Premierships greatest foreign players...

Viduka scored about 3 contenders last season, none of them featured...no bias there im sure

saintgoingmarching wrote:

SLB e Millwall wrote:

saintgoingmarching wrote:
Keane isn't even foreign, so that's a daft choice to begin with.

Keane's not foriegn? Well, not if your Irish, but, surely he is if your refering to the UK, or more especially the English premiership.

That's somewhat like saying that a player who was born in Jersey, or on the Isle of Wight is foreign.
...

Why is an Englishman saying someone born in a foreign country is a foreigner, the same as an Englishman saying someone born on the Isle of Wight (part of England) is foriegn?
This is very confusing for us foreigners. You should stick to Latin, because your a bit of a donkey as far as geography goes.

borocooper wrote:Viduka scored about 3 contenders last season, none of them featured...no bias there im sure

I think there was one wher he jinked past 3 or 4 players in a tight space before nutmegging the keeper at the Riverside. He can still do it when he's bothered.

I rememv

Kimbo wrote:

TeamSpirit wrote:Solano has been quality - and he produces a goal of the season contender every year. Like the one with the outside of his foot last season - can't remember who it was against.

Against Everton, wasn't even a contender for goal of the season for some reason, it was a horrible list.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3E8U_svw0Q

Me and my mates spent the next day at our local astro-turf trying to replicate it.

yeah there was that one, there was one a the valley where he flicked it over someones head and volleyed it from about 25 yards into the corner...

I think he got one at Birmingham early in the season aswell.

SLB e Millwall wrote:

saintgoingmarching wrote:

SLB e Millwall wrote:

saintgoingmarching wrote:
Keane isn't even foreign, so that's a daft choice to begin with.

Keane's not foriegn? Well, not if your Irish, but, surely he is if your refering to the UK, or more especially the English premiership.

That's somewhat like saying that a player who was born in Jersey, or on the Isle of Wight is foreign.
...

Why is an Englishman saying someone born in a foreign country is a foreigner, the same as an Englishman saying someone born on the Isle of Wight (part of England) is foriegn?
This is very confusing for us foreigners. You should stick to Latin, because your a bit of a donkey as far as geography goes.

SLB e Millwall wrote:

saintgoingmarching wrote:

SLB e Millwall wrote:

saintgoingmarching wrote:
Keane isn't even foreign, so that's a daft choice to begin with.

Keane's not foriegn? Well, not if your Irish, but, surely he is if your refering to the UK, or more especially the English premiership.

That's somewhat like saying that a player who was born in Jersey, or on the Isle of Wight is foreign.
...

Why is an Englishman saying someone born in a foreign country is a foreigner, the same as an Englishman saying someone born on the Isle of Wight (part of England) is foriegn?
This is very confusing for us foreigners. You should stick to Latin, because your a bit of a donkey as far as geography goes.

nice

so does Kenny Dalglish count?

Well, seen as he never played in the premiership, I doubt it.

Kimbo wrote:

TeamSpirit wrote:Solano has been quality - and he produces a goal of the season contender every year. Like the one with the outside of his foot last season - can't remember who it was against.

Against Everton, wasn't even a contender for goal of the season for some reason, it was a horrible list.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3E8U_svw0Q

What a goal.

SLB e Millwall wrote:
Why is an Englishman saying someone born in a foreign country is a foreigner, the same as an Englishman saying someone born on the Isle of Wight (part of England) is foriegn?

Because of the Isle of Wight is about as independent from the rest of the UK as Ireland, in terms of language, culture and politics.

This is very confusing for us foreigners. You should stick to Latin, because your a bit of a donkey as far as geography goes.

i.e. you don't get it. No surprise that you impressed Lrd with such nonsense.

Sorry Saints but you are just wrong.

The U.S has pretty much the same culture, language and politics as England yet I would bet you would define it as a foreign country so I don't get where you are coming from with that sentence.

The Premiership is based in England, Keane is from Ireland which is an entirely separate country as defined by...well, everyone and everything.

You can talk as much as you like about the Isle of Wight but the simple fact is that it is a part of England, whereas Ireland is not. Your opinion on the differences doesn't matter.

Obispo wrote:Well, seen as he never played in the premiership, I doubt it.

I don't understand all this "PREMIERSHIP" stuff, and acting as if the league started 15 years ago. Is this entirely different from the English league, whatever its name was, before that? If we ask, what is the best foreign player in premiership history, what is the difference between Ardiles or Muhren and Cantona or Zola? It's just a different era, but the league is about the same, whether the name changed or not? Or am I missing something vital here?

toon h wrote: Or am I missing something vital here?

Well, in 1993-94, players did get their name & Numbers on their shirts to keep.

and in 1995-96 the league relegated 4 teams so it could be reduced to 20...

Subtle but significant changes

saintgoingmarching wrote:

SLB e Millwall wrote:
Why is an Englishman saying someone born in a foreign country is a foreigner, the same as an Englishman saying someone born on the Isle of Wight (part of England) is foriegn?

Because of the Isle of Wight is about as independent from the rest of the UK as Ireland, in terms of language, culture and politics.

This is very confusing for us foreigners. You should stick to Latin, because your a bit of a donkey as far as geography goes.

i.e. you don't get it. No surprise that you impressed Lrd with such nonsense.

Surely in terms of the English Premiership a case could be made for Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish to be "foreigners". Someone that comes from a foreign country must be foreign, and if you argue different you are surely wrong.
I beleive Lrd was probably more impressed by my little joke about you being a donkey, than the solidity of my argument.

I think most of the English enjoy beleiving that the Premiership is different now than when it was the first division, so that they can say that Liverpool has never won the Premiership. Thats why for a spell Obispo had the numbers 18/0/5. after his name. The first signified the number of times Liverpool won the first division, the second, how often they won the Premiership and the third, how often they won the champions cup.

I think it is especially the favourite argument of man u fans when arguing with liverpool fans about who is the most succesful. Also it coincided with man u's dominance, so they always like to ask who has been the best midfielder, striker, goalkeeper etc in the premiership, which excludes most of the top players that have played for other teams before 1993 or something. It is also used by chelsea and arsenal fans when arguing with liverpool fans.

It is a name change pretty much.

For the geography discussion I guess scotland and wales are bit of a grey area in terms of the Premiership because of the UK (but they are separate from England). Can't believe someone argued about Ireland which is quite clearly a separate country. Ask any Irish person and they'll tell you to feck off .

For comparison think Austria and Germany: neighbours and speak the same language, but are completely separate countries. Also try spending your english pounds in Ireland as opposed to scotland, wales or the channel islands and you'll also notice a significant difference

Allt his arsenal bashing

Its Henry by miles - hes been top scorer for about 4 seasons in a row now.

Its no longer an arguement about 'who raised the profile of the premiership the most?'

Bergkamp was a fantastic player but he gets a lot of credit for moments of brilliance rather than actual end product.

Tweedledum wrote:Allt his arsenal bashing

Its Henry by miles - hes been top scorer for about 4 seasons in a row now.

Its no longer an arguement about 'who raised the profile of the premiership the most?'

Bergkamp was a fantastic player but he gets a lot of credit for moments of brilliance rather than actual end product.

Bergkamp and cantona are similar in that their moments of brilliance get highlighted more than most. Bergkamp drops deep, controls a difficult pass and plays a through ball, Henry sees and understands whats happening and makes a run, latches onto the through ball, goes past another defender and fires it into the bottom corner. Commentator says "Typical finish from Henry, but what a through ball, what vision from bergkamp, is there a better player around?". Yes, it's henry!!

With Henry it seems to be quite expected that he will dribble past a couple of players on the left, step inside and curl the ball in the top corner, so he doesn't seem to get as much credit when he does it.

Forget about best foreign player he's been the best player the premiership ever had.

Thats last sentence is way off, your massively forgetting the contrubitions of players like Shearer, Bergkamp, Keane, Schmeichel, Giggs and Cantona.

All players who have for starters (apart from Cantona) played in the league for a much longer period and all have been massively influential in there sides.

Personal opinions at the end of the day.

I think its difficult to yet call Henry the greatest player ever of the EPL - merely because he is yet to finish his time - maybe in four years he will have deserved this title.

At present though I would say that Shearer holds this mantel - purely because of the longevity at which he has been at the top of his game

Yes it is opinion.

However when these lists crop up people seem to get very small memories and vote for whatever is 'new'.

Whilst Henry has been excellent for 5 seasons, Shearer was playing his trade for 13 and at the top of his game for around 10 of them. Same with Keane and Giggs.

Bergkamp and Cantona probably didn't play as long but they all made massive impressions on our game in the time they were here.

Bergkamp is the reason I started to watch the EPL, so for me it's quite simple

Parks Lives wrote:Yes it is opinion.

However when these lists crop up people seem to get very small memories and vote for whatever is 'new'.

Whilst Henry has been excellent for 5 seasons, Shearer was playing his trade for 13 and at the top of his game for around 10 of them. Same with Keane and Giggs.

Bergkamp and Cantona probably didn't play as long but they all made massive impressions on our game in the time they were here.

Unfortunately it is difficult to compare because of the different time periods when they played, and the quality of the premiership being weaker in the 90s. We should probably wait until the end of henry's career but in my opinion he is a better player in terms of pure indivudal talent than all the ones you mentioned. Their overall club achievements might look better though because they have finished their careers and played at successful clubs. Isn't that always what the man united fans say about shearer, that he could have been greater if he had played for them. He would probably have played the same but he would have won more and been better acknowledged for it just because he was part of a winning team. Same as keane for example, great reader of the game, great engine, great tackler, great at simple passes to scholes, beckham, giggs for them to create something for the strikers, very limited going forward both creatively and scoring himself. Why is he considered great, when someone like Ince for example isn't when they are practically the same player?

On your reasoning though, Shearer was better than Cantona, do you agree or do you think cantona was better?

You have an axe to grind as always.

Owen Thomas wrote:Sorry Saints but you are just wrong.

Hardly

The U.S has pretty much the same culture, language and politics as England yet I would bet you would define it as a foreign country so I don't get where you are coming from with that sentence.

The US has a vastly different culture (for example: much more religious, gun obsessed, militarily much more aggressive, economically less stable), a somewhat different language (ask anyone who has had to translate from American English into English English - I have, BTW - to find this out) and in terms of politics - we have a three party representative democracy, American has a one-party elected republic (i.e. essentially no different to fascism).

The Premiership is based in England, Keane is from Ireland which is an entirely separate country as defined by...well, everyone and everything.

Right, which is why there's been a 500 year struggle for independence...

You can talk as much as you like about the Isle of Wight but the simple fact is that it is a part of England, whereas Ireland is not. Your opinion on the differences doesn't matter.

That makes Scotland and Wales foreign countries too, by the definition you've offered. Yet I bet you don't consider Giggs or McFadden 'foreign'...

Do you see why there's an ambiguity and why simply asserting 'this is foreign, this isn't foreign' is a weak argument?

Tweedledum wrote:Allt his arsenal bashing

Its Henry by miles - hes been top scorer for about 4 seasons in a row now.

Its no longer an arguement about 'who raised the profile of the premiership the most?'

Bergkamp was a fantastic player but he gets a lot of credit for moments of brilliance rather than actual end product.

Whereas when Henry hits the bar from 20 yards we hear Jonathan Pearce ejaculate in a flurry of 'only Thierry Henry can do that'...


Same difference...

Yeh but Herny does it 25 times a season as opposed to Bergkamps ten times a season.

I'm also sure that Henry probably gets more assists than Bergkamp did

Parks Lives wrote:You have an axe to grind as always.

I have no axe to grind (and I never do). I have reasoned why I think Henry is the best. You pointed out the relatively short career of henry compared to shearer. So I asked whether you think Shearer or Cantona was the better player based on your own argument?

It is just a question.

But in the end the answer may just point out that you have the axe to grind against anyone praising henry. By the logic of your argument you should say shearer, but I have a feeling that you want to say cantona, so you haven't answered.

How about answering the question?