Premier League Discussion 22/23 October 2011

Noah und der Bale wrote:Ferdinand is a lame horse that needs shooting.

Finally people are able to see the truth.

I confess I am rather goater with yesterday's (football) results myself, particularly the big one. I expect Goater will be in something of a stupor for several weeks to come; many congratulations to the him a rather wonderful gift to the world.

Stop being a United apologist Bernd

Allez les rouges wrote:I confess I am rather goater with yesterday's (football) results myself, particularly the big one. I expect Goater will be in something of a stupor for several weeks to come; many congratulations to the him a rather wonderful gift to the world.

Stop being a United apologist Bernd

Sorry Allez. I enjoyed seeing United get humped for a change but even Hansen, Lawrenson and co. are now jumping on the "City nailed on for the title" bandwagon as if they've learned absolutely nothing over the last 20 years.

It would actually serve City better not to get carried away with it anyway (in an England 5 Germany 1 kind of way...), Joe Hart was spot on with his analysis of it when he said it's still just 3 points, irrespective of who the opposition was.

All that said, Silva is an absolute gem of a player and a joy to watch. Now he, and City, have to show it in Europe

Noah und der Bale wrote: City took the lead completely against the run of play. Very shortly after Evans was sent off. City plated on the break against 10 men.

Mancini a genius? Nah. United had little choice but to play onto their hands. Of course they've got embarrassment of quality upfront, Mancini deserves credit if he's been the chief selector of transfers, which I question given the role of Viera at the club, but this was his perfect storm: play with 3 DMs on the counter with the additional bonus of an extra man and bingo.

Well done City, but not ready to hail Mancio as the next Arrigo Sachi

Mancio will never be the next Arrigo Sacchi, he is just not that kind of a tactician... but he is a bit under rated in this MB... While his tactical weakness was frequently exposed in Serie A, in the EPL it is hardly a relative disadvantage. And his strengths, specially about creating a strong group dynamic, a modern team with a winning mentality, that shines through everytime. In a decade as a manager, he has won trophies with all 4 clubs he has managed, in every type of situation - he has overachieved with a club of very limited means (Coppa wins with Viola & Lazio), managed high expectations & ego's to achieve glory at a disfunctional big club (3 scudetti, 2 coppa's with Inter). And he won a trophy within 18 months at City (FA Cup).

Mancio is a winner. And he is young from a manager standpoint, he will only get better. There is a good possibility that he will end up as one of the top managers of his time.

Sure, he hasn't reached the highest level yet... until he wins the CL or the World Cup, he cannot be considered as top level. But looking at his learning curve, and the kind of modern winning machines that he builds, I am quite sure he can get there...

COTR wrote:

bluenine wrote:

September Glelevenn wrote:how much credit does Mancini get for this? I wonder how many managers could have done worse with unlimited time and resources.

Hughes?

Hardly the same situation is it Bluey. Only about £300m of additional spending.

I wonder how much of it was "additional" spending as opposed to rebuilding or correcting mistakes...

Anyways, I would be a hypocrite to grudge City their money. Inter have been bankrolled by Moratti for ages, Milan by Berlusconi, Juventus by the Agnelli's... So if City have money, good for them.

I remember I had said on this forum when Mancio was appointed by City, that he is a winner, and will win the EPL within his first 3 full seasons. Most of you didn't believe it then. Believe it now, bitches

Did Mancini and City win the Premier League yesterday? I'm confused

Milner was very good (as he was vs Villa last week), key role in all the first 3 goals. Maybe finally settling there. A much better player than many here will give him credit for. Bad season last year, but see the goal vs Villa and the game yesterday - quality player, getting back to how he was for Villa the season before.

COTR wrote:

bluenine wrote:

September Glelevenn wrote:how much credit does Mancini get for this? I wonder how many managers could have done worse with unlimited time and resources.

Hughes?

Hardly the same situation is it Bluey. Only about £300m of additional spending.

No way has Mancini spent £300m. Plus if you look at Hughes signings in comparison to Mancini's there is only one winner.

Allez les rouges wrote:I confess I am rather goater with yesterday's (football) results myself, particularly the big one. I expect Goater will be in something of a stupor for several weeks to come; many congratulations to the him a rather wonderful gift to the world.

Stop being a United apologist Bernd

Cheers mate, its a day i will never forget. I feel very lucky to have witnessed it first hand and be able to say i was there. The result doesnt win us the title far from it but it was a massive statement to the football world and a big fuck you to our bitter rivals.

I just dont know how Richards doesnt get picked for England. Also Clichy looks a million times better than he did for Arsenal, for £7m he looks a bargin. Milner is on fire at the moment, he looks like he has settled in and credit to him. Baloteli i just fucking love the guy, i a total crazy bastard but a wonderful talent.

David Silva...WOW !

@Luis he cost us £24m mate, he looks a bargin now

@ Bluey

Did any of us really guess the lengths Abu Dhabi would go to achieve this success? The spending has even made Abramovich look like a relative pauper. Any praise for Mancini has to be mitigated by the sheer ridiculousness of the squad and resources at his disposal. Besides, he hasn't actually won anything important for City yet. Let's hold off on the praise until May.

Sgoater1 wrote:

Allez les rouges wrote:I confess I am rather goater with yesterday's (football) results myself, particularly the big one. I expect Goater will be in something of a stupor for several weeks to come; many congratulations to the him a rather wonderful gift to the world.

Stop being a United apologist Bernd

Cheers mate, its a day i will never forget. I feel very lucky to have witnessed it first hand and be able to say i was there. The result doesnt win us the title far from it but it was a massive statement to the football world and a big fuck you to our bitter rivals.

I just dont know how Richards doesnt get picked for England. Also Clichy looks a million times better than he did for Arsenal, for £7m he looks a bargin. Milner is on fire at the moment, he looks like he has settled in and credit to him. Baloteli i just fucking love the guy, i a total crazy bastard but a wonderful talent.

David Silva...WOW !

@Luis he cost us £24m mate, he looks a bargin now

Sgoater - what's happening with Tevez? Any news amongst the supporters?

Incredible that a player of his calibre (admittedly he's a penis) can't even make it onto the bench now.

'Arry's been spouting off about taking him on loan if available. As if we could afford it

Harry also said it would have to be a similiar deal to the Adebayor loan though,
with City paying a huge part of his wages. He's open to a loan deal, but it's probably not very likely. PL rules also would force us to sign Adebayor permanently before we could loan another City player.

Noah und der Bale wrote:

Sgoater1 wrote:

Allez les rouges wrote:I confess I am rather goater with yesterday's (football) results myself, particularly the big one. I expect Goater will be in something of a stupor for several weeks to come; many congratulations to the him a rather wonderful gift to the world.

Stop being a United apologist Bernd

Cheers mate, its a day i will never forget. I feel very lucky to have witnessed it first hand and be able to say i was there. The result doesnt win us the title far from it but it was a massive statement to the football world and a big fuck you to our bitter rivals.

I just dont know how Richards doesnt get picked for England. Also Clichy looks a million times better than he did for Arsenal, for £7m he looks a bargin. Milner is on fire at the moment, he looks like he has settled in and credit to him. Baloteli i just fucking love the guy, i a total crazy bastard but a wonderful talent.

David Silva...WOW !

@Luis he cost us £24m mate, he looks a bargin now

Sgoater - what's happening with Tevez? Any news amongst the supporters?

Incredible that a player of his calibre (admittedly he's a penis) can't even make it onto the bench now.

'Arry's been spouting off about taking him on loan if available. As if we could afford it

Well London is closer to Argentina so it might happen Seriously though im not sure, i cant see him playing again for us but stranger things have happend. He will go in jan but i doubt we'd want to loan him to a prem rival. His wages arnt £240k we was signed on about £160k from what ive heard and they've never been changed from what we've said. Youd (or whoever gets him) pay a loan signing fee which would in affect cover us for paying whatever percentage f his wage we would pay so in a affect we dont lose out. Ths way your wage structure isnt compromised but we dont lose out on the cash. If i had to take a guess id say he will go to Spain or Italy (unless Boca can come up with the cash which looks unlikly)but i cant see him staying past January.

It is incredible to have a player of that quality not in the side but 33 goals in 9 games suggest we are doing ok without him, but i would expect us to add another striker in jan to replace him. I wouldnt expect it to be a big name £30m player, maybe an older expericanced player on loan wh wouldnt complain about being on the bench but abe to do job when called upon.

bluenine wrote:

September Glelevenn wrote:how much credit does Mancini get for this? I wonder how many managers could have done worse with unlimited time and resources.

Hughes?

And on that subject ....

http://www.fulhamfc.com/Club/News/NewsArticles/2011/October/FFCStatement.aspx

COTR wrote:@ Bluey

Did any of us really guess the lengths Abu Dhabi would go to achieve this success? The spending has even made Abramovich look like a relative pauper. Any praise for Mancini has to be mitigated by the sheer ridiculousness of the squad and resources at his disposal. Besides, he hasn't actually won anything important for City yet. Let's hold off on the praise until May.

Out of interest, what would he have to do to impress you?

fcb wrote:

christmasborocooper wrote:

fcb wrote:

Fade out wrote:Mancio haters -> Up yours

Really? I'll admit I was among those who considered him totally incompetent and far too negative, so he's made some progress there. Still has shortcomings though, mainly in Europe.

But after spending all this money and being given more than 2 seasons (a luxury that few managers at sugar-daddy-clubs get), it's about time that they reach the top of the table. What he's doing is nothing more than par for the course.

Similar to Pep.

Yes, but Pep gets the same evaluation (from me as well as neutrals) that I'm giving Mancini: "good, but with an asterisk because he has great players...perhaps it's the players who make this team and not Pep".

I'm just trying to say the same for Mancini - he can get some credit, but considering the amount of money and time he's got, it's hardly like he's a genius.

No he doesn't and stop pretending he has. Mancini has rarely gotten credit and remember that Mancini is actually trying to build a winning team out of a team that doesn't have that tradition and he pushed the team from 9th place to 5th and then 3th plus winning the FA Cup. I still think Pep is better than him and I have been very sceptical of Mancini ever being the right man for City but he is putting me to shame now. He has sensibly built a defensively solid team and now added a great offensive to that team. His big so far has been that he has managed to maintain a balance of when to go back to the "ultra defensive" style and when to play more offensively and changing selection accordingly. I'm not saying he is a genius but he is starting to move into the top tier of managers imo.

bluenine wrote:

COTR wrote:

bluenine wrote:

September Glelevenn wrote:how much credit does Mancini get for this? I wonder how many managers could have done worse with unlimited time and resources.

Hughes?

Hardly the same situation is it Bluey. Only about £300m of additional spending.

I wonder how much of it was "additional" spending as opposed to rebuilding or correcting mistakes...

Anyways, I would be a hypocrite to grudge City their money. Inter have been bankrolled by Moratti for ages, Milan by Berlusconi, Juventus by the Agnelli's... So if City have money, good for them.

I remember I had said on this forum when Mancio was appointed by City, that he is a winner, and will win the EPL within his first 3 full seasons. Most of you didn't believe it then. Believe it now, bitches

You were right and I'm finally starting to believe Mancini is the man to take this team to top. We are still yet to see if he can do it Europe but this season is about England. But City already has the defensive structure in place to play in Europe so I don't think it will take a long time for Mancini to convert their good play from England into Europe.

debaser wrote:Milner was very good (as he was vs Villa last week), key role in all the first 3 goals. Maybe finally settling there. A much better player than many here will give him credit for. Bad season last year, but see the goal vs Villa and the game yesterday - quality player, getting back to how he was for Villa the season before.

Just like with Mancini I used to get on his back but recently he has been looking more than just a useful runner but like Mancini he isn't getting any credit. I also like his attitude. I heard from our commentators during the game that he thought that not playing in FA Cup final was the biggest let down in his career but you didn't hear a pip from him and he just went on with it.

Mancini

Milner

Cesc Soler wrote:

bluenine wrote:

September Glelevenn wrote:how much credit does Mancini get for this? I wonder how many managers could have done worse with unlimited time and resources.

Hughes?

And on that subject ....

http://www.fulhamfc.com/Club/News/NewsArticles/2011/October/FFCStatement.aspx

"Fulham is a progressive club with a top manager in Martin Jol, the man we had really wanted when Hughes was appointed."

Ouch.

"If people are looking for a flop, they only have to no further than the man who has lost his spark."

Spark! I see what he's done there

Super Stalin wrote:[

Milner

Some foolish people out there slate him for no apparent reason.

Noah und der Bale wrote:Did Mancini and City win the Premier League yesterday? I'm confused

They haven't played us yet. Maybe it will be a super duper sunday battle of the invincibles!!!

Interesting stat from F365:

Hodgson: managed 31, won 13, lost nine.
Dalglish: managed 32, won 15, lost nine.

Why is that interesting Kas?

COTR wrote:Why is that interesting Kas?

Uh, spacker!

COTR wrote:Why is that interesting Kas?

Any non smiley face, wavey Lol stick or picture response would be appreciated

Thanks

how many of Hodgeson's victories were against Europa League nomarks?

people were making similar comparisons with Hughes and Mancini this time last year, and Mancini has just won the Premier League.

I'd be happy with that

COTR wrote:Why is that interesting Kas?

Why is it not interesting? For starters, it was quite surprising (the Dalglish part, not the Hodgson part). And it also has the potential to stir debate on a variety of different points. Hence, interesting.

It is interesting that in 2010 under Hodgson we were 18th after 9 games with 9 points, playing poorly and with little optimism. It is interesting that in 2011 under Daglish we are 6th after 9 games with 15 points, playing better more expansive football and with optimism abundant.

Interesting

fcb wrote:

COTR wrote:Why is that interesting Kas?

Why is it not interesting? For starters, it was quite surprising (the Dalglish part, not the Hodgson part). And it also has the potential to stir debate on a variety of different points. Hence, interesting.

We've already been through this a thousand times last year Kas. Did you think that by posting misleading stats that it would reopen a debate that died it's painful death long ago?

But would Liverpool be higher on the table if they had Krul on goal?