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    Barcelona v Chelsea (The European Classic) (Oct 18 & 31)

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    L r d
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    Post by L r d Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:04 am

    Agooner wrote:
    Rosy wrote:
    l r d wrote:
    Agooner wrote:
    l r d wrote:chelsea should let bremen win for revenge, barca could be in big trouble if bremen beat chelsea

    do u think chelsea prefer finishing second to barca going out of the competition? don't think so.

    lose by just 1 goal and crush letski and they are first?

    Never a good idea to try to lose 1-0

    ok

    What if chelsea misfire against levski? there are no guarantees in football mate

    The point is with etoo back barca are prob favourites, surely it is worth the 0.01% risk to get them out while you can. Chelsea losing to levski is not going to happen
    Rosy
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    Post by Rosy Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:05 am

    Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:
    Rosy wrote:
    Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:Rijkaard said something along the lines that he "was disappointed with the referee, because he didn't let the added time run out and that it had been a clear benefit for the team that had caused it in the first place with the many fouls"

    He also said that he didn't have a problem with Mourinho's celebrations since he obviousely would be very happy.

    He also said that the game had been very equal, that it had been a good game, and that Chelsea was a very solid/physical team.

    Finally he said that our players left Chelsea too much space to counterattack in and that the players should be better at commiting tactical fouls, despite the fact that it isn't the team's style..

    Tactical fouls like the body check that got Edmilson booked? I think he is being disingenuous there. Of course he leaves his team open to counter attack if he commits so many forward. You can't blame the full back for getting beaten when he keeps getting left 2 on 1.

    I was just translating.. But the team has suffered from a naive approach to the game, forgetting to track back, leaving too many open spaces, and, Deco being the only one willing to pull a shirt to stop an attack early on... It is not in the spirit of the game, but if you want to win it is something that has to be done at times, especially from the attacking players thereby avoiding the opponents to run directly at Márquez and Puyol.

    I know I was commenting on Rijkaard's comments. Tactical fouls often get yellow cards so it's a dangerous games. Problem is if you commit too many players to attack and the other side breaks you commit a foul and get a booking or you leave the full back to cover two or three players.
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    Post by Oleguerisntthatbad Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:06 am

    saintgoingmarching wrote:A few points from my view of the game -


    e) What the fuck happened with Ashley Cole? I can see no reason for Lampard to be the one booked for the first event.
    .

    I didn't get that one either.. I honestly think that the booking was meant for Ahley Cole, and that he suddenly realised that he would have send him off and then decided to scrap the first booking.. (sending him off would have been insane, but it was obvious that everybody thought that was what was going to happen..

    That ref should be retired immediately..
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    Post by Saintsar Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:07 am

    Graham Poll's reputation must be turning in its grave.
    COTR
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    Post by COTR Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:08 am

    Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:
    saintgoingmarching wrote:A few points from my view of the game -


    e) What the fuck happened with Ashley Cole? I can see no reason for Lampard to be the one booked for the first event.
    .

    I didn't get that one either.. I honestly think that the booking was meant for Ahley Cole, and that he suddenly realised that he would have send him off and then decided to scrap the first booking.. (sending him off would have been insane, but it was obvious that everybody thought that was what was going to happen..

    That ref should be retired immediately..
    but cole didnt do a thing to get the first booking... not a thing so this argument cannot be true.. the first booking was always for lampard...
    Rosy
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    Post by Rosy Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:08 am

    Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:
    Rosy wrote:
    Agooner wrote:
    l r d wrote:chelsea should let bremen win for revenge, barca could be in big trouble if bremen beat chelsea

    do u think chelsea prefer finishing second to barca going out of the competition? don't think so.

    Definitely not. Chelsea want a nice friendy match Vs Barca in the final! Nice Scottish referee so that we can sort out Mr Deco.

    We will sign George Foreman and Tyson on free for that match.. especially for you Wink

    They're past it. They'd pass out if they broke into a jog.
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    Post by Oleguerisntthatbad Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:09 am

    Rosy wrote:
    Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:
    Rosy wrote:
    Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:Rijkaard said something along the lines that he "was disappointed with the referee, because he didn't let the added time run out and that it had been a clear benefit for the team that had caused it in the first place with the many fouls"

    He also said that he didn't have a problem with Mourinho's celebrations since he obviousely would be very happy.

    He also said that the game had been very equal, that it had been a good game, and that Chelsea was a very solid/physical team.

    Finally he said that our players left Chelsea too much space to counterattack in and that the players should be better at commiting tactical fouls, despite the fact that it isn't the team's style..

    Tactical fouls like the body check that got Edmilson booked? I think he is being disingenuous there. Of course he leaves his team open to counter attack if he commits so many forward. You can't blame the full back for getting beaten when he keeps getting left 2 on 1.

    I was just translating.. But the team has suffered from a naive approach to the game, forgetting to track back, leaving too many open spaces, and, Deco being the only one willing to pull a shirt to stop an attack early on... It is not in the spirit of the game, but if you want to win it is something that has to be done at times, especially from the attacking players thereby avoiding the opponents to run directly at Márquez and Puyol.

    I know I was commenting on Rijkaard's comments. Tactical fouls often get yellow cards so it's a dangerous games. Problem is if you commit too many players to attack and the other side breaks you commit a foul and get a booking or you leave the full back to cover two or three players.

    I think he was still smarting from that final attack.. basically any Barcelona player should just have stopped him, taken the card, and then moved into the box to defend against the freekick..
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    Post by Saintsar Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:09 am

    No one mentioned Lampard's name before the second Cole yellow. I didn't see Lampard do anything, and he didn't seem aware that he'd been booked in the first place.


    Lampard had a rare good game tonight. I was actually impressed by a half dozen things that he did.
    Rosy
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    Post by Rosy Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:11 am

    COTR wrote:
    Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:
    saintgoingmarching wrote:A few points from my view of the game -


    e) What the fuck happened with Ashley Cole? I can see no reason for Lampard to be the one booked for the first event.
    .

    I didn't get that one either.. I honestly think that the booking was meant for Ahley Cole, and that he suddenly realised that he would have send him off and then decided to scrap the first booking.. (sending him off would have been insane, but it was obvious that everybody thought that was what was going to happen..

    That ref should be retired immediately..
    but cole didnt do a thing to get the first booking... not a thing so this argument cannot be true.. the first booking was always for lampard...

    The ref was clearly speaking and giving the card to Lampard it was just Spanish TV who got it wrong. There is no issue here at all.
    Rosy
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    Post by Rosy Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:14 am

    saintgoingmarching wrote:No one mentioned Lampard's name before the second Cole yellow. I didn't see Lampard do anything, and he didn't seem aware that he'd been booked in the first place.


    Lampard had a rare good game tonight. I was actually impressed by a half dozen things that he did.

    Did you not see the replay where the referee was clearly speaking to Lampard? On first viewing it was just Spanish TV who said Cole was booked, a simple error on their part. No reason for anyone to say anything else about it until the issue of the second yellow came up.
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    Post by Oleguerisntthatbad Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:15 am

    But why did all the players then freak out when Cole was booked?

    You could see all the Chelsea players defending Cole and all the Barcelona players wanting the red card??

    Even Mourinho came running out...

    And why would he even have booked Lampard in the first instance?
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    Post by Saintsar Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:17 am

    Everyone in that stadium thought that Cole was getting sent off. No fudging with this 'Spanish TV said this, X and Y said that' covers up the fact that they all thought he was walking.
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    Post by COTR Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:17 am

    Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:But why did all the players then freak out when Cole was booked?

    You could see all the Chelsea players defending Cole and all the Barcelona players wanting the red card??

    Even Mourinho came running out...

    And why would he even have booked Lampard in the first instance?
    Why would he have booked cole though.. he didnt do a thing..

    the replay clearly shows the card going to lampard with cole standing behind him... it's easy to see but i guess people just got confused...


    P.S just saw lampards goal again... im sorry but similar to ronaldinho's (england) im maintaining it's a fluke
    COTR
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    Post by COTR Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:20 am

    clear reply of lampard's dive just there now on the highlights rosy
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    Post by Hardrada Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:37 am

    COTR wrote:clear reply of lampard's dive just there now on the highlights rosy

    He went down way too easily...but you can see a Barsa hand on his shoulder so there was illegal contact. Its hard to tell how much without looking from the other side.

    I wouldn't have give it.

    But the Makelele one looks clear...although on 1 replay it looked sort of on the very edge of the box. I'd like to see it again. It was certainly a free kick though at the very least.
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    Post by COTR Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:38 am

    marquez got him just outside the box I think... maybe on the line... incredible how the ref gave nothing though...
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    Post by blutgraetsche Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:43 am

    Must have been one hell of a match, haven't even seen the highlights yet. The result helps us, looks like Barca and us are going to fight for the second place. This group is the group of death everyone expected.

    P.S.:

    blutgraetsche wrote:Gudjohnsen to score in the rematch against Chelsea, his ex-club. I can really see it coming.

    (25.10.2006)

    http://europeanboard.ephpbb.com/viewtopic.forum?p=126689&highlight=#126689

    Wink
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    Post by waft the Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:45 am

    shag the refs mother Grr

    smelly rat kill the bastard
    burn him
    stab him

    Grr

    fair play chelsea but both teams are bastards for diving and whingng

    also kill the refs mother fucker Grr
    Rosy
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    Post by Rosy Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:03 am

    saintgoingmarching wrote:Everyone in that stadium thought that Cole was getting sent off. No fudging with this 'Spanish TV said this, X and Y said that' covers up the fact that they all thought he was walking.

    Watch the replay. No fudge just watch it.
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    Post by Rosy Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:04 am

    MightyBarca wrote:shag the refs mother Grr

    smelly rat kill the bastard
    burn him
    stab him

    Grr

    fair play chelsea but both teams are bastards for diving and whingng

    also kill the refs mother fucker Grr

    I take it you are not enamoured of the referee lol!
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    Post by fcb Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:03 am

    My ratings and random thoughts from the game:

    1. As everyone has already said, both teams dived and simulated and whinged, and the ref was clearly shit. IMO once again it's down to the expectations of English teams against those of Spanish teams. The former probably are the most physical in Europe, the latter, the least. It's hard for a ref to get it right, and this ref got it horribly wrong. I can't imagine what would happen if an English club had to play in any South American league week in week out. All you'd ever see from posters on this board would be "he's a cheat, he's a cheat, that club is a cheat, cheat cheat cheat".

    2. I didn't think the match was as bad as some people are saying it was. Some of the football was quite good. We played really well, I think this was among the best performances by us this season, no joke. The movement, passing, defending, everything was very good. It's just that Chelsea are an excellent side this year. The organisation in midfield that they have is tremendous. Top 3 among the CL favourites for sure. And I'm not including ourselves in that top 3 yet.

    3. A. Cole was good going forward but only seems like he had a good game because he wasn't tested defensively. Messi went inside a lot more tonight. But I agree that when Cole and Lampard went on attacks Zambrotta found it hard to deal with both.

    4. IMO Lampard's goal was a fluke, it's just the way he hit it and his reaction that doesn't convince me that he intended it. Of course we'll never know for sure though unless he admits it himself.

    5. Terry was good overall, but where was he for Guddy's goal? On his ass.

    6. I posted on another thread about Mourinho's post-match comments. Pirlo from this board said in advance that the ref is card-happy, so I'm quite annoyed that he blames our players for provoking more cards than normal. The real reason for this is the poor ref and the point I raised in 1. above.

    7. Rijkaard made a mistake defending the 2-1. We paid for it just like the 4-2 at S. Bridge 2 seasons ago. Defending leads is not what Barcelona does, and unfortunately I think the pressure got to him. As for the Giuly-Guddy sub (instead of Saviola-Guddy), at the time I also thought it was a mistake. But looking back he probably knew what he was doing - Saviola is tiny and would have found it impossible to cope with Chelsea's midfield and defence, and Messi was cutting inside a lot so it made sense to play Giuly out wide and try to distract Cole from going forward. It didn't really work though.

    8. Rijkaard never overreacts and never talks about the ref. The fact that he did so tonight says a lot about how poor the ref was. Of course losing the 2 points at the end is hard to take, and tomorrow you'll see much more calmness and sense out of him. In any case, it's a lot better than Mourinho who moans and moans forever, and brings things up at press conferences a year after the previous game too. I'm glad Gudjohnsen celebrated freely. In fact, he should have run past the Chelsea bench and given Mourinho a proper stare.
    And anyone who suggests Rijkaard's job is (or should be) under pressure (even if we go out at this stage), go get a mental health check.

    9. @Freddie or Not: Camp Nou usually never has a good atmosphere. It's a quiet crowd. The whistling and singing you heard tonight is the best it gets.

    10. @Rai: We didn't get Zlatan because he's overrated and overpriced and not even 0.00005% as consistent or reliable as Etoo. At least Guddy is 50-60% reliable now and will be more once he adapts. The perfect example for me was late-ish in the game, Ronaldinho squared the ball and Gudjohnsen was just a split second late in reaching to it. Once everyone else adapts to his slightly slower pace compared to Etoo, he'll be much better. As for van Nistelrooy, he's old, slow, and scores only from < 6 yards 95% of the time. We need a more dynamic player up front.

    11. @Obispo: you're a good poster mate...if you have some problem with Messiah then please sort it out personally with him or address your posts to him when he's around. Continually posting the same wind-ups is extremely annoying for everyone else.

    12. If the game tonight means we get "bad PR" and "lose fans" as some people have suggested, then good. The "fans" we lose will be glory hunters anyway, and we could do without some that have jumped on the bandwagon. We already earned the money from them when they bought our shirts this past summer Smile

    Right, ratings:
    Valdes - 7.5. Very good performance, saved everything he could.
    Zambrotta - 6. Not spectacular, but not bad either. I don't understand people blasting him - what more do you want from a fullback? It's hard to play that position in our system, more so for an Italian player, since they historically never settle well. He's improved in the basics since the start of the season. A few more games and he'll have the nuances as well, and the attacking part will come naturally. He's already better than Belletti defensively, and better than Oleguer attacking-wise.
    Puyol - 7. Good day at the office, crucial interceptions as always.
    Marquez - 7. Some dodgy incidents but was quite good otherwise
    Gio - 6. Decent game, not much danger from his side anyway and did well supporting Ronaldinho in attack.
    Edmilson - 7. Very good when he came on, and a clever tactical foul on Carvalho.
    Motta - 6. Did his job as a DM but conceded many fouls as he always does. Kicked out at Drogba but Drogba got him back, both could have had a yellow each for their actions.
    Xavi - 6. Decent game, should have scored though. 2-0 would have been a different game.
    Deco - 7. Finding his best form again - good passing and movement and a great goal
    Ronaldinho - 7. Same as Deco, give him a few more games and he'll be firing like old times.
    Gudjohnsen - 6. Invisible for most of the game, but the goal bumps up his score. Unfortunate to get injured. Hopefully he's back soon.
    Messi - 8. MOTM for us, constant danger to Chelsea. I just wish he stayed out wide a bit more often in this match.


    And all in all, 2-2 was a fair result. It feels really bad, but I'm sure I and other Barca fans wouldn't be as disappointed if the Chelsea equaliser had come in the 75th minute or something.
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    Post by TheCrazy58 Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:36 am

    Good post as usual Kasnani. Although I didn't see all of the match I was not disheartened by what I saw of our performance and I agree that we are definitely heading back towards our best. The luck went Chelsea's way last night but as you say I am not too worried about prospects for our match vs Levski and Bremen.

    And yes, the ref was a muppet.

    Rijkaard does seem a bit jittery still and I think he could have brought on
    Iniesta a bit earlier than he did (he did well when he came on but there's limits to what you can do in 10 minutes). Do you agree with the view that he misses Ten Cate?
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    Post by S4P Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:55 am

    Much has been made about Eto'os absence and rightly so, he is their number 1 striker and a massive player for the team.

    But what about the fact that Chelsea has had to play these 2 games without Petr Cech (or Cudicini for that matter - whose only just returned). Imo, Cech would've saved Barca's first goal last night, and would've done better with the 2nd (even if he didn't save it)
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    Post by S4P Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:59 am

    saintgoingmarching wrote:
    b) Marquez should have been sent off, but not for the shove. That's a booking, really, since he gave the same for Messi. Drogba hitting the deck is no measure of the force of the shove, we all know that. Marquez should have gone for the trample on Essien.

    Good post, but the shove by Marquez on Drogba (where he's raised his hands) is no worse than the incident which Del Horno was sent off for last season

    saintgoingmarching wrote:
    e) What the fuck happened with Ashley Cole? I can see no reason for Lampard to be the one booked for the first event.

    It was Lampard who made a comment to the linesman, not Ash.

    I'm glad you mentioned about Drogba by the way. I remember saying all evening "Drogba has been staying on his feet for a very long time now", and then he goes and puts on the worst acting performance of his career Rolling Eyes

    I do think that sometimes he was fouled, but most of the time, he was just looking to cause mayhem it seems
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    Post by S4P Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:03 am

    By the way, it's nice that some consider Lampard's goal a fluke Rolling Eyes

    If Ronaldinho had done that, people would be calling it a world class goal.

    You can see clearly from Lampard's eyes and body shape what he was going to do and give him some credit for a) having the balls to do it and b) the execution.
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    Post by Rosy Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:27 am

    TheCrazy58 wrote:Good post as usual Kasnani. Although I didn't see all of the match I was not disheartened by what I saw of our performance and I agree that we are definitely heading back towards our best. The luck went Chelsea's way last night but as you say I am not too worried about prospects for our match vs Levski and Bremen.

    And yes, the ref was a muppet.

    Rijkaard does seem a bit jittery still and I think he could have brought on
    Iniesta a bit earlier than he did (he did well when he came on but there's limits to what you can do in 10 minutes). Do you agree with the view that he misses Ten Cate?

    How can you sat the luck went Chelsea's way when you didn't see the match? What a ridiculous comment. Chelsea had more goal attempts than Barca (some of them gold plated just like Ronnie's) and had a very good shout for a penalty turned down. The ref gave a lot of fouls against Chelsea for blatant dives. Drogba didn't cover himself in glory in that department but in one of the incidents he was left with a bloody mouth so there must have been more to it than a dive. Deco went down writhing in pain and then jumped up to run at John Terry when Terry kicked the ball at him. Ill advised by Terry but it showed Deco up for what he is.
    Rosy
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    Post by Rosy Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:29 am

    S4P wrote:By the way, it's nice that some consider Lampard's goal a fluke Rolling Eyes

    If Ronaldinho had done that, people would be calling it a world class goal.

    You can see clearly from Lampard's eyes and body shape what he was going to do and give him some credit for a) having the balls to do it and b) the execution.

    I guess all Barcelona fans and the Lampard detractors will call it a fluke. Chelsea fans and the Lampard worshippers will say it's just what you expect from him Wink
    COTR
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    Post by COTR Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:36 am

    kasani in no way was terry at fault for the goal... ronaldinho's ball was undefendable..


    @ SP4... about the lampard goal... he never for one second looks at the goal... his vision was solely on knocking the ball back in the box... i honestly think it was a fluke...

    and as for the ronaldinho point... his free kick still gets called a fluke against england so that makes that point slightly redundant Wink
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    Post by Tweesus Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:55 am

    Essien was my MOTM by a long LONG way.

    The guy was absolutely immense and is really beginning to show is class for Chelsea this season and justifying the fee.
    COTR
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    Post by COTR Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:57 am

    Tweedledum wrote:Essien was my MOTM by a long LONG way.

    The guy was absolutely immense and is really beginning to show is class for Chelsea this season and justifying the fee.
    I thought he was relativly subdued last night.. messi was barcelona's MOTM.. Id be inclined to say A.cole or makalele for chelsea

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