Non-italians don't watch Serie A

When villarreal had riquelme and forlan and got third place in la liga they were better then fiorentina but at the same time fiorentina were fighting relegation so its hard to compare since villarreal have already reached their peak and trying to get up their again. the difference between juventus and villarreal is mentallity because juventus are still winners and this is whats keeping villarreal back because they are around equal in potential imo.

about thiago i understood that he was set to leave in winter transfer window because ranieri didnt rate him.

about serie a i do think theirs a big lack and defo miss Pirlo as a poster. My problem has always been that i havent had acces to it even though it has always been the league i liked the most. now i can watch more games since i have gotten a faster connection so i gues i will try to comment more.

@ Ze Italians

What I've been effectively trying to say is Valencia=Arsenal=Roma>>>Villarreal>Fiorentina and Roma.

The Villarreal>>Fiorentina and Juve thing was just in jest though because I was a bit bored. Soz.

Having said that, if I wanted to, I could quite easily show thet they are better, at least on form in both domestic and European competitions.

They're squad has been weakened, although they presently sit top of La Liga! They're a small club though and will always be underrated. Gave us a far tougher challenge in the CL two years ago than Juve did though

although none of us wil ever forget the days of italian domination in the 90's

bluenine wrote:I think that attitue will change if you watch some games.

EPL and La Liga have many more 0-0 or 1-0 games than Serie A. And Serie A has more goals than EPL or La Liga consistantly for a few years now. You dutchies need to start watching again.... (I guess it also has to do a lot with the number of dutch players in EPL & La Liga these days).

Like yesterday we had games like:
Genoa 3-2 Udinese
Fiorentina 2-2 Roma
Inter 3-0 Sampdoria
Juve 4-0 Reggina
Lazio 3-1 Cagliari
Palermo 2-1 Milan

All in one matchday!

Have a look at thye number of goals scored in the last 3 seasons, you will find Serie A at the top.

Italian teams have changed, and the negative mentality is long gone.

You lost your virginity before an Italian game? Do tell!

Feygelein wrote:Blue, you know that league better then me, so you are probably right. But you cant deny there are an awful alot of 1-1, 0-0, 2-1 results. Surely that has something to do with quality, But us Dutchies like to see goals..loads of them!!

Like I said I watch a decent amount of football, but I think the Serie A needs to change its attitude to replace an other league for us Dutchies. Allthough I think the low amount f Dutch players has something to do as well.

I always do pick Italian teams at Pro Evo, and lost my virginity before an Italy game. So they always have a special place for me, and you cant call me biased

Well that really looks like a good goal day, problem is that Italian kick-offs are always the same with the Dutch kick offs. So Im usually watching Feyenoord then.

But I think with new stadiums and and a full crowd will make games more appealing for foreigners. I mean if there is a full crowd Italian supporters are way better then English or Spanish...cause you have TIFO just like us

There goes Tweedy again.... Even if I ignore the obvious typo, you just don't get it.

I think what Gigliati was trying to show you (quite intelligently) was that there isn't that much of a difference between Roma and Fiorentina. Just to make it easire for you to understand, let me use EPL examples. The difference between Roma and Fiorentina is about the same as the difference between Liverpool and Arsenal. There exists some on paper, but there is little evidence of it on the field. It wouldn't be wrong of an Arsenal supporter like you to think you are better than Liverpool. Ditto Gigliati thinking Fiorentina are better than Roma.

2005 to 2008 (so far) Fiorentina have notched up 156 points to Roma's 155 in Serie A. That how close these two sides have been. Just to put it in perspective, Inter have 184 and Milan 162. Thats how impressive Fiorentina have been in Serie A of late.

Saying that Villareal is better than Fiorentina is seriously showing your ignorance of Serie A. Sure, they could beat them on their day and there is not too much of a difference, but Villareal haven't been as impressive in the last 2 seasons as Fiorentina. Before that, Villareal were clearly better and Fiorentina were Cr@p.

And Juve more or less = Fiorentina.

Tweedle wrote:@ Ze Italians

What I've been effectively trying to say is Valencia=Arsenal=Roma>>>Villarreal>Fiorentina and Roma.

The Villarreal>>Fiorentina and Juve thing was just in jest though because I was a bit bored. Soz.

Having said that, if I wanted to, I could quite easily show thet they are better, at least on form in both domestic and European competitions.

They're squad has been weakened, although they presently sit top of La Liga! They're a small club though and will always be underrated. Gave us a far tougher challenge in the CL two years ago than Juve did though

Rez wrote:

bluenine wrote:Newcastle have Martins so they are as good as ManU and better than Arsenal

Rez wrote:Arsenal and valencia are better than Juve.

Villareal have Rossi, so are as good as Juve and better than Fiorentina

Roma, Valencia and Arsenal are about the same, although on current form I would rather play the other two, than play Arsenal.

Newcastle had Martins against Arsenals reserves and they lost 2-0 so that ends that theory.



Anyway as Martins (currently) has a proclivity to miss open goals (two in two games and counting) having him is an disadvantage not an advantage to the team.



In all honesty Juve are better than Vilaareal, but Fiorentina are inferior.

Arsenal reserves are the 5th best team in the league, there's no shame in losing to them.

Yes, and what I quite intelligently tried to demonstrate that this is because Fiorentina haven't had the extra 10/15 European games per season that Roma have had.

This is now the FIFTH time I've had to make this point. Please take notice of it.

This is why your Arsenal - Liverpool example is flawed. A better comparison would be the 05/06 season when Spurs nearly pipped us to 4th spot - they had no European football whilst we got to the CL final.

I'm banging my head against the table here! And this brings me around to my point on Villarreal, who have finished minimum top 5, except in the two seasons that they got to the CL semi and the UEFA cup semi.

Like I said, FIFTH time I've made this point now

bluenine wrote:There goes Tweedy again.... Even if I ignore the obvious typo, you just don't get it.

I think what Gigliati was trying to show you (quite intelligently) was that there isn't that much of a difference between Roma and Fiorentina. Just to make it easire for you to understand, let me use EPL examples. The difference between Roma and Fiorentina is about the same as the difference between Liverpool and Arsenal. There exists some on paper, but there is little evidence of it on the field.

2005 to 2008 (so far) Fiorentina have notched up 156 points to Roma's 155 in Serie A. That how close these two sides have been. Just to put it in perspective, Inter have 184 and Milan 162. Thats how impressive Fiorentina have been in Serie A of late.

Saying that Villareal is better than Fiorentina is seriously showing your ignorance of Serie A. Sure, they could beat them on their day and there is not too much of a difference, but Villareal haven't been as impressive in the last 2 seasons as Fiorentina.

And Juve more or less = Fiorentina.

I heard it the first time, tweedy. But playing 2 championships just means a squad depth. And both Fiorentina and Juve have the required depth too, you cannot disregard their performance just coz they were not playing in europe.

Even 10-12 extra games cannot disregard the large difference in performance, albeit in different leagues:
-------------------2005-06--------------2006-07
Fiorentina-------74 points(4th)---------73 points (3rd)
Villareal---------57 points (7th)--------62 points (5th)

You can probably use that arguement to say that Roma/Arsenal/Valencia may be better than Fiorentina coz the point difference/position is not that stark. But not Villareal, you will be seriously undermining Serie A if you say that.

Which is probably your intention anyways... WUM!

Tweedle wrote:Yes, and what I quite intelligently tried to demonstrate that this is because Fiorentina haven't had the extra 10/15 European games per season that Roma have had.

This is now the FIFTH time I've had to make this point. Please take notice of it.

This is why your Arsenal - Liverpool example is flawed. A better comparison would be the 05/06 season when Spurs nearly pipped us to 4th spot - they had no European football whilst we got to the CL final.

I'm banging my head against the table here! And this brings me around to my point on Villarreal, who have finished minimum top 5, except in the two seasons that they got to the CL semi and the UEFA cup semi.

Like I said, FIFTH time I've made this point now

bluenine wrote:There goes Tweedy again.... Even if I ignore the obvious typo, you just don't get it.

I think what Gigliati was trying to show you (quite intelligently) was that there isn't that much of a difference between Roma and Fiorentina. Just to make it easire for you to understand, let me use EPL examples. The difference between Roma and Fiorentina is about the same as the difference between Liverpool and Arsenal. There exists some on paper, but there is little evidence of it on the field.

2005 to 2008 (so far) Fiorentina have notched up 156 points to Roma's 155 in Serie A. That how close these two sides have been. Just to put it in perspective, Inter have 184 and Milan 162. Thats how impressive Fiorentina have been in Serie A of late.

Saying that Villareal is better than Fiorentina is seriously showing your ignorance of Serie A. Sure, they could beat them on their day and there is not too much of a difference, but Villareal haven't been as impressive in the last 2 seasons as Fiorentina.

And Juve more or less = Fiorentina.

Two points.

Firstly, squad depth, yes. But it is also undeniable that a long cup run can affect league performances. We see examples of this time and time again in the EPL.

Secondly, La Liga is for me, without doubt, the most competitive league. Throughout almost all of its teams there are players with genuine quality.

So is Serie A this time, tweedy, so is Serie A.

But what I was trying to show you, is the large difference in points. Both your points will not make that much of an difference for Villareal to be regarded as better than Fiorentina.

Tweedle wrote:Two points.

Firstly, squad depth, yes. But it is also undeniable that a long cup run can affect league performances. We see examples of this time and time again in the EPL.

Secondly, La Liga is for me, without doubt, the most competitive league. Throughout almost all of its teams there are players with genuine quality.

So you're saying that La Liga=Serie A>>>EPL in terms of depth of quality?

I'm sorry but I think you're hideously wrong on this one.

bluenine wrote:So is Serie A this time, tweedy, so is Serie A.

Tweedle wrote:Two points.

Firstly, squad depth, yes. But it is also undeniable that a long cup run can affect league performances. We see examples of this time and time again in the EPL.

Secondly, La Liga is for me, without doubt, the most competitive league. Throughout almost all of its teams there are players with genuine quality.

Nice attempt at starting a new arguement. (Hideously? )

But what I was trying to show you, is the large difference in points. Both your points will not make that much of an difference for Villareal to be regarded as better than Fiorentina.

Even 10-12 extra games cannot disregard the large difference in performance, albeit in different leagues:
-------------------2005-06--------------2006-07
Fiorentina-------74 points(4th)---------73 points (3rd)
Villareal---------57 points (7th)--------62 points (5th)

Tweedle wrote:So you're saying that La Liga=Serie A>>>EPL in terms of depth of quality?

I'm sorry but I think you're hideously wrong on this one.

bluenine wrote:So is Serie A this time, tweedy, so is Serie A.

Tweedle wrote:Two points.

Firstly, squad depth, yes. But it is also undeniable that a long cup run can affect league performances. We see examples of this time and time again in the EPL.

Secondly, La Liga is for me, without doubt, the most competitive league. Throughout almost all of its teams there are players with genuine quality.

Ok, I'll run this through with you

You posted:

-------------------2005-06--------------2006-07
Fiorentina-------74 points(4th)---------73 points (3rd)
Villareal---------57 points (7th)--------62 points (5th)

Right, the 05/06 season Villarreal got to the semis of the CL. So that's 2 qualifiers, 6 league games and 6 knockout games - 14 games, many of which were against some very very good clubs. That means that for 14 weekends following on from a CL game, they may have had tired players. Surely that's going to lead to a few dropped points? Its not as though they have a huge squad depth bluey.

Last season the gap was just 11 points, a season in which Serie A was the weakest it has been for decades (no exaggeration).

I don't think my comments are THAT far fetched.

Also Tweeds

Last season Villarreal were without Riquelme, Pirès and Gonzalo Rodríguez.

Batman wrote:Also Tweeds

Last season Villarreal were without Riquelme, Pirès and Gonzalo Rodríguez.

That's not really an arguement I want to rely on. It is worth noting though that all three would walk into both Fiorentina and Juve's teams

Axeslammer wrote:

rza wrote:

What is the world coming to if an African watch more European football than Europeans!

Europe <> Italy.

I watch Dutch, German, English and some Spanish football.

I do not watch a league where titles/refs are bought

I watch:

Dutch football >>> German football>>>English football>>> Spanish football>>>> Italian football>>>Scottish football>>>>French Football>>>> Belgian football>>>Portuguese football...

Do you have a life Ricardo?

In response to the first original poster re Serie A,

lets not kid ourselves, people's own bias along with their own sphere of knowledge means there is a lot of ignorance , whether intentional or not, from certain individuals regarding most of the leagues in Europe, including the EPL.

Outside of the top 4 in England for example, there is not a massive understanding from the so called neutrals on this board either.

I've heard ridiculous comments made insinuating that outside the top 4 the EPL is weak/boring.

I watched Newcastle V West Ham the otherday, and it was a better match that the Man U Chelsea one on later.

West Ham in particular played some passing football which wouldnt have looked out of place in Serie A/La Liga.

But other than West Ham fans and avid watchers of the Premiership, not many people are aware of this.

Even Everton are playing some good stuff at the moment.

Blackburn are probably the most ignored club on this board- their wingers and general style of play - tainted by Arsene Whinger as "too physical" - is far from it.

So its swings and roundabouts - I dont feel sorry for Bluenine as such, as I have heard comments from him which have smacked of ignorance in the past about EPL clubs, but thats the nature of the beast - the guy loves his Italian football and defends what he enjoys

Tweedle wrote:Do you have a life Ricardo?

Of course I don't watch so many football anymore but when I watch it is in this order...

The English, Spanish & Italian leagues are all roughly at the same level, so stop having tedious arguments about which is the best.

People who don't watch Serie A should because there is plenty of entertaining football & lots of goals. Sure last season wasn't great but that was a freak year because of all the points penalties. Some of the stadiums are $h!t but that is irrelevant for TV viewers.

Bias perhaps, but ignorance? Tut tut, Prince, nice statement but can you substantiate that?? It won't be easy, coz I do watch more EPL than quite a few EPL fans here for over a decade and a half... admitingly more out of availability than choice, if I got complete Serie A coverage I would probably stop watching any other league.

But I haven't been accused of ignorance re football before... so am very curious, what are these comments that you are talking about?

I do end up defending italian football here regularily, thats more coz too there are too many english posters, and too few italian, so there is a huge natural bias against the italians here.

Handsome Prince Of Saxony wrote:
So its swings and roundabouts - I dont feel sorry for Bluenine as such, as I have heard comments from him which have smacked of ignorance in the past about EPL clubs, but thats the nature of the beast - the guy loves his Italian football and defends what he enjoys

Bluenine isn't ignorant, he just loves Italians

Do a poll and we'll find out the answer.

Bluenine is a legendary poster, and also he and I were part of the very few Serie A fans on the BBC boards (almost 5 years ago now Blue). Remember the good old days?

I will have to stick up for Tweeds here. His comment that Villarreal are better than Fiorentina is not THAT unfounded. I think in the past two seasons the teams have certainly been comparable. The key for me is Prandelli; he gives Viola a valuable dimension.

bluenine wrote:Nice attempt at starting a new arguement. (Hideously? )

But what I was trying to show you, is the large difference in points. Both your points will not make that much of an difference for Villareal to be regarded as better than Fiorentina.

Even 10-12 extra games cannot disregard the large difference in performance, albeit in different leagues:
-------------------2005-06--------------2006-07
Fiorentina-------74 points(4th)---------73 points (3rd)
Villareal---------57 points (7th)--------62 points (5th)

Tweedle wrote:So you're saying that La Liga=Serie A>>>EPL in terms of depth of quality?

I'm sorry but I think you're hideously wrong on this one.

bluenine wrote:So is Serie A this time, tweedy, so is Serie A.

Tweedle wrote:Two points.

Firstly, squad depth, yes. But it is also undeniable that a long cup run can affect league performances. We see examples of this time and time again in the EPL.

Secondly, La Liga is for me, without doubt, the most competitive league. Throughout almost all of its teams there are players with genuine quality.

This is not an argument that works. Man Utd had 20 odd points more than Barca, real madrid last year. Inter probably similar....does this mean that they are better? of course not. Different league different way a season comes out. And of course if you have big european games in midweek, you rest players and dropping points is more likely.

The whole style of defending anything, and making out quite normal opinions and statements are ignorance and bias is pretty pathetic. I see more bias from you than i do from tweedle. I see as much ignorance from you as most other people, yet you always shout ignorance when someone says something about seria a that doesn't meet with your opinion. fiorentina as good as arsenal is fine. juventus better than valencia is fine. mancini = ronaldo is fine normal. villareal better than fiorentina is ignorance and bias

I doubt you care so much whether most people want to or will watch seria a or take a different viewpoint, but this style makes me do the oppisite.
The hypocrisy is incredible.

It seems that football fans in Europe are getting a raw deal.

In Africa we have one main pay tv (DSTV) and they show us all the big leagues in Europe, except Bundesliga. They have rights from ITV, Setanta and Sky for all EPL and most Champions League matches. Then we have ESPN for Serie A and champions league, and Rai for Serie A. Then we get around 70% of La Liga matches from Sky and other channels. From there we have around 50% of Lique 1 from Canal Plus, I think. Then we have all Superliga matches, because of Mozambique and Angola’s colonial links with Portugal. Then we have Eredivisie from BVN.

All this for +-30 pounds a month. Of course it’s gonna change since South African government has approved four new pay-tv companies.

Anybody wanna come to South Africa?

bluenine wrote:Bias perhaps, but ignorance? Tut tut, Prince, nice statement but can you substantiate that?? It won't be easy, coz I do watch more EPL than quite a few EPL fans here for over a decade and a half... admitingly more out of availability than choice, if I got complete Serie A coverage I would probably stop watching any other league.

But I haven't been accused of ignorance re football before... so am very curious, what are these comments that you are talking about?

I do end up defending italian football here regularily, thats more coz too there are too many english posters, and too few italian, so there is a huge natural bias against the italians here.

Handsome Prince Of Saxony wrote:
So its swings and roundabouts - I dont feel sorry for Bluenine as such, as I have heard comments from him which have smacked of ignorance in the past about EPL clubs, but thats the nature of the beast - the guy loves his Italian football and defends what he enjoys

Ignorance perhaps a strong word. You're a thoroughly likeable poster/chap, so dont get me wrong.

The general opinion of most followers of European football, particularly on this board, does seem to be that the teams outside the top 4 in England are 2nd rate kick and rush. As a follower of the mighty Spurs, my defence is to shout "ignorant".

Never said that, even tho there is a gap between the top 4 and the rest.

I think Spurs and Newcastle are actually very strong, so are Everton, WH, and City now... Spurs just need a better manager!

You are putting someone elses words in my mouth. Never a good thing, specially when you use that to call me ignorant!!

Handsome Prince Of Saxony wrote:

bluenine wrote:Bias perhaps, but ignorance? Tut tut, Prince, nice statement but can you substantiate that?? It won't be easy, coz I do watch more EPL than quite a few EPL fans here for over a decade and a half... admitingly more out of availability than choice, if I got complete Serie A coverage I would probably stop watching any other league.

But I haven't been accused of ignorance re football before... so am very curious, what are these comments that you are talking about?

I do end up defending italian football here regularily, thats more coz too there are too many english posters, and too few italian, so there is a huge natural bias against the italians here.

Handsome Prince Of Saxony wrote:
So its swings and roundabouts - I dont feel sorry for Bluenine as such, as I have heard comments from him which have smacked of ignorance in the past about EPL clubs, but thats the nature of the beast - the guy loves his Italian football and defends what he enjoys

Ignorance perhaps a strong word. You're a thoroughly likeable poster/chap, so dont get me wrong.

The general opinion of most followers of European football, particularly on this board, does seem to be that the teams outside the top 4 in England are 2nd rate kick and rush. As a follower of the mighty Spurs, my defence is to shout "ignorant".

L r d wrote:
I see as much ignorance from you as most other people, yet you always shout ignorance when someone says something about seria a that doesn't meet with your opinion. fiorentina as good as arsenal is fine. juventus better than valencia is fine. mancini = ronaldo is fine normal. villareal better than fiorentina is ignorance and bias

The hypocrisy is incredible.

I never said any of the things you mention, you are either assigning me someone elses comments, or mis-quoting me, or just plain lying. I want to challenge some of these lies you and some others seem to be spearding about me at one go. Let me demonstrate with some of my quotes on these topics - I have provided the links as well, just to show to you that all 3 comments that you are attributing to me are LIES:

From this thread, regarding Juve-Valencia:

bluenine wrote:I agree. Valencia are quality, and at the mo are better than Juve.

On Ronaldo-Mancini comparison:
http://europeanboard.ephpbb.com/European-Cups-f5/European-Champions-league-draw-t7434-220.htm

Rez wrote:Bluenines been very objective and said united will probably beat Roma and that it was a bad tie for Roma, on the Seri A discussion thread.

Lucas Neill wrote:Bullshit Tweeds....Ronaldo done f@ck all both times against Lille...there is no way he is that much better than Mancini..and on form Mancini can be equally as good...

bluenine wrote:Mancini > Giggs
Taddei < Ronaldo

On Fiorentina "as good as" Arsenal IF TONI STAYS:
http://europeanboard.ephpbb.com/European-Leagues-f4/Toni-joins-Bayern-t9485-80.htm

bluenine wrote:No disrespect intended, mate. Of course they are very different clubs, with different resources. Fiorentina are where arsenal were 1-2 years ago. They have assembled talented kids, and they are building for the future. I did not imply they are equals, just that they have about equal chances of winning their leagues coz Serie A has more contenders (hence there could be more upsets).

As you can see, I never said any of the things you are attributing to me. So should I call you ignorant or a liar?? Whose being hypocritical here?? I think you owe me an apology, dude!

Do you think Prandelli plans to stay with Fiorentina for the long haul and see the fruits of the squad he's assembled bluey or do you think he may be tempted away in the near future?

Also, whilst we're at it, how would you compare Fiorentina and Spurs and if you had to make a combined squad of the two, who would make the team?