i told you...Benitez is overated.

Luis wrote:Yes.

Kimbo wrote:Louis Saha the permanent crock? There's a player that doesn't have a great strikerate, the Manx still seem to rate his contribution to the team though.

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:how many sub appearances though, he's defo scored goals as a sub

Kimbo wrote:

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:how many sub appearances though, he's defo scored goals as a sub

39 sub appearances.

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:how many sub appearances though, he's defo scored goals as a sub

39 sub appearances.

suddenly makes his stats a bit sh¡t really, no surprise there. its why i said footy is more than stats you can "massage" them to prove any point

Football Genius wrote:Sorry Kimbo, but all you've explained there is one word, workrate.

He can do that all day long, as i explained if i wanted to get fit i could run round the park for 90minutes, its what you do with the ball which counts, and he neither made enough or scored enough.

Hes a striker his number one target, it to provide goals by either scoring or making them.

He did neither.

So whilst you write another long winded explaination of all the things which constitute 'work rate'

I'll continue to harp on about the fact hes a failure as a striker bar one season at Blackburn.

Point is hes a shite useless player for any team with top 4 or champions league aspirations.

Sheffield gunner wrote:This was in the Guardian today:

Benítez reaches for comfort blanket of statistics but fails to cover up ills

There are shades of Gérard Houllier in Rafa Benítez's excuses but the problems at Liverpool run deep.
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Excuses and convenient statistics increased as Gérard Houllier's success declined at Anfield and, in a week of fierce self-examination at Liverpool, it has been alarming to hear Rafael Benítez employ similar tactics in defence of under-achievement. It is a strategy unlikely to find favour with the club's American owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, and a revival of recent Liverpool history that supporters would rather forget.

Autumn is often a season for inquests at Liverpool and this year is proving no exception, with the side on the brink of a Champions League exit after defeat by Besiktas sent them to the Group A basement on Wednesday night. An unbeaten start in the Premier League provides Benítez with protection from talk of a crisis and the visit of Arsenal on Sunday offers the chance for instant redemption, although it is an opportunity Liverpool will struggle to grasp without an impressive reaction at Anfield.

Before departing for Istanbul Benítez dismissed concerns about the previous weekend's unconvincing display from his team - a valuable victory over Everton where controversy masked the performance level - and the theory that a repeat in the cauldron of the Inonu Stadium would invite danger. "Look at the game again," he said. "Everton had one shot on target and six off, while we got 19 shots away. We did a lot of good things."

Yet the result in Turkey confirmed the pre-match suspicions and the Houllier impersonation continued. "It is difficult to explain when you have 28 attempts away from home and you cannot win" was Benitez's opening line at the post- match inquest. There was a temptation to check the diary to confirm a change of manager and that three years of expensive squad enhancement had actually taken place.

Liverpool are doing their damnedest in the Champions League to accelerate pre-season claims that the Premier League title is their priority and that is a troublesome path, especially when Arsenal and Manchester United have struck form in a division where the margin for error has diminished in recent years.

This season concentrating on one major trophy before Christmas was deemed unacceptable for such an impressive squad, a view expressed by Benítez when his demands for top-dollar imports in the wake of the European Cup final defeat by Milan yielded the £26.5m Fernando Torres and no doubt shared by Hicks and Gillett, who signed the cheques. Yet without three victories from their remaining three group games in the Champions League, it is likely to be Liverpool's reality again.

The European glory which captivated Gillett and Hicks at the time of their take-over has provided a safety net for Benítez against criticism for failing to make domestic inroads. Without that the Premier League title would take on even greater importance to a club run by Americans seeking tangible returns on an investment which started at £430m but will inflate in line with the rising cost of funding the new stadium in Stanley Park.

Yet dramatic recoveries are a Benítez forte and it would be remiss to dismiss the possibility of another, particularly when so many of the problems afflicting Liverpool can be rectified from within. One legitimate excuse open to the Spaniard, but which he has not presented in public so far, is that the spine of his team which can move the ball with pace, accuracy and purpose - attributes sorely lacking against Besiktas - has been lost to injury. Daniel Agger, Xabi Alonso and Torres have been sorely missed and in the meantime Sami Hyypia, Javier Mascherano, Mohamed Sissoko and the usually consistent Steve Finnan have struggled badly.

There has been a notable dip throughout the team since a hapless Derby County were demolished at Anfield eight weeks ago. Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher have not delivered their inspiring leadership since fracturing a toe and ribs respectively in August, although both hinted at an upturn in Turkey, and the lack of an outstanding wide man continues to hinder a squad seriously short of options on the left. This is one weakness currently beyond Benítez, who has sought and failed to address the deficiency in each of his four summers at the club. Others are of the manager's own making.

Resting Torres against Portsmouth and Birmingham, not rotation, disrupted Liverpool's momentum when their season was gathering pace. Benítez's aversion to deploying Peter Crouch has also had a detrimental effect, particularly in Istanbul where it was not until the 83rd minute that he added necessary potency to the creative but hardly clinical forward line of Dirk Kuyt and Andriy Voronin. Alonso too, it should be noted, was fit to face Besiktas yet was left on the bench as Liverpool's distribution veered between disappointing and dire on Wednesday.

"I don't know what has gone wrong," said the goalkeeper, Jose Reina, yesterday. "We are not in an easy group and it is difficult in Besiktas. We were not right in front of goal and that was the story of the game. We conceded two goals from four shots on target. We could score only one from 10. What can I say?"

That fate is not entirely to blame for Liverpool's predicament would be a start.

Andy Hunter

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/10/26/benitez_reaches_for_comfort_bl.html