2014 World Cup - 1/8 Finals

mongrel hawk wrote:

Super Progress wrote:Sure in terms of pure numbers then yes latinos matter but in terms of cultural significance they aren't worth anything. Nobody much cares about latino culture in America. Hipsters matter and blacks matter. Soccer moms could care less. They care about sending their children to a safe sport without too much competition. The good thing is that I'm seeing the likes of Lebron James tweeting about football so perhaps it can get the cool stamp of approval.

Super, I think you're being a bit biased here towards the WASP point of view when you say America don't care about Latino culture. The Latinos care and that's enough. They are 50 million in USA. If 50 million Wasps were football fans would that be more significant? Would that be more American? I don't think so. Wasps are not more American than Latinos in USA. They have no king and no blood right bullshit.  

Of course WASP are more American. They are America or at least the core of America and always have been even if that is slowly changing.

But that is not my point. I get what you're saying that in pure numbers it is big America. I'm making the point that no matter what latinos do it doesn't tend to have much/any effect on the culture. Latino(or Asian for matter) tastes are simply not that important in America compared to those of WASP's or blacks.

Super Progress wrote:

mongrel hawk wrote:

Super Progress wrote:Sure in terms of pure numbers then yes latinos matter but in terms of cultural significance they aren't worth anything. Nobody much cares about latino culture in America. Hipsters matter and blacks matter. Soccer moms could care less. They care about sending their children to a safe sport without too much competition. The good thing is that I'm seeing the likes of Lebron James tweeting about football so perhaps it can get the cool stamp of approval.

Super, I think you're being a bit biased here towards the WASP point of view when you say America don't care about Latino culture. The Latinos care and that's enough. They are 50 million in USA. If 50 million Wasps were football fans would that be more significant? Would that be more American? I don't think so. Wasps are not more American than Latinos in USA. They have no king and no blood right bullshit.  

Of course WASP are more American. They are America or at least the core of America and always have been even if that is slowly changing.

But that is not my point. I get what you're saying that in pure numbers it is big America. I'm making the point that no matter what latinos do it doesn't tend to have much/any effect on the culture. Latino(or Asian for matter) tastes are simply not that important in America compared to those of WASP's or blacks.

But they are not important for whom? They are important for 50 million Latinos. And of course the wasps are not more american.

USA-Belgium, a game that was played mid-afternoon in the USA, had more TV watchers than the baseball final, which was played in the best possible time there.

Latino's have little influence on mainstream culture. In terms of numbers that is a lot of people but in terms of shaping the way mainstream culture looks at soccer it won't change much.

And of course the wasps are not more american.

This is simply wrong to the core. WASP's built America and have always been the center of the country and culture. The lack of Latino impact(despite their large numbers) on the culture proves my point.

Super Progress wrote:Latino's have little influence on mainstream culture. In terms of numbers that is a lot of people but in terms of shaping the way mainstream culture looks at soccer it won't change much.

And of course the wasps are not more american.

This is simply wrong to the core. WASP's built America and have always been the center of the country and culture. The lack of Latino impact(despite their large numbers) on the culture proves my point.

The lack of Latino impact on whose culture? There are many "cultures" in USA.

Wasp in USA and white Europe are in clear decline. Wasp is not that mainstream anymore, and Europe is not a white continent anymore.

Impact on the mainstream culture. And yes WASP's are in decline but they are still the core of American nation and will continue to be for quite a while. If you want to know what I mean with mainstream culture simply compare the impact of black culture on mainstream culture compared Latino's. It is not even close.

Super Progress wrote:Impact on the mainstream culture. And yes WASP's are in decline but they are still the core of American nation and will continue to be for quite a while. If you want to know what I mean with mainstream culture simply compare the impact of black culture on mainstream culture compared Latino's. It is not even close.

Fair enough, Super. But if a USA game beat a baseball final and a NBA final on TV, then maybe it's becoming mainstream.

Super Progress wrote:Latino's have little influence on mainstream culture. In terms of numbers that is a lot of people but in terms of shaping the way mainstream culture looks at soccer it won't change much.

And of course the wasps are not more american.

This is simply wrong to the core. WASP's built America and have always been the center of the country and culture. The lack of Latino impact(despite their large numbers) on the culture proves my point.

NO IMPACT ON CULTURE?!?!?!?!?!?

mongrel hawk wrote:

Super Progress wrote:Impact on the mainstream culture. And yes WASP's are in decline but they are still the core of American nation and will continue to be for quite a while. If you want to know what I mean with mainstream culture simply compare the impact of black culture on mainstream culture compared Latino's. It is not even close.

Fair enough, Super. But if a USA game beat a baseball final and a NBA final on TV, then maybe it's becoming mainstream.

Hopefully but the problem as I see it is that there seems to be a ceiling in the near to midterm. The amount of sports in America that already takes up time from the normal sportfans. The fact that this reaction in America is down to national sentiment which will likely fade after the WC. A realistic view would be that it would be closer to Australia which was in a similar place to America in 2006 but by the Australian national team has become big even if football at a club level still isn't so popular. That is fine enough for me because I like seeing the American national team. Also we have to think through the consequences of America taking an interest in football. They have the structure and money to bid players away from Europe which would decrease the quality considerably in Europe. Not that you care Mongrel.   

If was in charge of football I would try to change the marketing so it appeals to blacks. You have to hope one of the main sports suffers so football can get an opening. Kind of how boxing deteriorated and MMA could take over similar fan segments. I hear from Hockey fans that there are similarities there so perhaps those fans would appreciate football more. Also I think there is too little talent in American football for their distributionist system to work. Not enough of wealth of talent to spread around. They would be much better off if they could have a couple of teams who get the best veterans from Europe to create good teams that could hash it out and capture the imagination of fans. Plus applying the European capitalistic system fits in better in America anyway and would give them a leg up on the other sports.

Jaime
I loved the George Lopez show. I wish Latinos could have a bigger impact but they just don't and nor do they seem to be that bothered about it.

Super Progress wrote:

mongrel hawk wrote:

Super Progress wrote:Impact on the mainstream culture. And yes WASP's are in decline but they are still the core of American nation and will continue to be for quite a while. If you want to know what I mean with mainstream culture simply compare the impact of black culture on mainstream culture compared Latino's. It is not even close.

Fair enough, Super. But if a USA game beat a baseball final and a NBA final on TV, then maybe it's becoming mainstream.

Hopefully but the problem as I see it is that there seems to be a ceiling in the near to midterm. The amount of sports in America that already takes up time from the normal sportfans. The fact that this reaction in America is down to national sentiment which will likely fade after the WC. A realistic view would be that it would be closer to Australia which was in a similar place to America in 2006 but by the Australian national team has become big even if football at a club level still isn't so popular. That is fine enough for me because I like seeing the American national team. Also we have to think through the consequences of America taking an interest in football. They have the structure and money to bid players away from Europe which would decrease the quality considerably in Europe. Not that you care Mongrel.   

I don't even watch Euro football regularly. I watch about 5/6 games per season, I guess. Now, with this brand new stadia, if Brazilian clubs begin to do things right, our economy is big enough to begin to bring back our best players or at least to make it harder for Euro clubs to take them away from us. Until the 80s, Brazilian/Argentine/Uruguayan stars all played here, and our clubs were very strong and among the best in the world. Brazilian league won 3 WCs alone: all Brazilian players of 58/62/70 played for Brazilian clubs, which means our league was probably the best in the world at the time. After the 1982 WC Euro clubs began to sign players like Sócrates, Zico, Falcão, Cerezo, Maradona, Careca, Franciescoli, etc., and our leagues began to decline and became second class leagues. I woner if we'll ever have a strong league again.

@Super

The interesting thing is that football is actually becoming quite popular with black American celebrities whether is LeBron James becoming part owner of Liverpool and tweeting about James Rodriguez or Kobe Bryant becoming besties with Leo Messi or Jay-Z rocking an Arsenal shirt at a gig. Obviously it is small now but maybe in 10 years you will start to see the impact.

Jaime wrote:@Super

The interesting thing is that football is actually becoming quite popular with black American celebrities whether is LeBron James becoming part owner of Liverpool and tweeting about James Rodriguez or Kobe Bryant becoming besties with Leo Messi or Jay-Z rocking an Arsenal shirt at a gig. Obviously it is small now but maybe in 10 years you will start to see the impact.

Kobe Bryant is often in Brazil watching football matches. He's a Brazilian football fan.

Mongrel
I'm not nearly as optimistic as others are on behalf of the Brazilian economy but there will be further progress so some amount of convergence will happen in football but the economic gap between Europe and Brazil is too big, and will remain so, for Brazil to retain talents. But I think we will see that the age at which players leave will be higher and that the transfer fee's will be bigger. At that point Brazil can begin to compete for the talents from other South American countries as well. So things will improve but you're not getting the pro-globalization Brazilian football back

Jaime
Yeah a friend of mine who keeps arguing about the coming football fever in America points out how it is getting shout outs by black celebs. I get Kobe Bryant because he was raised in Italy and almost decided to go profesionally into football instead of basket. But Lebron James tweeting about it is very promising. They have the ability to make it seem cool.

Football doesn't need to become mainstream to be big here in the states, all that's needs to happen is for the latino's to adapt MLS teams like they do the teams from Europe and back home.

Hockey isn't really mainstream, it has a specific subset of people who are big fans and that's all it needs to be, considered relevant.

whether Hispanic's will adapt the local MLS teams in their region, is another story, because the football is truly horrible at times, only hipsters white Americans go to MLS games and watch it on TV if you add Hispanics to that, then the MLS would easily have higher viewing figures than the NHL and the NBA.

Blacks aren't needed for the sport to become truly relevant, blacks are needed for the american national team to become good.

The cool factor that black celebrities bring, will have the best young athletics giving football a serious look at as possible money making, live changing avenue to go down. which is the main reason black american's get into sport.

the moment they see a urban black kid make it huge in football and all the glamour that comes with it, others will start locking to the sport and then and only then will america come close to win a WC.

Then it will become Mainstream, but the hispanic population here combined with hipster whites is big enough to make it as relevant as hockey, which is the level, most well thinking american football fans think it will reach. beyond that is pushing it, america simlpe has too many sports.

messiah wrote:Football doesn't need to become mainstream to be big here in the states, all that's needs to happen is for the latino's to adapt MLS teams like they do the teams from Europe and back home.

Hockey isn't really mainstream, it has a specific subset of people who are big fans and that's all it needs to be, considered relevant.

whether Hispanic's will adapt the local MLS teams in their region, is another story, because the football is truly horrible at times, only hipsters white Americans go to MLS games and watch it on TV if you add Hispanics to that, then the MLS would easily have higher viewing figures than the NHL and the NBA.

Blacks aren't needed for the sport to become truly relevant, blacks are needed for the american national team to become good.

The cool factor that black celebrities bring, will have the best young athletics giving football a serious look at as possible money making, live changing avenue to go down. which is the main reason black american's get into sport.

the moment they see a urban black kid make it huge in football and all the glamour that comes with it, others will start locking to the sport and then and only then will america come close to win a WC.

Then it will become Mainstream, but the hispanic population here combined with hipster whites is big enough to make it as relevant as hockey, which is the level, most well thinking american football fans think it will reach. beyond that is pushing it, america simlpe has too many sports.

How come?

Football is about technique and brains, the USA's team already has enough runners.

Because black players will develop their skills in the streets, and not in football school like the white guys.

You make it sound like district 9. I'm sure America has a ton of white kids in urban area's, and black kids in school, well some atleast.

So basically you want Freddy Adu?

Fey wrote:So basically you want Freddy Adu?

Apparently he is on trial in Norway these days. Still only 25 (well probably 40 since african birth certificates area always a little dodgy).

This seems like a long time ago:

Kimbo its a generalization, that should have been obvious ain't it.
Freddy edu. Was a 60 year old, developed in the streets of Africa. Lol

You need to play a bit of street football, in your infancy to develop as a proper football, then you go to the football academy.

With pay for play here in the states, kids are playing little league as soon as they can walk, its too organized.
It helps, but kids arent doing because they love it. They go home and play baseball and the likes are switch once they get older.

Black's or urban kids to be politically correct, cannot afford pay for play. So once they pick up the sort it will be because they truly like/love it. They be better skilled and so on and so forth. Too annoying to type on my phone

Hey Fey, consider this fact as a possession football evangelist and Belgium fanboy: the USA had 53% of possession in the 1/8 finals vs. Belgium, the USA that is, one of the worse sides in this regard!

Howard had the ball all the time..no wonder they had more possesion..

Im sensing a lot of hate towards Belgium from many people here..should have jumped the bandwagon, but many people said..naahhh too mainstream and overhypes.

Fey wrote:Howard had the ball all the time..no wonder they had more possesion..

Im sensing a lot of hate towards Belgium from many people here..should have jumped the bandwagon, but many people said..naahhh too mainstream and overhypes.

It is simply a reaction to the Dutch hype, led by you, that has pretty much failed so far. They have met relatively easy teams so far and looked very unimpressive. You made it out to be a dream team of sorts.

Once again it feels like Duthcies are selling us fake goods:



Although given that we are talking about Fey it is more like:

What hype? How did they failed? Looked more impressive against USA and Algeria then Germany and are in a QF for the first time since 1986. 

To me their succes is another victory for HSTWHW( He Spots Talent When He Wants)

Fey wrote:What hype? How did they failed? Looked more impressive against USA and Algeria then Germany and are in a QF for the first time since 1986. 

To me their succes is another victory for HSTWHW( He Spots Talent When He Wants)

      

Fey wrote:Howard had the ball all the time..no wonder they had more possesion..

Im sensing a lot of hate towards Belgium from many people here..should have jumped the bandwagon, but many people said..naahhh too mainstream and overhypes.

I don't hate the Belgian national team, just Belgian drivers on German roads, awful lot, worse than any Dutch caravan could be. Oh, and Liege is a bit of a shithole. Other than that, I'm fine with our confused neighbours (what is "Belgium" anyway? I don't think many can give a proper answer to that, if any) and can actually see them beating the one-man-show-Argies and reach the semis.

It was just an interesting little fact I found somewhere. Love those...

One thing about German roads, they dont collapse and kill people. Way to go Brazil, your crappy construction killed more people.

where is that that gay mulato English guy, the nutwing, who used to masturbate himself wildly at Cronaldo images till he took off blood from his cock? I liked him...   

mongrel hawk wrote:where is that that gay mulato English guy, the nutwing, who used to masturbate himself wildly at Cronaldo images till he took off blood from his cock? I liked him...    

Dick Grayson? WAsn't it just a fake account from fey or glenn?

Antarion wrote:

mongrel hawk wrote:where is that that gay mulato English guy, the nutwing, who used to masturbate himself wildly at Cronaldo images till he took off blood from his cock? I liked him...    

Dick Grayson? WAsn't it just a fake account from fey or glenn?

I don't know. Was it Fey's heteronym?

mongrel hawk wrote:

Antarion wrote:

mongrel hawk wrote:where is that that gay mulato English guy, the nutwing, who used to masturbate himself wildly at Cronaldo images till he took off blood from his cock? I liked him...    

Dick Grayson? WAsn't it just a fake account from fey or glenn?

I don't know. Was it Fey's heteronym?

You'll have to ask him. But he was kinda funny, I agree.