AC Milan vs. Arsenal Discussion Thread

No rating for Diaby then Shaz?

110% wrote: Seedorf was a huge miss, but I'm sure Milan fans will still claim that pirlo (who was shite) and kaka are the only 2 creative players etc etc.

amazingly once again in the media, golden boy pirlo has escaped all criticism, the Italian media has blamed kaka and pato (a 17 year old who's played a handful of games )

Seedorf - Milan's real best player. The only player who other than Ronaldo who I really feared. But of course Pirlo is WC.

Yoda wrote:No rating for Diaby then Shaz?

Oops, I'll fix it.

shazlx wrote:

110% wrote: Seedorf was a huge miss, but I'm sure Milan fans will still claim that pirlo (who was shite) and kaka are the only 2 creative players etc etc.

amazingly once again in the media, golden boy pirlo has escaped all criticism, the Italian media has blamed kaka and pato (a 17 year old who's played a handful of games )

Seedorf - Milan's real best player. The only player who other than Ronaldo who I really feared. But of course Pirlo is WC.

Seedorf is a Legend and was missed, but watching highlights Arsenal thoroughly deserved to win.

Gone wrote:Well done to Arsenal. The only english team to beat Milan at San Siro. Arsenal > Man United.

I only hope Milan will start rebuilding the team this summer, with a new coach.

Good luck in the uefa cup next season

Raiphael wrote:

shazlx wrote:

110% wrote: Seedorf was a huge miss, but I'm sure Milan fans will still claim that pirlo (who was shite) and kaka are the only 2 creative players etc etc.

amazingly once again in the media, golden boy pirlo has escaped all criticism, the Italian media has blamed kaka and pato (a 17 year old who's played a handful of games )

Seedorf - Milan's real best player. The only player who other than Ronaldo who I really feared. But of course Pirlo is WC.

Seedorf is a Legend and was missed, but watching highlights Arsenal thoroughly deserved to win.

my seedorf > pirlo agenda seems to be working well

although it has taken 2 years

Most people realised how important Seedorf was last year.

Pirlo had a bad game, it doesnt mean he's a Cr@p player though.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:I am not worried at all now.

We defended every Arsenal attack fairly easily, and only once did my heart skip a beat (Adebayor chance).

Arsenal were very predictable, and they were at home too. Fabregas seems to have no shot, and Adebayor has no accuracy (Nesta and Maldini marked him quite easily).

The way Arsenal fans (except Tweeds) made it out to be was that Milan were going to be run ragged. I am sorry, on the balance of play yesterday, I thought we were always in control (though we didn't play that well ourselves).

any tips for tonights games?

The thing is, certain people are under the impression that Pirlo and Kaka' are beyond criticism and that Seedorf is always the scapegoat. While that could be the case when discussing Milan with a random gloryhunter fan who watches 10 games a season and has a mancrush on Kaka', it is definitely not true when it comes to fans who follow the club all-year round. I've had no problem stating on several occassions that Pirlo has been poor and that last season (for example) Seedorf+Kaka were a lot better than him. And why would I have a problem, I have no personal favourite among Milan players, apart from Maldini. And if you go to any Milan forum you will see that at least 95% of the posters are saying that Pirlo was bad yesterday.

It is a fact and another fact is that Seedorf has been average at best this season and Kaka' similar or even worse. Pirlo, over the course of this season has been better than both of them. Everyone who watches Serie A and Milan regularly knows this therefore I can't really take comments that Seedorf is the best etc seriously. For the record, Nesta has been the best and most consistent Milan player over the past 12 months.

BoBo Vieri wrote:Most people realised how important Seedorf was last year.

Pirlo had a bad game, it doesnt mean he's a Cr@p player though.

yeah, when seedorf was allowed to play in his actual position as attacking midfielder since their attacking options were suddenly limited after sheva left

my point has always been not that pirlo is Cr@p but that he is overrated, eg somewhere on this thread someone called him "the outstanding player of the world cup" , and gone has said things like "even when he has a bad game his passing success is above 90%" (like last night I guess ). Actually that's all he does, so when he has a bad game, his passing is off and he doesn't do anything else.

great passer for sure, poor at everything else a central midfielder needs to do, needs at least 2 other players to compensate for him, a defensive midfield worker like gattuso and a playmaker ahead like kaka or totti.

he has never justified the hype to me, and that started when I saw him playing badly for Inter, he has never changed my mind even though he had a couple of good seasons with milan, i put that more down to milan being very good in defence and attack, and the gattuso-pirlo partnership working out (same for italy). I've never considered pirlo on his own to be that great a player.

btw I get tired running around in midfield, so later in the game my passing gets worse. I occassionally play alongside a floppy-haired ponce who thinks he's pirlo, he also hardly moves during the game, but thinks he's great because he makes the occasional great pass. The rest of us have to work harder to compensate for him so our passing looks worse in comparison. This is what used to happen with seedorf playing in ambrosini's position. He had to cover so much for pirlo that when he did manage to get the ball he was not able to show what he was capable of.

A Tribe Called TS wrote:

110% wrote:Great game last night. I was supporting Milan but the best team won.

Contrary to what has been said here (in the last couple of pages at least), in the first half the game kind of ebbed and flowed at least that is what it looked like in the stadium. Arsenal were on top for large parts of it but there were periods where Milan also were in the ascendancy, and in the opening period they had the clearer chances. In the second half it really looked like Arsenal in control, but they were hardly shooting at all, so wasting a lot of good opportunities, which Milan could have capitalised on by a breakaway goal.

Adebayor was great in the first half, always occupied 2 or 3 defenders, faded a bit in the 2nd half. Cesc was very good, as was flamini and hleb and diaby was ok as well. Senderos and cliche looked nervous, but gallas and sagna were solid.

On the milan side people are quite harsh on kaka but he only had inzaghi and pato to help him (whihc they didn't), and no support at all from the midfield. Milan have become way too reliant on him, and expected him to single-handedly win the game. Seedorf was a huge miss, but I'm sure Milan fans will still claim that pirlo (who was shite) and kaka are the only 2 creative players etc etc. Maldini was good but while the other defenders blocked shots etc they often passed it directly back to arsenal players. Ambrosini was ok, gattuso was shite, but he has been off-form for a while.

The goal from fabregas looked like a goalkeeping error from where I was sitting, hardly fast or powerful, but I have yet to see a replay. I think everyone was fooled including the keeper as arsenal had been in so many shooting opportunites and never actually shot, that no-one expected it. 2nd goal was good work from walcott. I think Milan only had the header in the beginning as a shot on target in the whole game.

amazingly once again in the media, golden boy pirlo has escaped all criticism, the Italian media has blamed kaka and pato (a 17 year old who's played a handful of games )

TS agrees with 110% shocker

I feel unwell

we probably agree on other stuff as well

we should avoid manu as a topic because for a spurs fan you seem very pro manu

110% wrote:

BoBo Vieri wrote:Most people realised how important Seedorf was last year.

Pirlo had a bad game, it doesnt mean he's a Cr@p player though.

yeah, when seedorf was allowed to play in his actual position as attacking midfielder since their attacking options were suddenly limited after sheva left

my point has always been not that pirlo is Cr@p but that he is overrated, eg somewhere on this thread someone called him "the outstanding player of the world cup" , and gone has said things like "even when he has a bad game his passing success is above 90%" (like last night I guess ). Actually that's all he does, so when he has a bad game, his passing is off and he doesn't do anything else.

great passer for sure, poor at everything else a central midfielder needs to do, needs at least 2 other players to compensate for him, a defensive midfield worker like gattuso and a playmaker ahead like kaka or totti.

he has never justified the hype to me, and that started when I saw him playing badly for Inter, he has never changed my mind even though he had a couple of good seasons with milan, i put that more down to milan being very good in defence and attack, and the gattuso-pirlo partnership working out (same for italy). I've never considered pirlo on his own to be that great a player.

btw I get tired running around in midfield, so later in the game my passing gets worse. I occassionally play alongside a floppy-haired ponce who thinks he's pirlo, he also hardly moves during the game, but thinks he's great because he makes the occasional great pass. The rest of us have to work harder to compensate for him so our passing looks worse in comparison. This is what used to happen with seedorf playing in ambrosini's position. He had to cover so much for pirlo that when he did manage to get the ball he was not able to show what he was capable of.

Agree on Seedorf. His versatility has always been abused.

I think he had a very impressive World Cup and performed beyond expectations given his club form. I agree that when he's not on it, he seems to collapse and do nothing. Not too long ago, people were calling him a choker.

Most deep lying playmakers need a DM to help them out and most teams need creativity upfront aswell.

Well I've always said Pirlo is overrated

Tweedle wrote:Well I've always said Pirlo is overrated

I've always said every player who plays for Arsenal is overrated

Yoda wrote:

Tweedle wrote:Well I've always said Pirlo is overrated

I've always said every player who plays for Arsenal is overrated

What did you think of Flamini's performance last night? He's probably worth as much as Denilson now.

Tweedle wrote:

Yoda wrote:

Tweedle wrote:Well I've always said Pirlo is overrated

I've always said every player who plays for Arsenal is overrated

What did you think of Flamini's performance last night? He's probably worth as much as Denilson now.

I think he's the best DMC in the CL.

Strange, the only big game I've seen Pirlo play well in is the World cup final.

However as we've been told you can't judge a player on one game.

110 % - would you like to argue constructively against him being the outstanding player of the World Cup rather than just:

They are slow starters usually but they did Ghana 'cos he scored a beauty and set up Big Vince with an excellent pass.

He was absolutely awesome in that game - versus Appiah, Essien and Muntari (not the easiest opponents)

He set up the goal v US with a perfect delivery.

He helped make sure that they weren't bossed too badly v Aus when they were reduced to 10 - he set up Grosso with the pass of the tournie to beat The Krauts on their own patch in a WC semi, set up the goal lin the final and coverted a pen.

Throughout the tournament he was never less than steady made some great contributions to the attack despite his deep position and was deservedly voted MOTM by FIFA for the final where, as in other games, it always seemed to take 2 or 3 opposition players to take the ball of him due to his superb close-control which freed up space for other Italians and helped them keep their heads above water versus a stronger and quicker team.

He was rubbish against the Yanks. Even Reyna played better.

Parks lives wrote:Strange, the only big game I've seen Pirlo play well in is the World cup final.

However as we've been told you can't judge a player on one game.

Have Fabregash and ronaldo even played in a big game yet ?!

Parks lives wrote:Strange, the only big game I've seen Pirlo play well in is the World cup final.

However as we've been told you can't judge a player on one game.

probably the only Pirlo game you've watched

Parks lives wrote:He was rubbish against the Yanks. Even Reyna played better.

So you win MOTM against Essien, Muntari and Appiah, you win MOTM v Zidane, Makelele, Vieira but his rubbish 'cos he didn't do great against Claudio Reyna

He made the vital contribution but didn't play that well - always been enough for Gerrard, why not Pirlo ?

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

Parks lives wrote:He was rubbish against the Yanks. Even Reyna played better.

So you win MOTM against Essien, Muntari and Appiah, you win MOTM v Zidane, Makelele, Vieira but his rubbish 'cos he didn't do great against Claudio Reyna

He made the vital contribution but didn't play that well - always been enough for Gerrard, why not Pirlo ?

I never said he was rubbish. I was pointing out he was gash against the Yanks.

Parks lives wrote:He was rubbish against the Yanks. Even Reyna played better.

He setup Gilardino's goal.

We were down to 10 men aswell.

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

Parks lives wrote:Strange, the only big game I've seen Pirlo play well in is the World cup final.

However as we've been told you can't judge a player on one game.

Have Fabregash and ronaldo even played in a big game yet ?!

If you define a big game as 'only a world cup final' then no. Otherwise, yes, they have.

Tweedle wrote:

Yoda wrote:

Tweedle wrote:Well I've always said Pirlo is overrated

I've always said every player who plays for Arsenal is overrated

What did you think of Flamini's performance last night? He's probably worth as much as Denilson now.

More seriously, Flamini did very well, but like I say, Gattuso (who was performing broadly the same role for Milan) was so poor it was hard to see. Let's just say the three for Arsenal (Hleb at the point, Fabregas and Flamini deeper) did considerably better than the Milan three (Pirlo deep, Gattuso and Ambrosini in CM) and I as I said before, this was a firstly a result of Arsenal's superior fitness.

I think it's fair to say that Flamini tends to play better in the CL. When you got to the final a couple of years ago he put in some excellent performances mainly at leftback.

What do you make of Adebayor's comment that I've got in my sig. I mean, any team can beat any team on the day, so literally speaking he's saying nothing remotely controversial. But I don't think beating a side playing as Milan did proves an awful lot.

Yoda wrote:
More seriously, Flamini did very well, but like I say, Gattuso (who was performing broadly the same role for Milan) was so poor it was hard to see. Let's just say the three for Arsenal (Hleb at the point, Fabregas and Flamini deeper) did considerably better than the Milan three (Pirlo deep, Gattuso and Ambrosini in CM) and I as I said before, this was a firstly a result of Arsenal's superior fitness.

Fitness maybe. But its also worth noting that the Arsenal players passed far more accurately than the Milan trident. Its also worth noting that the passes that Arsenal's midfield three did play were far more adeventurous than their counterparts. So fitness played a part, but its not the whole picture.

I think it's fair to say that Flamini tends to play better in the CL. When you got to the final a couple of years ago he put in some excellent performances mainly at leftback.

Possibly. I think you could argue that the CL allows DMs to thrive more, as the pace of the game tends to be more patient.

What do you make of Adebayor's comment that I've got in my sig. I mean, any team can beat any team on the day, so literally speaking he's saying nothing remotely controversial. But I don't think beating a side playing as Milan did proves an awful lot.

I'm not sure when he said it but its probably got a bit lost in translation and also he's suffering from post match euphoria.

I'm sure if he'd been given a pen and paper and put in a room with a Mozart playng stereo, he'd probably(?) have come up with something more relevant and poignant

We all know it was De Rossi who was MOTM against the USA.

Tweedle wrote:

Yoda wrote:
More seriously, Flamini did very well, but like I say, Gattuso (who was performing broadly the same role for Milan) was so poor it was hard to see. Let's just say the three for Arsenal (Hleb at the point, Fabregas and Flamini deeper) did considerably better than the Milan three (Pirlo deep, Gattuso and Ambrosini in CM) and I as I said before, this was a firstly a result of Arsenal's superior fitness.

Fitness maybe. But its also worth noting that the Arsenal players passed far more accurately than the Milan trident. Its also worth noting that the passes that Arsenal's midfield three did play were far more adeventurous than their counterparts. So fitness played a part, but its not the whole picture.

Well, they were a better combination, tactically Wenger was better than Ancelotti. Ambrosini and Gattuso were both effectively playing the same role, and neither did it very well. Whereas Arsenal's were all playing different roles. They also had better movement ahead of them which is why they had more adventurous passes available to them, but sure, they did pass the ball better. Both teams conceded possession cheaply though.

I think it's fair to say that Flamini tends to play better in the CL. When you got to the final a couple of years ago he put in some excellent performances mainly at leftback.

Possibly. I think you could argue that the CL allows DMs to thrive more, as the pace of the game tends to be more patient.

Their role becomes more important in CL games, so maybe they aren't actually playing any better, we just tend to notice them more.

What do you make of Adebayor's comment that I've got in my sig. I mean, any team can beat any team on the day, so literally speaking he's saying nothing remotely controversial. But I don't think beating a side playing as Milan did proves an awful lot.

I'm not sure when he said it but its probably got a bit lost in translation and also he's suffering from post match euphoria.

I'm sure if he'd been given a pen and paper and put in a room with a Mozart playng stereo, he'd probably(?) have come up with something more relevant and poignant

Poignant?