Kaka' Rossonero! Ciao Manchester City!

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

Effenberg wrote:Let's keep our feet on the ground. We shouldn't forget the insane amount Kaka makes even at Milan (plus merchandising). He won't be able to spend all that money anyway.

It's not like a beggar turned down 15mil a year, but somebody who's making 10mil already!

So, I think sainthood should wait a little longer.

And, by the way, if he didn't have to think about it for thirty seconds, then why did this story last 4-5 days? He could have just told everybody last week. No reason for all these meetings with City either.

I agree with most of this post, actually.

To be fair, I think the delay was because there was still no formal meeting between his dad, Galliani and Berlusconi. So nobody knew exactly what each other's positions were. It's best that he stays quiet amongst it all...the actions after the match on Saturday were probably a "just in case" if he did get sold to City against his wishes.

Grande Ricky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNJQwHN9lyw

I also don't see Kaká turning down City as such a big deal. Kaká deserves credit for turning down the likes of Real Madrid in the past, though he only did it after he got a nice salary increase.

He may have gotten offered an obscene amount of money by City, but they are a second rate team with a second rate manager. This is a team that is also not likely to play in the CL for at least another 2-3 years. Kaká's endorsement deals would have surely suffered from such a move, and his football career would have severely deteriorated.

Torrente wrote:I also don't see Kaká turning down City as such a big deal. Kaká deserves credit for turning down the likes of Real Madrid in the past, though he only did it after he got a nice salary increase.

He may have gotten offered an obscene amount of money by City, but they are a second rate team with a second rate manager. This is a team that is also not likely to play in the CL for at least another 2-3 years. Kaká's endorsement deals would have surely suffered from such a move, and his football career would have severely deteriorated.

When you consider it's Kaka', it's not a big deal. But when you compare him to the likes of Robinho and maybe even Ibra, then it is. There seems to be no loyalty in football, and for Milan to eventually not force Kaka' to accept the offer (lose out on 130 million, even saying it sounds insane), and for Kaka' to turn down the wages (after having won everything at club level) is something to cheer about. Lastly, Kaka's dad was using the interest to get Milan to give his son another raise. All this made the decision by Milan and Kaka' fairly remarkable, though not as much as the media is making it out to be.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

Torrente wrote:I also don't see Kaká turning down City as such a big deal. Kaká deserves credit for turning down the likes of Real Madrid in the past, though he only did it after he got a nice salary increase.

He may have gotten offered an obscene amount of money by City, but they are a second rate team with a second rate manager. This is a team that is also not likely to play in the CL for at least another 2-3 years. Kaká's endorsement deals would have surely suffered from such a move, and his football career would have severely deteriorated.

When you consider it's Kaka', it's not a big deal. But when you compare him to the likes of Robinho and maybe even Ibra, then it is. There seems to be no loyalty in football, and for Milan to eventually not force Kaka' to accept the offer (lose out on 130 million, even saying it sounds insane), and for Kaka' to turn down the wages (after having won everything at club level) is something to cheer about. Lastly, Kaka's dad was using the interest to get Milan to give his son another raise. All this made the decision by Milan and Kaka' fairly remarkable, though not as much as the media is making it out to be.

The guy already is a multimillionaire : what does he cares if he gets a few million more or less ?!

It would have surprised me if he would have gone to City because of the money

The only possible reason could have been that he was no longer happy at Milan or that he relished the chance to captain a new and emerging superpower *cough*

I think a lot of people here talking about the so called "moral issues" are using a different yardstick to judge Kaka, than what they probably use for themselves. Its easy to talk about others, just try and put yourselves in his shoes for a bit.

Imagine if someone offers you almost double your current salary, maybe a smaller company than the one you currently work for, will that not make you think?? Personally, I think its only human to consider such an offer, no matter what you are earning. Double the money will always be double the money, no matter what you are earning. For someone earning 30 or 50K a year, it may be difficult to imagine that double the money for him is the same as double the money for someone earling 8M a year, but IMO it is always the same.

You have to respect the kid for turning this down, whether on basis of loyalty or success in career or both. Kaka is an intelligent kid, his game reflects this as well - everything he does, or says, its after thinking it over. Its a sensible approach to life. Why would anyone have an issue if he thought this one over before he took his decision??

I don't agree with your motion that earning double is always double. It simply isn't. The reason doubling somebody's money is often quite attractive is because it allows for more stability in ones life. That is because assuming that you don't waste alot of money getting some 8 mil a year will provide the safety needed for you for the rest of your life and perhaps even your kids life. Like I said unless you have high expenditure(sp?) then there will be a point where no more is really needed.

Of course I don't really know whether or not Kaka has plans after football. It is certainly not unthinkable that he had some charity in mind and from that perspective I would understand it. When Ronaldo was tempted last year people called him a mecenary but I don't think he is out for the money as much as out for the status of being the highest paid player.

Anyway im just happy that Kaka stayed and it does for me at least prove there is a bit of loyalty left in football. If Berlu did manifacture then it instead proves how little integrity there is left. Either way great for Milan because they keep the best player in the world where he should be.

But bluenine, in our careers, money is often the only thing we can achieve, unless a higher salary means a better job with managerial responsibilities. For footballers, it's about achievements on the pitch as well...so for Kaka to move from one of the top clubs in the world to a nothing club with no chance of glory is a disastrous decision. Akin to you leaving a stable company for one in bankruptcy, unless you enjoy that kind of challenge, which some people do, but I doubt was on Kaka's mind.

Of course, that's just one point. Another argument raised is that footballers only have a 10-15 year career to take care of their and their family's future, and of course it could be ended any time by injury.

kas wrote:But bluenine, in our careers, money is often the only thing we can achieve, unless a higher salary means a better job with managerial responsibilities. For footballers, it's about achievements on the pitch as well...so for Kaka to move from one of the top clubs in the world to a nothing club with no chance of glory is a disastrous decision. Akin to you leaving a stable company for one in bankruptcy, unless you enjoy that kind of challenge, which some people do, but I doubt was on Kaka's mind.

Of course, that's just one point. Another argument raised is that footballers only have a 10-15 year career to take care of their and their family's future, and of course it could be ended any time by injury.

There are differences, but in the end, the basic fcators are similar.

@SM, you are 19? Maybe thats why you think like that. When I was in college, I had an impression of a job which would make me financially happy forever. I got that job, and in two years my idea of what was the salary/money that woudl make me happy completely changed. I am now earning many times what I earned in my first job, and know what, double the money is still double the money.

It is very difficult for me as well to imagine that double the money is still this important when you are earning £8M a year. But you know what, when I was 19, I couldn't imagine double the money would be this important when you earn £100K+ per year. But it does. Thats why I am saying that please don't assume that money is not a factor for even players like Kaka. It is hard for us to imagine, but I am quite certain that double the money means a lot to even Kaka. There is always that bigger house or better lifestyle, etc. As kas pointed out, a footballers life is short, he has to make the money in 10-15 years that will last him a lifetime.

Yes im 19 and perhaps it does have something to do with my opinion.
Like I only if you have high expenditure is money really a worry when you are going on 10 mil on salery plus the other money he gets.
On the page on the Prem board it was mentioned that there were talks about humanitarian causes. If this is true then I most certainly understand him because I would have thought just as hard about it. When it is the greater good I could care less about what fans think of me.

bluenine wrote:I think a lot of people here talking about the so called "moral issues" are using a different yardstick to judge Kaka, than what they probably use for themselves. Its easy to talk about others, just try and put yourselves in his shoes for a bit.

I would never take a job for more money. I have had the opportunity to almost double my salary. I turned it down. Some people are different, bluenine.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

bluenine wrote:I think a lot of people here talking about the so called "moral issues" are using a different yardstick to judge Kaka, than what they probably use for themselves. Its easy to talk about others, just try and put yourselves in his shoes for a bit.

I would never take a job for more money. I have had the opportunity to almost double my salary. I turned it down. Some people are different, bluenine.

If you rejected it without considering it, then you are truely different. Perhaps you are extremely happy with your current job.

But if I get an offer which doubles my salary, I will very carefully evaluate it. I will not accept or reject it outright. And I think Kaka did the right thing to think about it, sleep over it, and then took his decision.

Double the money is double the money?

No, it's not.

If one of us changes jobs to make 6,000 instead of 3,000€ it is certainly very different from somebody who can go from having more than he can spend to even more than he can spend.

bluenine wrote:

kas wrote:But bluenine, in our careers, money is often the only thing we can achieve, unless a higher salary means a better job with managerial responsibilities. For footballers, it's about achievements on the pitch as well...so for Kaka to move from one of the top clubs in the world to a nothing club with no chance of glory is a disastrous decision. Akin to you leaving a stable company for one in bankruptcy, unless you enjoy that kind of challenge, which some people do, but I doubt was on Kaka's mind.

Of course, that's just one point. Another argument raised is that footballers only have a 10-15 year career to take care of their and their family's future, and of course it could be ended any time by injury.

There are differences, but in the end, the basic fcators are similar.

@SM, you are 19? Maybe thats why you think like that. When I was in college, I had an impression of a job which would make me financially happy forever. I got that job, and in two years my idea of what was the salary/money that woudl make me happy completely changed. I am now earning many times what I earned in my first job, and know what, double the money is still double the money.

You can have your double money and keep it

Been there done that : I've gone back to a more fun job for less pay and don't regret it.

...and for me it still matters, the difference between 4M and 8M per year is nonsense : it's like having enough for 5 lifetimes or for 10 lifetimes.

Effenberg wrote:Double the money is double the money?

No, it's not.

If one of us changes jobs to make 6,000 instead of 3,000€ it is certainly very different from somebody who can go from having more than he can spend to even more than he can spend.

Exactly. A while ago RVP said in an interview something like I already have my dream car & beautiful house, etc. money can't make me change club.

Effenberg wrote:Double the money is double the money?

No, it's not.

If one of us changes jobs to make 6,000 instead of 3,000€ it is certainly very different from somebody who can go from having more than he can spend to even more than he can spend.

I agree with you. Football is also a special case not easily comparable to other jobs. Football is strongly linked to success, public image, commercial image, etc.

If for instance somebody was working for Microsoft and they get their salary doubled by a small, relatively unsuccessful company, they don't lose much by taking the job in terms of image. Their job is less prestigious, but it's not like anyone associated their face with Microsoft anyway since he worked behind the scenes. By telling other people that he makes twice as much as in his previous job will shut anyone up, even if their new company generates a fraction of the revenue that Microsoft did.

In football it's not that simple. The success of your employer is directly reflected on you. Look at Robinho. He's playing as good as he can in Manchester City and earning 3 times his salary in Madrid, but he's lost a lot of prestige because of it. Barely anybody respects him, even in Brasil. If City doesn't win any trophies in his stay there (which is likely), then he will go down as a big loser.

It's the same with Kaka. He knew that if he went to City, there goes his prestige. Struggling to make the UEFA Cup would make him look like a loser, even if he did everything he could for his team to win the league or qualify for the CL.

And as I mentioned before, a lot of his multimillion Euro contracts with the likes of Armani would have suffered, since they don't want their promoters to be struggling in second rate clubs.

Football has a lot to do with image and legacy, unlike regular jobs. Nobody will be discussing 20 years from now what an idiot you were for switching companies. While in football, future generations would have surely been discussing Kaka's foolishness in going to Man City.

Effenberg wrote:Double the money is double the money?

No, it's not.

If one of us changes jobs to make 6,000 instead of 3,000€ it is certainly very different from somebody who can go from having more than he can spend to even more than he can spend.

It depends on ones ambitions in life. As it was suggested in the prem thread it was reportedly negotiated that humanitarian things would be included so there is more aspects to this then we can really bother to look at it because it doesn't fit our " He is a mecenary" image that fans love to shout at players.

Just like when players fail at one club there could be several other reasons then the player simply not being good enough.

Money isn't everything, although it can mean so much in your life. I'm beeing a little philosophic about this, but i quit a job in Holland where i was earning 9-10 times more than i'm earning here in Skopje.
And i returned.
I have a family here, i have a job here and i have everything that matters here.
Kaka's case didn't had to do anything with Kaka, but with his father, his agent and Galliani and Berllusconi.
All of them wanted the transfer to go through, but Kaka himself didn't, which only means that money wasn't so important for him. If he only for a moment stated openly that he will consider that move, the transfer would have been done.
And there's another twist to this story. Kaka is willing to go to Madrid. RM knows this and they will definitely make a go at him in the summer. At least, they now know that they can negotiate with Milan at a certain price. And if they reach an agreement, Kaka will accept it.

That twist was already predicted way earlier. Anything can happen, but after yesterday it seems Kaka' is staying for good. I don't think Berlusconi (who is really into himself) would sell Kaka' after all that staged drama yesterday.

Every summer (since 2006) people have been saying Kaka will leave. In 2006 everyone was sure because of Calciopoli. In 2007, everyone was sure because Kaka had won everything. In 2008, he was going to because Milan didn't make the CL.

The only thing we can do is wait, summer by summer. I just don't see it happening.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:That twist was already predicted way earlier. Anything can happen, but after yesterday it seems Kaka' is staying for good. I don't think Berlusconi (who is really into himself) would sell Kaka' after all that staged drama yesterday.

Every summer (since 2006) people have been saying Kaka will leave. In 2006 everyone was sure because of Calciopoli. In 2007, everyone was sure because Kaka had won everything. In 2008, he was going to because Milan didn't make the CL.

The only thing we can do is wait, summer by summer. I just don't see it happening.

Yes I agree that this time it just won't happen. Allthough I remember a similar situation with Viera where he claimed his love for Arsenal, only to leave the following season.
Had Milan been punished like it was meant to be at first with no Cl I think Kaka would have been transfered to be honest which is why that made me quite made that it didn't happen. Also last year was spent on trying to get Ronaldo. Hopefully Ribery has a great season in Cl this year and the papers can hype him up so he becomes the new fad.

Hoeness just put a 150m price tag on Ribery.

140 m isnt it ?

Super Madrid wrote:

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:That twist was already predicted way earlier. Anything can happen, but after yesterday it seems Kaka' is staying for good. I don't think Berlusconi (who is really into himself) would sell Kaka' after all that staged drama yesterday.

Every summer (since 2006) people have been saying Kaka will leave. In 2006 everyone was sure because of Calciopoli. In 2007, everyone was sure because Kaka had won everything. In 2008, he was going to because Milan didn't make the CL.

The only thing we can do is wait, summer by summer. I just don't see it happening.

Yes I agree that this time it just won't happen. Allthough I remember a similar situation with Viera where he claimed his love for Arsenal, only to leave the following season.
Had Milan been punished like it was meant to be at first with no Cl I think Kaka would have been transfered to be honest which is why that made me quite made that it didn't happen. Also last year was spent on trying to get Ronaldo. Hopefully Ribery has a great season in Cl this year and the papers can hype him up so he becomes the new fad.

Yeah last summer, Chelsea made a more aggressive bid (reportedly).

Effenberg wrote:Hoeness just put a 150m price tag on Ribery.

Great! At this rate the only winger we'll be able to afford next summer is Joaquin!

Jaime wrote:

Effenberg wrote:Hoeness just put a 150m price tag on Ribery.

Great! At this rate the only winger we'll be able to afford next summer is Joaquin!

I used to love Joaquin. Does he suck now or something?

Effenberg wrote:Hoeness just put a 150m price tag on Ribery.

Obviously that won't the price that eventually makes him leave unless City want him. What is important is simply to make Ribery aware this year and get him the next season.

Also if this trend of player valuation keeps rising we should expect a counter move by players who will want more clauses and perhaps less years on the contracts. Never made sense to me to have a 5 year contract when you have clear ambitions of going to a bigger club.

Forza
Not at all but he has suffered from being in Valencia and never being allowed to join the club he was promised to for so many years.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

Jaime wrote:

Effenberg wrote:Hoeness just put a 150m price tag on Ribery.

Great! At this rate the only winger we'll be able to afford next summer is Joaquin!

I used to love Joaquin. Does he suck now or something?

He's been quite inconsistent with Valencia, but when he's on he's as good as any winger in the world IMO.

And as Supermadrid said, mainly why he's inconsistent is because his head is still in Madrid, where he should have been a long time ago.

I used to be a big fan of Joaquin too.

Why didn't Real get him from Betis? Was Real not interested back then or Betis unwilling to sell to Real?

Well, we should have bought Joaquin to replace Figo but instead we had Sir David Goldenballs.

Red n' Black wrote:I used to be a big fan of Joaquin too.

Why didn't Real get him from Betis? Was Real not interested back then or Betis unwilling to sell to Real?

He was literally begging Madrid to buy him, giving hints like "Everyone tells me I should sign for Madrid".

But the season where we could have gotten Ronaldinho, Etoó, or Joaquin (or all 3), Perez decided to get Beckham in order to sell some more shirts.