How Rafa Lost Liverpool The Title

Football Genius wrote: I don't see an awful lot of that from Liverpool fans to be fair, its more knee jerk reaction from other supporters

What a surprise that is

Puro wrote:

Don Fabio wrote:

Puro wrote:Liverpool were doomed when they lost 'Mr. Irreplaceable Captain' for many games. Liverpool are a much improved team with their REAL inspirational captain playing with good match fitness. Without him, Liverpool forwards had no chance, without him, them forwards were left stranded in the Sahara.

Liverpool will win again an EPL title when their central midfield situation is sorted. They have no substitute for Xabi Alonso, Liverpool's best player, the heart and soul of the team. Without him Liverpool can't win anything. Without any other player missing, Liverpool can still win things, but not without Xabi Alonso.

I saw your name as the last person to post on this thread, and the first thing I thought was "whats for betting his input will centre around the lines of blaming Gerrard and praising Xabi Alonso?".

If only I could actually put money on your posts, I'd be a millionaire. Guaranteed payout everytime

By the way- got to love your logic: Liverpool can win everything else without Alonso, but just not the league....

yet in the past you've stated on numerous occassions that winning the EPL is EASIER and less important than winning the Champions League; and that Stevie G is an EPL class player only.

So actually what you are saying is that Alonso is an important EPL player, and Stevie G is only good enough to help Liverpool win the Champions League, but the Champions League is harder to win than the EPL, so therefore Stevie G is actually more important than Alonso? Or vice versa?

This has left me utterly utterly confounded

You're confounded by anything and everything around you. I don't blame you though, it's gotta be them Johnny Foreigners like Otto.

You are a parody of the people you claim to criticise, yet you don't realise it.

The only one blaming individuals based on their nationality is you - not a single person on here has blamed "Jonny Foreigner", yet you are putting forward the most unconvincing argument ever that it is actually Steven "English Fucko" Gerrard's fault for Liverpool's failure in the EPL, and that the whole of Liverpool's success hinges on one player- Alonso (who has been pretty hit and miss most of last and this season in the league).

That, my friend, is the inverted argument as pathetic as any Little Englander who tried to lie all the blame at the feet of a foreigner.

Chins brother

COTR wrote:Nice way to ignore being Pwned puro mate

COTR! I'm not surprised. In your eyes, I will forever be owned, or pwned or however you want to put it. I have to be.

The fact is, I owned or pwned all of you a while ago. I took on all of you and won. I said numerous times that England are in reality a shite team, full of overrated overpaid overhyped good for nothing players, and that Sven actually overachieved with this limited team.

Of course now, I have to be owned or pwned at the slightest, but you already know what time it is, or at least one would hope so.

Otrick has just spanked Puro!!

Don Fabio wrote:

Puro wrote:

Don Fabio wrote:

Puro wrote:Liverpool were doomed when they lost 'Mr. Irreplaceable Captain' for many games. Liverpool are a much improved team with their REAL inspirational captain playing with good match fitness. Without him, Liverpool forwards had no chance, without him, them forwards were left stranded in the Sahara.

Liverpool will win again an EPL title when their central midfield situation is sorted. They have no substitute for Xabi Alonso, Liverpool's best player, the heart and soul of the team. Without him Liverpool can't win anything. Without any other player missing, Liverpool can still win things, but not without Xabi Alonso.

I saw your name as the last person to post on this thread, and the first thing I thought was "whats for betting his input will centre around the lines of blaming Gerrard and praising Xabi Alonso?".

If only I could actually put money on your posts, I'd be a millionaire. Guaranteed payout everytime

By the way- got to love your logic: Liverpool can win everything else without Alonso, but just not the league....

yet in the past you've stated on numerous occassions that winning the EPL is EASIER and less important than winning the Champions League; and that Stevie G is an EPL class player only.

So actually what you are saying is that Alonso is an important EPL player, and Stevie G is only good enough to help Liverpool win the Champions League, but the Champions League is harder to win than the EPL, so therefore Stevie G is actually more important than Alonso? Or vice versa?

This has left me utterly utterly confounded

You're confounded by anything and everything around you. I don't blame you though, it's gotta be them Johnny Foreigners like Otto.

You are a parody of the people you claim to criticise, yet you don't realise it.

The only one blaming individuals based on their nationality is you - not a single person on here has blamed "Jonny Foreigner", yet you are putting forward the most unconvincing argument ever that it is actually Steven "English Fucko" Gerrard's fault for Liverpool's failure in the EPL, and that the whole of Liverpool's success hinges on one player- Alonso (who has been pretty hit and miss most of last and this season in the league).

That, my friend, is the inverted argument as pathetic as any Little Englander who tried to lie all the blame at the feet of a foreigner.

Chins brother

Apologies in advance for this long post but I have a lot to say and I want to stress this is not Kneejerk.

Firstly, last night was one of the lowest points ever as a Liverpool fan for me, even at half time in Istanbul there was the feeling that we'd had a magnificent journey and that maybe it had to come to an end against what was a far superior side. However, last night was a game that would of given us at least a slight chance of clawing ourselves back in to the title race for this season, let's be realistic, the Premier league campaign this season for Liverpool has been a total and utter disaster.

In September we were flying, top of the league and an impressive 6-0 win over Derby, the international break followed and since then it's been massively downhill. Sure, we had a good win over Everton, always nice to beat them but we've had so many fantastic opportunities to get back into the title race, we didn't deserve them but we still had them, the United game was absolutely massive, had we won that (and on the day maybe if luck had gone our way we perhaps could have done) then it would of changed our whole season IMO, we would have had confidence to go on and really battle with United and Arsenal and even Chelsea perhaps at the top.

City also was a great opportunity with United slipping up but as usual, Liverpool bottled it and I don't really know what the reason is, every year we seem to have games in hand that can make a difference and when they come around we just don't look up to it.

Obviously, Benitez has taken a lot of criticism today and after the game last night. I was there BTW and to be honest from start to finish everything looked completely wrong, we looked like a team that's resigned to defeat, the atmosphere was stone dead, but the team Rafa put out should have won that game 4 or 5-0, lets be honest here, if we had won by that scoreline then everyone would be praising Benitez to the high heavens, when people saw Torres, Gerrard, Alonso, Masch, Pennant, Kewell, no one was having a go at playing the supposed 4-5-1, because we had players on that pitch that get paid more than the entire wigan side put together and we completely and utterly bottled it. Right from the word go we looked like a team playing against Ac Milan away, we passed it back, back, back, around the midfield a bit, then back again, we lacked any creation at all even with Pennant and Kewell on.

What annoys me is people ringing in these radio shows saying 'Benitez isn't playing our best players' Wrong. Benitez is playing our best players Gerrard and Torres, but sadly when you look elsewhere on the pitch all you get is average players and that's why we can't win the league yet. Having said that, I will criticise Benitez because at the end of the day, he's spent 70 odd million pounds in his time here and I don't think hes spent well, I have to say, would Kuyt, Crouch or Voronin get into the United team? not in a million years, would Nani, Anderson or Evra get in ours? you bet your life they would.

Benitez doesn't understand the English league, he's fantastic in Europe, I wont deny that, but some Liverpool fans need to move on from 2005 and accept that in the league Benitez is not good enough, his philosophy that you need the best players fresh for the big games doesn't work because when the big games come around we're already way off the pace.

We're just far too inconsistent, you can't go from a 4-1 win against Pompey to a good performance against City (but very unluckily 2 points dropped) to a disgraceful performance against Wigan at home, and people who say we played OK last night are talking out their arses, we played fucking terrible.

And another thing that annoys me is the fans condemned for booing at the end last night, I wasn't one of them but we're all Liverpool fans and we all have the right to an opinion, if some really feel that unhappy then they have every right to Boo at the team, they deserved it for putting in that performance.

Obviously something's not right at Liverpool, we need a major reshuffle. I don't think Benitez will go this season but If we don't win the Champions league this season and finish below second then i'd be amazed if he was still Liverpool manager at the start of next season.

That's what I have to say.

Don Fabio wrote:
You are a parody of the people you claim to criticise, yet you don't realise it.

The only one blaming individuals based on their nationality is you - not a single person on here has blamed "Jonny Foreigner", yet you are putting forward the most unconvincing argument ever that it is actually Steven "English Fucko" Gerrard's fault for Liverpool's failure in the EPL, and that the whole of Liverpool's success hinges on one player- Alonso (who has been pretty hit and miss most of last and this season in the league).

That, my friend, is the inverted argument as pathetic as any Little Englander who tried to lie all the blame at the feet of a foreigner.

Chins brother

Alright, I'm gonna give you a minute. That's all I have for you. You think I'm anti-English because I never rated the overhyped players, yet your most prestigious clubs and your FA go foreign. They're not gonna go public and say "English players and managers are shite, that's why we hire foreigners". Think about it fucko! You are shite when it comes to football, open your eyes. That's all the time I have for you, now if you excuse me I have important things to do.

Puro wrote:

Don Fabio wrote:
You are a parody of the people you claim to criticise, yet you don't realise it.

The only one blaming individuals based on their nationality is you - not a single person on here has blamed "Jonny Foreigner", yet you are putting forward the most unconvincing argument ever that it is actually Steven "English Fucko" Gerrard's fault for Liverpool's failure in the EPL, and that the whole of Liverpool's success hinges on one player- Alonso (who has been pretty hit and miss most of last and this season in the league).

That, my friend, is the inverted argument as pathetic as any Little Englander who tried to lie all the blame at the feet of a foreigner.

Chins brother

Alright, I'm gonna give you a minute. That's all I have for you. You think I'm anti-English because I never rated the overhyped players, yet your most prestigious clubs and your FA go foreign. They're not gonna go public and say "English players and managers are shite, that's why we hire foreigners". Think about it fucko! You are shite when it comes to football, open your eyes. That's all the time I have for you, i must now walk away with my tail between my legs .

Puro wrote:

Don Fabio wrote:
You are a parody of the people you claim to criticise, yet you don't realise it.

The only one blaming individuals based on their nationality is you - not a single person on here has blamed "Jonny Foreigner", yet you are putting forward the most unconvincing argument ever that it is actually Steven "English Fucko" Gerrard's fault for Liverpool's failure in the EPL, and that the whole of Liverpool's success hinges on one player- Alonso (who has been pretty hit and miss most of last and this season in the league).

That, my friend, is the inverted argument as pathetic as any Little Englander who tried to lie all the blame at the feet of a foreigner.

Chins brother

Alright, I'm gonna give you a minute. That's all I have for you. You think I'm anti-English because I never rated the overhyped players, yet your most prestigious clubs and your FA go foreign. They're not gonna go public and say "English players and managers are shite, that's why we hire foreigners". Think about it fucko! You are shite when it comes to football, open your eyes. That's all the time I have for you, now if you excuse me I have important things to do.

Like watching Braveheart or The Patriot?

Merry Krimbo wrote: Otrick has just spanked Puro!!

Yes Kimbo bro! 0trick, you, and everyone else whoop my ass. You all owned me.

Puro wrote:

Merry Krimbo wrote: Otrick has just spanked Puro!!

Yes Kimbo bro! 0trick, you, and everyone else whoop my ass. You all owned me.

It finally sinks in....

It would be appropriate to use this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLZVZVLvtmY

Football Genius wrote:

Puro wrote:

Merry Krimbo wrote: Otrick has just spanked Puro!!

Yes Kimbo bro! 0trick, you, and everyone else whoop my ass. You all owned me.

It finally sinks in....

Geesh! part of me was saying "I hope England qualify to the Euro". I knew that my saying that England were shite, and YOU all seeing that on the playing field, was gonna bring a lot of hatred towards me somehow. I mean you think Gerrard's a great central midfielder FFS!

You all just don't want to be told you're shite by a Johnny Foreigner. Is that it!

Puro wrote:

Don Fabio wrote:
You are a parody of the people you claim to criticise, yet you don't realise it.

The only one blaming individuals based on their nationality is you - not a single person on here has blamed "Jonny Foreigner", yet you are putting forward the most unconvincing argument ever that it is actually Steven "English Fucko" Gerrard's fault for Liverpool's failure in the EPL, and that the whole of Liverpool's success hinges on one player- Alonso (who has been pretty hit and miss most of last and this season in the league).

That, my friend, is the inverted argument as pathetic as any Little Englander who tried to lie all the blame at the feet of a foreigner.

Chins brother

Alright, I'm gonna give you a minute. That's all I have for you. You think I'm anti-English because I never rated the overhyped players, yet your most prestigious clubs and your FA go foreign. They're not gonna go public and say "English players and managers are shite, that's why we hire foreigners". Think about it fucko! You are shite when it comes to football, open your eyes. That's all the time I have for you, now if you excuse me I have important things to do.

You don't get it do you? It's not even that you don't rate the English players, you come out with the most fantastically muddled, self serving arguments for why the likes of Steven Gerrard are overhyped and supposedly useless.

If you actually made decent arguments rather than just spouting cr@p about how much more you know than everyone else, turning thread upon thread into some kind of "you fuckos versus the Jonny Foreigners" babble, then maybe you wouldnt sound like such a turnip.

You are like the Michael Moore to the English Tabloid Media's George Bush: Both of you are full of sh*t in equal measures.

The rest of us will either just laugh at or mock you and remain somewhere in the middle thanks. If you don't mind of course

Theres nothing wrong to accept critism where its due, but not down right blatent bull $h!t, but then no wonder you speak volumes of it, you live in the bubble which is 'america' and have an intellect like George Bush running your life

Football Genius wrote:Theres nothing wrong to accept critism where its due, but not down right blatent bull $h!t, but then no wonder you speak volumes of it, you live in the bubble which is 'america' and have an intellect like George Bush running your life

FG brother, you are damn right about Bush and his foreign policies. What the f@ck did we do to get this fucko running our world the last 8 years.

All the best to your Liverpool. Here's hoping your team gets everything sorted out. You know I have a soft spot for your Reds.

Puro wrote:You know I have a soft spot for your Reds.

So thats why you back them every season.

You have the disease.

Puro wrote:

Merry Krimbo wrote: Otrick has just spanked Puro!!

Yes Kimbo bro! 0trick, you, and everyone else whoop my ass. You all owned me.

Do you ever stop to think that when everyone says you've been pwned that you might actually have been pwned? Or is that not a possibility for you?

Let's be crystal clear about this - the reason most people on this board think you're a dick is not because you endlessly lambast English football. It's because you are a dogmatic, hypocritical wind up merchant who never says anything positive about or to anyone and constantly hypes himself up far more than those icons he purports to be smashing. You're a low-budget, redneck version of Martin Luther King...

Crouch>>>Pizarro.

Roger Hunt wrote:

Anas Al-Liby wrote: Knowing more and having found myself in the circumstances to prove it are two different things. I notice you go after the one silly statement in my post and ignore all the perfectly valid criticism. You might worship Benitez, but he has flaws just like any manager does.

Of course I go after the one silly statement in your post. Please don't pretend that you don't do exactly the same thing to most posters on here.

I don't, actually. I pick out all the silly things in their posts, and there's usually 5 or 10.

I don't worship Benitez, he clearly has flaws. His record as a manager is pretty good though. All this 'sack Benitez' stuff is fine - but who would replace him? There's no-one I would strongly favour over him at the moment.

I agree. All Liverpool's problems can be solved without sacking Benitez, if he'll accept criticism and people being appointed to do parts of his job.

Anas Al-Liby wrote:

Puro wrote:

Merry Krimbo wrote: Otrick has just spanked Puro!!

Yes Kimbo bro! 0trick, you, and everyone else whoop my ass. You all owned me.

Do you ever stop to think that when everyone says you've been pwned that you might actually have been pwned? Or is that not a possibility for you?

Let's be crystal clear about this - the reason most people on this board think you're a dick is not because you endlessly lambast English football. It's because you are a dogmatic, hypocritical wind up merchant who never says anything positive about or to anyone and constantly hypes himself up far more than those icons he purports to be smashing. You're a low-budget, redneck version of Martin Luther King...

Parks lives wrote:

Puro wrote:You know I have a soft spot for your Reds.

So thats why you back them every season.

You have the disease.

Please explain Parky! Is there something I don't know about Liverpool? I have a soft spot for the Reds because The Beatles (best band in the history of rock 'n roll! yeah...I'm anti-English! ) come from there, and I heard John (RIP) and Paul were Liverpool fans.

The 'This is our year' disease.

Anas Al-Liby wrote:

Do you ever stop to think that when everyone says you've been pwned that you might actually have been pwned? Or is that not a possibility for you?

Let's be crystal clear about this - the reason most people on this board think you're a dick is not because you endlessly lambast English football. It's because you are a dogmatic, hypocritical wind up merchant who never says anything positive about or to anyone and constantly hypes himself up far more than those icons he purports to be smashing. You're a low-budget, redneck version of Martin Luther King...

You're the biggest pussy around here though, and YOU KNOW IT!

Now if you excuse me you pussy.

Parks lives wrote:The 'This is our year' disease.

Ah I see. Damn!

Luis wrote:Firstly, last night was one of the lowest points ever as a Liverpool fan for me,

oh, to support as club where the lowest you can get is a draw at home

Puro wrote:
You're the biggest pussy around here though, and YOU KNOW IT!

Now if you excuse me you pussy.

That's a pussy. Try again. Actually, don't.

Puro wrote:

Parks lives wrote:

Puro wrote:You know I have a soft spot for your Reds.

So thats why you back them every season.

You have the disease.

Please explain Parky! Is there something I don't know about Liverpool? I have a soft spot for the Reds because The Beatles (best band in the history of rock 'n roll! yeah...I'm anti-English! ) come from there, and I heard John (RIP) and Paul were Liverpool fans.

Are you sure they're better than the Strokes Puro? It's 50/50 IMO.

Merry Krimbo wrote:

Puro wrote:

Parks lives wrote:

Puro wrote:You know I have a soft spot for your Reds.

So thats why you back them every season.

You have the disease.

Please explain Parky! Is there something I don't know about Liverpool? I have a soft spot for the Reds because The Beatles (best band in the history of rock 'n roll! yeah...I'm anti-English! ) come from there, and I heard John (RIP) and Paul were Liverpool fans.

Are you sure they're better than the Strokes Puro? It's 50/50 IMO.

the strokes did save rocknroll, after all. there just wasn't enough hype till they came along

Luis wrote: Obviously, Benitez has taken a lot of criticism today and after the game last night. I was there BTW and to be honest from start to finish everything looked completely wrong, we looked like a team that's resigned to defeat, the atmosphere was stone dead, but the team Rafa put out should have won that game 4 or 5-0, lets be honest here, if we had won by that scoreline then everyone would be praising Benitez to the high heavens, when people saw Torres, Gerrard, Alonso, Masch, Pennant, Kewell, no one was having a go at playing the supposed 4-5-1, because we had players on that pitch that get paid more than the entire wigan side put together and we completely and utterly bottled it. Right from the word go we looked like a team playing against Ac Milan away, we passed it back, back, back, around the midfield a bit, then back again, we lacked any creation at all even with Pennant and Kewell on.

What annoys me is people ringing in these radio shows saying 'Benitez isn't playing our best players' Wrong. Benitez is playing our best players Gerrard and Torres, but sadly when you look elsewhere on the pitch all you get is average players and that's why we can't win the league yet. Having said that, I will criticise Benitez because at the end of the day, he's spent 70 odd million pounds in his time here and I don't think hes spent well, I have to say, would Kuyt, Crouch or Voronin get into the United team? not in a million years, would Nani, Anderson or Evra get in ours? you bet your life they would.

Good post Luis.

As you say, the players have to take their share of criticism.

I'd also add that you've chosen to compare 3 of Benitez questionable signings against 3 of Fergie's better ones. I personally wouldn't give Carrick or Hargreaves a place in our team. Rooney is undoubtedly a class striker but they paid top dollar for him. The only really great signings pound for pound have been Ronaldo (who took 2 seasons to come good) and Vidic (who we wanted to sign but didn't have the money). And Voronin was on a free so hardly a waste of money.

My 2 criticisms of Rafa in the transfer market in the last couple of years are 1) signing Kuyt instead of Berbatov and) signing Babel instead of Malouda (although even that may turn out to be the right decision in the long run).

My biggest criticism of that formation is that Pennant shouldn't be playing if Crouch isnt. He won't cut in and score goals. If we are trying to play 4-5-1/ 4-3-3 then it should be Babel or Gerrard in the AMR position - even Benayoun would be better.