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    Lampard vs. Gerrard analysed

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    Post by fcb Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:03 pm

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/7656414.stm

    Some interesting graphics, but they end up confirming what we already know about these two players - Gerrard likes to play a very attacking midfield role, spraying direct passes all over that tend to be on the long side. Lampard generally makes short passes in the middle third before sprinting forward to support the strikers.

    Clearly, because Gerrard is around, Lampard is forced to curtail his attacking runs into the box. And because Lampard is around, Gerrard feels the need to "rotate" defensive duties with him...thus, both players games are affected.
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    Post by Glenarch of the Glen Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:10 pm

    has everyone seen the Headcases thing with Lampard and Gerrard trying to work together? It's hilarious.

    They sing the duet Let’s Call The Whole Thing Off but pronounce the words in identical fashion — “You say po-tay-to,” Gerrard says. “And I say po-tay-to,” Lampard echoes; they try to shift a piano in the manner of Laurel and Hardy but are found standing at the same end, causing it to cascade downstairs; when Capello proposes a trust exercise in which one man falls back and the other catches him, both men fall at the same time, landing flat on the floor.
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    Post by Brian2468 Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:13 am

    Can Capello do what other England coaches could only fail at. Read this.

    By Simon Stone, PA Sport Chief Football Writer


    Fabio Capello has vowed to play Steven Gerrard in the position he is most effective when England look to maintain their 100% start to their World Cup qualifying campaign against Kazakhstan on Saturday.

    Gerrard will win his 69th cap but estimates that he has only been used in his favourite role on five occasions.

    Capello is not too concerned about Gerrard's disquiet. In fact, as the Liverpool skipper has made only three appearances under England's new coach, the Italian jokingly wondered if he was responsible for three of the five.

    But, having come up with a slightly new formation, which will see Gerrard working in tandem with Frank Lampard - leaving Gareth Barry taking responsibility for defensive duties in midfield - Capello thinks he has found a way to solve the puzzle of why two world class talents have seemed so ill-at-ease together.

    "Tomorrow, I think you will see Steven in his long-term position," said Capello.

    "He can play in two or three positions depending on the game but I think I know where he is best."

    At various stages under Capello's predecessors Sven-Goran Eriksson and Steve McClaren, either Lampard or Gerrard have shone. But never both.

    Currently it is Lampard's star in the ascendancy, Capello's decision to use Gerrard on the left in the August friendly against the Czech Republic drawing stinging criticism from Portsmouth manager Harry Redknapp, who could see an immense talent being wasted.

    Despite the euphoria of last month's win over Croatia, which Gerrard missed after a minor groin operation, Capello must realise he does not have enough players of such talent to disregard one.

    Which is why he will continue to work at the conundrum until he unearths a solution.

    "I hope I can make it work," he said.

    "Fantastic players have to play together. I don't know why they haven't worked before. The past is not my problem. I just think about the future.

    "This kind of thing has happened a lot in my career, although always with the forwards.

    "But it's not a problem for me. I prefer to have players of this quality."

    Saturday's experiment would appear to lie in Ashley Cole's overlapping abilities on the left and those of either Wes Brown or Glen Johnson on the right.

    Against such limited opponents, with Barry holding back, Gerrard should be able to produce those surges from midfield that have been such a hallmark of his club career.

    For England's sake, it needs to work if their potential is to be realised.

    Not that Capello feels Gerrard would owe him anything even if the correct answer had been located.

    "My style is to put the players in the best position for them to give 100% to the team," said the England coach.

    "All I want Steven Gerrard to do is play like he does for Liverpool.

    "He is one of 11 players on the pitch. We win and we lose together, always."

    Now Kazakhstan are not world beaters if both players at least put in a solid performance "For The Team" it is a step in the right direction. Lampard and Gerrard are different players and should be possible to play in the same side. Capello demands more and IMO the players listen better him than the past managers.
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    Post by fcb Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:39 am

    So what does he mean by "I've found his best/long-term position and tomorrow you will see him there" - at the tip of a midfield 3, behind the attacking 3?
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    Post by Z Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:10 am

    kas wrote:So what does he mean by "I've found his best/long-term position and tomorrow you will see him there" - at the tip of a midfield 3, behind the attacking 3?

    Apparently they have been trying out a 4-3-3 in training. Barry behind Gerrard and Lampard and Rooney and Walcott supporting Heskey. Which could revert to a 4-4-2 with Gerrard on the left.
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    Post by EMP Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:29 pm

    So what do people think of Lampard/Gerrard now? Dire first half, but did it work at all in the second half when the formation was changed? What is Gerrard's best position in an England team and can he be accommodated. Capello thinks Belarus is a good team so should Gerrard/Lampard play or not?
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    Post by Kimbo Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:25 pm

    EMP wrote:So what do people think of Lampard/Gerrard now? Dire first half, but did it work at all in the second half when the formation was changed? What is Gerrard's best position in an England team and can he be accommodated. Capello thinks Belarus is a good team so should Gerrard/Lampard play or not?

    It worked when Kazakhstan got tired and turned to $h!t. Even Andy Townsend see's that he has to drop atleast one of them. Capello isn't the first to play them with a holding midfielder behind, it hasn't worked in the past and isn't going to work in the future. How many years have we had this situation now? I remember we were all banging on about it on the old 606. Even comedy shows on TV are taking the piss, and still we have managers trying to crowbar them in.
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    Post by bluenine Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:45 am

    Kimbo wrote:
    It worked when Kazakhstan got tired and turned to $h!t. Even Andy Townsend see's that he has to drop atleast one of them. Capello isn't the first to play them with a holding midfielder behind, it hasn't worked in the past and isn't going to work in the future. How many years have we had this situation now? I remember we were all banging on about it on the old 606. Even comedy shows on TV are taking the piss, and still we have managers trying to crowbar them in.

    Aw come on Kimbo... there is no rule that Gerrard+Lampard cannot work together... just coz they didn't work in the past does not mean that Capello cannot make them work! People are blaming the first half performance to the fact that Gerrard and Lampard don't work together, but then completely forget that they also played together in the second half! Just coz Gerrard+Lampard did not work for Mclaren, doesn't mean that Capello cannot get them to work. A lot of things didn't work for Mclaren, he was quite a mediocre coach. Capello is one of the best in the world, and so far his competitive record for England is not too bad (100% wins, 11 goals in 3 games)...

    Obviously he is still figuring things out. He is a thinking coach, and the home game against Kazakhstan represented an opportunity to test out the 4-3-3... IMO thats the formation which could work very well for England in the future, and one which possibly could accomodate both Lampard & Gerrard. Its very important to have a Plan B, the lack of which you must have noticed during the Mclaren reign. So IMO its a positive thing that Capello did not just start with the same formation that did well in Croatia.

    And if you know anything about Capello, you will realise that he cares nothing about past reputations.... someone who can continiously drop Del Piero at Juve does not care about fan favourites or media backlash. He just does what he thinks is the best for the team... obviously he feels that Gerrard+Lampard (if made to work in the right formation) can be hugely beneficial to England in the long run, a notion I agree with. And if Gerrard continues to play badly, Capello will be the first one to drop him, nevermind the media backlash.

    You got one of the best coaches in the world, and England are winning, I wonder what else is expected for fans/media to get behind the team??
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    Post by Ricardo Jol Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:50 am

    @Bluey,

    It takes at least a year before the English public get behind the team again. The English European trauma is not over yet...

    Remember, Mclaren's record in the beginning wasn't also too bad with a 5-0 victory over the European Champions Greece. So sceptism isn't that strange because what does it all mean if they lose the next game? Though, in my opinion England will easily qualify this time and they will reach at least the quarters of the World Cup.

    I haven't watched the England squad so far so I can't judged on what tactics Capello is all about. Though, it seems to be he is not trying to force heavy changes in the team.

    I am curious if he can make a decision between Lampard or Gerrard when it is needed. Having said this, I think the EMB (England) fans are too much focussing on the Lampard Gerrad debate. England are more than only Gerrard and Lampard.
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    Post by Football Genius Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:32 am

    Ricardo Jol wrote:@Bluey,

    It takes at least a year before the English public get behind the team again. The English European trauma is not over yet...

    Remember, Mclaren's record in the beginning wasn't also too bad with a 5-0 victory over the European Champions Greece. So sceptism isn't that strange because what does it all mean if they lose the next game? Though, in my opinion England will easily qualify this time and they will reach at least the quarters of the World Cup.

    I haven't watched the England squad so far so I can't judged on what tactics Capello is all about. Though, it seems to be he is not trying to force heavy changes in the team.

    I am curious if he can make a decision between Lampard or Gerrard when it is needed. Having said this, I think the EMB (England) fans are too much focussing on the Lampard Gerrad debate. England are more than only Gerrard and Lampard.

    Then shut the f@ck up you fat dutch Pr!ck, you're an embarrassment to your country Ale
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    Post by Ricardo Jol Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:36 am

    Football Genius wrote:
    Ricardo Jol wrote:@Bluey,

    It takes at least a year before the English public get behind the team again. The English European trauma is not over yet...

    Remember, Mclaren's record in the beginning wasn't also too bad with a 5-0 victory over the European Champions Greece. So sceptism isn't that strange because what does it all mean if they lose the next game? Though, in my opinion England will easily qualify this time and they will reach at least the quarters of the World Cup.

    I haven't watched the England squad so far so I can't judged on what tactics Capello is all about. Though, it seems to be he is not trying to force heavy changes in the team.

    I am curious if he can make a decision between Lampard or Gerrard when it is needed. Having said this, I think the EMB (England) fans are too much focussing on the Lampard Gerrad debate. England are more than only Gerrard and Lampard.

    Then shut the f@ck up you fat dutch Pr!ck Ale
    Why are you so upset? didn't you sleep well? I have seen enough on England to form an opinion. I'm sorry
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    Post by Football Genius Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:40 am

    You haven't seen ANY of England to form an opinion...typical of you Ricardo...

    Shout your mouth off over something you admittidly know nothing about, your own words... "I haven't watched the England squad so far so I can't judged"

    You're a fucking wanker who forms an opinion on games you don't even watch, the only hope is you get hit by a fucking large bus today... or tomorrow...

    Ale
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    Post by Ricardo Jol Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:56 am

    Football Genius wrote:You haven't seen ANY of England to form an opinion...typical of you Ricardo...

    Shout your mouth off over something you admittidly know nothing about, your own words... "I haven't watched the England squad so far so I can't judged"

    You're a fucking wanker who forms an opinion on games you don't even watch, the only hope is you get hit by a fucking large bus today... or tomorrow...

    Ale
    I clearly didn't form an opinion on the Kazakhstan game because I didn't see it. And, you are accusing me for having a opinion on the Kazakhstan game.... erm… strange…

    This debate on Gerrard and Lampard is as old as the way to Rome. So from information of the past and knowing the qualities of most of the English players I can form a decent opinion. You probably haven't read it but I also didn't write on things I can't know about so I don't know why I hurt your feelings this morning.

    Is it because Liverpool are in stormy weather these days? I tell you I really hope an institute like Liverpool won't collapse! It is still one of the most beautiful clubs in English history despite their anti-football from the last couple of years.... Ale
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    Post by Football Genius Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:00 am

    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL LOOK AT THE PREMIERSHIP TABLE CLOWN
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    Post by Ricardo Jol Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:06 am

    Football Genius wrote:LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL LOOK AT THE PREMIERSHIP TABLE CLOWN
    I did, well done! ok But I ensure you also to look at the current financial state of the club!

    Anyway, lets get back on topic !
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    Post by Football Genius Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:11 am

    Ricardo Jol wrote:
    Football Genius wrote:LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL LOOK AT THE PREMIERSHIP TABLE CLOWN
    I did, well done! ok But I ensure you also to look at the current financial state of the club!

    Anyway, lets get back on topic !

    Yeah Liverp0-0l are in dire straights.... hence why we're doing so well

    Go f@ck a dirty dutch turk you fucking aids victim ok
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    Post by Football Genius Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:14 am

    * Waits* - Banned.....
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    Post by Rosicky Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:16 am

    Been on the sauce FG...?
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    Post by Ricardo Jol Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:17 am

    Football Genius wrote:* Waits* - Banned.....

    I hope not you are very amusing on this silenced sunday morning! Laughing
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    Post by Z Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:17 am

    bluenine wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:
    It worked when Kazakhstan got tired and turned to $h!t. Even Andy Townsend see's that he has to drop atleast one of them. Capello isn't the first to play them with a holding midfielder behind, it hasn't worked in the past and isn't going to work in the future. How many years have we had this situation now? I remember we were all banging on about it on the old 606. Even comedy shows on TV are taking the piss, and still we have managers trying to crowbar them in.


    Aw come on Kimbo... there is no rule that Gerrard+Lampard cannot work together... just coz they didn't work in the past does not mean that Capello cannot make them work! People are blaming the first half performance to the fact that Gerrard and Lampard don't work together, but then completely forget that they also played together in the second half! Just coz Gerrard+Lampard did not work for Mclaren, doesn't mean that Capello cannot get them to work. A lot of things didn't work for Mclaren, he was quite a mediocre coach. Capello is one of the best in the world, and so far his competitive record for England is not too bad (100% wins, 11 goals in 3 games)...

    Obviously he is still figuring things out. He is a thinking coach, and the home game against Kazakhstan represented an opportunity to test out the 4-3-3... IMO thats the formation which could work very well for England in the future, and one which possibly could accomodate both Lampard & Gerrard. Its very important to have a Plan B, the lack of which you must have noticed during the Mclaren reign. So IMO its a positive thing that Capello did not just start with the same formation that did well in Croatia.

    And if you know anything about Capello, you will realise that he cares nothing about past reputations.... someone who can continiously drop Del Piero at Juve does not care about fan favourites or media backlash. He just does what he thinks is the best for the team... obviously he feels that Gerrard+Lampard (if made to work in the right formation) can be hugely beneficial to England in the long run, a notion I agree with. And if Gerrard continues to play badly, Capello will be the first one to drop him, nevermind the media backlash.

    You got one of the best coaches in the world, and England are winning, I wonder what else is expected for fans/media to get behind the team??

    Impossible to answer, there's no rationale behind their behaviour.

    Also Sven tried Lampard-Gerrard, didn't work. Just leave Gerrard on the bench.
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    Post by Football Genius Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:22 am

    Rosicky wrote:Been on the sauce FG...?

    Not been bed yet, 12g of coke - bottle of whiskey later..... here i am Ale

    Thank god for Sundays ok
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    Post by Ricardo Jol Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:42 am

    Football Genius wrote:
    Rosicky wrote:Been on the sauce FG...?

    Not been bed yet, 12g of coke - bottle of whiskey later..... here i am Ale

    Thank god for Sundays ok

    Not surprising... I already thought you were completely ill!
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    Post by Football Genius Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:46 am

    Ricardo Jol wrote:
    Football Genius wrote:
    Rosicky wrote:Been on the sauce FG...?

    Not been bed yet, 12g of coke - bottle of whiskey later..... here i am Ale

    Thank god for Sundays ok

    Not surprising... I already thought you were completely ill!

    To be fair Ricuntdo... i do have man flu too ok

    The only illness here is your niavity What a Face drunken bom
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    Post by Ricardo Jol Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:52 am

    Football Genius wrote:
    Ricardo Jol wrote:
    Football Genius wrote:
    Rosicky wrote:Been on the sauce FG...?

    Not been bed yet, 12g of coke - bottle of whiskey later..... here i am Ale

    Thank god for Sundays ok

    Not surprising... I already thought you were completely ill!

    To be fair Ricuntdo... i do have man flu too ok

    The only illness here is your niavity What a Face drunken bom

    In your *strange* world it might be...
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    Post by Football Genius Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:57 am

    Says the man who doesn't even watch the games... Doh

    I'm fucked yet make more sense than you.... Pretty much sums you up?

    Don't you think? LLama
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    Post by Ricardo Jol Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:00 pm

    If I step into your world you have more sense than me...

    .....But your world is clearly out of this world....

    end off...
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    Post by Football Genius Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:01 pm

    Ricardo Jol wrote:If I step into your world you have more sense than me...

    .....But your world is clearly out of this world....

    end off...

    cheers affraid lol!
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    Post by Fade out Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:21 pm

    Out of Lampard and Gerrard, I'd start Lampard. If the team plays well, Lampard plays well. If the team doesn't work, I'd bring Gerrard for last 30 minutes. Because he is capable of scoring out of blue when the whole team is $h!t! Just the way he does it for Liverpool time and again.
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    Post by bluenine Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:29 pm

    Z wrote:
    bluenine wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:
    It worked when Kazakhstan got tired and turned to $h!t. Even Andy Townsend see's that he has to drop atleast one of them. Capello isn't the first to play them with a holding midfielder behind, it hasn't worked in the past and isn't going to work in the future. How many years have we had this situation now? I remember we were all banging on about it on the old 606. Even comedy shows on TV are taking the piss, and still we have managers trying to crowbar them in.


    Aw come on Kimbo... there is no rule that Gerrard+Lampard cannot work together... just coz they didn't work in the past does not mean that Capello cannot make them work! People are blaming the first half performance to the fact that Gerrard and Lampard don't work together, but then completely forget that they also played together in the second half! Just coz Gerrard+Lampard did not work for Mclaren, doesn't mean that Capello cannot get them to work. A lot of things didn't work for Mclaren, he was quite a mediocre coach. Capello is one of the best in the world, and so far his competitive record for England is not too bad (100% wins, 11 goals in 3 games)...

    Obviously he is still figuring things out. He is a thinking coach, and the home game against Kazakhstan represented an opportunity to test out the 4-3-3... IMO thats the formation which could work very well for England in the future, and one which possibly could accomodate both Lampard & Gerrard. Its very important to have a Plan B, the lack of which you must have noticed during the Mclaren reign. So IMO its a positive thing that Capello did not just start with the same formation that did well in Croatia.

    And if you know anything about Capello, you will realise that he cares nothing about past reputations.... someone who can continiously drop Del Piero at Juve does not care about fan favourites or media backlash. He just does what he thinks is the best for the team... obviously he feels that Gerrard+Lampard (if made to work in the right formation) can be hugely beneficial to England in the long run, a notion I agree with. And if Gerrard continues to play badly, Capello will be the first one to drop him, nevermind the media backlash.

    You got one of the best coaches in the world, and England are winning, I wonder what else is expected for fans/media to get behind the team??

    Impossible to answer, there's no rationale behind their behaviour.

    Also Sven tried Lampard-Gerrard, didn't work. Just leave Gerrard on the bench.

    I know Z, but what I am trying to say is that every coach tries a different system, and it will take time for all of us to find out whether gerrard+lampard works in Capello's system... you just cannot make a rule out of these things, its different for different coaches with different tactical philosophies. Gerrard is one of the best midfielders in England, and Capello will try hard to blend him into the team.

    I see Capello trying some things that worked well during the Sven era... the Mclaren phase is already behind & forgotten. Also it is important that Capello finds out 2-3 different systems which work, before the world cup... so its good that he is experimenting in the easy home games. The Italian style of coaching differs a lot from what you usually find in this country, and tactical variations are very important.

    Let me leave you with a thought - I will be very surprised if it was a coincidence yesterday that England played an open attacking formation in the last 30 minutes just when the Kazakhs started getting tired. Don't be too surprised if it was all pre-planned. Italian coaches think a lot about these things... am certain Capello is claiming that as a tactical victory.

    What I like about the Capello formation so far (which has worked so far) is that the attacking options are very clear (and good)... Theo+Becks on the right, J Cole+SWP on the left, and Rooney & Heskey in the middle. Thats working out pretty well. People keep saying that when J Cole is back then Capello will have a question to answer. I disagree, it will fit in well. Its when Hargreaves is back is when Capello will have a question to resolve.... and I think he may experiment a bit then.
    Kimbo
    Kimbo


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    Lampard vs. Gerrard analysed Empty Re: Lampard vs. Gerrard analysed

    Post by Kimbo Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:39 pm

    Things worked in the 2nd half because Kazakhstan got tired and ragged, and even if that is what Capello was waiting for i'm not impressed, you are suggesting that he had to wear Kazakhstan down to beat them.... at home.

    Capello is doing fine so far, the players obviously still don't give a $h!t, but Capello is doing fine as his job is to get results. He is making some bizarre decisions though which i'm sure will cost him against the big boys. I don't know what he thinks he's achieving by leaving out Young, Owen, and Richards, and why Beckham still gets trotted out i don't know, but it isn't very impressive. Also, Gerrard and Lampard WILL NOT work, i would bet my life on it, i really would. Persoinally i think he should think about dropping both, nevermind one of them.

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