VfB Stuttgart - Mir sin' die wo gwinne wellet

anglophileHedgehog wrote:Schon bei einer weiteren Pleite morgen könnte das vor kurzem noch Undenkbare passieren: Dann könnte es für Armin Veh eng werden.

Die Notbremse namens Trainerwechsel wird ernsthaft diskutiert.

Are they mad? They can't just sack the coach every time there's a problem...

chrissicross wrote:

anglophileHedgehog wrote:Schon bei einer weiteren Pleite morgen könnte das vor kurzem noch Undenkbare passieren: Dann könnte es für Armin Veh eng werden.

Die Notbremse namens Trainerwechsel wird ernsthaft diskutiert.

Are they mad? They can't just sack the coach every time there's a problem...

My thoughts exactly. Especially since I wouldn't want to wish the current situation on anyone (read: any new coach). We have so many injured players and add to that the ones who are out of form... Nah. Sacking Veh could be a possible solution if we had Bayern's standards, and even then, they'd probably wait until the winter break.

It would be like treating the symptoms instead of eradicating the root of the problem. Whatever that is in our case.

Stuttgarts main problem was signing poor players this season to "beef up" the team. Basturk had been rubbish for Hertha since I can remember, Marica is just plain poor (the less said about Ewerthon the better) and they should of really tried to go for someome like Enke for their GK.

I do not not who is in charge of their signings but even before the season you could just sence they screwed things up and spent a lot of money doing so.

Cricky wrote:Stuttgarts main problem was signing poor players this season to "beef up" the team. Basturk had been rubbish for Hertha since I can remember, Marica is just plain poor (the less said about Ewerthon the better) and they should of really tried to go for someome like Enke for their GK.

I do not not who is in charge of their signings but even before the season you could just sence they screwed things up and spent a lot of money doing so.

Yes and no.

I wouldn't go as far as condemning all of our signings--Raphael Schäfer is a decent goalie, who, behind a good back four [which we don't have at the moment, seeing that the players in question are either injured (we have no fit leftback) or out of form (Meira, Osorio...) or benched for God knows what reason (Beck)] would produce less... Lehmann-esque blunders. I seriously doubt that Hild€brand would have been much better or whether he'd have saved us any games.

You are right on the count, though, that we haven't managed to sign a good striker this summer--I expect Heldt and Co to rectify that during the January transfer window and I fully agree with you on Bas(h)türk, I don't think he really fits into the team, mentality and character-wise.

You have many injuries, but what is even more important imo, you have many young players and an relatively unexperienced team. Last season you started from 0 to 100 with winning the Championship, which was perhaps a bit too fast. Now the expectations are huge, too huge. Now all this comes together, and the CL makes it even more difficult.

Veh has nothing to do with all these problems. Last year he showed that he's the right coach for Stuttgart, now they should give him the time it needs.

chrissicross wrote:You have many injuries, but what is even more important imo, you have many young players and an relatively unexperienced team. Last season you started from 0 to 100 with winning the Championship, which was perhaps a bit too fast. Now the expectations are huge, too huge. Now all this comes together, and the CL makes it even more difficult.

Veh has nothing to do with all these problems. Last year he showed that he's the right coach for Stuttgart, now they should give him the time it needs.

And the players are tired and worn out--just look at how Gomez has fallen back into old habits (the fans have reverted to calling him 'Stolperhannes', and rightly so) or take Hitzlsperger's infected toe/bone/rumoured stress fracture. Right now, I'd just like them to be able to take some time off, to recharge their batteries. This reminds me so much of the season under Sammer when Lahm, Kuranyi, Hinkel and Co were looking tired and frazzled around the edges.

Expectations are another thing, I think I've mentioned the 'Second Season Syndrome' quite a lot over the past few weeks... Let's just hope they have the booze-up Gomez suggested in Wednesday's SportBlöd--if it helps them to rebuild some structures within the squad. And that they will accept the help of a sports psychologist.

As you say Schäfer is a decent GK, but come on if you want to play in the Champions League you have to have more than a decent GK. I am not saying Hildebrand would of done better but that is because I dont rate him at all.

I really think this was Stuttgarts chance to take a step forward like Bremen has done and become a consistant team. If they sack Veh they will have definatly taken a few steps backwards.

You should definatly sell Bastürk while he still has his reputation from his Leverkusen days because he will just get worse.

I agree though that maybe they are just playing to much (or more than they are used too) and will be much better after the winter pause.

Stuttgart verkauft seinen Kapitän

Null Punkte nach drei Champions-League-Spielen, Platz elf in der Liga - der Meister ist abgestürzt. Vor dem Spiel in Lyon (ab 20.45 Uhr im Live-Ticker) drohen die VfB-Bosse den Spielern mit Rauswurf. SPORT BILD erfuhr: Kapitän Fernando Meira (29) dürfte schon im Winter seine Koffer packen.

Im Meisterjahr war der Verteidiger noch eine große Stütze des VfB. Doch nach zwei roten Karten und schwachen Leistungen war er in dieser Saison bisher eher ein Symbol des Untergangs. Weil er in Gedanken mehr bei den europäischen Top-Klubs als mit Stuttgart im Abstiegskampf war, ziehen die Klub-Bosse nun die Konsequenzen. Meira und alle anderen unzufriedenen Spieler dürfen gehen.

Die möglichen aussortierten Spieler sollen die Kasse der Schwaben ordentlich füllen. Schließlich gehen durch das fast sicher Aus in der Champions League, Stuttgart ist in der Gruppe E hinter Barcelona, Glasgow und Lyon Letzter, viele Millionen flöten. Allein Meira soll mindestens 20 Millionen Euro bringen.

Diese Summe hat im Sommer bereits Juventus Turin für den portugiesischen Nationalspieler geboten. Damals lehnten Manager Horst Heldt und die anderen VfB-Verantwortlichen noch ab. Jetzt hat sich die Lage geändert.

"Wenn Mitarbeiter nicht mit Freude und Engagement in einem Unternehmen tätig sind, muss geklärt werden, ob und wie die Zusammenarbeit weiter Sinn macht", sagt Aufsichtsrat-Boss Dieter Hundt. SPORT BILD erfuhr: Spätestens im Sommer 2008 darf Meira gehen.

Ein Nachfolger ist bereits gefunden. Frankfurts Abwehrchef Sotirios Kyrgiakos steht auf der Wunschliste ganz oben. Knapp zehn Millionen Euro würden die Stuttgarter den Hessen für die Dienste des griechischen Nationalspielers zahlen, wenn einer bereit ist, Meira für 20 Millionen Euro oder mehr zu kaufen.

Das ist nach den bisher gezeigten Leistungen in dieser Saison indes äußerst fraglich.

http://sportbild.de/sportbild/generated/article/fussball/2007/11/07/7550500000.html

@Wiebke



Do you think that's wise?

So if Gomez decides he is unhappy in Stuttgart, he could leave as well then? To Werder Bremen perhaps?

Better 18m for Gomez than 12m for Poldi...

I hope Fergie does his scouting in Bundesliga as Gomez will fit Man Utd.

What does the article say? Is it just that Meira is welcome to move if he is unhappy at Stuttgart? With hindsight they might have been better off selling him in the summer when Juve were apparently offering large sums for him. He hasn't played well this season from what I've seen.

Sheffield gunner wrote:What does the article say? Is it just that Meira is welcome to move if he is unhappy at Stuttgart? With hindsight they might have been better off selling him in the summer when Juve were apparently offering large sums for him. He hasn't played well this season from what I've seen.

Basically the article says that everyone who feels unhappy at Stuttgart can leave.

I think Gomez is happy at Stuttgart though. I just mentioned him, because I would like to have him in Bremen.

Look at the vultures already circling...


I'd say it's another case of wait and see, really. How many times have us Stuttgarters moaned about Meira and how many times did we have to grovel and apologise to him afterwards? He is not playing at his best at the moment, sure, however, I do have faith in him to turn the corner at some point. And that includes getting back on track mentally as well.

I wouldn't want to see him leave in January--however, if he desperately wants to (and, after all, he's been with us for more than seven years now!), I don't think they should keep him. Nothing worse than an unhappy player.

And mitts off Gomez!!! If necessary, I shall chain him to my wrist--despite the dodgy image this paints.

anglophileHedgehog wrote:
And mitts off Gomez!!! If necessary, I shall chain him to my wrist--despite the dodgy image this paints.

It was just a question out if interest, Wiebke.

But if you would sell him to us, you might buy Poldi from Bayern. Then you still have 6m left. Think about it...

chrissicross wrote:

anglophileHedgehog wrote:
And mitts off Gomez!!! If necessary, I shall chain him to my wrist--despite the dodgy image this paints.

It was just a question out if interest, Wiebke.

But if you would sell him to us, you might buy Poldi from Bayern. Then you still have 6m left. Think about it...

Mausi, I know you and your seemingly innocent ways.


Suuuuuuuuuuuuuure... Why don't you lot sign Poldi during the winter break?

anglophileHedgehog wrote:

chrissicross wrote:

anglophileHedgehog wrote:
And mitts off Gomez!!! If necessary, I shall chain him to my wrist--despite the dodgy image this paints.

It was just a question out if interest, Wiebke.

But if you would sell him to us, you might buy Poldi from Bayern. Then you still have 6m left. Think about it...

Mausi, I know you and your seemingly innocent ways.


Suuuuuuuuuuuuuure... Why don't you lot sign Poldi during the winter break?

I'm sure our little Poldi feels more comfortable and welcome in Stuttgart under daddy Veh and Uncle Heldt...

Anyway, good luck against Lyon now.

Ooooh, thread-necrophilia!


A sort of preliminary dissection of our season:


I'm actually not bothered about us possibly losing out on the Europa League next Saturday - I don't think that the way the team played in the first half of the season merits an entry to an international competition. Also, seeing that we're facing what will become the Big Exodus of 2010 (tm), it might actually not be the worst thing to be able to regroup and re-form a team without the added pressure of extra mid-week fixtures as well as everyone else's expectations.

Which kind of leads over to why I either feel detached from whatever my club is up to or completely pissed at them: I'm absolutely not happy with how the season went and not even the rather spectacular run-in and string of victories they pulled towards the end is going to change that.

It's always easy to say once a coach has been sacked, but I was against Babbel getting a permanent job from the beginning. The club have a pattern of collapsing spectacularly after a good achievement the season before (c.f. the 07/08 season after we won the Championship) and that's not a situation where you'd want to have someone who a) is inexperienced and b) has to split his time between training the team and studying for his coaching license.
On top of that came Babbel's rather strange and sometimes downright offending (for the players involved) personnel and tactical decisions. I'm still boggling at the fact that he, who was Trapattoni's most vocal critic, implemented a rotation system that didn't just not work but also served to completely demoralise some players. How someone from higher up didn't step in then is beyond me.

This leads over to another issue I'm blaming Babbel for, namely how (appallingly) Thomas Hitzlsperger was treated by both Babbel and Heldt. Seriously, where was the respect for the captain? You knew what you were getting when you gave him the armband, and, quite frankly, anyone, even Zvoni Soldo, would have looked bad in that situation when our midfield simply wasn't working.

Speaking of the players - instead of flogging Hitz, they should rather have taken Serdar Tasci's delusions of grandeur away from him and cut him down two notches or three. You are not ready to be captain yet, Serdar, so shut the fuck up and get some more games under your belt.
Other personalities I'm glad to say goodbye to are Jens Lehmann and Roberto Hilbert (although with Roberto, I say this with a tinge of sadness rather than pure relief). I know I'll probably get some stick for writing this from the Lehmann-support-section on the f-list, but: It's always easy to snicker and laugh at his antics if he's not playing for YOUR club. For us, it was just humiliating and distracting (especially for the rest of the team) after the first incident. His time is over and he should accept that. That said, I'm indefinitely grateful for his service and wish him all the best for his retirement. As for Roberto... Well, it just didn't work out, did it? Also, we have a very similar player in Gebhart and really, one of them is more than enough.
Also, and to reiterate my disgust at how some players were treated: A fond farewell to Ricardo Osorio. Thank you for putting up with all the crap without complaining in public - you deserve an award for that and a new club who really value you for what you're worth and don't play inexperienced youngsters (who are clearly out of their depth) in your stead. Thank you for being you and for your contributions to the club and for making me smile.

In a nutshell: 2009/2010 - the season of two halves and the season in which I lost the last bit of faith in Horst Heldt.

DS wrote:I hope Fergie does his scouting in Bundesliga as Gomez will fit Man Utd.

As another Berbatov ?

VfB's problem is Heldt

and maybe even the board/superbisory board

similarities to Hoffmann/Beiersdorfer at HSV

or Müller at Schalke

are striking

---------

you are too harsh on Lehmann who deserves nothing but praise

which is exactly what he got from the VAST majority of his team-mates who were raving about him even during all those mini-crises

even if there were one or two players who disliked that Jens had certain privilegies

-------

Tasci is indeed a joke

but so is Heldt for offering him the vice-captaincy in his contract negotiations (verbally or in writing)



by the way, I recently watched an interview with Gebhardt

VERY good guy

he looks rather Asian

weird for somebody coming from the Allgäu

Don't see much of a problem with Heldt tbf
He seems to have improved the club a lot lately and doesn't waste the money. His Signings before the season were all reasonable as well. With Gross in buiseness from the beginning it could have been another CL appearance (bit specualtive, but we will see next season)

you are too harsh on Lehmann who deserves nothing but praise

which is exactly what he got from the VAST majority of his team-mates who were raving about him even during all those mini-crises

even if there were one or two players who disliked that Jens had certain privilegies

He deserves praise for getting into ball kids? He deserves praise for creating unrest in the team? He deserves praise for the whole helicopter thing? I think not, Otto.

Antarion wrote:Don't see much of a problem with Heldt tbf
He seems to have improved the club a lot lately and doesn't waste the money. His Signings before the season were all reasonable as well. With Gross in buiseness from the beginning it could have been another CL appearance (bit specualtive, but we will see next season)

Yeah, but Heldt gave Tasci delusions of grandeur when the player is nowhere ready to become captain (I would have loved to be able to hit Serdar over the head for a recent interview in which he called himself a "gestandener Spieler") and Heldt now has a bit of a history of less-than-stellar people management skills. See Hitz, see Hinkel before he left, see Osorio...

Heldt fucked up by allowing Babbel to manage VfB whilst doing the DFB coaching course

UTTERLY RIDICULOUS

he clearly cannot seperate private and professional life

Heldt and Babbel are almost BEST friends

their wives are VERY good friends

they even live in the same BUILDING

appointing Babbel as a saviour after the Veh fiasco was good

allowing him to stay on, because Babbel believed he could manage it was MADNESS

as for Hitz

he should NEVER have been made captain in the first place

he is nice and intelligent , but NO LEADER

just like Tasci, Westerwelle, Rolfes...

when anarchy broke out in the VfB dressing room Hitz, the CAPTAIN, decided it might be a good idea to meet as a team in a restaurent to discuss what was going wrong

the team gave him the cold shoulder though and no meeting took place

Hitz had ZERO authority as a captain

the way Babbel took the captaincy away may feel unfair

but there was NO WAY AROUND IT

he should never have been given it in the first place

the way Babbel took the captaincy away may feel unfair

but there was NO WAY AROUND IT

he should never have been given it in the first place

I dare to disagree - Hitz could have done a good job as captain... If the circumstances had been different (e.g. less unrest in the team and less people with a crisis in form). Anyone who was captain for that Sauhaufen (in the first half of the season) would have looked bad and despaired after a while.

And the way the captaincy was taken away from him was beyond appalling, that's a fact.

all I am saying is that there is NO GOOD way to take the captaincy away DURING the season

if Hitz is not seen and treated like a leader by the team

then he CANNOT be captain

I believe antari and I discussed this in the Feminization of Football thread

you CANNOT appoint leaders , if nobody takes them seriously

that's what female Kindergarten teachers do when they say to little Max "heute bist du der Boss, und morgen is Fritz dran, anschliessend Annegret"

it DOES NOT WORK

Magath is currently experiencing the same with Westerwelle

who , he says, seems somewhat overburdened by the captaincy ; is thinking about it too much

when Hitz cannot even get the "Sauhaufen" to have a good CHAT to clear the air

he is FINISHED as a leader

can you imagine Bommel, or Effe in the past, calling for a team-meeting and NOBODY turning up

no disrespect anglo, but maybe as a girl you do not understand this

maybe, it's a boys thing

at some point Hitz' form went downhill as well, which is when Babbel took away the armband

from Hitz' POV this is the last thing he needed: agreed

but it's easy to imagine a locker-room situation where Hitz was already sitting on the bench, but still trying to "lead" the team, and in the heat of the moment somebody shouted at him

"why don't you start performing YOURSELF , before you tell US what to do?!"

VERY quickly a player's authority is in tatters after that

which is maybe, why Babbel wanted to protect him by relieving Hitz of his duties

obviously, Hitz would have finished completely afterwards

--------------

anyway, more nonsense from Heldt

Khedira will STAY one more year

until the end of his contract



either the boy stays and extends his contract , or he leaves and VfB earn 10 + million

LOST money says I

VfB have Träsch, Kuzmanovic, Gentner, Gebhardt... in central midfield

Heldt = Geldvernichtungsmaschine

Ä wrote:Magath is currently experiencing the same with Westerwelle

Ä wrote:
you CANNOT appoint leaders , if nobody takes them seriously

that's what female Kindergarten teachers do when they say to little Max "heute bist du der Boss, und morgen is Fritz dran, anschliessend Annegret"

it DOES NOT WORK

But, in all seriousness, who should have become captain instead?

Hleb, who had just arrived from Barca and who went through a huge crisis in form?
Lehmann, who didn't exactly act like a leader should even without the armband?
Tasci, whose ego was already inflated enough?
Delpierre, who is both too quiet and has been playing as if he's in slow-motion all season long?

There weren't many options there and out of them all, Hitz was the best.

no disrespect anglo, but maybe as a girl you do not understand this

maybe, it's a boys thing

Maybe it's a logic thing?

Anyway: Something heartwarming:

Osorio: „Ich habe bei der Verabschiedung nach dem letzten Heimspiel gegen Mainz schon geweint. In Hoffenheim wird es vielleicht noch schlimmer.“ Der Nationalspieler möchte seine Karriere am liebsten in Europa fortsetzen – aber auf keinen Fall in Deutschland.

Love you, too, Ricardo and thank you for everything!

The current squad...

Goalkeepers:
Ulreich - Stolz - Ziegler

Defenders:
Degen - Molinaro - Tasci [Might be off somewhere as well, seeing how he is being treated at the moment; rumours have been there all summer long] - Niedermeyer [sorry, Schorschi, but you are not good enough] - Boka - Delpierre [Our perennially injured captain...] - Boulahrouz - Celozzi

Midfielders:
Kuzmanovic - Audel - Gebhart - Funk - Gentner - Elson[He's not going to play anytime soon, even if he stays] - Didavi [New kid, untested and untried...] - Träsch

Strikers:
Harnik - Marica - Pogrebnyak - Cacau


Right... How about we start spending some money now?

Did you already spend the 14m for Khedira then? I thought this money was planned to be reinvested immediately...

... in reconstructing the stadium, yes.

http://vfb.mine.nu/viewtopic.php?t=3228
Someone on another message board tried to make sense of it all and failed... (Bitte die Seitenhiebe auf euch überlesen. )

anglophileHedgehog wrote:... in reconstructing the stadium, yes.

http://vfb.mine.nu/viewtopic.php?t=3228
Someone on another message board tried to make sense of it all and failed... (Bitte die Seitenhiebe auf euch überlesen. )

We have the same "Where has all the money gone?" discussions here. And of course officially no transfer money has ever been used for reconstructing the Weser Stadium.

Naja, wer's glaubt. At least you actually increase the capacity of your stadium. We just spend the money for toilets, business lodges and a solar power system...