blutgraetsche wrote:Isco is a great talent and fine player, but he is no Mesut Özil. If Ancelotti / Real really believed him to be the ideal replacement, they're foolish to say at the very least.
I wrote in the summer when the Bale transfer was nothing more than media chatter that Madrid finally had the players to form a formidable team. Isco would have benefitted massively from playing together with Özil, as would have Özil, for once, by sharing the creative burden or at the very least having a team mate on a similar wavelength, a proper footballer with great skill and instinct.
Isco is a fine attacking midfielder with a strong goal scoring instinct. When it comes to German players, the closest we have to him is Marco Reus. Neither Isco, nor Reus are playmakers. They have a different focus, their movement is different and their instincts are different. It doesn't mean that they can't be creative and provide assists, of course they can. But they don't have that '360° awareness' of Özil, or Iniesta for that matter. Özil in particular is simply amazing at reading the game, moving into space and doing the right thing at the right time. He's a 100% team player whose main focus is to keep things going, to make things happening together with his team mates, not primarily by himself - he is one of those few players who improve the team as a whole. You could say that Isco is more of an individualist, while Özil is more of a team player. They are different.
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La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
Romford Pele- Number of posts : 18652
Age : 34
Supports : Arsenal (Team Progress)
Favourite Player : Ozil
Registration date : 2006-10-05
- Post n°361
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
Jaime- Number of posts : 32027
Age : 46
Supports : Real Madrid CF
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Registration date : 2006-08-08
- Post n°362
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
Jaime- Number of posts : 32027
Age : 46
Supports : Real Madrid CF
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Registration date : 2006-08-08
- Post n°363
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
1 Barcelona 24
2 Atlético 24
3 Real Madrid 19
4 Villarreal 17
5 Getafe 13
6 Athletic 13
7 Valencia 13
8 Espanyol 11
9 Levante 10
10 Málaga 9
11 Sevilla 9
12 Elche 9
13 Betis 8
14 Granada 8
15 Real Sociedad 7
16 Celta 6
17 Valladolid 6
18 Osasuna 6
19 Rayo 6
20 Almería 3
2 Atlético 24
3 Real Madrid 19
4 Villarreal 17
5 Getafe 13
6 Athletic 13
7 Valencia 13
8 Espanyol 11
9 Levante 10
10 Málaga 9
11 Sevilla 9
12 Elche 9
13 Betis 8
14 Granada 8
15 Real Sociedad 7
16 Celta 6
17 Valladolid 6
18 Osasuna 6
19 Rayo 6
20 Almería 3
messiah- Number of posts : 3084
Registration date : 2011-11-03
- Post n°364
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
lucky bastards
Jaime- Number of posts : 32027
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- Post n°365
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
I know, Valencia really have no business being that high in the table.messiah wrote:lucky bastards
Jaime- Number of posts : 32027
Age : 46
Supports : Real Madrid CF
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Registration date : 2006-08-08
- Post n°366
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
Mes que un club!!!!!!
Cristiano- Number of posts : 2557
Age : 41
Supports : Real Madrid
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Registration date : 2007-01-09
- Post n°367
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
Jaime wrote:Mes que un club!!!!!!
p.s seems to be a lot of silence from the haters who would be out in force if Pathetico and Farca had won and RM had lost or drew. Its like there was no fixtures going on at all
I await their return when normal service is resumed.
blutgraetsche- Number of posts : 23328
Supports : Deutsche Fußballnationalmannschaft
Registration date : 2006-08-09
- Post n°368
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
I'll reserve judgement on Tata before Barca haven't played some strong opposition yet instead of La Liga cannon fodder. This week is going to be interesting in many ways, as Barca have to play both Milan and especially later Madrid. We'll see then what to expect from the new gaffer, if Neymar has really made the "Messidependencia" a thing of the past and so on. Actually, the clasico is going to be a moment of truth for both clubs and their new managers.
messiah- Number of posts : 3084
Registration date : 2011-11-03
- Post n°369
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
"Messidependencia" will never be a thing of the past, because he is Lionel Messi.
Neymar needs to be a bit more clinical in front of goal, he could have has one or two goals yesterday with better finishing and positioning, in both regards the team was very poor yesterday, now after Madrid has been so shit this season they will be six points behind us after the clasico and not 8.
sooo looking forward to seeing neymar against Arbeloa, its going to be epic stuff, carvajal even more so.
also this neymar dives thing really affected him yesterday, he should have gotten a PK and didn't and to be fair he hasn't dived much if at all in most of the games I have seen him play for us, he is just a bit weak and two too damn good for most defenders who always take him down and he is no messi that will keep on running after the first or second hit, doesn't mean its a dive though.
Neymar needs to be a bit more clinical in front of goal, he could have has one or two goals yesterday with better finishing and positioning, in both regards the team was very poor yesterday, now after Madrid has been so shit this season they will be six points behind us after the clasico and not 8.
sooo looking forward to seeing neymar against Arbeloa, its going to be epic stuff, carvajal even more so.
also this neymar dives thing really affected him yesterday, he should have gotten a PK and didn't and to be fair he hasn't dived much if at all in most of the games I have seen him play for us, he is just a bit weak and two too damn good for most defenders who always take him down and he is no messi that will keep on running after the first or second hit, doesn't mean its a dive though.
Jaime- Number of posts : 32027
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- Post n°370
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
Valencia and Sevilla are soooooooooo shit.
messiah- Number of posts : 3084
Registration date : 2011-11-03
- Post n°371
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
blutgraetsche- Number of posts : 23328
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Registration date : 2006-08-09
- Post n°372
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/laliga/id/915?cc=5739Taking clasico finances into account
Posted by Dermot Corrigan
Saturday's clasico between Barcelona and Real Madrid at the Camp Nou is not just the meeting of Spain's biggest teams. Depending on who you believe it is either the coming together of the two richest sporting institutions in the world, or a game between two clubs in which mounting financial issues are being willfully ignored.
Madrid president Florentino Perez often commends his own economic stewardship of the Estadio Santiago Bernabeu club, and again spoke of how he had (twice) saved it from a financial abyss when he addressed the club's annual Asamblea in late September.
"It is now nine consecutive years of revenue growth, and our figures are the highest in the global sports industry," a beaming Perez said. "There is no club, not in football or any other sport, which can reach this figure. Even Forbes magazine has laid down before us."
Whatever about Forbes, the socios who attended were impressed -- approving the club's official accounts for the 2012-13 financial year by an extraordinary margin -- with 808 votes for, none against and four abstentions. The club's accounts showed Madrid's declared debts had fallen from 127 million euros to 90.6 million euros over the previous 12 months, while club revenues were up to a record 520.9 million euros, with a net profit of 36.9 million euros -- an increase of more than 50 percent on the previous year.
Two weeks after Madrid's AGM, Barca held its Asamblea at the Camp Nou. Blaugrana president Sandro Rosell was also happy with himself as he predicted record revenues of 509 million euros for the 2013-14 season.
The former Nike executive sounded not unlike a Eurozone politician as he spoke at this year's AGM of the need to balance "austerity" with investment in infrastructure and all-round "sustainable policies" at the Catalan club.
"We have cleaned up the club over the last three years with a policy of transparency, austerity and growth," Rosell said. "[Reducing] the debt is the real key to the battle for our economic management and what makes us different."
Different from his profligate predecessor (and now arch-enemy) Joan Laporta, Rosell meant. And figures circulated that day claimed that the Catalan club's debt had fallen from 430 million euros to 331 million euros in the three years since Rosell replaced Laporta. Significant investments in youth teams (73 million euros) and improvements to facilities (35 million euros) made over that time were also trumpeted. The club also pushed through a change to their statutes at the event -- which mandates that executives who do not quickly correct a deficit in the club's annual accounts must step down.
While that statute change and Barca's budget were also approved by landslide majorities more commonly seen in a developing world dictatorship, fans' groups and journalists around both clubs have since subjected the official figures and claims by Perez and Rosell to closer scrutiny.
Carlos Mendoza, president of Madrid fan group Asociacion por los Valores del Madridismo, who was hushed by Perez when he tried to offer a critical perspective at the AGM, was given a platform to speak in AS.
"We have studied the accounts and found things which are not explained by the president," Mendoza said. "Florentino only recognises the 'net' financial debt, which is only the debt owed to the banks, some 90 million euros. But Madrid has more debts than just banks -- to players, clubs, sporting associations, public administration, suppliers. That all adds up to 541 million euros, more than double the debt Florentino inherited from Lorenzo Sanz."
Mendoza also pointed out that the latest club figures did not include the hundreds of millions involved in signing Gareth Bale and extending Cristiano Ronaldo's contract, and suggested that Mesut Ozil's sale -- which was so unpopular with Madrid fans and players -- had been required to balance these out.
Madrid fans might have wanted to dismiss Mendoza as a crank. But it was more difficult to ignore Jose Maria Gay de Liebana, widely regarded as Spanish football's foremost financial expert, who was also interviewed by AS.
Perez, who is also the head of Spain's biggest construction company, often says that some debt (around 90 million euros) is not unusual for a huge multinational business like a top football club. But Gay de Liebana argued that the club's accounts showed it was well behind examples of good financial management like Arsenal or Borussia Dortmund.
"Madrid's debt is, effectively, 541 million euros," said the Universidad de Barcelona professor. "It is a very high debt and there is a problem. Madrid has homework to do."
Just as both Rosell and Perez blame predecessors as president for their debts, they also have pretty similar policies for helping their clubs to deal with their financial problems. Perez bought another galactico this summer in Bale -- and said he was "cheap" at 91 million euros due to the commercial revenues he would help bring in. Rosell, previously head of Nike's marketing activities in South America, had long made signing Neymar a priority this summer for similar reasons.
While most Madrid fans quite like signing big-money superstars, the Barca board's move into international marketing has been more controversial. A socis (club members) protest group called "Go Barca" tried to officially censure Rosell and three fellow directors last month, citing grievances including the 65 million-euro Neymar transfer and the club's commercial dealings with Qatar. Rosell headed off that threat, but many in Catalonia wonder how such practices fit with the club's famous "mes que un club" slogan.
New construction plans also feature heavily on the agenda of both Perez and Rosell. Despite, or perhaps because of, their club's debts, both men want to increase the capacity and/or commercial potential of the Bernabeu and the Camp Nou.
Disgruntled fan Mendoza claimed that Perez planned to use "three or four years" of future season ticket sales as part security for a loan to finance the planned 400 million-euro redevelopment of the Bernabeu, while Perez himself has floated the idea of the stadium gaining a "surname" -- which sounds quite like the beginning of a softening-up process towards selling naming rights to a sponsor. A redevelopment of the Camp Nou is also an aim of Rosell's -- and would require a significant injection of funds from somewhere, with the Qatar Foundation and/or government quite likely investors.
Such plans are likely to be very unpopular with fans –- even the apparently docile ones who vote at asambleas. But further borrowing by either Barca or Madrid could even mean that members (socios in Madrid, socis in Barcelona) lose control of "their" club, and no longer get the chance to rubber-stamp executive decisions each year.
Given the need to manage their huge debts, whatever the actual figure, both Madrid and Barca are especially vulnerable to a drop-off in revenues. Spain's current economic "crisis" has hit matchday revenues at both clubs -- leading perhaps to both Rosell's much-lamented decision to start charging under-sevens, and Madrid's pricing of most tickets at 100 euros and over for the recent derbi against Atletico. An even bigger danger would be if the Spanish government goes through with plans to change La Liga's current television revenue sharing agreement -- and cut the total amount the big two currently receive.
Should Madrid's debt increase still further, Gay de Liebana warned that the club might need to be "saved" by a wealthy external buyer.
"The fact is that Madrid is so far in debt, and has a big project for the stadium, so it could end up having to convert itself into a limited company, or 'Sociedad Anonima,' so that capital can be injected in," he said. "Then you would either need a socio with the ability to bring that capital, or the support of a benefactor."
Perez often claims he is the only Spanish president who can ensure the club's "values" are protected from a Russian or Arab investor. Rosell appears happy for the club's apparent support for Catalan nationalism to cover their ever-closer links with Qatar. But questions are mounting over where both presidents are really taking "their" clubs.
Jaime- Number of posts : 32027
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- Post n°373
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
The debt of Real Madrid or Barcelona varies wildly depending on who you interview. One Laporta's ex-vicepresidents came out the other day saying that Rosell had Barcelona on the verge of financial collapse.
Anyhow, never believe a guy called Gay.
Anyhow, never believe a guy called Gay.
messiah- Number of posts : 3084
Registration date : 2011-11-03
- Post n°374
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
thats a load of crap about madrid, no one includes wages as apart off debts, that alone throws everything out the door
Super Progress- Number of posts : 15429
Age : 35
Supports : Real Madrid + Mierda inchada en un palo
Favourite Player : Laudrup,Cassano,Totti, Zidane,Marcelo, Pepe!,Guti, PROGRESS
Registration date : 2006-08-07
- Post n°375
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
As long as the government doesn't come after us, except if to shower us with money, then I don't really care.
Puro- Number of posts : 10679
Registration date : 2006-09-12
- Post n°376
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
Bale had to play since Asia was watching the game with interest and Florentino has to sell those Bale t-shirts.
Ancelotti fired back by not playing Isco when told he had to accommodate Bale. What a disgrace!
History's repeating again, Ronaldinho-Beckham then and now Neymar-Bale. Only one winner.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLE!!! OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLEEEEEEEEE!!!
Ancelotti fired back by not playing Isco when told he had to accommodate Bale. What a disgrace!
History's repeating again, Ronaldinho-Beckham then and now Neymar-Bale. Only one winner.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLE!!! OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLEEEEEEEEE!!!
Fey- Number of posts : 35349
Supports : Feyenoord and Manchester United
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- Post n°377
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
Madrid v Sevilla anyone? it's amazing!
6-3 so far and Sevilla gets a joke of a Soldado...and they miss! And Mbia gets a red card.
6-3 so far and Sevilla gets a joke of a Soldado...and they miss! And Mbia gets a red card.
Fey- Number of posts : 35349
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Registration date : 2006-08-07
- Post n°378
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
7-3...
How shite are Sevilla if even Bale AND Benzema can score twice against them.
Madrid can finally get their decima...if they want tonight.
How shite are Sevilla if even Bale AND Benzema can score twice against them.
Madrid can finally get their decima...if they want tonight.
Jaime- Number of posts : 32027
Age : 46
Supports : Real Madrid CF
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- Post n°379
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
I tell you what - SOMEONE wants Barcelona to win this league. Two penalties called against Madrid in the Bernabeu!!!!!
Isco Benny- Number of posts : 19647
Age : 44
Supports : Spurs, FOLLOWS (just for worms): Werder Bremen, Lazio, Ferencvaros, Valencia, El Classico, Angleterre, Magyarorszag
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Registration date : 2006-08-08
- Post n°380
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
Oh the burn! Bale scores two and plays an integral part in a 7-3 destruction in his HOME DEBUT.Puro wrote:Bale had to play since Asia was watching the game with interest and Florentino has to sell those Bale t-shirts.
Ancelotti fired back by not playing Isco when told he had to accommodate Bale. What a disgrace!
History's repeating again, Ronaldinho-Beckham then and now Neymar-Bale. Only one winner.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLE!!! OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLEEEEEEEEE!!!
What a failure hey???
Jaime- Number of posts : 32027
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- Post n°381
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
Sevilla are shit to be fair.Fey wrote:7-3...
How shite are Sevilla if even Bale AND Benzema can score twice against them.
Madrid can finally get their decima...if they want tonight.
Jaime- Number of posts : 32027
Age : 46
Supports : Real Madrid CF
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Registration date : 2006-08-08
- Post n°382
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
FT Espanyol 0 - 0 Malaga
FT Celta Vigo 0 - 3 Barcelona
FT Valencia 1 - 2 Almeria
FT Valladolid 2 - 2 Real Sociedad
FT Osasuna 3 - 1 Rayo Vallecano
FT Real Madrid 7 - 3 Sevilla
15:00 Granada ? - ? Atletico Madrid
15:00 Villarreal ? - ? Getafe
17:00 Athletic Bilbao ? - ? Elche
17:00 Real Betis ? - ? Levante
FT Celta Vigo 0 - 3 Barcelona
FT Valencia 1 - 2 Almeria
FT Valladolid 2 - 2 Real Sociedad
FT Osasuna 3 - 1 Rayo Vallecano
FT Real Madrid 7 - 3 Sevilla
15:00 Granada ? - ? Atletico Madrid
15:00 Villarreal ? - ? Getafe
17:00 Athletic Bilbao ? - ? Elche
17:00 Real Betis ? - ? Levante
Fey- Number of posts : 35349
Supports : Feyenoord and Manchester United
Favourite Player : ??#$ Error, John Guidetti, Jordy Clasie
Registration date : 2006-08-07
- Post n°383
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
Madrid are Fussballpornografie! 0-3 up and two penalties against them in in one minute...1-3 and now 2-3...
Cristiano- Number of posts : 2557
Age : 41
Supports : Real Madrid
Favourite Player : Zidane, Sergio Ramos, Casillas, Ozil, David Silva, Guti, Hierro, Valeron, Pirlo,
Registration date : 2007-01-09
- Post n°384
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
It's the new curse of the 3-0 scoreline. It's mandatory to press the red self destruct button after.
Isco Benny- Number of posts : 19647
Age : 44
Supports : Spurs, FOLLOWS (just for worms): Werder Bremen, Lazio, Ferencvaros, Valencia, El Classico, Angleterre, Magyarorszag
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Registration date : 2006-08-08
- Post n°385
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
Who assisted for Madrid you c**t?Fey wrote:Madrid are Fussballpornografie! 0-3 up and two penalties against them in in one minute...1-3 and now 2-3...
3 goals 4 assists for flop Bale to date
Cristiano- Number of posts : 2557
Age : 41
Supports : Real Madrid
Favourite Player : Zidane, Sergio Ramos, Casillas, Ozil, David Silva, Guti, Hierro, Valeron, Pirlo,
Registration date : 2007-01-09
- Post n°386
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
The haters will conveniently look over that and appear again when he has a bad game. (If he has a average to bad game against Juve expect them to come out in force)Isco Benny wrote:Who assisted for Madrid you c**t?Fey wrote:Madrid are Fussballpornografie! 0-3 up and two penalties against them in in one minute...1-3 and now 2-3...
3 goals 4 assists for flop Bale to date
Fey- Number of posts : 35349
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Registration date : 2006-08-07
- Post n°387
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
I haven't seen any of the goals Madrid scored, tuned in when it was already 0-3.Isco Benny wrote:Who assisted for Madrid you c**t?Fey wrote:Madrid are Fussballpornografie! 0-3 up and two penalties against them in in one minute...1-3 and now 2-3...
3 goals 4 assists for flop Bale to date
But I reckon you were wearing this shirt again.
Twonk!
Jaime- Number of posts : 32027
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- Post n°388
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
Copa del Rey draw is out. Real Madrid and Barcelona are on opposite sides of the draw. There could be a Madrid derby in the semifinal.
The Pröfessör- Number of posts : 10076
Age : 74
Registration date : 2006-08-07
- Post n°389
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
Atletico are putting in another non-progressive performance away to Villareal by consistently keeping 10 men behind the ball
The Pröfessör- Number of posts : 10076
Age : 74
Registration date : 2006-08-07
- Post n°390
Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread
Villareal equalise, deserved.
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