It Must Be So Frustrating Supporting 'Pool

I feel sorry for you Pool fans, you want the league so much - and I would like to see you win it (if you are the best team over a season), but for God's sake, your manager is completely barmy!

You now have a team that could push for the title, but this bizarre rotation policy of his is losing you a lot of points!

I hope it'll come good come the end of the season, but I really don't know how he thought playing Torres last night but not in the previous prem match was a good decision...That guy should be playing every match!

I honestly hope Rafa shows me my I'm not a manager and he is lol - I'll be pleased for him if he wins the title this season.

My thoughts exactly.

He must play his strongest team (if he knows it) for as many if not all (again if possible) in the league, he should then look to substitute any players if he wishes to rest them.

However no player should need *that* much rest at this stage of the season. Especially if your only around 23!

I was going to start a Rafa bashing thread of my own, but this will suffice.

The last two league games have demonstrated to us all what tournament Rafa still regards as the key concern for Liverpool.

He seems to think that you can get by in the EPL playing a sub-standard squad. You can't. Nowadays its a very tough league and you need to play the best team you have at your disposal for every game if possible. I could argue a better case for rotating in the ECL

Tweedle wrote:I was going to start a Rafa bashing thread of my own, but this will suffice.

The last two league games have demonstrated to us all what tournament Rafa still regards as the key concern for Liverpool.

He seems to think that you can get by in the EPL playing a sub-standard squad. You can't. Nowadays its a very tough league and you need to play the best team you have at your disposal for every game if possible. I could argue a better case for rotating in the ECL

Gowwan then

Well, the Porto game was the toughest of your group and despite playing shocking, you still managed to win! The other two teams in your group are Marseille and Besitas, as you well know.

Marseille are about Toulouse quality but with a couple of star players. The away game will be tough nut you should be able to get a home win. In that game I wouldn't go for a full rotation but I think a Crouch-Kuyt partnership would work well against them. You could also stick Leivia in midfield without too much of a worry. I think Besiktas aren't very good. You should get results verses them both home and away. Saw Spurs play them last season in the UEFA cup and they looked very poor and were easily beaten 2-0 if I remember correctly. Porto at home could be tough so you should consider playing full strength for that one.

There you go.

Tweedle wrote:Well, the Porto game was the toughest of your group and despite playing shocking, you still managed to win! The other two teams in your group are Marseille and Besitas, as you well know.

Marseille are about Toulouse quality but with a couple of star players. The away game will be tough nut you should be able to get a home win. In that game I wouldn't go for a full rotation but I think a Crouch-Kuyt partnership would work well against them. You could also stick Leivia in midfield without too much of a worry. I think Besiktas aren't very good. You should get results verses them both home and away. Saw Spurs play them last season in the UEFA cup and they looked very poor and were easily beaten 2-0 if I remember correctly. Porto at home could be tough so you should consider playing full strength for that one.

There you go.

wait. which game did i watch? i saw liverpool struggle to a draw.

ok tweeds made an error but a draw away against your biggest rival is a good result

Yes we nicked a fortuitous draw....

However the fundamental point is, we want the league title, so allocate the fucking resources (players) correctly to delivering this goal...

Football Genius wrote:Yes we nicked a fortuitous draw....

However the fundamental point is, we want the league title, so allocate the fucking resources (players) correctly to delivering this goal...

So you agree?

Its also a farce that you didn't manage to get a top class winger over the summer. I identified this time and time again as the principal area that needed investment but all Rafa did was sign Benayoun; a nice technically astute player but hardly 'top class'; and Babel; a player that has potential but lacks end product and who's best position isn't even as a winger!

I agree that his team selection in the last two premiership outings have been to put it nicely, dubious.

I don't agree with the Babel point, i think his pace and instinct to run at defenders has added something quite different to what we had, and i also feel Benayoun, although no Ronaldo has brought consistancy with his vision, something that Garcia for all his wonders never did bring to the table.

The right wing is of concern for me, but thats primarly because i'm not a huge fan of Pennant, because his is so wasteful at times with the ball in good positions.

To be fair we brought in quite a number of new players this summer, and lost quite a number also, so had we of bought a right winger ASWELL, then it could very well of been one step forward and two steps back.

Football Genius wrote:

I don't agree with the Babel point, i think his pace and instinct to run at defenders has added something quite different to what we had

Well, yes, in the same way that Smith has brought some much needed aggression to Newcastle's midfield. At the end of the day though he's just potential. He shouldn't be a starter for a top four team IMO. He still has severe limitations

and i also feel Benayoun, although no Ronaldo has brought consistancy with his vision, something that Garcia for all his wonders never did bring to the table.

I agree. I actually like Benayoun, although he's no Simao, which is the point that I'm getting at.

The right wing is of concern for me, but thats primarly because i'm not a huge fan of Pennant, because his is so wasteful at times with the ball in good positions.

You can play Benayoun on the right. I'd agree its a concern. He sometimes plays good crosses but his short range passing is particularly poor

To be fair we brought in quite a number of new players this summer, and lost quite a number also, so had we of bought a right winger ASWELL, then it could very well of been one step forward and two steps back.

You're a lot better than you were! I'm just not sure you're quite good enough yet to get the title, although maybe with the squad depth you now have, you'll show the durability and resilience that you've seemed to lack in the past

Its looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree with Babel

His decision making isn't refined, but then thats what you expect from talented youngsters (which you should know all about)

We've tried purchasing the finish article before (morientes) and look how that panned out, theres no guarantee that because a person is proven in one country that they will make the grade here e.g Shevchenko, so there is an element of risk attached to any transfer from abroad young or established.

He'll come good, his energy and pace has already pushed teams back creating problems for there defence, allowing more space through the middle for the likes of Gerrard to play in.

So he has added a nice balance, irrespective of what position you think he should play in, he is playing on the left, and hes not doing that bad of a job.

I expect Riise however to come back into the fold on the left wing, with Babel to make impacts as a sub.

I feel sorry for you Pool fans, you want the league so much - and I would like to see you win it (if you are the best team over a season), but for God's sake, your manager is completely barmy!

You now have a team that could push for the title, but this bizarre rotation policy of his is losing you a lot of points!

He only left torres out really so we should have won anyway. I'm hoping this week will teach him a valuable lesson. We are a FAR better team when torres is in it

I hope it'll come good come the end of the season, but I really don't know how he thought playing Torres last night but not in the previous prem match was a good decision...That guy should be playing every match!

It was a strange one as I said above.. it may turn out good for the long term because now benitez will know he will face fierce resistance from supporters if he ever tries to explain why a fit torres is on the bench

I honestly hope Rafa shows me my I'm not a manager and he is lol - I'll be pleased for him if he wins the title this season.

We will challenge right to the end ogf the season, and hopefully go far in the CL as well

Despite what people say he tries to give them both equal priority (see playing a strong team in the league before toulouse and weak one against toulouse) for evidence that he tries to operate the resources against the strength of the opposition. He knew porto was a key game so wanted to make sure we got a result out of it to set up the group and we did

Leaving torres on the bench at the weekend was a horrible mistake but I honestly think he will not be doing it again too often

BOSS: NOBODY IS GUARANTEED A START

Rafael Benitez has insisted there are no guarantees hat-trick hero Fernando Torres will start against Wigan at the weekend.
Torres was the hero for the Reds last night as his first treble for the club secured a place in the fourth round of the Carling Cup, but Benitez wouldn't confirm whether the performance of his record signing will assure him of a place at the JJB Stadium.

"Will he start the next game? We will see. I cannot guarantee anything because I like to see my strikers during the week," said the manager. "We have four strikers and if I say now that he will play, it will be easy for Wigan.

"I am only thinking about my team. Our supporters are very clever, they know that I am trying to do the best for the team.

"Fernando knows why he was left out. It was because of space. I didn't need to explain it too much. All the players want to play in every game.

"If you say to me that Dirk Kuyt is a worse striker or Peter Crouch is a worse striker or Andriy Voronin is a worse striker then I would play Torres every game.

"But because we have very good strikers, I like to choose the strikers for every game and if it is necessary to change I will change.

"I am thinking about the best for my team. I think it was a terrific game for Fernando. But the team worked really hard and it was a very difficult game.

"We knew it could be like that but with the space, Fernando is really dangerous.

"But the rest of the team showed real character as well as Fernando. That is the key for me because you can play with one or two strikers working hard but other players not doing their jobs. But every player did a fantastic job."

He'll start,

I dont buy this "Will he start the next game? We will see. I cannot guarantee anything because I like to see my strikers during the week," said the manager. "We have four strikers and if I say now that he will play, it will be easy for Wigan"

We all know when fit Ronaldo and Rooney will play for Utd, this doesn't make the opposition managers job easier for knowing this, because no matter how they try to stop them it will be a difficult 90minutes for any defender, the same applies with Torres.

Arrggghh! How do you know that you would have won had Torres played? This is such a pointless debate. A team with Babel , Benayoun, Crouch and Kuyt in the starting line-up should easily be able to beat Birmingham at home.

Some 'pool fans logic -
He's scored a hat-trick against the Reading reserves, ergo, he would have done the same had he played against Birmingham.

I'll link back to this post when the other teams start faltering towards the end of the season.

Football Genius wrote:He'll start,

I dont buy this "Will he start the next game? We will see. I cannot guarantee anything because I like to see my strikers during the week," said the manager. "We have four strikers and if I say now that he will play, it will be easy for Wigan"

We all know when fit Ronaldo and Rooney will play for Utd, this doesn't make the opposition managers job easier for knowing this, because no matter how they try to stop them it will be a difficult 90minutes for any defender, the same applies with Torres.

Juego de la Okkas wrote:Arrggghh! How do you know that you would have won had Torres played? This is such a pointless debate. A team with Babel , Benayoun, Crouch and Kuyt in the starting line-up should easily be able to beat Birmingham at home.

Some 'pool fans logic -
He's scored a hat-trick against the Reading reserves, ergo, he would have done the same had he played against Birmingham.

I'll link back to this post when the other teams start faltering towards the end of the season.

Nobody has said 'if he played we would have won'

The point is, he is our most potent striker for scoring goals, so there is a logic in suggesting had he of played 90minutes we MAY have had a better opportunity to win.

Anyway the anger isn't that we expected 3 points and god forbit we draw to Birmingham, the anger is directed at Benitez for not playing his strongest line-up and being complacent about picking up the 3 points.

Football Genius wrote:We all know when fit Ronaldo and Rooney will play for Utd, this doesn't make the opposition managers job easier for knowing this, because no matter how they try to stop them it will be a difficult 90minutes for any defender, the same applies with Torres.

Sir Alex plays his best team possible most of the time. With the exception of the Carling Cup and easier FA Cup matches. It is why they are so successful.

it seems to me its rotation for rotations sake at times, fair enough some players may need to be rested now and then, its just for me the amount of changes at times, especially in midfield and up front before you even take into account forced changes, its almost like the more i change the less teams will be able to prepare to play us, there is too much emphasis on making it difficult for the opposition rather than concentrating on playing well themsleves, which ain't helped by keeping the team from the players until the last min too. Its one thing the opposition not getting wind of your team its a completely different kettle of fish keeping it from your players, not much time to get their heads round specific tactics given the team shape

Juego de la Okkas wrote:Arrggghh! How do you know that you would have won had Torres played? This is such a pointless debate. A team with Babel , Benayoun, Crouch and Kuyt in the starting line-up should easily be able to beat Birmingham at home.

Some 'pool fans logic -
He's scored a hat-trick against the Reading reserves, ergo, he would have done the same had he played against Birmingham.

What a truly ignorant post this is mate

It is not a pointless debate because torres was bought for 21 million to add another dimension to our game, something which he has succeeded magnificiently at doing

The logic is that he makes us a far harder team to defend against becuase of his trickery, movement, pace and power... all characteristicskuyt and voronin do not really have in abundance

We may not have won if torres played but it sure would have given us a far better chance of winning. That is the logic

Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez’s decision to keep Fernando Torres on the substitutes bench, provided Birmingham City ‘a bit of lift’, said the Blues keeper Maik Taylor.

Steve Bruce’s side went on to frustrate the Reds for a goalless draw at Anfield on Saturday with Benitez rueing missed chances at the end of the game.

Taylor told the Birmingham Mail: "It was a bit of surprise that they didn't start with Torres.

"It did give us a bit of lift, he's the main man.''

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:Its one thing the opposition not getting wind of your team its a completely different kettle of fish keeping it from your players, not much time to get their heads round specific tactics given the team shape

Does Rafa strike as a manager who leaves tactics to the last minute?

If you play your strongest line-up every game your team will start playing $h!t when you lose a couple of first-team players. Look at how rubbish Man U were when they had to bring the likes of O'Shea, Fletcher and Richardson into the squad.

Yes,

And look who they've bought to rectify that problem,

Hargreaves, Nani and Anderson.

Rafa is possibly one of the most thorough if not too thorough tacticians in the game.

its a fact the team don't know the side until shortly before the game, if for exampe you have crouch and kuyt up front the whole team philosophy will be v different to that if voronin and torres are up front, just as an example. Not against some rotation just no need just for the sake of it which is what it appears rafa does at times.

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:its a fact the team don't know the side until shortly before the game, if for exampe you have crouch and kuyt up front the whole team philosophy will be v different to that if voronin and torres are up front, just as an example. Not against some rotation just no need just for the sake of it which is what it appears rafa does at times.

rafa is just confusing everyone I believe

we have so many different players it makes it hard for any sort of rythmn to be built up. Untied won the league last season because all the players were understanding each other's movements and runs

If we start one game with sissoko and gerrard and kuyt and voronin up front but the next game it is gerrard and alonso with torres and crouch up front how are we ever going to develop a stable team or team understanding. this is the biggest fault with rafa's rotation IMO. the idea is fine... he just goes way overboard with it to the detriment of the team

COTR wrote:

Juego de la Okkas wrote:Arrggghh! How do you know that you would have won had Torres played? This is such a pointless debate. A team with Babel , Benayoun, Crouch and Kuyt in the starting line-up should easily be able to beat Birmingham at home.

Some 'pool fans logic -
He's scored a hat-trick against the Reading reserves, ergo, he would have done the same had he played against Birmingham.

What a truly ignorant post this is mate

It is not a pointless debate because torres was bought for 21 million to add another dimension to our game, something which he has succeeded magnificiently at doing

The logic is that he makes us a far harder team to defend against becuase of his trickery, movement, pace and power... all characteristicskuyt and voronin do not really have in abundance

We may not have won if torres played but it sure would have given us a far better chance of winning. That is the logic

Rafa brought in the likes of Benayoun and Babel to open tricky defenses á la Luis Garcia.

What your saying is what the Madrid press dubbed 'Torrespendencia' - an over-dependence on the player. The four strikers you've got are completely different types of player. Torres is the type of player you'd use away when you expect to be playing on the counter, whereas IMO Crouch and Kuyt will be used at Anfield when you have alot of the possession and will be using the wingers to open defnces.

COTR wrote:

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:its a fact the team don't know the side until shortly before the game, if for exampe you have crouch and kuyt up front the whole team philosophy will be v different to that if voronin and torres are up front, just as an example. Not against some rotation just no need just for the sake of it which is what it appears rafa does at times.

rafa is just confusing everyone I believe

we have so many different players it makes it hard for any sort of rythmn to be built up. Untied won the league last season because all the players were understanding each other's movements and runs

If we start one game with sissoko and gerrard and kuyt and voronin up front but the next game it is gerrard and alonso with torres and crouch up front how are we ever going to develop a stable team or team understanding. this is the biggest fault with rafa's rotation IMO. the idea is fine... he just goes way overboard with it to the detriment of the team

exactly cotr changing one perhaps 2 players is OK, but the amount he changes is ridculous and going back to my striker example those strikers are all different, so the tactics are different compare that to arsenal last night they still played exactly the same way despite all those changes, its wengers biggest fault in a way still no plan B, at least you have that but nobody knows whats plan a and whats plan b

More hilarious hypocrisy from the Arsenal propagandists - when Liverpool sign a youngster, 'he's just got potential'. When Arsenal sign a youngster 'he'll only get better and better'.



Load of bollocks...

What your saying is what the Madrid press dubbed 'Torrespendencia' - an over-dependence on the player. The four strikers you've got are completely different types of player. Torres is the type of player you'd use away when you expect to be playing on the counter, whereas IMO Crouch and Kuyt will be used at Anfield when you have alot of the possession and will be using the wingers to open defnces.

I'm sorry but I see no reason why this is true

It is the excuse rafa used at the weekend and he was made to look stupid when torres came on and was far more effective than any of the other players

torres can create a bit of magic out of nothing, something the other forwards cannot do. It is this unpredictability that will help us open up defences at home. Kuyt running around the pitch is not going to help our cause much