Premierships greatest foreign players...

Tweedledum wrote:Yeh but Herny does it 25 times a season as opposed to Bergkamps ten times a season.

I'm also sure that Henry probably gets more assists than Bergkamp did

And now we come back to statistics. I've already said what I've got to say about Thierry 'statistically the best' Henry, so I won't bore you again, except to point out that this isn't Record Breakers or the Athletics World Championships. Football isn't about numbers (unless you're a trained economist, like Wenger), it's about passion, beauty, entertainment and the like.

and winning

True, it's about that too.

110% wrote:

Parks Lives wrote:You have an axe to grind as always.

I have no axe to grind (and I never do). I have reasoned why I think Henry is the best. You pointed out the relatively short career of henry compared to shearer. So I asked whether you think Shearer or Cantona was the better player based on your own argument?

It is just a question.

But in the end the answer may just point out that you have the axe to grind against anyone praising henry. By the logic of your argument you should say shearer, but I have a feeling that you want to say cantona, so you haven't answered.

How about answering the question?

Thats where you have the axe to grind.


Same as keane for example, great reader of the game, great engine, great tackler, great at simple passes to scholes, beckham, giggs for them to create something for the strikers, very limited going forward both creatively and scoring himself. Why is he considered great, when someone like Ince for example isn't when they are practically the same player?


Being a great leader of a team that won 8 league titles and European cup should have no bearing at all?

Which is wear the stats come in

But Henry is a great entertainer as well - some of the goals he has scored have been incredible and also some of the skills - almost Berkampesque - ie the Mills trick, the backheel, even verses Charlton he was showing some incredible flair that most players could only dream of

I'm sticking with Dalglish.

toon h wrote:I'm sticking with Dalglish.

As the greatest player to play in the English league?

Dalgleish was better than any of the modern players but sadly that was before the EPL so does not count

toon h wrote:I'm sticking with Dalglish.

I'll agree with you.

toon h wrote:I'm sticking with Dalglish.

What, above Best, Charlton, Moore, Baxter, Finney, and the greatest of all Duncan Edwards.

Parks Lives wrote:

110% wrote:

Parks Lives wrote:You have an axe to grind as always.

I have no axe to grind (and I never do). I have reasoned why I think Henry is the best. You pointed out the relatively short career of henry compared to shearer. So I asked whether you think Shearer or Cantona was the better player based on your own argument?

It is just a question.

But in the end the answer may just point out that you have the axe to grind against anyone praising henry. By the logic of your argument you should say shearer, but I have a feeling that you want to say cantona, so you haven't answered.

How about answering the question?

Thats where you have the axe to grind.


Same as keane for example, great reader of the game, great engine, great tackler, great at simple passes to scholes, beckham, giggs for them to create something for the strikers, very limited going forward both creatively and scoring himself. Why is he considered great, when someone like Ince for example isn't when they are practically the same player?


Being a great leader of a team that won 8 league titles and European cup should have no bearing at all?

It is purely you looking for an axe to grind. Well done on extracting a paragraph and ignoring what was before it. The sentence before I mentioned shearer at manu would have got better acknowledgement playing at a winning team. I only mentioned keane because you did and as good a midfielder as he was, as a player he was about the same as Ince, so I asked why he is considered a great and Ince isn't? It is a simple question, not a dig at anyone.

I assume from your random ranting you're saying that Keane was an inspirational leader so he should be considered the best player of the premiership era? So not based on his skill or footballing ability?

SLB e Millwall wrote:

toon h wrote:I'm sticking with Dalglish.

What, above Best, Charlton, Moore, Baxter, Finney, and the greatest of all Duncan Edwards.

Yes - for just club Dalgleish is better, with the exception of Finney and maybe Best although retiring at 28 didn't help Best's cause.

Fiiney is a difficult one because back then the quality of footballers was clearly inferior

Tweedledum wrote:Which is wear the stats come in

But Henry is a great entertainer as well - some of the goals he has scored have been incredible and also some of the skills - almost Berkampesque - ie the Mills trick, the backheel, even verses Charlton he was showing some incredible flair that most players could only dream of

I find it amusing that you cited two fouls by Henry, ignored by the referee due to his reputation, as evidence of his skill and greatness. Keep it coming, it just gives the Henry bashers more ammunition...

110% wrote:

I assume from your random ranting you're saying that Keane was an inspirational leader so he should be considered the best player of the premiership era?

Yes.

Being the inspirational leader of the best team of its era should count for something.

I can't be bothered to argue with you about Shearer because I'm not one of those 'all manu fans' who moans that we didn't sign him.

Tweedledum wrote:

SLB e Millwall wrote:

toon h wrote:I'm sticking with Dalglish.

What, above Best, Charlton, Moore, Baxter, Finney, and the greatest of all Duncan Edwards.

Yes - for just club Dalgleish is better, with the exception of Finney and maybe Best although retiring at 28 didn't help Best's cause.

Fiiney is a difficult one because back then the quality of footballers was clearly inferior

Dalglish was comparable to Denis Law for both Club and Country.

As well as both being behind Bobby Charlton and George Best.

Should someone make this a poll?
all the arguments and bias opinions i cant work out who is the leading person with the people here.

Parks Lives wrote:

110% wrote:

I assume from your random ranting you're saying that Keane was an inspirational leader so he should be considered the best player of the premiership era?

Yes.

Being the inspirational leader of the best team of its era should count for something.

I can't be bothered to argue with you about Shearer because I'm not one of those 'all manu fans' who moans that we didn't sign him.

It should count for something but that does not make him the best player which is what we were talking about. Same as John Terry great leader and very good defender, but the best player in the premiership he is not.

You are the one who brought up shearer as an argument as to why henry is not the best player in the premiership which is my opinion. You still never answered the question based on your argument of longevity, who's better: shearer or cantona?

At least it is very clear that it is you who has an axe to grind with henry.

If we want to go with year in, year out consistency & production - then Fine Henry wins it hands down.

But, as 110% is dissmissing, I do believe in the trailblazing theory - I have the utmost respect that brought our league out of the doldrums, helped us be competitive in European competition again and so forth.

The signing of Bergkamp represented a change of tradition at Arsenal.

Likewise Cantona at Man Utd, Zola & Chelsea & we were watching players who were on another planet for natural talent.
-----------------------------------------------------------
@ Parky

Why I rate Kilinnsmann ahead of Kanchelskis, Overmars & Petit is simple; he damn near got a team that should have been outside the top 10 into 7th place by himself... Sheringham was the only other good weapon we had. Anderton was always injured and the defence was $hit. Plus, thanks to those 2, we got to an FA Cup Semi...

Kanchelskis & Overmars v- whilst great wingers, were never the no.1 players at their clubs - and as such, I believe they were under relatively less pressure to deliver the goods.

l r d wrote:Should someone make this a poll?
all the arguments and bias opinions i cant work out who is the leading person with the people here.

Leader is henry I think with the non-biased fans, but with some arsenal fans picking bergkamp, and man u fans picking cantona (keane, giggs and schmichel also mentioned).

If you do it all time then maybe it's between dalglish and charlton/best so it's going to turn out to be another manu versus liverpool thread

I would have thought it was actually Bergkamp with and without bias fans.

borocooper wrote:I would have thought it was actually Bergkamp with and without bias fans.

If your doing best foreign which I thought this thread was about Bergkamp is my choice.

How on earth can Henry even be a candidate hes still playing for christs sake ! how can you make a judgement on a players career in the EPL untill its finished thats absolutely ludricus, so for me Henry is exempt from selection. One day maybe we can look back and call him the greatest ever import but not at the moment while hes still got many years to give us reasons as to why he is.

As for the Man Utd fans i think they have every right to be pushing either Keane,Cantona or Schmeichel, they were the driving force of a team that DOMINATED the EPL for a decade ! how abserd it would be that you cannot consider that the best players played for the best team at the time ?

The backheel was never a foul! It was shoulder to shoulder.

Just to sum up, it should be betweeen:

Shearer
Bergkamp
Cantona
Keane
Giggs
Scholes
Henry
Vieira
Zola
Gerrard
Sheringham

?????

Anyone else?

Think in reality its one of Henry, Berkamp, Cantona and Keane

Anyon

a few them are English Tweeeds

borocooper wrote:I would have thought it was actually Bergkamp with and without bias fans.

I consider the henry-haters as biased

For some reason the sours and man u fans don't hate bergkamp as much as henry, maybe he didn't score against their teams etc. I would consider the fact that they hate Henry so much more as an argument for him being the best player playing for the opposition.

Also the dutch posters all chose bergkamp so a little bit of bias there

Tweedledum wrote:The backheel was never a foul! It was shoulder to shoulder.

Just to sum up, it should be betweeen:

Shearer
Bergkamp
Cantona
Keane
Giggs
Scholes
Henry
Vieira
Zola
Gerrard
Sheringham

?????

Anyone else?

Think in reality its one of Henry, Berkamp, Cantona and Keane

Anyon

what the hell?

Football Genius wrote:

As for the Man Utd fans i think they have every right to be pushing either Keane,Cantona or Schmeichel, they were the driving force of a team that DOMINATED the EPL for a decade ! how abserd it would be that you cannot consider that the best players played for the best team at the time ?

Didn't want to say it myself, but well done to you.

110% wrote:

borocooper wrote:I would have thought it was actually Bergkamp with and without bias fans.

I consider the henry-haters as biased

For some reason the sours and man u fans don't hate bergkamp as much as henry, maybe he didn't score against their teams etc. I would consider the fact that they hate Henry so much more as an argument for him being the best player playing for the opposition.

Also the dutch posters all chose bergkamp so a little bit of bias there

It never crossed your mind that some of us see Bergkamp as a better player than Henry.

Sorry, had a cking moment there.

Ignore me

110% wrote:

borocooper wrote:I would have thought it was actually Bergkamp with and without bias fans.

I consider the henry-haters as biased

For some reason the sours and man u fans don't hate bergkamp as much as henry, maybe he didn't score against their teams etc. I would consider the fact that they hate Henry so much more as an argument for him being the best player playing for the opposition.

Also the dutch posters all chose bergkamp so a little bit of bias there

I think its just purely the fact Bergkamp was the man..he came over and changed things and was probably a more naturally gifted player than Henry.