Is selling Keane a mistake?

COTR wrote:

Vierzehn wrote:Rafa was never going to play a 442 especially when Torres & Gerrard were both available for selection, something you said last time COTR about Keane having to accept being a squad player, if so he may have stayed longer at the club.

He has played keane in a 4-4-2 in the majority of home games this season Rai. Keane has partnered torres or kuyt and been useless, he has played up front by himself in a 4-2-3-1 and been useless. There are no excuses for his form. He simply couldn't cut it for a top team.

I said Keane would have to accept being a squad player because he isn't good enough to start for us

You reckon Keane pushed for the transfer, I think Rafa was contempt to keep him as a squad player, I don’t think you can blame Keane for this seems best for both parties.

Ray Parlour wrote:

Fernando Torres wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

Fernando Torres wrote:

COTR wrote:

Vierzehn wrote:Rafa was never going to play a 442 especially when Torres & Gerrard were both available for selection, something you said last time COTR about Keane having to accept being a squad player, if so he may have stayed longer at the club.

He has played keane in a 4-4-2 in the majority of home games this season Rai. Keane has partnered torres or kuyt and been useless, he has played up front by himself in a 4-2-3-1 and been useless. There are no excuses for his form. He simply couldn't cut it for a top team.

I said Keane would have to accept being a squad player because he isn't good enough to start for us

Just interested COTR, where do you think we'll finish this season if Torres gets an injury and is out for say 2 months?

You were doing better before Torres came back

we won a few games thanks to Keane if I remeber, West Brom and Bolton..

Not that hard to be honest

Neither is Stoke, Fulham and West Ham. You need to beat every team.

Still expect more for over £20million.

Vierzehn wrote:

COTR wrote:

Vierzehn wrote:Rafa was never going to play a 442 especially when Torres & Gerrard were both available for selection, something you said last time COTR about Keane having to accept being a squad player, if so he may have stayed longer at the club.

He has played keane in a 4-4-2 in the majority of home games this season Rai. Keane has partnered torres or kuyt and been useless, he has played up front by himself in a 4-2-3-1 and been useless. There are no excuses for his form. He simply couldn't cut it for a top team.

I said Keane would have to accept being a squad player because he isn't good enough to start for us

You reckon Keane pushed for the transfer, I think Rafa was contempt to keep him as a squad player, I don’t think you can blame Keane for this seems best for both parties.

No Keane would never have wanted to leave in such a humiliating fashion so soon

Rafa kicked him out is my best bet. He realised keane was never going to cut it and couldn't be arsed with the usual press nonsense 'gerrard should be a centre midfielder and keane should play' etc etc.

As Rafa said today this is the best deal for the future of the club

Ray Parlour wrote:Still expect more for over £20million.

At the same time more should be allowed for such a fee. Keane should have been given a chance and I think it can only be justified if Keane caused unrest in the squad. I mean FFS fans were booing Zidane when he started playing for Real.

As Pierre said in Liverpool's best formation 4-2-3-1 there's no space for Keane. Rafa has to take a lot of the blame for the deal too.

I think TS has gone mad also. I said before in a thread about Keane playing for a top 4 club(this was before anyone had any idea about him going to Liverpool) that he's been a flop at Inter wasn't even a regular when Leeds were doing well, so why would it be different another time around. It's proved the case and suddenly he's great it just didn't work out...AGAIN.

The guy is simply not good enough for a team trying to win the premiership. He'll be good for Spurs, cause they need someone with his personality more than anything. But he was hardly going to go shouting the odds to Gerrard and Torres, infact he seemed a little daunted by them. He missed some sitters and never really got in a game.

Super Madrid wrote:

Ray Parlour wrote:Still expect more for over £20million.

At the same time more should be allowed for such a fee. Keane should have been given a chance and I think it can only be justified if Keane caused unrest in the squad. I mean FFS fans were booing Zidane when he started playing for Real.

@ Cotter - you can defend Benitez all you want, and say he did it for the best, but keane was playing against pretty big odds from day one, if it's true that Benitez didn't want him, then it's obvious his form and confidence will suffer. If a manager behaves with such hostility to a player that cost a fortune, then it's obvious he wasn't his choice.

When I refer to the politics at Liverpool, I meant that Keane was the big stick Benitez used to beat the board with, I suspect that if rafa wasn't allowed to get rid of Keane, there'd be no chance of him signing a new contract.

As for Kuyt, what makes him a good winger, apart from his energy?

Surely:

-----------Alonso-----Mascherano
----Gerrard-------------------------Riera
-------------Torres----Keane

Was worth a try at some point.

Keane was never going to recapture his Spurs form for you guys anyway, because the space he likes to operate in is the same as Gerrard's, and your style of play simply didn't suit him. I said as much when he signed for you, and IIRC, you called me bitter

Did I say Kuyt was a good winger ?

Whenever keane played with torres it was in a 4-4-2 with gerrard and alonso in the middle. We all waited for him to have an impact on these games but he was nowhere to be seen

Rafa believed in him at the start of the season but it quickly became apparent that keane was not worth permanently changing a winning formation for hence he has done the right thing to get rid

Seriously mate keane only has himself to blame. If he had taken even half of the chances he fluffed he would still be a liverpool player at the minute despite his poor all round performances. Unfortunately he mastered the air shot anytime the ball came near him

Babel has only himself to blame as well then.

The HuddFather wrote:

-----------Alonso-----Mascherano
----Gerrard-------------------------Riera
-------------Torres----Keane

Did Rafa ever start with this front 6 in this formation?

IMO its Liverpools best.

L-r d wrote:I think TS has gone mad also. I said before in a thread about Keane playing for a top 4 club(this was before anyone had any idea about him going to Liverpool) that he's been a flop at Inter wasn't even a regular when Leeds were doing well, so why would it be different another time around. It's proved the case and suddenly he's great it just didn't work out...AGAIN.

The guy is simply not good enough for a team trying to win the premiership. He'll be good for Spurs, cause they need someone with his personality more than anything. But he was hardly going to go shouting the odds to Gerrard and Torres, infact he seemed a little daunted by them. He missed some sitters and never really got in a game.

He isn't World Class, but I do think he can be a useful member of a top 4 squad.

He was unlucky at Inter tbh, the coach who bought him was sacked quite early on, and what incoming coach is seriously going to trust a Irish youngster when a club as big as Inter is in crisis.

As for Leeds, Viduka and Kewell were superb in that time, add in Alan smith when he was somewhat decent, and why upset the applecart?

And you don't account for his 2005-06 season, where he displayed genuine WC form, and nearly made the CL on the back of that?

The HuddFather wrote:
And you don't account for his 2005-06 season, where he displayed genuine WC form, and nearly made the CL on the back of that?

With a little help from Davids & Carrick

Vierzehn wrote:

The HuddFather wrote:
And you don't account for his 2005-06 season, where he displayed genuine WC form, and nearly made the CL on the back of that?

With a little help from Davids & Carrick

Carrick and Davids were great, King and Lennon also. But Keane's form is what put us over the top

The HuddFather wrote:

Vierzehn wrote:

The HuddFather wrote:
And you don't account for his 2005-06 season, where he displayed genuine WC form, and nearly made the CL on the back of that?

With a little help from Davids & Carrick

Carrick and Davids were great, King and Lennon also. But Keane's form is what put us over the top

Also this was the season when Mido had the ‘midas touch’.

Vierzehn wrote:

The HuddFather wrote:

Vierzehn wrote:

The HuddFather wrote:
And you don't account for his 2005-06 season, where he displayed genuine WC form, and nearly made the CL on the back of that?

With a little help from Davids & Carrick

Carrick and Davids were great, King and Lennon also. But Keane's form is what put us over the top

Also this was the season when Mido had the ‘midas touch’.

When he was fit. Which was half the time.

That was probably his most productive season in the Premier League, he was on loan for you guys right?

This game probably summed up what you were saying about Keane:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/4750318.stm

The skin-tight kit

One obvious problem was the fact that I don't think Gerrard and Keane could actually funtion in the same team. If Keane is on the wing he won't show his best and the same is true of Gerrard. In 4-4-2 Keane would be better suited but Gerrard can't play central midfield and Gerrard effectively plays the same position between the striker and midfield. Only way I could see it work is Benitez played a 4-3-1-2 and even then im not sure.

Two things

One, Keane was a pawn in the power struggle between Benitez and Parry and whether he played well or not or fitted into the Liverpool team was I think largely irrelevant. I think Benitez had decided exactly what do do from the onset, when he was denied Barry (despite the fact that Keane cost more than Villa's asking price for Barry. That must have been galling for Benitez). Keane didn't stand a chance.

Which leads to my second point about the seemingly spineless display by Keane - he's not the first player who's struggled to adapt to a new club, (and a higher ranking one too) in his first season - even Shevchenko stuck at it at Chelsea for a couple of seasons before he gave up. Yet Keane goes, tail between legs, back to his old club after only six months. However much Spurs welcomes him back, that's humiliating for a player. I have no particular liking for Keane but he is a seasoned pro and players like him won't give up on a top four team, especially the one he'd always followed, even if he wasn't playing regularly - if he knew it was only a question of earning his place in the team on merit. Keane must have realised the predicament he was in quite early on, that, whatever he did on the pitch hardly mattered because Benitez did not want him, end of.

Finally, it's also interesting to note that other Liverpool players, that is, those who have influence within the team - Gerrard, Carragher, Alonso (so I hear) - have been hardly vocal in Keane's support. They knew he was doomed from the start. An interesting study of power politics at play in a team.

Should have just stuck Gerrard on the right, he has played their before and done a good job.

Batman wrote:Should have just stuck Gerrard on the right, he has played their before and done a good job.

But he starts on the right coming in to the area between 2 CM's and a CF which is where Keane does his best work

Shevchenko was shockingly shit for Chelsea but still bled on the shirt away to Levski and made a great clearance v Man U showing he had the commitment if not the physical ability or sharpness.

Keane was a sulking twat.

TheCrazy58 wrote:Two things

One, Keane was a pawn in the power struggle between Benitez and Parry and whether he played well or not or fitted into the Liverpool team was I think largely irrelevant. I think Benitez had decided exactly what do do from the onset, when he was denied Barry (despite the fact that Keane cost more than Villa's asking price for Barry. That must have been galling for Benitez). Keane didn't stand a chance.

Which leads to my second point about the seemingly spineless display by Keane - he's not the first player who's struggled to adapt to a new club, (and a higher ranking one too) in his first season - even Shevchenko stuck at it at Chelsea for a couple of seasons before he gave up. Yet Keane goes, tail between legs, back to his old club after only six months. However much Spurs welcomes him back, that's humiliating for a player. I have no particular liking for Keane but he is a seasoned pro and players like him won't give up on a top four team, especially the one he'd always followed, even if he wasn't playing regularly - if he knew it was only a question of earning his place in the team on merit. Keane must have realised the predicament he was in quite early on, that, whatever he did on the pitch hardly mattered because Benitez did not want him, end of.

Finally, it's also interesting to note that other Liverpool players, that is, those who have influence within the team - Gerrard, Carragher, Alonso (so I hear) - have been hardly vocal in Keane's support. They knew he was doomed from the start. An interesting study of power politics at play in a team.

Excellent post

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

Batman wrote:Should have just stuck Gerrard on the right, he has played their before and done a good job.

But he starts on the right coming in to the area between 2 CM's and a CF which is where Keane does his best work

Shevchenko was shockingly shit for Chelsea but still bled on the shirt away to Levski and made a great clearance v Man U showing he had the commitment if not the physical ability or sharpness.

Keane was a sulking twat.

not sure Liverpool would've got 4 pts away to arsenal & Chelsea, if all Keane did was walk around sulking up front

So Lawrenson was right?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article5354956.ece

Batman wrote:Should have just stuck Gerrard on the right, he has played their before and done a good job.

Well didn't he and the media bitch about that? Fact is that Gerrard is Liverpools most important player and he can help the team more in the middle then on the right. Just like Raul with us Gerrard forces a particular system on Benitez which is 4-2-3-1.

i think most of the former liverpool players in the media think Gerrard should be played in CM, because he is the best.

But he can't play well in a 2 man midfield

The HuddFather wrote:

TheCrazy58 wrote:Two things

One, Keane was a pawn in the power struggle between Benitez and Parry and whether he played well or not or fitted into the Liverpool team was I think largely irrelevant. I think Benitez had decided exactly what do do from the onset, when he was denied Barry (despite the fact that Keane cost more than Villa's asking price for Barry. That must have been galling for Benitez). Keane didn't stand a chance.

Which leads to my second point about the seemingly spineless display by Keane - he's not the first player who's struggled to adapt to a new club, (and a higher ranking one too) in his first season - even Shevchenko stuck at it at Chelsea for a couple of seasons before he gave up. Yet Keane goes, tail between legs, back to his old club after only six months. However much Spurs welcomes him back, that's humiliating for a player. I have no particular liking for Keane but he is a seasoned pro and players like him won't give up on a top four team, especially the one he'd always followed, even if he wasn't playing regularly - if he knew it was only a question of earning his place in the team on merit. Keane must have realised the predicament he was in quite early on, that, whatever he did on the pitch hardly mattered because Benitez did not want him, end of.

Finally, it's also interesting to note that other Liverpool players, that is, those who have influence within the team - Gerrard, Carragher, Alonso (so I hear) - have been hardly vocal in Keane's support. They knew he was doomed from the start. An interesting study of power politics at play in a team.

Excellent post

Beat me to it TS. Best post in this thread about the whole fiasco

Keane was exactly that, a pawn in a power struggle. He had no chance from the moment he put pen to paper.

As for the influence from within the dressing room. Well, anyone remember this from Dec last year...

Lawrenson: Gerrard thinks Keane will go

Steven Gerrard believes Robbie Keane will leave Liverpool in next month's transfer window, according to former Reds star Mark Lawrenson.

Lawrenson, who won five league titles during his time at Anfield, made the claim during a radio interview in Ireland - although Liverpool insist Gerrard does not recall the conversation in the same way.

"I had a drink with Steven Gerrard at a function on Saturday night, and we were talking about Robbie Keane," Lawrenson said. "He was saying to me that they [Keane and Gerrard] share the same agent and he thinks something is going to happen with Robbie Keane in January. He thinks he's going to be moved on."

Striker Keane has scored just twice in the Barclays Premier League since his £20million summer move from Tottenham.

A day later Lawrenson issued an apology to Liverpool, Keane and Gerrard saying basically it was all bull what was printed. Guess Gerrard and Lawrenson were right eh...

Keane was only a couple of goals behind Torres as well

Wonder who will end up with the most at the end of the season.