Joe Kinnear - Newcastle Manager until the end of the season

The club have announced the news:

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1469731,00.html

The media, world and local, who have long been following the story, have reported it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/n/newcastle_united/7754312.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/nov/28/joe-kinnear-contract-extension-newcastle

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/nufc/newcastle-united-news/2008/11/28/kinnear-handed-control-of-nufc-until-end-of-season-72703-22361584/

It's not that surprising - whatever speculation there has been in the press; whatever Keith Harris's often conflicting comments; whatever Joe Kinnear's pretty irritating and disrespectful and cryptic remarks, a sale before January has looked unlikely for some time. With January coming too early, any sale is now likely to occur during the summer at the earliest (and that is if a sale does actually go through at some point; if Ashley is still committed to selling the club) - so it makes some sense to appoint Kinnear until the end of the season.

I'm not particularly happy with this outcome. I think it means that we are going to be battling relegation for the rest of the season - whereas in an ideal situation, with a new owner and a half decent manager, I think we could, in time, have pulled away from the relegation battle and ended the season relatively comfortably. Part of me wonders as to Ashley's true intentions - I question how keen he is on selling the club; and I wonder how close we've really come to selling it, and how many people have really been interested in buying us (is it the case that we've really known for months that a sale wasn't going to happen anytime soon?). If Kinnear was the best manager we could attract to a very short term position, I think we maybe could have made a better longer term appointment - though I guess the job is still ultimately a temporary one, and changing managers again now would potentially destabilise things again.

Kinnear hasn't particularly impressed me since we appointed him. He's brought some necessary stability, and the team seems united again, and on occasion, he's looked decent tactically. But he has been very negative; we've been very inconsistent and overall our results haven't been great; unless we just sit all game (as we did against Chelsea), the defence seems disorganized; and our attack isn't gelling at all, the players don't link well, we don't move harmoniously. He seems already to have his favourites - he's called Barton and Butt the heart of the team, whilst personally I wonder whether either deserve a place in the first team; and he doesn't really seem to rate N'Zogbia. I've also found a lot of Kinnear's comments annoying and even disrespectful in the way they've led the fans on. Of course, he's been trying to keep himself in the job, and the hope is that our style of play will improve now that he has the job until the end of the season.

The other issue regards what happens in January. We need players in, but, apparently, we need to sell before we buy (that shouldn't be the case, but apparently it is). It is difficult to see which players we could sell for any sort of money - we have a host of players, including Owen, Butt, Ameobi, Harper, Cacapa, who are out of contract at the end of the season; the likes of Barton and Smith won't be fit enough to be sold; Kinnear has said that he doesn't want to sell N'Zogbia, and it is difficult to see us letting our few good players, Given, Martins, Gutierrez, leave. We may be in for a nasty surprise, or else we simply won't do much at all in January.

So far, Kinnear has raised the possibility of bringing in Riise from Roma on a £2 million loan deal until the end of the season (which is uninspiring, and £2 million seems a ridiculous amount of money for that); and he has pondered loaning a range of Arsenal players, before realising that all the players he has pondered are currently playing for the Arsenal first team, and therefore will not be loaned to us. Onwards and upwards, Joe Kinnear! We could really do with cover for right back, centre back and left back, but one good versatile defender would probably do us; we need a right midfielder; and we need some quality and creativity in the centre of midfield.

I'm bored of everyone questioning if Ashley really wants to sell the club. Why wouldn't he? Look around you, what reason could there be for an expensive football club not being sold? Why are other available, and cheaper, clubs also not being sold? Are their owners also evil Blofeld wannabes that hate children, especially orphans?

Kinnear is the only one that would come here under the circumstances, and no matter who came in we would be in a relegation battle, he has done ok so far and will probably keep us up. So unfortunately i'm left with nothing to kick off about and no one to vilify, which as a Newcastle fan leaves me at a bit of a loose end.

Sven will be available soon, once he's completed the demolition job of Mexico's footballing pride.

Given that Ashley says so little in public, and that a significant portion of what he has said since he became our owner has turned out to be deceitful (his comments regarding Keegan's role in transfers, regarding the money available to Keegan, the messages regarding Wise's role with the club) I think his motives and intentions will naturally be questioned from now on - his silence encourages speculation, and his past actions don't make him particularly trustworthy in a lot of people's eyes.

Obviously, nobody can expect the club to be sold easily with the economy as it is - but if people are inclined to question Ashley's intentions, this inclination has probably been exacerbated by some apparently conflicting comments from Keith Harris (sometimes he says the sale is going really well, sometimes there are a number of very serious parties interested, and other times nothing is happening or is likely to happen - and this is probably in the nature of selling a club, especially at this moment, but it still muddies the situation a little bit); by Kinnear's cryptic comments and his setting of deadlines; and by the suggestions that Ashley wants £50-150 million more for the club than he's put into it, which would seem to make any sale particularly difficult.

I agree with you, Kimbo - Kinnear was the best manager we could get under the circumstances, and in retrospect, as you suggested at the time, we did need a manager on whatever basis to steady the ship. And I don't think he's done too badly, but like I say, I don't think he's done particularly well either - we have been very up and down, and our lack of cohesion in attack particularly concerns me. I do think that with a decent manager we could have steered ourselves clear of the relegation battle this season; with Kinnear, I don't expect that to happen - I think we will battle against relegation all season. Whilst Kinnear can't be blamed for our inconsistency, nor even for some negative football, because we do have to battle first and foremost at the moment, still, we aren't in a good situation and there's nothing to be pleased or satisfied with about the situation we are in.

What are your thoughts for January? Do you think we're okay as we are; or who do you think we will look to sell if we do want to make some changes?

Think Kinnear is doing all right. You're not leaking goals. You have players who can create goals. Midfield is a bit lacking but otherwise a decent team.

After Christmas I think we will see which teams will fight to avoid relegation till the end of the season. You have already played 3 of the big four already (picking up two points) I don't see Newcastle fighting to avoid relegation.

Bashmachkin wrote:What are your thoughts for January? Do you think we're okay as we are; or who do you think we will look to sell if we do want to make some changes?

I think we need to bring in some players, and Kinnear has gone public saying he's interested in Riise, and WAS interested in Song and Djourou. So he obviously wants a LB, CB, and maybe a DM. We've been linked to some interesting players, bar Riise, so Kinnear seems to be on the right lines. Lots of them have been youngsters like Delph, O'Toole, some greek kid, and Skjelbred. It all depends on if he has money to spend and if players will be willing to come, there should be some money after "2 assists" got sold for £12m though.

I've no idea who he will want to sell, apart from Smith we shouldn't look to sell anyone, we don't have the numbers. If i was going to guess i would say Enrique(although he says there's no way he'll leave), Geremi, Xisco, and Cacapa would all be in danger.

I think the main danger someone like Martins getting tempted with a move in January should someone come in for him. The likes of him, Jonas & Given are the difference between Newcastle and the other sides down the bottom. If they hang onto everyone and bring a couple of loan deals (no point in perma signings, if Kinnear unlikely to be here next season) they should steer clear of a major relegation fight, probably finish 11-14th.

Kimbo - "2 assists" already has 3 assists for Villa. And this without playing particularly well. Should get 8-10 for the season at this rate..It's all a matter of having better players to provide for

debaser wrote:I think the main danger someone like Martins getting tempted with a move in January should someone come in for him. The likes of him, Jonas & Given are the difference between Newcastle and the other sides down the bottom. If they hang onto everyone and bring a couple of loan deals (no point in perma signings, if Kinnear unlikely to be here next season) they should steer clear of a major relegation fight, probably finish 11-14th.

Martins would cost alot and i can't see any big transfers happening in this window, apart from at Man City. Hughes will want some more talent to waste.

I don't think there's any harm in bringing in cheap young'uns, if they don't work you can easily move them on.

debaser wrote:Kimbo - "2 assists" already has 3 assists for Villa. And this without playing particularly well. Should get 8-10 for the season at this rate..It's all a matter of having better players to provide for

Well that says it all doesn't it. Milner has had decent numbers in previous seasons, but it doesn't matter, as he will never be good enough to be a first team player in a top 4 side. IMO he has almost fulfilled his potential, he's not going to get much better. You got ripped off.

Don't see how young players make sense. You want to shore up areas that deficient so will really be looking for some experience.

Khadrim wrote:Don't see how young players make sense. You want to shore up areas that deficient so will really be looking for some experience.

It's the experienced players that give us bother and keep fucking up. Give me 2 Bassongs over 10 Butts anyday.

Not gonna argue with that. But I can still see Kinnear looking for experience especially two million for a loan when you can buy some decent players for that amount.

Kimbo wrote:

debaser wrote:Kimbo - "2 assists" already has 3 assists for Villa. And this without playing particularly well. Should get 8-10 for the season at this rate..It's all a matter of having better players to provide for

Well that says it all doesn't it. Milner has had decent numbers in previous seasons, but it doesn't matter, as he will never be good enough to be a first team player in a top 4 side. IMO he has almost fulfilled his potential, he's not going to get much better. You got ripped off.

Overpriced, no doubt about it. But the guy's 22/23, he may've stagnated at Newcastle, but that doesn't mean he's finished.

We're not leaking goals at a rapid rate, but we are still conceding too many and we are conceding some poor goals - we have let in two goals in six of Kinnear's nine matches in charge, including two against Blackburn, Sunderland, Fulham and Wigan (who are all at least potential relegation candidates, even if I think Fulham and Wigan will be okay), and we also looked shaky in the second half of our home game against West Brom.

We have what look like three very capable central defenders, but the trick will be in getting the defence to gel, and in determining which players should play together. Coloccini looks really top class at times, as he's comfortable on the ball and can read a game played in front of him exceedingly well, but he sits a bit and gets caught flat footed; Taylor is good in the air, he's strong, he's quick, and he's also very capable with the ball, but he's poor positionally, and he and Coloccini sometimes haven't seemed to compliment each other; Bassong looks very solid, though he has only played the one game at centre back so far.

I don't think one decent, experienced central defender would go amiss - perhaps if we did bring in someone with enough quality, we could use Taylor as cover for right back, because otherwise we lack cover there too. On the other hand, Taylor is one player who perhaps isn't essential to our first eleven and who could possibily be sold for decent money (I wouldn't like to sell him, and I struggle to see him going, but like I say, we have few saleable players).

At left back, I like Enrique - he's inconsistent, but he shows flashes of quality, and looks potentially a very good all-round player- though again he's someone who could possibly be sold. Riise on a loan isn't the worst idea, because he would be a more attacking option at left back, but I wouldn't want him as our first choice player there, and £2 million seems a ridiculous sum to pay for him on loan (even if that money included some option on buying him further down the line).

Djourou, Song, Denilson are all nice players, but I really can't see Arsenal letting any of them go - it seems foolish for Kinnear to bring them up. I do think we need more creativity in the midfield, and a right winger would be useful too.