Germany, where did it all go wrong ?

@fellow Teutons

we need to get our TEETH into this little puzzle EVENTUALLY

to get CLOSURE

I suppose

so why was our "best" not good enough ?

where did it all go wrong ?

why so good against England/Argentina, yet so poort against Espana ?

why was the Euro FINAL against them Spaniards so eerily similar to this World Cup Semi ?

and since WHEN has football become a NON-contact sport for Teutons ?

our lads committed their first foul in the 39th minute

total number of YELLOW cards in a SEMI (for Germany) : ZERO

de Bosque said after the game that Germany had made it SURPRISINGLY EASY

that the battles against the likes of the "uays" (I think) had been far tougher

when Thomas Müller was interviewed after the game, the ARD chap suggested that the SEMI experience would stand the MANNSCHAFT in good stead for the future, no doubt

to which the 20-year-old replied point-blank

"we were already in the SEMI four years ago, and it does not seem to have helped us now"



so what NOW ?

will there be progress

or are we now officially a SEMI country just like Argentina and Brazil have become QUARTER countries ?

WHITHER Germany ?

I think you should be focusing on all the things you got right.

Ä wrote:or are we now officially a SEMI country just like Argentina and Brazil have become QUARTER countries ?

WHITHER Germany ?

OHH FUCK OFF Otto.

Wither Germany, surely?

You went wrong copying the EPL................

There are some good youngsters in this team (Kroos, Muller, Ozil, Kedira, etc) which will be the backbone of the future team.

What happened to "ze German mentality", they haven't won anything since 1996. When ar they going to dominate the world again, which they haven't for a long time?

Alive and Kicking wrote:There are some good youngsters in this team (Kroos, Muller, Ozil, Kedira, etc) which will be the backbone of the future team.

What happened to "ze German mentality", they haven't won anything since 1996. When ar they going to dominate the world again, which they haven't for a long time?

they need to naturalise some spanish youngsters for the midfield, and maybe some italians for the defence and they'll be fine

they germans pissed in there pants against there paragons

when all of our players would be young lads that wouldn`t happen, then we would have played like real germans

this is still an effect of the 1998-2000 years, were we lacked talents, now we have talents, but too many of them in the team, once they are real men germany will bounce back

and this team looks different too 2006, thats the reason the 2006 semi final dont have much influence in this team

i think about our new formation

----kedhira (27)----schweinsteiger (29)
müller (24)-----kroos (24)---------özil (25)
---------klose/podolski (29)/gomez (28)

so old will be the players at the next WC, in the defence we should have no problems

i think in footballing terms no other nation would come as close to spain as we would

now we have time to gel, not only 6 weeks of working together

I dont think a lot went wrong. Loew got the most of this squad. Amazing to achieve the same result as that Sommermarchen in 2006..at home and here he did it with kids.

German played the same as Holland in '08 and that is very awesome and entertaining to watch, but sucks when you are 1-0 behind.

I do think the Germans could use a bit more Sturm und Drang, perhaps they peaked too early? And they seem to lack a winning mentality.

no team can win once they are 1:0 down to spain


and against serbia we played well with 10 men

Germany played to the max. I think you can be real proud about how your team has developed. You are in a period of change with a bright future ahead.

How many countries can say they reached the semi finals while the team is just in development...?

Be proud and if things go well in the near future there will be lot to cheer about!



three 's for the German team and Joachim Löw

latest reports

Löw will extend his contract for two years

Bierhoff will probably be part of the deal

which could lead to the resignation of Sammer, Bierhoff's archenemy, as Youth Sports Director

""8.43 Uhr: Doch die Vertragsverlängerung birgt auch Konfliktpotenzial. Denn der Machtkampf zwischen Sportdirektor Matthias Sammer und Manager Oliver Bierhoff, der zu WM-Zeiten ruht, könnte in eine neue Runde gehen. Die "Bild" glaubt sogar, Sammer könnte hinschmeißen, wenn die Kompetenzen nicht anders als bisher verteilt werden. Problemfeld ist unter anderem der Einfluss von Bierhoff und Löw im Bereich der U21. Unterstützung findet Sammer offenbar bei den DFL-Bossen, Theo Zwanziger hingegen würde am liebsten mit Sammer und Bierhoff weitermachen."

Fuck it.
I don't understand why they want influence in the youth department. They should let Sammer and Co do their excellent work their and be glad that they have so many talents to choose from.
But Bierhoff has to go.

About Löw: Even when I think his substitutions are always rather poor and his squad selection was not perfect...I think I will survive another two years with him in charge. The play style was good and the players like him, which is also important. If you change the coach you have a complete new tactical approach, some players will feel uncomfortable (some could need a kick in the arse though). So lets see if Löw doesn't change his team every game and gel them during the next two years it could work out.

Bierhoff, INDEED,

HAS to go

but Löw will insist on keeping him and that will be the end of the matter

if this leads to Sammer's departure , it would NOT be a price worth paying

antari, you are rather kind to Löw

he got his tactics ALL wrong against Spain YET AGAIN

there is no learning process AT ALL

the SZ has a good article about the "bizarre" Semi against Spain

it was almost as if we played it like a FRIENDLY

it was 100% devoid of KAMPF, EFFORT, FIGHT...

even after the game, everybody was back to normal VERY FAST

Löw was well composed and did not seem to mind

Schweini looked disappointed, agree

Lahm seemed to be upset; agree

but probably mostly because he had failed to kick Ballack out of the team with his non-performance as a player and captain

he had challenged the ONE and FAILED

in front of billions of people

GENUINE FURY or DISAPPOINMENT: Fehlanzeige

it fits in well with how Löw presents himself to the world

"kein Haar an der falschen Stelle, keine Falte im Pullover"

Marcel Reif says in Tagesspiegel that Löw got his TACTICS

ALL WRONG

and anybody who has watched the other Spain games can confirm it

why did the FAMOUS Siegenthaler SCOUTING /ANALYSIS not work ?

AFTEr the game, Löw was asked whether he had tried too many left-backs, for instance (Badstuber, Boateng, Jansen)

and he seemed to reply that they still had AOGO they could try next

in general, the importance of a manager is exaggerated

or rather

teams can be VERY successful with an AVERAGE manager at best

think of France in 2006 with Domenach or Germany under Vogts

for this to work, you need the players to sort out problems by themselves on/off the pitch

Löw has kicked those "independently minded" players out though

alternatively, we KEEP a set of players and send them on an educational journey over a few years

pick a squad and let them play for 4 + years as a unit

they will grow together, and use the positive and negative experiences to become a REAL FORCE

but Löw will not allow it: as far as I understand he has tried more players per year than ANY Nationaltrainer EVER BEFORE

(see the Aogo reference)

over the next two years, Löw will give extended periods to Hummels, Höwedes, Träsch, Reus, the Benders, Helmes (again), Westermann (in the centre and on the wings), Marin, Hunt (after a good season), the latest discoveries at Hoffenheim....

"özil" on here is right when he says that Germany did not learn from the Final against Spain two years ago, because so many players were on the pitch this time, who were NEW

by the same token, this World Cup will be largely irrelevant to Euro 2012 in terms of being a learning experience

we will perfect our excellent counterattacking game

but it will only work when there is something to counter-attack

when we trail by a goal or two, we have no plan B

we have become as a team what Robben is as a player

"one-trick"

VERY GOOD at ONE thing

but ONE-DIMENSIONAL

it will always get the NEUTRALS vote, because it entertains for 1-3 games a tournament

but why should we become the World's entertainment reps

when we can become World CHAMPS ?

in other words

we are the NEW HOLLAND / Argentina

whereas the boring Dutch / Spanish are the new GERMANS

Ä wrote:

antari, you are rather kind to Löw

he got his tactics ALL wrong against Spain YET AGAIN

there is no learning process AT ALL

the SZ has a good article about the "bizarre" Semi against Spain

it was almost as if we played it like a FRIENDLY

it was 100% devoid of KAMPF, EFFORT, FIGHT...

even after the game, everybody was back to normal VERY FAST

Löw was well composed and did not seem to mind

Schweini looked disappointed, agree

Lahm seemed to be upset; agree

but probably mostly because he had failed to kick Ballack out of the team with his non-performance as a player and captain

he had challenged the ONE and FAILED

in front of billions of people

Spot on. It was all so polite. Robinho was frothing at the mouth against Holland, and you can see the desire in the Dutch throughout the tournament. But there were so many back-slaps from the Germans and Spanish that it looked like a pre-season training game.

Well I agree actually that with Löw we will see good football most of the time but won't win anything. The new Holland.

Its a bit of a dilemma: Keep Löw and hope he won't use 1000 new players over the next two years and see if he can bring up new strategies for games where you can't counterattack, have to make the game, come back from behind, make good subs etc.

As it looks right now, he will not learn anything and we will see the same performance 2012 where we will lose in the semis against Spain/Italy

But if we change the coach now, some players like Poldi probably wont be on fire for the N11 anymore because not everyone can cope with Sammers Dickschädel. (Speziell die Wohlfühlspieler.) And if they can catch up another tactical style, because I think he won't use exactly the same tactics and ingame movements as Löw did. Which might be a setback at first.

There is no perfect solution. A combined team "Löw + X" wouldn't work either.

Maybe it's indeed better to get a new coach, Löw had his 4 years of "glory" time for a change to let the players have a new mindset.

where did it get wrong for Germany ?

well

maybe it started HERE

Yup : all pussycats and no maneaters

This would be the team of "etterbakken" of the tournament :

Felipe Melo, Mark Van Bommel, Luis Suarez, Pepe, Robinho, Cristiano Ronaldo, Gabriel Heinze, Diego Perez, Javier Mascherano, Victor Caceres en Siaka Tiene

Not a single German in sight

Otto..the answer is SIMPLE

How many of these players:




Would paint themselves into animals during a WC? I HATE this new Germany for the fact I can't hate them!

Think about it

this is the FIRST generation of Mannschafters that not only KNOWS what a pedi- and manicure is

but

that could not survive WITHOUT one

on a regular basis

because

they are WORTH IT

@fey

stop posting pictures of the HEROES of 1990

it breaks my heart

While it's desperately disappointing to think what might have been achieved with a slightly more ambitious approach in the last game, pressing the Spanish further up the pitch, and whether Müller might have made a difference (he's part of the same point, as he would have posed the Spanish defence problems Trochowski couldn't)...

(I've just remembered Müller's first yellow was for a high boot while performing an OVERHEAD kick against Serbia, even more of a joke, such an injustice) –

I think I speak for several in pointing out to you Otto that you won't be taken seriously till you apologize to Löw and the German people and admit once and for all that you know nothing about football.

It went wrong with this German team being actually pleasing on the eyes and (most) of the German posters on here being very likeable too : even the Dutches started supporting you lot....


....a greater kiss of death can't be found in international football


Yet I bet you enjoyed watching your country a lot more than I did mine, even though you went out and we might end up winning the entire thing

They needed faster CBs so they could play a higher line. Also a CF who doesn't only do it against weak defences would have made a big difference. Otherwise as long as the likes of Khedira improve as expected they should be fine.

A piece the likes of Otto will hate, going as it does way overboard in praise of the Spanish:

http://www.focus.de/sport/fussball/wm-2010/deutsches-team/tid-19016/wm-2010-halbfinale-gegen-spanien-die-schoenste-niederlage-der-deutschen_aid_528049.html

And as with Löw, the anti-Otto (SZ):

"Sein Respekt vor den Spaniern, die er immer wieder als Vorbild pries, war groß. Wahrscheinlich so groß, dass er diesen auf seine Spieler übertrug, die dann ehrfürchtig und mutlos auf den Rasen gingen. Er hatte diesen Fehler schon einmal begangen, vor dem Testspiel im März gegen Argentinien. Doch er konnte als Fußballexperte wohl nicht aus seiner Haut, er wusste, dass die Spanier einfach gut sind."

Of course at the same time it is true that the German team are culpable for not being more aggressive and ambitious, they allowed Spain too much. But the key, as ever, is nuance and balance: something which some people simply do not understand.

Germany seem to lack a winning mentality at the moment. There weren't high expectations for Germany before the beginning of the past three World Cups. They seem to lack ambition when they reach the final stages as if they had done enough. I never thought that a footballing force like Germany would celebrate a WC defeat at home like you did in 2006.

I don't know where you get this "lack of a winning mentality" after the tournament the boys have just played contrary to most expectations. Spain were better dammit, and yes, the team should have been more aggressive as I keep saying – and perhaps that's partly Löw's fault – but I definitely think it's going too far to say they didn't believe they could win. The young guys should only get better; in the meantime it's not this devastating result that will be celebrated – it won't, it's being mourned, a semi isn't good enough – but the team and squad, for their exhilarating displays, which were fun, that's what football's supposed to be all about.

Allez les rouges wrote:

(I've just remembered Müller's first yellow was for a high boot while performing an OVERHEAD kick against Serbia, even more of a joke, such an injustice)

It was a tackle from behind against Ghana.