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    FC Barcelona - Campeones de España!

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    Post by fcb Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:36 pm

    It's not so straightforward though. With just 19 "senior" players, you're barely covering the minimum requirement of an 18 man squad for each match day.

    Even if we avoid a bad injury situation during the coming season (which would be incredibly lucky considering half our squad had such a long season with the World Cup), it's normal for 3-4 players to be out at any given time due to injuries and suspensions.

    So if we're not making new signings, Pep has to decide whether his chosen youth players will be full members of the first team and train on a daily basis, or whether he'll just call them up as and when required.

    IMO the latter option is only good for emergencies and not something you can do throughout a season...because for a backup to be reliable, he needs to be (among many other things) on the same wavelength as his prospective teammates, playing regularly with them, getting to know their style of play, building combinations on the pitch.

    You can't have a guy train with the B team for 4 days, senior team for 2 days, play with the senior team one week, then back to the B team the next week, etc. all season long. This will just ruin both teams' chances, and the player's own momentum/confidence too.



    And another argument against such a small squad - especially this one which is a bit unbalanced, esp. in midfield - is the potential lack of competitiveness amongst the players.

    As I said above, with just 19 senior players, it's too easy for Pep to pick his matchday squad. It's an automatic pick every week...just drop Jeffren. No player would worry for his spot, at worst they'd be on the bench.

    I have faith in Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol...but I really don't want to see the likes of Pique and Busquets with zero competition for their places. They are the types that get complacent and lazy easily, and lose their focus.
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    Post by Guest Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:54 pm

    I agree fully with the part about how to integrate the players, the approach you mention is the best and with Enrique integrating the like of Rafa(JDS) and Espinosa(thiago) into the barca atletic preseason and keeping in mind that fact that they basically won promotion without

    Fontas
    JDS
    Thiago

    Due to injures and call ups, i think he is planning for life without them.

    I hope so at least, but i have a feeling that they will training with the first team, like they were doing last season and play with barca atletic, I hope i am wrong.

    Marti
    Roberto
    V.Vasquez
    Rafa
    Edu Oriol
    Espinosa

    I think that enough for luis enrique to work with.
    TITO
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    Post by TITO Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:28 am

    As soon as i click on the official store of www.fcbarcelona.com this thing appears:

    Reported Attack Site!

    This web site at www.fcbarcelona.cat has been reported as an attack site and has been blocked based on your security preferences.

    Attack sites try to install programs that steal private information, use your computer to attack others, or damage your system.

    Some attack sites intentionally distribute harmful software, but many are compromised without the knowledge or permission of their owners.


    Is it harmful?














    fcb
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    Post by fcb Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:35 am

    No idea. I got the same message...didn't have the guts to proceed further.
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    Hem fet un..


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    Post by Hem fet un.. Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:24 pm

    It is all part of Rosell's masterplan to improve the clubs economy.

    No signings... and if the socios really want a signing anyway, the trojan horses on the website will allow Rosell to extract the money directly from you ;-)
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    Post by Guest Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:28 pm

    i got the same message, processed to the site and most of the links aren't working, but only got the message using google chrome.
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    Post by Guest Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:16 pm

    Depor wants planas as well

    According to Catalan sports paper El Mundo Deprtivo, La Liga club Deportivo la Coruna coach Miguel Angel Lotina has confirmed rumours that the Riazor club are interested in signing one of the two Barcelona B defenders Carles Planas (19) and Marc Muniesa (18), who are also part of the Spain U-19 and U-18 teams respectively. Lotina wants them to replace the void left by the departure of Brazilian full back Filipe Luis (24) to Atletico Madrid.

    Speaking at a press conference today, Lotina confirmed, “Barcelona have two left sided defenders who are very young but very prepared for the first division. The problem is they have a reserve squad that is in the second division, so they don’t necessarily need to transfer. We spoke with them, and expect an answer but we must be prepared for alternatives in case they reject our offer. We are still waiting for their answer and if they want to stay it is quite logical”.

    Muniesa is an international with the lower echelons of Spain and debuted with the first team of Barcelona in May 2009, while Planas was a European U-17 champion with Spain in 2008, he was also a runner-up in the European U-19 championships last month making the left fullback slot his own during both competitions. He was crucial in the Juvenil A’s victorious league campaign last season, and has also played in the reserves where he produced some crucial performances during the clubs play-off’s for promotion.


    Carles Planas in action for Spain during the Uefa U-19 European Championship
    “Planas and Muniesa are two players who could really help Deportivo this season, but first they have to say yes to the transfer and then we can speak about the conditions. It is not very clear,” added the Deportivo boss during his appearance before the media.

    Lotina explained that the “technicians and coordinators” of Barcelona “are the ones to decide what is best for the players” and claimed that Deportivo president, Augusto César Lendoiro has initiated negotiations to try and close a transfer to replace Filipe Luis as soon as possible.

    “We will not wait until next Friday or Saturday to start negotiations because then there will only be a week left for the market to close and negotiations could turn complicated, so the president will pull the strings this week” he said.

    However, Lotina added that if negotiations with Barcelona fail, there are “several other options” and pointed that “there are national level players” who they could sign.



    Read more: http://www.totalbarca.com/2010/youth/lotina-planas-and-muniesa-are-two-players-that-could-help-deportivo/#ixzz0wsYz4S00
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    Post by Hem fet un.. Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:56 pm

    Caceres and Victor Sanchez in the first club photo... Hopefully there is a chance that Caceres will stay. (Hleb was not allowed to appear Smile)
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    Post by fcb Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:02 pm

    Hem fet un.. wrote:Caceres and Victor Sanchez in the first club photo... Hopefully there is a chance that Caceres will stay. (Hleb was not allowed to appear Smile)

    I was looking through the squad stats on Wiki, and it's interesting to note that we currently have 4 non-EU players: Adriano, Maxwell, Hleb, and Caceres. So it's obvious there's only room for one of Hleb and Caceres, at most. And it definitely looks like the latter is more likely to stay considering his lower wages and room for improvement. No idea who, if anyone, will take Hleb though.
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    Post by Guest Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:05 pm

    fucking hell pep hates helb Very Happy , are maybe that means he is one his way out, sevilla are reported to be in for him

    Victor sanchez is a waste of space, we should send him down to barca atletic

    caceres i always like, but with Milito and Puyol their, we will have too many CB that plays a similar style, which is way pep will play fontas more.

    he played well at the WC, i thought someone would have been in for him.
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    Post by Guest Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:35 pm



    Pep's two plans

    Catalán sports daily Sport published an article in which they describe ‘Pep’s two plans.’ How close to the truth is the article? One should always reserve some judgement when reading anything that is not a direct quote from a press conference available for all to hear. Keeping that in mind, what follows is a translation of the article. The original can be found here.

    For Pep Guardiola, the summer market is already closed and only a true unexpected bargain could make him change his mind. His only request was Cesc Fàbregas, and if the player from Maresme was not possible, he would turn to the cantera. It was a thought-out decision made after analyzing his forces with those that count and the options that he has in the youth system. The coach from Santpedor is convinced he needs to count on a guaranteed squad with which he can again fight for it all, like in his past two seasons.

    It is indisputable that the team is short on reinforcements, but no one doubts that this squad is stronger that that of last season. So much so that the base of the next project will be formed by up to eight players that just won the World Cup in South Africa with the Spanish National Team. They are the ones, according to Guardiola, that should carry the weight of the team at important moments in the season. Valdés, Puyol, Piqué, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Pedro and Villa are the base with which he builds a new winning side. In his third year as first-team trainer, Pep has created a squad with sufficient guarantees with which he hopes to maintain the imposed domination. All of his men are accustomed to enjoying the titles, and it is they who should carry the weight in the new objectives.

    For the coach, Pedro has won, after the past season, the right to be a starting player, so he should occupy one of the three forward positions. Another will be the star signing of the summer, David Villa. Guardiola considers that his arrival has substantially made better the performance of a team that already offered many guarantees of success. The player from Asturias does not need a period of adaptation. Neither personal or as a player. He knows to perfection the majority of his teammates, with whom he has shared the national team locker room on many occasions. In addition, he speaks the same “football” language, so he should have no problem fitting in [to the Barça system]. The technical staff understands that his place should be on the wing, from where he achieved the shared title of maximum goal scorer, with five goals, in South Africa.

    [The technical staff favour the left wing for Villa] because the intention is to situate, by definitive form, Leo Messi in the middle as a false forward with freedom of movement. Guardiola believes that his characteristics make him more dangerous in this position than if he is stuck out on the wing. The Argentinean is one of three players of the Plan A with whom the coach is working that did not form part of Vicente del Bosque’s combination. The other two are Dani Alves and the Frenchman Eric Abidal.

    This starting eleven as point of departure converts Barça into a more potent team than before. In this sense, the role of Andrés Iniesta should again be a key component. The player from la Mancha did not have the prominence that his football skills deserve the past season due to various problems. With an in-form Iniesta, the blaugrana team wins many lotteries.

    But Pep Guardiola also has many hopes deposited in the options that give him his Plan B. From there, one can only contemplate new incorporations if these arrive at a basement price, something very improbable. The diversity of Adriano, which is similar to the versatility that Maxwell already offers, allows the coach many variations, who also counts on a player like Keita. The two Brazilians can give alternatives in the midfield, the area in which the team is the shortest on alternatives. The three will have many minutes over the course of the season.

    The role of the players that make up this second option will be important; although, they could earn indisputable starting positions over the course of the year. Bojan and Jeffrén, above, or Milito, in defense, should also colaborate in an active form to help the results arrive. Like Ibrahimovic, despite the fact he lost his starting position. Guardiola also is counting on four youth players (Dos Santos, Romeu, Fontàs and Thiago) for three positions (central defense, pivot, and inside). With the four, the squad goes from 19 to 23 players, despite that, in the moment of truth, there will be some 14 or 15, plus those that earn it, that will be the ones that take on the responsibility of once again making Barça champions.

    As a final editorial observation and question for all, take note of part of what Sport both says and implies:

    The player from Asturias does not need a period of adaptation. Neither personal or as a player. He knows to perfection the majority of his teammates, with whom he has shared the national team locker room on many occasions. In addition, he speaks the same “football” language, so he should have no problem fitting in [to the Barça system].

    Any player that is signed from outside the Barça system has to almost always go through a period of adjustment, both personally and as a player, and they have to be able to fit into the tiki-taka possession game, which demands a great deal from all of the players. Ibrahimovic, despite his unquestionable talent and skill, one might argue, has been challenged to create his place in the system and has yet to do so, consistently. David Villa, on the other hand, already knows the system in his sleep — as does the only other player Pep seems to have wanted to sign (according to Sport) — Cesc Fàbregas.

    Thus, as the merits of Guardiola’s two plans, as presented by Sport, are debated below, keep the above points in mind — any player that is bought must be able to adapt quickly to the Barça system. Do these plans sound feasible? Is Ibra ready to take his place among the starters again? Does Guardiola still need to sign a couple of more players? Who might that be? And would they adapt quickly enough to the system?
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    Post by fcb Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:54 am

    In case anyone's interested, here's a long but interesting article from SPORT about how the youth programs at Barça were revamped in 2007 (when Guardiola arrived)...this was meant to create a more structured manner of developing players and bringing them through to the first team.

    I can't be bothered to translate it all so chuck it into Google Translate if you don't understand Spanish.

    http://sport.es/default.asp?idpublicacio_PK=44&idioma=CAS&idnoticia_PK=724176&idseccio_PK=803


    La Masía, como un laboratorio

    Desde 2007, el FC Barcelona ha programado científicamente el crecimiento de sus canteranos y hoy recoge los frutos con una hornada espectacular

    Tanto Guardiola como Luis Enrique han cosechado triunfos en el FC Barcelona y, en ambos casos, con mucha gente de la casa

    Desde hace veinte años, el Barça confía en su cantera. La propuesta fue de Cruyff, pero curiosamente la decisión la tomó Núñez, un presidente que siempre se había distinguido por fichar a los mejores futbolistas del mundo. Oriol Tort fue el alma del proyecto que dos décadas más tarde arroja unos frutos excepcionales. Cuando Louis van Gaal expresó su deseo de que el Barça ganara algún día la Champions con once futbolistas de la casa, las carcajadas recorrieron el entorno barcelonista, pero ese sueño está hoy mucho más cerca. De hecho, en la Champions conquistada en Roma jugaron ocho hombres salidos de La Masía y otros dos se quedaron en el banquillo. Más de la mitad de las fichas del primer equipo está hoy en manos de canteranos, así que el reto imposible de Van Gaal ya está al alcance de la mano, en especial ahora que Guardiola ha tomado la decisión rotunda de que los próximos fichajes sean del Barça B, justo cuando Wenger acaba de manifestar que se le está acabando la paciencia con los jóvenes...

    AL INFIERNO Y NO POR CASUALIDAD

    Mayo de 2007: el Barça B se precipita al infierno de la Tercera División, arrastrando al ‘C’ a la práctica desaparición. No es casualidad, sino resultado de una gestión errónea desde todos los puntos de vista. El Barça B es un equipo sin alma ni futuro, sin objetivos concretos y mesurables, casi un equipo de compromiso para una directiva que ha puesto todo el interés en los éxitos del primer equipo. Cortoplacismo puro. El filial predestinado a nutrir de figuras al club está ahora abocado a una categoría infernal, la de los olvidados. Las condiciones competitivas y de maduración se empobrecen y la distancia con el primer equipo se agiganta.

    Pero más allá de lo que significa el descenso en cuanto a la gestión del segundo equipo, la pérdida de categoría subraya las deficiencias de la estructura y del propio sistema formativo del Barça. El filial no se sostiene como equipo, pero además no ha habido en toda la cantera capacidad suficiente ni recursos humanos de categoría para ayudarle a evitar el desenlace. A nivel macroestructural, el Barça Atlétic ha adquirido todos los rasgos de los equipos modestos, poco competitivos y sin ambición: un equipo insustancial, anodino y terminal cuyo único objetivo tangible es no perder la categoría en finales de temporada agónicos.

    El filial carece de guión. A nivel microestructural, es un equipo donde los buenos jugadores apenas duran. No existen parámetros de medición que configuren la hoja de ruta imprescindible para la formación del jugador una vez terminada la edad juvenil. Salvo los que destacan poderosamente, el resto languidece en el ‘B’ a la espera de una oportunidad que jamás llega. Sí, Rijkaard ha ascendido a Messi, Bojan y Gio Dos Santos y el barcelonismo parece satisfecho con los frutos de la cantera, pero en realidad no existe un flujo continuado: el filial no es el proveedor oficial del primer equipo, sino sólo un pequeño rellano en el que se detienen las grandes figuras antes de dar el salto. Además, han proliferado los fichajes externos de futbolistas sin proyección real, que simplemente llegaban para ayudar al filial a salvar la categoría y a cambio ralentizaban el proceso formativo de los más jóvenes, cuando no lo cercenaban. El sistema y el marco de desarrollo del filial quedan retratados con el descenso a Tercera: es un sistema anquilosado, arcaico, confuso e inadecuado a la realidad del siglo XXI.

    LA CATARSIS Y EL GUION

    Hay que hacer catarsis y la directiva de Laporta lo comprende. Llega Guardiola y llega un guión: primero, recuperar el ‘B’; más tarde, el Juvenil; sólo después (y eso ha sido hace apenas un mes) las categorías formativas inferiores hasta llegar al benjamín. Les explico detalladamente en qué consiste el guión que diseñaron Guardiola y su gente en 2007. Como conceptos, se organiza en tres ejes:

    1. Entorno logístico
    2. Perfil gestor
    3. Organigrama técnico

    La premisa básica de los nuevos tiempos es que el talento no basta para ser competitivo. Hay que ser profesional y modernizarse. La Ciutat Esportiva es clave porque permite enclaustrar a los jugadores en un entorno profesional, rodeados de recursos tecnológicos que permitirán seguir sus entrenamientos y trayectorias, corregirles y formarles, acercarles a la élite. Un laboratorio de I+D para inculcar el estilo futbolístico a unos jugadores que empiezan a saber lo que significa ser profesional.

    Los gestores son conocidos: Guardiola primero, Luis Enrique más tarde. Y finalmente, estas semanas los nuevos cambios de organigrama y técnicos para seguir profundizando en las ideas nacidas en 2007. Gestores elegidos porque saben combinar el máximo rigor profesional con un trato cercano y cariñoso en clave competitiva. Gestores que se convierten en líderes. Líderes que hacen una propuesta concreta en materia deportiva:

    1. Competitividad
    2. Formación
    3. Cultura deportiva

    El Barça ‘B’ ya no será un simple peldaño de transición, sino que empieza a ser considerado y gestionado como un equipo más: joven, pero con el mismo interés por competir que cualquier otro. Pero no competir sin objetivos, sino para obtener el máximo: ser campeón en la categoría en que milite. Y con altísima competitividad interna: quien se duerma pierde el puesto porque siempre hay otro, o incluso algún juvenil, dispuesto a ocuparlo. Además, debe lograrse respetando los parámetros formativos impuestos: jóvenes que aprenden a diario el oficio, que son corregidos global o individualmente, que aprenden estrategia, táctica y comportamiento en el campo y fuera de él.

    La llegada de ex futbolistas de alto nivel a esa estructura aporta un plus en cuanto a infundir los valores de una verdadera y creíble cultura deportiva. Más que deportiva, deberíamos hablar de cultura del esfuerzo. Una cultura deportiva fundamentada en valores alejados del glamour o el pedigrí frívolo de pertenecer a un club como el Barça y formar parte de su cantera en tanto que potenciales figuras del futuro. Cada día, cada entrenamiento, cada charla se impregna de valores tales como esfuerzo, sacrificio, respeto, responsabilidad, humildad, rigor, profesionalidad, exigencia, ambición, solidaridad, constancia y generosidad. Valores que expresan entrenadores que han sido grandes campeones y que deben ponerse en paralelo con el objetivo competitivo: ¿qué mérito tendrá dentro de veinte años, les preguntan Guardiola y Luis Enrique, decir que jugásteis en el Barça B si no fuisteis capaces de subir de Tercera División?

    VERTEBRADORES Y PERLAS

    En resumen, se definen unos valores ideológicos para el Barça B marcando límites y ambiciones competitivas, dotando al equipo de una logística técnica y humana innovadora para obtener un doble objetivo: que sea un conjunto de profundas raíces formativas, pero con altísima capacidad de competir en cualquier categoría. Y de aquí surge un plan microdetallado que divide a los jugadores en dos grandes categorías:

    1. Los vertebradores
    2. Las perlas

    Los primeros son los que ‘sujetan’ al equipo competitivamente sin que tenga trascendencia excesiva su procedencia, si han sido fichados o si superan el promedio de edad del conjunto.

    Son jugadores por lo general algo mayores a la media, experimentados, sobrios y sin excesos, ubicados de forma estratégica por líneas para mantener el ritmo competitivo sin frenar el crecimiento de los segundos, las perlas, los señalados con un asterisco rojo por su valor especial y que siguen un proceso pautado, estratificado, prudente, sin prisas, que permita maximizar su progresión formativa. El promedio del equipo ha de tener entre dos años y dos años y medio de competición profesionales como media.

    Para definir a los ‘vertebradores’ se tiene en cuenta la edad, tipología, perfil futbolístico y durabilidad. Como mínimo han de tener 21 años y como máximo, 26. Deben repartirse homogéneamente por las distintas líneas, para ejercer como sostén de seguridad para los más jóvenes. Y como máximo estarán dos años en el B a fin de evitar que frenen a los de abajo. Su objetivo individual será brillar en el segundo equipo de la ‘marca Barça’ para lograr con posterioridad una salida profesional relevante. A esta regla de las dos temporadas se aplica una excepción en caso de lesión importante. Jugadores con este perfil son o han sido Córcoles, Espasandín, Chico, Dimas, Abraham, Longás, Xavi Torres, Víctor Vázquez, Benja, Armando, Nolito, Edu Oriol o Jonathan Soriano. El de menos duración en el equipo ha sido Chico, con sólo seis meses; y el de mayor, Víctor Vázquez, que ya suma el cuarto año a causa de la grave lesión que sufrió. El ‘B’ tendrá cada año varios hombres de este perfil: los que sujetan el esqueleto en el orden competitivo y permiten el crecimiento de las perlas.

    Desde este punto de vista es como se comprende la actual petición de varios futbolistas externos por parte de Luis Enrique: el mediapunta Carlos Carmona (23 años, ex Recre) o el delantero Saúl Berjón (24 años, ex Las Palmas).

    TRES FASES OBLIGATORIAS

    Las perlas proceden del Juvenil y se agrupan en dos bloques esenciales: juveniles totalmente formados (que entre uno y dos años deberán dar el gran salto) y juveniles de último año, que tendrán un margen de entre 1,5 y 2,5 años para confirmarse. Se les estratifica en tres fases:

    Fase 1. Reserva-rotación: su única obligación es competir. No se espera de él nada determinante ni se penalizan sus errores. Se pretende que conozca el medio profesional y adquiera minutos.

    Fase 2. Rotación-maduración: el jugador ya siente que forma parte permanente de la estructura y ha de tomar conciencia de que su aportación es decisiva: es corresponsable del rendimiento general.

    Fase 3. Jugador clave: Esta fase define el futuro de la perla. Entra en el grupo de los jugadores más próximos al primer equipo y adquiere el status de jugador clave del ‘B’. Acumula dos fases más que la mayoría de sus compañeros por lo que tiene la obligación de tirar del equipo y garantizar su competitividad. Es responsable directo de la evolución del equipo. Ha de estar en tensión constante por si es llamado por el primer equipo. Su futuro se decide en esta fase.

    Para cada una de estas fases se fija un período de entre 6 y 9 meses. El futbolista que llega al ‘B’ lo hace procedente del Juvenil, bien una vez finalizada su etapa juvenil y entonces tiene dos años para triunfar en el ‘B’; bien todavía en último año de juvenil y el período se amplía a 3 años. En cualquier caso, a los 21 se evaluará definitivamente su progresión y potencial y el posible salto al primer equipo del Barça. De no ser factible, habrá adquirido un perfil reconocible y unos valores excelentes que le permitirán proseguir su carrera profesional en otros clubes.

    EL GRAN LABORATORIO DE I+D

    Su desarrollo será equilibrado, ni demasiado deprisa, lo que sería perjudicial, ni tan lento que le hiciera acomodarse sin progreso. Si el talento es deslumbrante se pueden acelerar los plazos, pero no se evitan las tres fases. Si acaso, se reduce su duración, pero no se saltan las etapas. Es por esa razón que en ocasiones el cuadro técnico ha adoptado decisiones que parecían contradictorias, al subir y volver a bajar a futbolistas entre los distintos equipos. Pero todo ello obedece a la programación indicada y no a caprichos. En el capítulo de los jugadores-perlas, la lista que se ha manejado en las tres últimas temporadas ha sido la compuesta por hombres como Marc Valiente, Victor Sánchez, Jeffren, Urbano, Rueda, Marc Crosas, Toribio, Pedro, Pau Torres, Oier, Iago Falqué, Alberto Botía, Bolaños, Sergio Busquets, Jonathan, Thiago Alcántara o Gai Assulin. Como es lógico, algunos de ellos alcanzaron el primer equipo (y son campeones mundiales, incluso), otros están a un paso de hacerlo; algunos llegaron y no pudieron confirmar su talento; y otros ya abandonaron el club.

    El curso pasado, las perlas que manejaba el ‘B’ incluían a Miño, Fontàs, Martín Montoya, Carles Planas, Rochina, Oriol Romeu, Masip, Benítez, Bartra, Muniesa, Sergi Gómez, Albert Dalmau, Luque, Riverola y Sergi Roberto, nombres que pueblan las selecciones españolas inferiores y colaboraron poderosamente en el ascenso a Segunda División. El proceso para todos ellos continúa imparable, incluso más fuerte que nunca a partir del nuevo organigrama técnico establecido hace unas semanas separando el fútbol profesional (incluyendo al juvenil) del formativo. Ese organigrama oficializa los planes diseñados en 2007 por Guardiola y Luis Enrique y modifica estructuralmente el concepto de la cantera en el Barça. Ya no es una bolsa de jugadores a la que acudir en caso de apuro, sino una auténtica escuela de formación, con sus planes y fases estrictamente programadas y mesurables y con sus objetivos pautados. Ahora mismo se ha convertido no sólo en un laboratorio de investigación y desarrollo avanzado, sino en la decisión estratégica más importante del Barça en la última década.


    I've bolded 3 different lists of players names that they mention in the article:

    The first list is of players that are considered the "spine" of the B team and not expected to be good enough to become first team players.

    The 2nd list they mention is of "pearls" from the past few years. Players who have a very specific program of development, and are expected to become first team players. Obviously quite a few of them don't work out.

    The 3rd list is the "pearls" of the current generation. Many of these are already starting to make the odd appearance with the first team, and feature prominently at U-19, U-20, U-21 levels for Spain.
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    Post by Guest Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:55 pm

    The revamp was mainly due to barca atletic getting relegated, which meant a big reshuffle had to take place, it just so happens that pep took over at the same time.

    if it didn't happen the same player would have came through anyways, with the exception of busquets an pedro.
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    Post by Hem fet un.. Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:20 pm

    I know this acting like a spoilt kid... but I cant believe we wont be signing anybody else. Villa is a great signing and Adriano will be useful, but I still think that the squad is weaker than last year. I dont think we had any real problems scoring and losing the 2 CBs will put pressure on an old Puyol and some kids, and well... no need to mention that Toure is a huge loss
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    Post by Guest Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:13 pm

    i don't think the squad is weaker than last season, it maybe lacking in numbers but is now weaker.

    We have brought in Villa to replace a ineffective henry, he will go into the XI and pedro will become a crack super sub and bojan showed at the end of the season, that he is ready to really help the team when needed.

    This will enable us to rotate the front line more effectively. more rest of messi.

    ----Villa/Pedro---Ibra/Boja----Messi/Jeffern>>Henry/Pedro---Ibra/Bojan--Messi/Jeffern

    Thus IMO our front line as Improved.

    Adriano is a jack of all trades that can cover almost every aera in midfield, we also will have a fit and effective iniesta back, he was out for nearly the entire season, last term.
    we have lost Yaya, but in truth he was that great last season, and pep didn't depend on him that much.

    The Return of a fully fit iniesta, is worth more than the lost of yaya.

    a fit iniesta,JDS,Thiago and Oriol, more depth in midfield, more rest of Xavi.

    as for the defense, Chygrynskiy and Marquez are out, both were shit last season, we will have a fit again Milito from day one and it looks like caceres will stay on, a combo of him and fontas can do no worst that chygrynsky and marquez.

    if anything we have improved in that position, from were we ended last season, not to mention we now have a back up for alves, so when he needs a rest we no longer have to move puyol to rightback.

    at the very worst we have stayed the same at the back.

    the only place we have gotten weaker in at DM, and we will just have to trust pep's decision on oriol.

    The the inclusion of Villa and adriano and the fact that milito is back fit and Bojan showing increasing maturity, means IMO Pep's first 16/1,

    VV,Pinto
    Alves,Adriano
    Puyol,Pique,Milito
    Maxwell,Abidal
    Busquets
    Xavi,Iniesta,Keita
    Messi,Pedro
    Ibra,Villa

    is no weaker than last season and we all know is only really relays on a core group of 16 players no matter what. you can probably add bojan to that now

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    Post by King Modric Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:21 pm

    Is it Pep's decision to not bring in new players or is it Rosell's?
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    Post by Guest Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:31 pm

    I think its pep rosell said we have 45m euros to spend, but their is an article on football365, that suggest its rosell who doesn't want to buy ad it he he that got rid of not only chygrynkiy but yaya as well.

    i think thats wrong, as while pep probably wanted yaya to say, he was against him leaving either based on how he used him last season.

    Also said pep and rosell doesn't get along and pep could walk this season, as pep doesn't have as much control has he has under laporta after winning the 6 titles, laporta basically made pep run everything that has to do with football and gave him the check book, anyone he wanted laporta would get, not so anymore with rosell.
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    Post by Guest Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:04 am

    caceres is heading back to italy, Helb to the prem
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    Post by fcb Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:13 am

    That article on F365 was well off the mark though. Surprising because Tim Stannard usually writes a good column on F365 and of course his blog La Liga Loca is excellent.

    I mean, his basic thesis was correct that Guardiola and Rosell don't really get on (neither do Cruyff and Rosell...they recently had talks to call a truce according to Marca), but his backing arguments were all wrong/exaggerated.

    The only decision the club took without giving Guardiola a say was the sale of Chygrinskiy. Nobody at the club wanted Toure to go...Man. City's wages of 200k plus a week made that decision. Of course you could argue that it was Guardiola who indirectly contributed to him leaving by playing Busquets more often last season...but that's a discussion for another thread (which has already been done).

    And as for the new signings, it's clearly Guardiola who has vetoed them all and chosen to go with youth. None of the names available apparently convinced him in terms of what they would bring to the squad considering the price that would be paid: Robinho and Mascherano are the two key names in this regard. The player he did want was Cesc, and the club did everything to try and sign him but it didn't work out.

    The Ibrahimovic situation is interesting. I really don't know if Guardiola wants him out or not. A couple of days ago he was very cryptic when asked about it:
    "For the good of the institution, it is better not to say anything about Ibra. I will not say anything about the situation that is being generated, which is being discussed by the club and his representative. All I can say is that he is here and much better than last year at this point."

    I think there's a genuine case of opinion being split within the club on what to do with Ibrahimovic. If he does go (City or Milan the most likely) then there'll be a player swap involved, and possibly another signing. Only 11-12 days left in the transfer window though, so I'm not sure how much can be achieved in such a short time.

    I agree with Hem Fet that the squad is weaker, mainly due to being so small. I felt it was too small last season already.

    But Messiah's perspective is true as well: Pep never rotates much anyway, and always has a core of 16 players that he plays heavily. Just look at how Caceres and Hleb were ignored in 2008-2009.

    And I do think that we'll see more of the "lopsided" formations that we saw in some games last year (most notably in the 2nd Clasico where Alves played in midfield), with Adriano or Maxwell filling in as a "carrilero" in midfield, in an advanced position ahead of their fullback. This should hopefully add a tactical twist that opponents have yet to figure out. Also opens up the possibility of a genuine 3-4-3 (or even 3-5-2) being played more often.

    I fear though that at some point an injury/fatigue crisis is really going to come back and hurt us. Especially with just a bit too many kids in the team this year, an Arsenal-style situation is quite likely...all the players are talented and everything looks great on paper...you can't see anything other than success, but in reality it just doesn't work out.

    ------------------------------------------

    For anyone who's interested, SPORT has a couple of articles with detailed profiles of Jonathan dos Santos and Fontas - their history at the club, their style of play, strengths, weaknesses, etc.

    ------------------------------------------

    Ronaldinho and the World Cup players will be paid tributes at the Gamper next Wednesday against Milan Ale

    ------------------------------------------

    btw, the official site is back to normal now. No more "attack threat" or whatever it was.

    Was just browsing through their latest articles, and it seems all 21 players (senior squad plus Hleb and Caceres) are now in full training, along with 9 from the youth team: Masip, Miño, Oier (all keepers), Fontàs, Sergi Gomez, Oriol Romeu, Jonathan dos Santos, Thiago and Victor Vazquez.

    I think this gives us a good idea of what names Guardiola is focusing on to provide depth for the first team: we already know about Fontas, Oriol, Jonathan, and Thiago. Mino is likely to be the 3rd keeper. Sergi Gomez played in the Supercopa as well, and will probably form the backup pool along with Victor Vazquez, Muniesa, Bartra, etc.


    Possible 25 man squad???

    Valdes, Pinto, Mino
    Alves, Adriano
    Puyol, Milito, Sergi Gomez
    Pique, Fontas
    Abidal, Maxwell
    Busquets, Oriol
    Xavi, Keita, Thiago
    Iniesta, Jonathan
    Messi, Jeffren
    Ibrahimovic, Bojan
    Villa, Pedro
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    Post by Guest Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:24 pm

    yep the footballl 365 article was way off.

    is it a case where if a player is register with the senior team they cannot play with barca atletic?.
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    Post by fcb Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:34 pm

    Not sure of the rules for going downwards...but I don't think it's not allowed. After all, you can always "banish a player to the reserves", can't you Smile

    It raises an interesting point actually. IIRC, any players from the B team that make more than 10 appearances for the senior team, must be registered as a senior player. So if Guardiola's going to give Jonathan and Oriol a lot of minutes, he needs to decide now.

    Or am I totally wrong?
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    Post by Guest Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:44 pm

    thats what i thought as well, but i think i was reading in sport, that since barca atletic are now in the 2nd division,the players can now go up and down as many times as needed, not completely sure.


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    Post by Guest Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:49 pm

    it seems as if up to 10 of our player wiil be traveling to south america after the first game of the season to play and game with argentina.

    honestly what the fuck is wrong with the spanish FA
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    Post by Jaime Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:51 pm

    If they are registered with the first team and have a professional contract then they can't go back down to play for the filial. If they are registered with the 'B' team and they are under the age of 23 then they can go back and forth with out any limitations. At least that is how I understand it. I think kas' reference to 'banishing someone to the reserves' is possible in England but I think the rules are different.
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    Post by Guest Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:58 pm

    Jaime wrote:If they are registered with the first team and have a professional contract then they can't go back down to play for the filial. If they are registered with the 'B' team and they are under the age of 23 then they can go back and forth with out any limitations. At least that is how I understand it. I think kas' reference to 'banishing someone to the reserves' is possible in England but I think the rules are different.

    I guess this is what the sport article was talking about

    Ok, thanks for clearing that up jaime.

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    Post by Hem fet un.. Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:31 pm

    Jaime wrote:If they are registered with the first team and have a professional contract then they can't go back down to play for the filial. If they are registered with the 'B' team and they are under the age of 23 then they can go back and forth with out any limitations. At least that is how I understand it. I think kas' reference to 'banishing someone to the reserves' is possible in England but I think the rules are different.

    Sounds like football manager Wink
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    Post by Calidad Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:50 pm

    Looking at Jonathan + Thiago. My rather embryonic, and I guess, uneducated opinion is that the former will never be a top class player, but a solid sort of midfielder who can adequately fill in as a squad player at a top club, and will probably be regular at intl level for Mexico too.

    I feel Thiago's potential is greater, and I think he has that 'x factor' in his game that could make him become a pretty distinguished player. Whether this is at Barca or not, I don't know, but I certainly feel he has the talent to become a genuine star.

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    Post by Hem fet un.. Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:54 pm

    Calidad wrote:Looking at Jonathan + Thiago. My rather embryonic, and I guess, uneducated opinion is that the former will never be a top class player, but a solid sort of midfielder who can adequately fill in as a squad player at a top club, and will probably be regular at intl level for Mexico too.

    I feel Thiago's potential is greater, and I think he has that 'x factor' in his game that could make him become a pretty distinguished player. Whether this is at Barca or not, I don't know, but I certainly feel he has the talent to become a genuine star.

    ok

    I agree.. I dont see JDS as a huge star.
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    Post by Guest Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:00 pm

    i don't think anyone bar Pep sees JDS as being a star player, but he was the only one that saw busquets and Pedro has well, so we never know.

    Thiago will be the business, don't know if that will be at barca are another club.
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    Post by Calidad Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:22 pm

    I think JDS can become a very good player, but probably not of the sort of calibre that would justify him starting for Barca, except to give others a rest. That said, I wouldn't forsee him having any issues playing alonsgside Xaviesta, and I think he's capable of filling in here and there without Barca's possession game suffering all that much. I think he'll end up being a solid, if unspectacular player, which is of course the case for players such as Mascherano who are arguably WC, but I don't think JDS has quite that defensive quality in his game.

    With Thiago, I feel he is a special talent. So graceful on the ball, and I think if he blossoms is probably capable of scoring 5-10 more goals than Xaviesta from MF each season, whilst also having their other qualities. Without wanting to sound to hyperbole, I actually think he has the qualities of both and weaknesses of neither. That's not to say, he is as developed in any of these areas as Xaviesta, but I think he has the potential too. To put it somewhat ineloquently, I think he'll show a bit more grit in his play.

    I think he has a tenacity in his play that neither have (i.e although not the biggest, I've seen him on a number of times quite happily stick his foot in, or make a gutsy slide tackle) and for all of their qualities, this is something Xaviesta don't do enough.

    In terms of dribbling, I don't think he'll quite matchup to Iniesta's levels (but few do anyway), but I think he'll eclipse Xavi in this regard. Pace wise, he's probaby a yard or two short of Iniesta, but comfortably pacier than Xavi. He's a bag of tricks too, although, positively (if that's not an oxymoron!), he's rather selective in his use of them. But you can definitely see the Brasilian in him.

    In terms of passing, particularly long range, I think his game could develop ahead Iniesta's too, though I feel Iniesta's game has suffered in this regard due to him playing LW a lot of the time, hopefully something Thiago isn't made to do, as he does so that same versatility in his game too.

    Already a better set-piece taker than both of them.

    If he's given ample opportunities (i.e chances to fuck up et all) and freedom to play his game, I think he'll succeed. He certaintly has as good a selection of mentors (Pep, Xaviesta) as one could wish for.

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