lot of times in the half Ramos and Casillas had to save the team.

That's true for the first half, but in the second half, Hannover dominated the match, and Real didn't have that many clear chances at all.

Not suprised to hear that Schuster spent large amount of today's training on one on one situations and finishing

Higuain in particular missed a couple of very easy chances. Promising player, but he needs to become more composed in front of the goal.

I see Roncero outdid himself this morning

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=369462

“SIN CEREBRO Y SIN BANDAS” (NO BRAINS AND NO FLANKS) screamed the As.com editorial penned by the apoplexy-prone Tomás Roncero after the German rout. Roncero may be an extreme case – many Madridistas distance themselves from the self-confessed ultra-right wing journalist’s political views – but the man who often sports an expression akin to one whose finger has gone through the toilet paper does speak for a certain sector of fans.

Roncero styles himself as a rabble-rouser who stirs up the guts rather than attempts to appeal to the head, although he does have a tendency towards flatulent belly-aching that has led to other pundits complaining that he suffers from frequent attacks of verbal diarrhoea. “If I was a genie with a lamp...I’d have called every one of the thousands of Madridistas [who were about to watch the game] and said ‘Don’t do it!...Go out for tapas but for God’s sake don’t watch it!’” his column began.

“In the AS office we could see the first shipwreck of the Schuster era...and it was cruel. If the recently spawned Schuster project had a lawyer he would claim that the kids have only been training for a week and that Hannover96 are about to start the Bundesliga; that Robinho, Gago, Marcelo and Baptista were missing; that when Robben and Drenthe are signed and Van Nistelrooy returns it’ll all be different, that Schuster needs time”, continued the Madrileño, before stabbing a banderilla at a young bull.

“If Higuaín (superb in theory yet failing to make the grade in practice) had had his sights honed in properly we could have gone off at half time leading with his hat-trick...none of these [excuses] hides the reality that the patience of Madrid fans is about to break its banks like the Thames.” Roncero’s stream of invective seemed set to dynamite what Schuster would say, and, effectively, the German tactician did see his side as still in the process of gelling.

Bernd Schuster admitted in the post-match press conference that there were mitigating factors – but also made no bones about being unhappy with his men’s marksmanship. “We had four clear one-on-one scoring chances but let the rival off. I’m happy with the movements, but not the shooting, but we have to rate the team when it’s physically up to scratch. We had a long and tough week and this was a predictable outcome", explained the German.

"It’s neither a good nor a deserved result, but it’s far too early to draw any important conclusions. There’s no need to go crazy. We didn’t come here to lose 3-0 but we did let opportunities slip too much in the first half. The team that converted their chances won", he added. "You could see the difference in physical condition between ne team and the other. We knew it would be that way as they start their league this Saturday."

Roncero nevertheless wants to see urgent action to bring both flying Dutchmen Royston Drenthe and Arjen Robben to the Bernabéu post-haste...”so that Madrid can have a dignified and competitive left flank” and also “keep Baptista because the lack of goal shown at the AWD Arena will burn an ulcer in our stomachs if we see La Bestia celebrating his goals alongside Ronaldo... and Kaká!” With the Merengue board considering the possibility of selling a second Brazilian in a row to the Rossoneri, Roncero is livid.

He lashed out at Schuster for his recent statements, zeroing in on the tactician with a vengeance...and a certain dose of paranoia. “Schuster has been trying to get Mijatovic to bring the Milan man in for the past week...or somebody similar. Ballack’s name has been mentioned, but he really means Cesc...somebody that organises and leads. Masybe that’s why he deliberately fielded De la Red with Diarra behind, knowing that without Guti or Gago the feeling of brainless football would be total...and it was.”

Harsh words, but Roncero hits out further at Schuster’s supposed over-reliance on the marketplace rather than the existing squad. “Schuster has launched a tremendous dependence on the market ("we need Robben now", "Kaká will play for Madrid this year or next"), but he needs to seek solutions without turning to the market”, argued the diehard Real Madrid fan.

“Higuaín was played in his place – as a second striker in the hole – but that left Saviola, our supposed summer star signing, on the bench. Balboa was switched from right to left in front of a sinking Torres who didn’t work away from his natural side (the right)...Ramos was also not playing in his number 2 role and Pepe came on half-asleep and made a mistake that led to the 2-0”, he slammed, although Roncero did save one name: “Casillas flew like an angel to stop the cannonballs from the German tanks.”

Yet more names were thrown on the bonfire as Roncero continued to cremate players. “Cannavaro repeated his errors from last season and Cicinho showed poor physical shape that contrasted sharply with his claims for a starting place on the right highway”, he jabbed. “Without flanks Madrid were a gang...and without a brain...very bad”, he concluded sulkily. Roncero's piece was a typical all-out attack that his paper fortunately balanced a little with another article entitled “It was a misleading match”.

This was less of an appeal to the emotions than Roncero’s mala leche (literally bad milk, but meaning bad tempered) swipe at Schuster and most of the Real Madrid team. Higuaín was reprimanded “he had three clear chances in the first half, one of which came after dribbling the keeper, but he does have the ability of taking on the goalie if he’s played up front [rather than in midfield]”, but the blame was shared out more than in Roncero’s view. “Saviola, Balboa and Bueno also missed a clear chance apiece.”

As to the question of flanks with more bite than bark, the much-maligned Cicinho was rescued from the scrapheap of Roncero’s complete dismissal. “In the current squad only Cicinho has a manifest attacking slant, although he’s still out of shape and can’t show his best side [but] Roberto Carlos was hardly a colossal defender either”, the analysis argues before having a look at Schuster’s strategy.

“[This] Madrid man-marks rival corners. There’s no zonal system but three players are pulled back to clean out the box. In attack the corners are either kicked right in or taken short as an alternative twist and the six-yard box is kept at boiling point.” A 4-1-4-1 system was seen as Schuster’s answer to give a fluid forward exit to the ball if the organising midfielder (against Hanover96 Ruben de la Red) is shut down by the opponent “ and it’s something that we’ll see a lot if things get ugly.”

De la Red was given a low mark as “incapable of imposing Schuster’s style...and forcing Diarra, Cannavaro and Sergio Ramos to play a long-ball game that was defused by a rival in better physical shape.” Although Gago or Guti could add more than the younger, less experienced local boy, this does reactivate the debate over Kaká as being the final piece that would link everything together to perfection at the White House.

Some more observations about False Madrid. This I saw on World Soccer, and they go along with what I said about this new unprofessional coach, Schuster:

REAL DEALS?
01/08/07
The latest comments from Bernd Schuster suggest that Real Madrid’s new coach is learning quickly about the club’s ferocious internal politics.

In his latest news conference, the German made all the right noises about signing Kaka and Arjen Robben. But he had let the cat out of the bag a few days earlier when he was quoted by German TV station ARD as saying that Michael Ballack would be a perfect signing. Now Schuster has denied making the comments about Ballack.

The problem Schuster faces is that he has more central defenders than he knows what to do with, thanks to the summer arrivals of Pepe and Christoph Metzelder. But what he really needs is a ball-playing central midfielder, like Ballack, and a right-sided midfielder to replace David Beckham.

Yet Real president Ramon Calderon is still persisting with seeing through his election pledges to sign Kaka, Robben and Arsenal midfielder Cesc, irrespective of whether they would benefit the team. Calderon was elected with a pledge to sign the trio, and is desperate to save face with the club’s socios who voted him in last year and who will be called upon to re-elect him in three years time.

The ownership structure of Real Madrid and Barcelona, where the club members own the club and elect the president every four years, is often held up as a preferable alternative to the market free-for-all that is currently engulfing English football. But, as Bernd Schuster is only just discovering, Calderon’s increasingly desperate attempts to make a ‘trophy’ signing in the summer transfer market have also shown the down side of the Spanish model.

--Gavin Hamilton (World Soccer)

--------------------------

One question: Can Calderon actually be voted out before his three years in office?

What's Real Madrid C.F.'s best current line-up?!

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:Some more observations about False Madrid. This I saw on World Soccer, and they go along with what I said about this new unprofessional coach, Schuster:

REAL DEALS?
01/08/07
The latest comments from Bernd Schuster suggest that Real Madrid’s new coach is learning quickly about the club’s ferocious internal politics.

In his latest news conference, the German made all the right noises about signing Kaka and Arjen Robben. But he had let the cat out of the bag a few days earlier when he was quoted by German TV station ARD as saying that Michael Ballack would be a perfect signing. Now Schuster has denied making the comments about Ballack.

The problem Schuster faces is that he has more central defenders than he knows what to do with, thanks to the summer arrivals of Pepe and Christoph Metzelder. But what he really needs is a ball-playing central midfielder, like Ballack, and a right-sided midfielder to replace David Beckham.

Yet Real president Ramon Calderon is still persisting with seeing through his election pledges to sign Kaka, Robben and Arsenal midfielder Cesc, irrespective of whether they would benefit the team. Calderon was elected with a pledge to sign the trio, and is desperate to save face with the club’s socios who voted him in last year and who will be called upon to re-elect him in three years time.

The ownership structure of Real Madrid and Barcelona, where the club members own the club and elect the president every four years, is often held up as a preferable alternative to the market free-for-all that is currently engulfing English football. But, as Bernd Schuster is only just discovering, Calderon’s increasingly desperate attempts to make a ‘trophy’ signing in the summer transfer market have also shown the down side of the Spanish model.

--Gavin Hamilton (World Soccer)

--------------------------

One question: Can Calderon actually be voted out before his three years in office?

Don't want to be defending Madrid, but this is a case of a problem created completely by the papers - Schuster's original comments were indeed "i want a player ***like*** Ballack", and he used Ballack's attributes as an example of the type of player he was looking for. I'm not denying there may have been a subtle attempt by Schuster to unsettle Ballack and see if he responds like Deco has done. And then yesterday he simply reiterated and clarified those comments - so he never said explicitly that he wants Ballack, and he never went back on that.

kas wrote:

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:Some more observations about False Madrid. This I saw on World Soccer, and they go along with what I said about this new unprofessional coach, Schuster:

REAL DEALS?
01/08/07
The latest comments from Bernd Schuster suggest that Real Madrid’s new coach is learning quickly about the club’s ferocious internal politics.

In his latest news conference, the German made all the right noises about signing Kaka and Arjen Robben. But he had let the cat out of the bag a few days earlier when he was quoted by German TV station ARD as saying that Michael Ballack would be a perfect signing. Now Schuster has denied making the comments about Ballack.

The problem Schuster faces is that he has more central defenders than he knows what to do with, thanks to the summer arrivals of Pepe and Christoph Metzelder. But what he really needs is a ball-playing central midfielder, like Ballack, and a right-sided midfielder to replace David Beckham.

Yet Real president Ramon Calderon is still persisting with seeing through his election pledges to sign Kaka, Robben and Arsenal midfielder Cesc, irrespective of whether they would benefit the team. Calderon was elected with a pledge to sign the trio, and is desperate to save face with the club’s socios who voted him in last year and who will be called upon to re-elect him in three years time.

The ownership structure of Real Madrid and Barcelona, where the club members own the club and elect the president every four years, is often held up as a preferable alternative to the market free-for-all that is currently engulfing English football. But, as Bernd Schuster is only just discovering, Calderon’s increasingly desperate attempts to make a ‘trophy’ signing in the summer transfer market have also shown the down side of the Spanish model.

--Gavin Hamilton (World Soccer)

--------------------------

One question: Can Calderon actually be voted out before his three years in office?

Don't want to be defending Madrid, but this is a case of a problem created completely by the papers - Schuster's original comments were indeed "i want a player ***like*** Ballack", and he used Ballack's attributes as an example of the type of player he was looking for. I'm not denying there may have been a subtle attempt by Schuster to unsettle Ballack and see if he responds like Deco has done. And then yesterday he simply reiterated and clarified those comments - so he never said explicitly that he wants Ballack, and he never went back on that.

This is what Blut said in the Ballack thread:

blut wrote:Well, I actually saw the interview myself when he spoke about Ballack, and he definitely said that he (or a player like him) would be ideal for Real, to link the midfield and attack.

Schuster DEFINITELY said that things like "sooner or later Kaka will come" etc. "we have a suitcase full of money" in a tone that is the hallmark of that odious Calderon.

It is remarkable how quickly Schuster has internalized Caldron's rhetoric. Like I said earlier in this thread, he must keep his paymaster happy. I can't think of any coaches of big clubs who talk with such contempt for other clubs. Can you imagine Rijkaard or Ranieri or even Mourinho say something similar?

Whatever, Calderon has to pander to his constituency. But how that trickles down is remarkable.

Just my opinion of things, and hopefully not too harsh.

He did say "Kaka will play in Madrid this season or next", but I was only talking about the Ballack comments - and of that it's clear Schuster said he wants someone like him.

But anyway, f@ck the details...we all know Madrid are scum, let's move on

@Forza

If there is enough opposition, a president could feel the pressure and resign, like Florentino did but he cannot be voted out. Look we all know that you detest Real Madrid but it is really getting very tired. Please take your anti-Madrid propaganda to a different thread. We are here to discuss things that are of concern to us. Not the affairs of other clubs are who are so insecure that they spend more time worrying about what managers from other clubs are saying as opposed to their own team.

Peruvian Souljah wrote:

Peruvian Souljah wrote:What's Real Madrid C.F.'s best current line-up?!

It's hard to say because we are not done signing players this summer but so far I would say right at this very moment:

--------------------Casillas

S. Ramos----Pepe-----Metzelder----Torres

Balboa-------Diarra-----Guti-------Robinho

-----------Higuain-----v.Nistelrooy

It is obvious that we still lack a top quality winger. Balboa won't be in the first eleven for the first meaningful match (i.e. Spanish Super Cup) We have to sign either a right winger or a left winger with Robinho moving to the right side. Some would argue we need two wingers so that Robinho can play as a withdrawn forward with lots of freedom. Others believe we also need a better organizer to replace Guti. But at the minimum we need one world class winger.

It will be something like this based on current plahyers
Ramos-----Metz---Cana----Torres

--------------Diarra----Gago-------

------------------Guti-------------------

--------Higuain-----------------Robinho

---------------------Ruud-------------------

IMO.

I'm shocked, having just read an article in Diario Sport that actually made sense and hit the jugular.


"Schuster, frente a la realidad


Mientras se relame con el último catálogo de pintura contemporánea de la Tate Gallery o el MOMA neoyorquino, a Fabio Capello se le escapa una mueca sardónica: el entrenador que proclamó el fallecimiento del "toque-toque" y llevó a su equipo de gladiadores contragolpeadores a la conquista liguera observa ahora que su sustituto ha resucitado al muerto y pretende, con los mismos gladiadores, jugar al primer toque y erigirse en abanderado del "jogo bonito", invento del marketing que hasta la fecha no ha ganado nada (para quien tenga dudas, recuerden que el Barça del doblete se coronó a partir del hormigón armado en las líneas traseras y no desde las "frivolités").

Como concepto intelectual, la propuesta de Schuster es de aplauso. Jugar de forma plástica, primando la posesión del balón y las combinaciones veloces, pretender el triunfo desde el toque y el estilo ofensivo, es una de las más nobles opciones que puede presentar un equipo grande. En un fútbol abarrotado de propuestas avaras y egoístas que lo fían todo al resultado sin importar los medios a emplear, cualquier entrenador que plantee juego de ataque abierto y buen trato de balón merece ser felicitado y preservado cual especie en vías de extinción. El juego de toque no es patrimonio exclusivo de nadie, así que enhorabuena a Schuster por lo que se propone hacer, aunque en Madrid algunos ya carguen las escopetas.

Otra cuestión es si podrá llevar a cabo lo que plantea. Su plantilla es desequilibrio puro: hay exceso de laterales diestros y de mediapuntas intrascendentes, pero no hay un lateral zurdo de relevancia, ni extremos solventes (a la espera de Robben) ni un líder auténtico en el centro del campo. Quienes abrían el campo (Beckham y Roberto Carlos) no han sido sustituidos, pero Guti y Raúl se erigen, un año más, en los ejes de un equipo aquejado del "mal del péndulo": a los mismos que Capello pedía encerrarse en la jaula de atrás, ahora Schuster les exige toque, posesión y campo abierto. Excesiva oscilación como para creer que la transición resultará sencilla.

Hace demasiado tiempo que Guti mostró ser un artista capaz de reventar un partido en veinte minutos, pero también su imposibilidad para jugar de forma regular todos los partidos desde el pitido inicial. Darle a Guti la manija del Madrid es equivocarse y en ese error han caído todos los últimos entrenadores sin remedio. Como darle a Raúl la titularidad de segundo delantero, en realidad un eufemismo para que el capitán corra como un poseso por doquier sin centrarse en ninguna labor concreta, como si huyera de un perseguidor imaginario. Guti y Raúl, principio y final de un cambio imprescindible que el Madrid nunca afronta."


I know that this guy isn't saying anything groundbreaking, but he did make some sensible criticisms and didn't spend the whole article talking about how Madrid is evil, live 99% of Sport articles do.

He's definitely right about Guti. We can't pin our hopes in him this season because he's too inconsistent despite all the talent he has. We've seen this time and time again and I doubt Guti will change at age 30.

Jaime wrote:

Peruvian Souljah wrote:

Peruvian Souljah wrote:What's Real Madrid C.F.'s best current line-up?!

It's hard to say because we are not done signing players this summer but so far I would say right at this very moment:

--------------------Casillas

S. Ramos----Pepe-----Metzelder----Torres

Balboa -------Diarra-----Guti-------Robinho

-----------Higuain-----v.Nistelrooy

Like they say, sometimes a picture can paint a thousand words. But sometimes a word can paint a thousand pictures. The horror that Balboa would be started at this point brings pictures to my mind that I can't even describe. The horror, the horror...

Some rumours about VdV rumours I heard today.

Dark Savante wrote:It will be something like this based on current plahyers
Ramos-----Metz---Cana----Torres

--------------Diarra----Gago-------

------------------Guti-------------------

--------Higuain-----------------Robinho

---------------------Ruud-------------------

IMO.

I like this lineup, even if Guti is an inconsistent bastart but we have nothing bettter at the moment.

The problem is that we would not have a lot of wing play with this lineup. Schuster has emphasized the need to constantly use the wings this season.

Since 1888 wrote:Some rumours about VdV rumours I heard today.

There's also rumors about Nasri and Lucho. I'm not sure which one I would choose out of the three.

Since 1888 wrote:Some rumours about VdV rumours I heard today.

Great news!!!!

Why are we going to spend 25M EUR on Lucho when we have Diarra, Gago, Guti, Emerson.

x 100.

Instead we should first just give the 31M EUR and buy Robben, and use that 25M to buy Quaresma.

All this talk about Nasri and how he will be signed now. Erm i wouldn't mind if he's the real deal.

But the number of youth players that look like that will be in our squad is frightening! We need a good mixture of youth and experience, and we should flog the useless castilla players ASAP like Balboa, who we recently gave an extension

As usual there is no effective planning by the board, going around buying any Tom, Dick and Harry. Instead of solving the problem areas of the squad: LB, RM, LM. Before luxury buys like Nasri.

Not really, you really want him and Robben in the same team? I think 1 injury prone but very gifted player is enough for a club. 2 of them is just folly.

I take it you're talking about Quaresma, doesn't look likely as Pedja and co don't have enough brain cells.

Quaresma would play on the right wing, and him and Robben would interchange during the match, like Figo and Solari use to.

robert wrote:Not really, you really want him and Robben in the same team? I think 1 injury prone but very gifted player is enough for a club. 2 of them is just folly.

Is Quaresma THAT injury prone? I don't remember him being injured so often.

Either way, I think we should only buy either Robben or Quaresma anyway, and I prefer Quaresma. Cheaper, not made of glass, and can play in both wings better than Robben.

I don't think he was talking about Injury phrone about RQ. It would be a great buy, but i don't see our board thinking the same

TM wrote:

Since 1888 wrote:Some rumours about VdV rumours I heard today.

Great news!!!!

Sorry folks when 1st opened this window this is what I saw, when I read TM's post above mine. Now I open it again and there is a $h!t load more. I don't know why my browser didn't load everything else the 1st time.

I was talking about Robben and VDV being the injury prone ones not Queresma.