Carrick and Hargreaves or Kuyt and Bellamy

Glenn Hysen wrote:it's much easier to judge a striker's contribution imo - if Kuty/Bellamy rack up 30+ goals between them they will be deemed a success, you can say that without having to watch them. Hargreaves/Carrick will be more performance/influence based, neither are the type of player who will grab a game by the balls and shake it about, but they could still prove effective.

I voted Kuyt/Bellamy. More out of hope than judgement.

Agree with that. Kuyt and Bellamy will be judged more on goals, Hargreaves and Carrick more on performance.

Could work against Kuyt and Bellamy if that is the case if they are rotated alot, although I'd guess they will start the more important games.

Kuyt alone is already better than both England players together so with a Bellamy it is SIGNIFICANT the second option is the better option!

COTR wrote:

Sir Parks Lives wrote:Gerrard handed in a transfer request FFS, of course now he's going to say he never wanted to leave.

did you even read the comments? his reasons are pretty clear cut and had nothing to do with 'his heart being set on leaving'

So he handed in a transfer request because he got bored one morning?

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

He wanted OUT...end of!

Tweedledum wrote:Gerrard, Cole and Ronaldo are all clearly brainless though.

Henry DECIDED he wanted to stay - I don't see how this can be misinterpreted - its not like he handed in a transfer request and we denied him it...

Hargreaves is an intelligent man - if he wants to leave he'll go about it intelligently

I think he would have stayed even if barca had lost that final...there seemed to be a few arguments on the pitch, and Henry looked really pissed off with some of the barca players. I think he realised that he was enjoying life at in england, he had lots of friends, and he didn't like the attitudes of the barca players. I don't think the outcome of the match dictated whether he was going to leave or stay at all.

seeing as carrick + hargreaves will cost about 30 + mil

and Kuyt and Bellamy costs about 16 million.

I'd say the latter 2, Bellamy will be the best bargain of the summer for 6 million.

He did indeed want out. Whether it was money based or not we can't be sure - Yes he stayed because he got a significant wage increase, but I can't help but feel he would have got more again if he went to Chelsea.

He definitely wanted out though. What changed his mind we'll never know. Glad he did, even if he was a prick about the whole saga.

my take on gerrard is that he didn´t really want to leave but was v concerned over liverpool´s ability to challenge for the big prizes hence he felt chavski offred better prospects for winning silverware, so i doubt it took a huge amount to change his mind

luisgarciahedrinkssangria wrote:seeing as carrick + hargreaves will cost about 30 + mil

and Kuyt and Bellamy costs about 16 million.

I'd say the latter 2, Bellamy will be the best bargain of the summer for 6 million.

he cost 6 mill?

As for gerrard, i think it was pretty clear at the time, threats to his family changed his mind.

Is this where we add the stories about the Gangsters threatening him not to leave?

EDIT - LRD just did it.

Obispo wrote:He did indeed want out. Whether it was money based or not we can't be sure - Yes he stayed because he got a significant wage increase, but I can't help but feel he would have got more again if he went to Chelsea.

He definitely wanted out though. What changed his mind we'll never know. Glad he did, even if he was a prick about the whole saga.

again if you believe his comments (i don't think he has the brain to lie)... he never wanted out and just used the request as a way to force through the new contract.. but the board played him at his own game and accpeted the bid.. at which point gerrard gave in and just signed... there is a hell of a lot more to the situation than just saying 'he wanted out because he placed a transfer request'

l r d wrote:

luisgarciahedrinkssangria wrote:seeing as carrick + hargreaves will cost about 30 + mil

and Kuyt and Bellamy costs about 16 million.

I'd say the latter 2, Bellamy will be the best bargain of the summer for 6 million.

he cost 6 mill?

As for gerrard, i think it was pretty clear at the time, threats to his family changed his mind.

Bollocks it did

That was the first time around, anyways.

why are we talking about gerrard?

this was a year ago, lets look to the future not the past!

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:my take on gerrard is that he didn´t really want to leave but was v concerned over liverpool´s ability to challenge for the big prizes hence he felt chavski offred better prospects for winning silverware, so i doubt it took a huge amount to change his mind

See, in 2004, I would have agreed with that. But, after the Champions League win, I don't think that arguement holds any water. He was just being childish more than anything IMHO.

Obispo wrote:

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:my take on gerrard is that he didn´t really want to leave but was v concerned over liverpool´s ability to challenge for the big prizes hence he felt chavski offred better prospects for winning silverware, so i doubt it took a huge amount to change his mind

See, in 2004, I would have agreed with that. But, after the Champions League win, I don't think that arguement holds any water. He was just being childish more than anything IMHO.

I think 2004 is what people are talking about.

luisgarciahedrinkssangria wrote:why are we talking about gerrard?

this was a year ago, lets look to the future not the past!

Because COTR as usual threw in a grenade claiming Gerrard never wanted to leave and Ronaldo is desperate to leave.

parky - i certainly was

Sir Parks Lives wrote:

Obispo wrote:

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:my take on gerrard is that he didn´t really want to leave but was v concerned over liverpool´s ability to challenge for the big prizes hence he felt chavski offred better prospects for winning silverware, so i doubt it took a huge amount to change his mind

See, in 2004, I would have agreed with that. But, after the Champions League win, I don't think that arguement holds any water. He was just being childish more than anything IMHO.

I think 2004 is what people are talking about.

Ahh, in that case you've got a point. I'm more pissed off about his 2005 antics.

in 2004 one of his best mates had just been sold and we were well off the pace, also, Benitez is far colder towards the player than Gerard "is this deep enough stevie?" Houllier. Would have been a fair bit of a shock for him, even if he was stupid.

There was loads of stories and incidents going on around that time.

Liverpool gangsters threatened him about leaving, Carragher put him up against a wall and nearly had a punch up, Mourinhio had been tapping him up at Euro 2004.

I still remember the interview with Parry on Sky sports almost crying and the fans burning his T-Shirt.

Sir Parks Lives wrote:There was loads of stories and incidents going on around that time.

Liverpool gangsters threatened him about leaving, Carragher put him up against a wall and nearly had a punch up, Mourinhio had been tapping him up at Euro 2004.

I still remember the interview with Parry on Sky sports almost crying and the fans burning his T-Shirt.

The shirt burning was 2005, as I recall. I don't remember any in 2004.

To be honest, everything I've read on the matter (2004), not just from Liverpool sources, leads me to believe that Gerrard was just being a big baby. He thought Rafa didn't like him. He thought Rafa was trying to get rid of all his mates (murphy, owen etc), and he didn't think the side was heading in the right direction...

2005 is a different matter altogether.

Obispo wrote:

Sir Parks Lives wrote:There was loads of stories and incidents going on around that time.

Liverpool gangsters threatened him about leaving, Carragher put him up against a wall and nearly had a punch up, Mourinhio had been tapping him up at Euro 2004.

I still remember the interview with Parry on Sky sports almost crying and the fans burning his T-Shirt.

The shirt burning was 2005, as I recall. I don't remember any in 2004.

To be honest, everything I've read on the matter (2004), not just from Liverpool sources, leads me to believe that Gerrard was just being a big baby. He thought Rafa didn't like him. He thought Rafa was trying to get rid of all his mates (murphy, owen etc), and he didn't think the side was heading in the right direction...

2005 is a different matter altogether.

It was 2004 just as Parry had been on the box and he was destined to go to Chelsea.

Sir Parks Lives wrote:

Obispo wrote:

Sir Parks Lives wrote:There was loads of stories and incidents going on around that time.

Liverpool gangsters threatened him about leaving, Carragher put him up against a wall and nearly had a punch up, Mourinhio had been tapping him up at Euro 2004.

I still remember the interview with Parry on Sky sports almost crying and the fans burning his T-Shirt.

The shirt burning was 2005, as I recall. I don't remember any in 2004.

To be honest, everything I've read on the matter (2004), not just from Liverpool sources, leads me to believe that Gerrard was just being a big baby. He thought Rafa didn't like him. He thought Rafa was trying to get rid of all his mates (murphy, owen etc), and he didn't think the side was heading in the right direction...

2005 is a different matter altogether.

It was 2004 just as Parry had been on the box and he was destined to go to Chelsea.

I don't remember it in 2004 (not saying it didn't happen), remember it in 2005.

END OF DISCUSSION!!

http://www.sport1.de/de/sport/artikel_299461.html

Now that is a clear sign. Finally Bayern act like they should, the first good decision by the staff in ages IMHO. Selling Hargreaves would have been a huge risk for the club.

I think that Bayern did this on purpose. After Ballack and Ze Roberto left, and the RVN fiasco, the management wanted to show that they are not to be fooked with, that they are a top club that simply does not sell their players, especially no key players, because they don't need to. This is meant as a sign to the other European top clubs. It's about principle, nothing else.

Fancy filling us non-German speakers in on what the article says?

Hoeness and Rummenigge both said that there were no serious talks about a Hargreaves transfer, and that there won't be any in future. And they said that Manu should stop the talks with him.

Bayern staff have clearly told Hargreaves and his agent that they are not willing to sell him, that they have plans with him and expect him to stay at the club until his contract ends in 2010.

Furthermore, Magath said that he is annoyed by Hargreaves attitude, that he should know what he is doing when he signs a long term contract, that contracts are to be fulfilled. Rummenigge said that "there are rights and duty in every contract, and the duty of Hargreaves is to stay at the club until his contract ends in 2010. Basta."

Just sounds exactly like what every team says before the reluctantly sell that player.

Bayern Munich are continuing to play hardball over Owen Hargreaves, with general manager Uli Hoeness reiterating they have no desire to sell the midfielder to Manchester United.

The England international is keen to join The Red Devils ahead of the new Premiership season, and United have dispatched chief executive David Gill in order to hammer out a deal that could reportedly be worth up to £17 million.

The arrival of Hargreaves at Old Trafford would further strengthen Sir Alex Ferguson's midfield after his capture of fellow Three Lions World Cup midfielder Michael Carrick, but Bayern will not let the Canada-born star leave without a fight.

Although Hargreaves only won the affection of the English public after an impressive campaign in Germany, he has been a key player for the Bundesliga giants over a number of seasons.

After seeing Michael Ballack and Ze Roberto leave this summer Bayern general manager Hoeness clearly has no intention of letting Hargreaves join the Allianz Arena exodus.

"You can offer me €50 million for Owen Hargreaves but we will not let him go," said a defiant Hoeness to SID as he described what he told Gill.

Bayern coach Felix Magath is also determined to retain Hargreaves' services as the club look to claim another Bundesliga title this season, stating the midfielder is committed to the side until the end of his contract in 2010

"He can climb to the top of Mount Everest and say whatever he wants but a contract with Bayern Munich is a contract," said Magath.

Despite Bayern's public show of defiance, Ferguson stated on Friday that he is "hopeful" of bringing man-of-the-moment Hargreaves to Old Trafford.

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=410716&CPID=8&clid=1&lid=9&title=Defiant+Bayern+cling+onto+Owen

"He can climb to the top of Mount Everest and say whatever he wants but a contract with Bayern Munich is a contract,"

Brilliant!

Brilliant?

Isar Truppe wrote:
"He can climb to the top of Mount Everest and say whatever he wants but a contract with Bayern Munich is a contract," said Magath.

Exactly what I've been saying about Gallas (although I know Gallas' contract runs out next year!)