should ballack leave chelsea

blutgraetsche wrote:

Dark Savante wrote:why didnt you wanted him to join us.

Because 90% of the United fans would not have appreciated him either, despite the fact that he was the key player of a Leverkusen side that kicked them (and two other EPL "big four" sides) out of the CL a while ago.

I'm very sceptical about German players moving to the EPL in general .

Why? You shouldnt be- Klinsmann forged a great career despite only being there for a couple of seasons, Freund (despite not being the greatest player in the World too) was also well loved by the Spurs supporters. Hamman was much apprecited player at Newcastle/Liverpool in particular.

Argies and Germans are actually well represented in England in the past, and supporters idolise them if they show one thing: DESIRE and determination to play. The fact that Klinsi was, for example, a supremely gifted player helped, but generally as long as a player shows they are willing to work hard then the supporters take to them whether they are playing poorly or not.

Ballack has not shown this at Chelsea. Factor in his 130K a weeks wages and it shouldnt be a suprise he's hardly much loved. So he's been Cr@p- at least he could make the effort to roll his sleeves up and dig in. Perhaps its never been part of his game, but watching him stroll around the pitch being average isnt going to make him an idol in the Klinsmann/Freund/Hamman role, despite the fact that Im sure you'd love to heap the reason on this wave of ANTI-ballackness on those naughty racist English supporters who HATE all things German

Raifael wrote:
Has Ballack spoken about a potential departure ?

Unfortunately not. Expect him to say that he'll stay and prove his critics wrong, or some Cr@p like that.

The only chance of him leaving: He and Mourinho don't get along at all anymore. Hope Mourinho continues to attack him publically.

@Pele

Tottenham (and Liverpool) have a history of German players, you know damn well that the situation there would be different, compared to United (or Chelsea even; Huth doesn't count). But even Klinsmann had a hard time at the beginning, and had to take a lot of Cr@p from his own supporters.

I said that I'm sceptical about German players moving to the EPL, and I have good reason for it, I didn't say that I'm absolutely against it.

blutgraetsche wrote:

Football Genius wrote:
The only load of Cr@p is your Mannshafts Captain, hes proven to be nothing but a lathargic ineffective, who gets outshone by a remorseless shooting machine in Lampard.

Lets face it your Golden Boy, aint much.

Let's face it, your are absolutely clueless. As if you have the slightest clue about his career prior to Chelsea, about his international matches, actually anything non-EPL related that qualifies you to even make a comment on this.

Not quite so hard to turn it on in your woefully second rate league.

The first time hes been brought into a league where consistancy at the highest level counts and he flops...

And no, i never saw him play for Levenkussen or Munich in the champions League , apart from a couple of spectacular goals, i've rarely seen him dominate the midfield in the way you'd have us all believe.

Scholes is twice the footballer, mentally, tactically and technically.

Quite frankly the best move for him is to return to his 'vaderland' where you lot can all shove your saure wursts in his anal valve.

It did take Lehmann a long time to receive any recognition from non-Arsenal (and indeed many Arsenal) fans. Not until his heroics in the CL was he seen as a competent goalkeeper in this country. Because of his eccentric nature he was openly mocked by the 'experts' on MOTD and other journalists despite going unbeaten in his first season.

Ballack is a huge flop in the premiership should of stuck at bayern where he was the man . Shevchenko i think will proove himself this year not ballack though

Sheffield gunner wrote:It did take Lehmann a long time to receive any recognition from non-Arsenal (and indeed many Arsenal) fans. Not until his heroics in the CL was he seen as a competent goalkeeper in this country. Because of his eccentric nature he was openly mocked by the 'experts' on MOTD and other journalists despite going unbeaten in his first season.

Yeah but lehmann was a clown who kept making f@ck ups, in the cl he made so many f@ck ups. then last year or the season before he had an amazing season and people praised him for it, the only people who consider the nationality of the player seems to be the germans themselves, ballack has just been a big flop, big waste of money, his attitude seems poor and he seems lazy why the hell would anyone take to him

blutgraetsche wrote:@Pele

Tottenham (and Liverpool) have a history of German players, you know damn well that the situation there would be different, compared to United (or Chelsea even; Huth doesn't count). But even Klinsmann had a hard time at the beginning, and had to take a lot of Cr@p from his own supporters.

I said that I'm sceptical about German players moving to the EPL, and I have good reason for it, I didn't say that I'm absolutely against it.

Im just making the point that being GERMAN isnt the reason why people havent warmed to Ballack, because frankly nationality means jack $h!t historically, as proven by past German (and Argie) players in the EPL (by the way, nobody gave Klinsmann a hard time in terms of his ability, he was pilloried in the press for his tendency to fall over a lot; the good boy then mocked himself with THAT celebration and instantly won over the nation: a German with a SENSE OF HUMOUR . In reality though, "hard time" hardly account for his arrival, if anything he was seen as a superstar player of the time and alongside the likes of Bergkamp was one of the first true international class players to move to the EPL at the time. So he came with a big reputation and of course its often tough for players to live up to them, but he did).

Ballack hasnt flourished because of one thing, in my opinion - he isnt the workhorse midfielder that Mourinho is a fan of. If he isnt producing at the attacking end of the pitch, he's pretty much useless. This, for instance, is the difference between Ballack and, say, Beckham. When Beckham was having a difficult time of it in Spain being played out of position and lacking form, at least the Madrid fans knew they'd get plenty of workrate and determination out of Beckham, hence why he was always a fan favourite. WUM's aside, Im sure Ballack will show his form whether at Chelsea or Madrid eventually, but until the tactics suit him and things start going right, the old boy is correctly showing determination to get on with it off the pitch in his interviews (I'd love him to come up with the excuses that Otto has tried to reel off for him though for comedy value!), now he just needs to show more determination on the pitch too.

Football Genius wrote:
Not quite so hard to turn it on in your woefully second rate league.

How do you explain his performances in the CL then? If you want to slag something off, don't make yourself look like an idiot at least.

The first time hes been brought into a league where consistancy at the highest level counts and he flops...

The "highest level" is the CL genius, not the EPL. There is quality football beyond your glorious EPL, I know that might be hard to grasp for you, being told by the Mudroch media every day that you are the best in everything. Time for a reality check.

And no, i never saw him play for Levenkussen or Munich in the champions League , apart from a couple of spectacular goals, i've rarely seen him dominate the midfield in the way you'd have us all believe.

Well, apparently you didn't, because not just his goals were crucial for the Leverkusen 2002 CL campaign, but especially his creative intepretation of the DM position. He did boss the midfield for Leverkusen, for Bayern, and especially for Germany umpteen times.

Scholes is twice the footballer, mentally, tactically and technically.

You can put your retarded player to player comparisons...

Quite frankly the best move for him is to return to his 'vaderland' where
you lot can all shove your saure wursts in his anal valve.

..exactly there. Add a little curry to spice it up while you are at it.

I vote no because staying weakens Chelsea and potentially weakens Germany (if Ballack gets pissed off, or doesn't play)

A 442 with Essien and Ballack in the centre and Drogba and Sheva ahead of them should be a dream combo. Go figure.

L.r.d wrote:

Sheffield gunner wrote:It did take Lehmann a long time to receive any recognition from non-Arsenal (and indeed many Arsenal) fans. Not until his heroics in the CL was he seen as a competent goalkeeper in this country. Because of his eccentric nature he was openly mocked by the 'experts' on MOTD and other journalists despite going unbeaten in his first season.

Yeah but lehmann was a clown who kept making f@ck ups, in the cl he made so many f@ck ups. then last year or the season before he had an amazing season and people praised him for it, the only people who consider the nationality of the player seems to be the germans themselves, ballack has just been a big flop, big waste of money, his attitude seems poor and he seems lazy why the hell would anyone take to him

I agree, i couldn't careless if he was german, french, english.... whatever, i'm judging his success by his performances, and hes looked substandard.

blutgraetsche wrote:

Football Genius wrote:
Not quite so hard to turn it on in your woefully second rate league.

How do you explain his performances in the CL then? If you want to slag something off, don't make yourself look like an idiot at least.

The first time hes been brought into a league where consistancy at the highest level counts and he flops...

The "highest level" is the CL genius, not the EPL. There is quality football beyond your glorious EPL, I know that might be hard to grasp for you, being told by the Mudroch media every day that you are the best in everything. Time for a reality check.

And no, i never saw him play for Levenkussen or Munich in the champions League , apart from a couple of spectacular goals, i've rarely seen him dominate the midfield in the way you'd have us all believe.

Well, apparently you didn't, because not just his goals were crucial for the Leverkusen 2002 CL campaign, but especially his creative intepretation of the DM position. He did boss the midfield for Leverkusen, for Bayern, and especially for Germany umpteen times.

Scholes is twice the footballer, mentally, tactically and technically.

You can put your retarded player to player comparisons...

Quite frankly the best move for him is to return to his 'vaderland' where
you lot can all shove your saure wursts in his anal valve.

..exactly there. Add a little curry to spice it up while you are at it.

Your living in cookoo land sunshine, dang... i forgot he tore up the Champions League aswell as the EPL ... no wait a minute he didn't he performed just as wank there too.

Once again who gives a flying f@ck what he didn't in the crappy Bundeliga, he moved to truely test himself in a difficult league, and hes so far flopped miserably.

Theres nothing retarded in saying Scholes is a better footballer than Ballack, perhaps only retarded through your eyes because you cannot accept it.

@Pele

Since you Brits love stats, some German TV channel analysed a couple of Chelsea CL matches last season, and Ballack actually was one of those players who ran the longest distances on the pitch. Ballack does work hard for the team, it just looks like he doesn't, due to his "arrogant" (according to some Chelsea exec) way to run.

The best example for this was the match against Sweden in the WC last year. The scene when Ballack helped out in the defence, and denied some Sweden forward an excellent chance. Or in 2002, when he scored the winning goal against South Korea, and runied a chance right after at the other end of the pitch. He got booked for it, and missed the final.

It's ridiculous to claim that he is a selfish or lazy player even. He accepted to play in the DM for die Mannschaft, for example, and therefore make it much harder for him to score goals, because he could help the team better there.

And has he ever complained about his situation at Chelsea? He did attack the English press for writing bullshit about his injury at the end of the season, he didn't even attack his coach, despite him slagging him off publically.

Football Genius wrote:
Your living in cookoo land sunshine, dang... i forgot he tore up the Champions League aswell as the EPL ... no wait a minute he didn't he performed just as wank there too.

Once again who gives a flying f@ck what he didn't in the crappy Bundeliga, he moved to truely test himself in a difficult league, and hes so far flopped miserably.

Theres nothing retarded in saying Scholes is a better footballer than Ballack, perhaps only retarded through your eyes because you cannot accept it.

It is always retarded, because comparing different players, with different roles for their teams, just makes you look like an ignorant idiot. That's why I didn't do you a favour by slagging off Scholes, since I don't want to be an idiot. Simple.

He performed "wank" by taking a rather unknown team nobody had on their list to the CL final? By taking one of the worst German national teams to the WC final?

Keep digging that hole, you're doing an excellent job.

Ballack played poorly last season so in that sense he was a flop. From his international form though he is clearly a good player.

People like "Football Genius" are making typically uneducated comments about players and leagues they know nothing about though. If they had restricted their vitriol for his Chelsea form then fine, but to then call him Cr@p elsewhere and admit they've hardly watched any of his other games is ludicrous.

STOP. MAKING. UNEDUCATED. JUDGEMENTS.

Solidus wrote:

STOP. MAKING. UNEDUCATED. JUDGEMENTS.

You hoping that catches on huh?

This point really has taken a drastic swing from the main idea. I like Ballack. I have his name on my shirt, and so if he leaves it'll continue my great tradition of getting players names on my shirt who then leave (Wise, Hasselbaink, Gudjohnsen, Del Horno, Ballack). He wasn't good last season. That wasnt the formations fault. Lampard was on the left of a diamond midfield and still managed 21 goals. Ballack was at the point of the diamond and really should have been getting goals and assists. Yes, he scored a few, but it wasnt the Ballack that everyone expected.
And most people here have hit the nail on the head when concerning his work ethic. He seems to not bother, or not be in the mood at times. The Prem is all about hard work, and grit and determination, and at times he just seemed that he wasnt bothered. And then at the end of the season where he went and got an operation and missed 4-6 crucial games just summed up his lethargic season.

L.r.d wrote:

Solidus wrote:

STOP. MAKING. UNEDUCATED. JUDGEMENTS.

You hoping that catches on huh?

It's not rocket science that if you don't know anything about a player/league you don't make a judgment on him/it but you see posters doing it every single day.

Ballack is a top class player. Anybody who suggests otherwise is just.....well, wrong.

Why is that some players are accorded a years adjustment to the EPL whilst others are just written off straight away?

Anyway, it's not as if Ballack was truly awful; He performed at a good standard - just not mind blowing.

Still, if Ballack isn't considerably better this year I will be very surprised.

blutgraetsche wrote:He performed "wank" by taking a rather unknown team nobody had on their list to the CL final? By taking one of the worst German national teams to the WC final?

Keep digging that hole, you're doing an excellent job.

In fairness...these 2 events were over 5 years ago now.

AFAIK he hasn't lived up to that kind of form for a couple of years. Obviously he wasn't exactly tearing it up this season and a lot of the German posters said he didn't have a particularly great year with Bayern the season he left (he was booed by his own fans I believe). He didn't have an electric WC06 either.

He was booed by the Bayern fans because it was clear that he'll leave them at the end of the season. Bayern seriously believed that they'd play better without him, that's why they didn't even replace him. The result could be seen last year, when Bayern didn't even qualify for the CL after a decade. At the end of last season, everybody realised how important Ballack was all of a sudden, the fans, the media, and especially the Bayern board.

Ballack scored a ton of important goals for Bayern, won the double twice in a row with them, as the first Bundesliga club ever. His decision to play in the DM for die Mannschaft, and stabilise the initially shaky defence, was crucial for the (relatively) successful WC 2006 campaign.

Ballack is one of those players who are really appreciated once they have left.

Well thats one thing we can agree on Blut, Chelsea will really appreciate him once hes gone, as they'll be saving 130k a week for an old broken wheel.

@Blut

Why cant you just admit that he has been terrible. He came in with a big reputation, on even bigger wages into a back to back championship winning team and totally flopped.

He probably wouldnt get as much stick, if like Sheva he had already proved himself in a top league. Since he has played in a top league he has been distinctively average. Which suggests that he maybe not as good as many make out.

This season will be massive for him, if he plays very well then I am certain everyone will acknowlegd that he is a great player, but he has done nothing in the prem so far to suggest that.

Ps we lost to Leverkusen on away goals, Ballack scored at OT, but he wasnt anything special. Neuville and Barthez did the most damage to united. He had one good season internationaly when nobody knew about him, but everyone knows about him, he doesnt shine as brightly.

Rez, you must be on a wind up.


I admitted repeatedly that he had a disappointing season, and that he is mostly to blame for that himself!

I commented on the rest already, and I' ve been repeating myself too often anyway.

you had to feel sorry for ballack last season though (money aside)

as a midfielder his strengths are reading the game from deep, spraying the ball about the pitch and making quick breaks forward to score, much in the same vein as gerrard. put both of them higher up the pitch as ballack was at the head of the diamond last year and they become lost

at chelsea he constantly had maka / essien / mikel / diarra behind him doing the job he was accustomed to doing. there was simply no room in the side for him to influence play as he normally does. chelsea played with no wingers, a lumbering laughing stock in shevchenko and a battering ram up front with lampard in a free role. it was therefore impossible to achieve any fluency in a setup like this

I don't really blame ballack at all for last season TBH. everything about how mourinho used him was totally wrong. it's the same reason I hate seeing gerrard played just off a striker. you simply have to play both of them in deeper roles to get the best out of them

COTR wrote:
you simply have to play both of them in deeper roles to get the best out of them

Spot on, well said.

COTR wrote:you had to feel sorry for ballack last season though (money aside)

as a midfielder his strengths are reading the game from deep, spraying the ball about the pitch and making quick breaks forward to score, much in the same vein as gerrard. put both of them higher up the pitch as ballack was at the head of the diamond last year and they become lost

at chelsea he constantly had maka / essien / mikel / diarra behind him doing the job he was accustomed to doing. there was simply no room in the side for him to influence play as he normally does. chelsea played with no wingers, a lumbering laughing stock in shevchenko and a battering ram up front with lampard in a free role. it was therefore impossible to achieve any fluency in a setup like this

I don't really blame ballack at all for last season TBH. everything about how mourinho used him was totally wrong. it's the same reason I hate seeing gerrard played just off a striker. you simply have to play both of them in deeper roles to get the best out of them

It doesn't matter where you are played you still have to show effort and commitment and Ballack showed neither.

Solidus wrote:

COTR wrote:you had to feel sorry for ballack last season though (money aside)

as a midfielder his strengths are reading the game from deep, spraying the ball about the pitch and making quick breaks forward to score, much in the same vein as gerrard. put both of them higher up the pitch as ballack was at the head of the diamond last year and they become lost

at chelsea he constantly had maka / essien / mikel / diarra behind him doing the job he was accustomed to doing. there was simply no room in the side for him to influence play as he normally does. chelsea played with no wingers, a lumbering laughing stock in shevchenko and a battering ram up front with lampard in a free role. it was therefore impossible to achieve any fluency in a setup like this

I don't really blame ballack at all for last season TBH. everything about how mourinho used him was totally wrong. it's the same reason I hate seeing gerrard played just off a striker. you simply have to play both of them in deeper roles to get the best out of them

It doesn't matter where you are played you still have to show effort and commitment and Ballack showed neither.

Well that's a questionable comment

he has never exactly been an all action type of player has he ??

he seemed to be trying hard enough anytime I watched, however the game would just often pass him by as shevchenko ran into yet another defender or a flump long ball cleared his head to land at drogba's feet who invariably shot.

I think he would be a massive success at real, probably taking gago's spot. if they tried to play him higher up as chelsea have done though they will be faced with the same problems

players like ballack and gerrard, opposite to what the public probably believe are not flexible players. they have to just stick to what they are good at

Ballack should leave Chelsea, because Lampards there. Its basically impossible to see Ballack playing to his full potential when you have Flumps playing in the "free role" coming from the wings.

If Mourinho changed his tactic for once and played ballack and Essien in the middle, there would be no excuse for Ballack at all, but I am sure you WILL than see his true potential in the EPL.

But will Mourinho "risk" dumping Lampard and losing the 21 odd goals, just to see his team playing with more fluency? I don't think so, coz Mourinho is a result oriented manager....

So....Basically Ballack should only stay, if Flump's sold...

L.r.d wrote:

Solidus wrote:

STOP. MAKING. UNEDUCATED. JUDGEMENTS.

You hoping that catches on huh?

It's good - but it'll never take EMB by storm the way the UNIT craze did!

Ballack chose the cash - and now he is paying for it. I agree that being "forced" to play with Scholes at Man Utd - who has a great record of adapting his game to accomodate the arrival of players - would've been a a lot easier for Ballack's rep' than playing with a selfish lump like Lampard.

Anyone who tries to make out that he's been overhyped down the years prior to Chelsea is clearly talking out of their ar$e. Chelsea were a bad team for him tactically... wrong decision for him as far as his "footballing" quality of life goes - it was always going to end in tears, what with Lampard (Chelsea's biggest shirt seller and Media darling) already in his preferred AMF place - Mourinho preferring more physically gifted workhorses like Essien to play in the DMF/CMF positions.... Ballack was never going to feel in the most comfortable situation. Would be a shame if he leaves England branded as a flop - because he was never in the right environment settle properly on the pitch - but that sadly, is what he is.