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Luso
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EM Seleção e Selecção
TheCrazy58
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Black Magic
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    Alan Smith - Newcastle Captain.

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    Black Magic


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    Post by Black Magic Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:28 pm

    Luso wrote:
    Black Magic wrote:While you're here Luso, have you heard of a Portuguese LB called Antunes. He plays for Roma after being spotted by Spalletti. It was weird because he never played for one of the Portuguese big boys. I think he could be the answer to our Left Back problem. If you have heard of him or seen him play do you think he'll become a great player one day?

    Antunes? Yea, he played for Paços de Ferreira in Portugal before moving to Italy. I've written about this guy before as I wonder about him as he's never played for even a biggish club in Portugal let alone one of the big three.

    Antunes was linked with Sporting and Juventus last summer, then it appeared as though he was set for Juventus while playing in Canada for Portugal at the world U-20 tourney.

    He's currently a PT U-21, he's even worn the arm band at that level, and it seems they're happy with him in Rome despite not getting playing time.

    It's interesting to me that he didn't get a move to one of our big clubs before moving abroad, and I'm not sure what the Italians have seen in him that has convinced them they should make their move now. I've seen him on only a few occasions so I really can't say much about how good he is, although they've only had good things to say about his play for Portugal.

    I think Sporting gambled on the young LB's we already had thinking Antunes wouldn't be any better, while Porto is covered at LB... so perhaps Benfica could've made a move since they've been looking but they already have some young guys and might have thought he wasn't up to it.

    I'm thinking Antunes will be willing to sit on Roma's bench for now, but if he doesn't play soon he'll prob look for a move back to one of Portugal's big clubs as he needs to be playing at this stage in his career.
    Ale

    Okay thanks. Yeah I'm surprised Sporting didnt pounce - Ronny seems, well, Cr@p. He'll get his chance eventually, Tonetto is aging and there isn't a back up.
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    Black Magic


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    Post by Black Magic Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:30 pm

    Robert was awesome in his first season, after that he was shithouse. He is a poor man's Beckham because atleast Beckham was more consistent.
    Machiavel
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    Post by Machiavel Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:35 pm

    Luis wrote:Dirty Geordie.

    Don't hide the fact it was a fellow man who committed the act, hes not a Geordie and they would not like you besmirching their good name.
    christmasborocooper
    christmasborocooper


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    Post by christmasborocooper Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:42 pm

    Is it ok to say players shouldnt trust a coach because he's English, barring a couple like Curbs and Redknapp?

    Or is that like me saying people shouldnt trust a person if he's a darkie, barring a couple like TS and Will Smith?
    Luso
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    Post by Luso Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:54 pm

    Black Magic wrote:
    Luso wrote:
    Black Magic wrote:While you're here Luso, have you heard of a Portuguese LB called Antunes. He plays for Roma after being spotted by Spalletti. It was weird because he never played for one of the Portuguese big boys. I think he could be the answer to our Left Back problem. If you have heard of him or seen him play do you think he'll become a great player one day?

    Antunes? Yea, he played for Paços de Ferreira in Portugal before moving to Italy. I've written about this guy before as I wonder about him as he's never played for even a biggish club in Portugal let alone one of the big three.

    Antunes was linked with Sporting and Juventus last summer, then it appeared as though he was set for Juventus while playing in Canada for Portugal at the world U-20 tourney.

    He's currently a PT U-21, he's even worn the arm band at that level, and it seems they're happy with him in Rome despite not getting playing time.

    It's interesting to me that he didn't get a move to one of our big clubs before moving abroad, and I'm not sure what the Italians have seen in him that has convinced them they should make their move now. I've seen him on only a few occasions so I really can't say much about how good he is, although they've only had good things to say about his play for Portugal.

    I think Sporting gambled on the young LB's we already had thinking Antunes wouldn't be any better, while Porto is covered at LB... so perhaps Benfica could've made a move since they've been looking but they already have some young guys and might have thought he wasn't up to it.

    I'm thinking Antunes will be willing to sit on Roma's bench for now, but if he doesn't play soon he'll prob look for a move back to one of Portugal's big clubs as he needs to be playing at this stage in his career.
    Ale

    Okay thanks. Yeah I'm surprised Sporting didnt pounce - Ronny seems, well, Cr@p. He'll get his chance eventually, Tonetto is aging and there isn't a back up.

    Ronny seems Cr@p? That's almost an offense to Cr@p - at least Cr@p once once something good.
    Luso
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    Post by Luso Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:58 pm

    borocooper wrote:Is it ok to say players shouldnt trust a coach because he's English, barring a couple like Curbs and Redknapp?

    Or is that like me saying people shouldnt trust a person if he's a darkie, barring a couple like TS and Will Smith?
    cheers
    Kimbo
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    Post by Kimbo Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:00 am

    TheCrazy58 wrote:Joey Barton arrested for (another) assault

    http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2232771,00.html

    Barton arrested over alleged assault

    Staff and agencies
    Thursday December 27, 2007
    Guardian Unlimited

    Newcastle midfielder Joey Barton is tonight in police custody in connection with an allegation of assault. The 25-year-old was one of three people arrested in Liverpool in the early hours of today.

    A Merseyside Police spokesman said: "Two males aged 25 and 19 and a woman aged 27 were arrested at 5.30am today on Church Street in Liverpool City Centre following an allegation of assault. All three remain in custody for interview and processing and I expect a decision on charges or release will be made later tonight."

    Doh
    Scouse scum, that's what he is. We should cut our losses, he is gash.
    Puro
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    Post by Puro Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:04 am

    borocooper wrote:Is it ok to say players shouldnt trust a coach because he's English, barring a couple like Curbs and Redknapp?

    Or is that like me saying people shouldnt trust a person if he's a darkie, barring a couple like TS and Will Smith?

    It's perfectly OK not to trust in most of these English coaches because of their track records. They've made their own bed, it's got nothing to do with nationality, it's all about who can do the job and who can't.

    The English FA doesn't trust an English coach, they hired Italiani, and they said no English was under consideration for the job.

    The top/richest English clubs do not entrust their rich investments to just any English coach- Manchester United have TWO coaches a Scot and a Portuguese, Liverpool a Spanish, Chelsea used to have a Portuguese and now an Israeli and a Dutch, Arsenal a French, Tottenham a Spanish, Manchester City a Swede, Everton a Scott, Blackburn a Welshman, Aston Villa an Irish.

    I'm not saying it, the whole of England football is saying that to everyone with these actions. And, I don't blame them for going foreign. Nowadays it's all about what you can do, can you cut the mustard? No matter where you're from. It's good for the game. <Ale>
    Luso
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    Post by Luso Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:05 am

    Honourable C*nt™️ wrote:
    Luso wrote:
    Honourable C*nt™️ wrote:
    Parks lives wrote:The Robson bashers should be stoned. ok

    The only WC English coach of my lifetime Ale

    @ Luso & Black Magic

    Ronaldo made it because unlike Viana, he has size, strength & speed allied to that talent, plus a winning mentality...

    Hugo was, smaller, weaker, slower, and didn't have the same dedication towards improving himself as a player like CR does.

    Laurent Robert was the Mutts nuts - to call him a poor Man's Beckham is absurd. Sure he had crazy outbursts in the media, and could be a lazy git but when he was on fire, he was unstoppable (2001-02, I think).

    I agree with Luso's comment that in whatever country, it's easier to play domestic players who are playin poorly rather than foreigners.

    Viana was weaker than Ronaldo when he arrived in England? Not a chance. Do people remember what Ronaldo looked like when he left Sporting? The kid needed to be fed. He did however have pace and was lucky enough to find a manager that was willing to work with him and not give up or expect things from him he couldn't deliver.

    If Viana was all wrong for Newcastle they shouldn't have brought him in and expected what he couldn't give.

    If you're comparing the two directly, Viana was more developed than Ronaldo when he 1st came here. Ronaldo was a skinny little runt (see my pic below), but he had untapped natural strength that you could never get out of Viana. Add in the pace and mentality factors, and as you rightly point out, an manager that was willing to gamble on him more (helped out by the fact that he's a natural winger rather than a no.10 like Hugo - I hinted at this in my original post) and it explains why he's succeeded and Hugo hasn't.

    Alan Smith - Newcastle Captain. - Page 4 IMG_1489XWEBX

    "Natural strength" on a skinny kid? I'm going to take that as being he had the body type to potentially be the much more physcially developed and as such impressive of the two...

    Ferguson's role is in Ronaldo's adapting is greatly underestimated IMO. Quaresma went to Barça and failed, Viana went to Newcastle and failed... Ronaldo has possibly become the best player in the world.

    They all came from the same school and were all technically gifted and superior to the vast majority of players in their age group, yet only one actually succeeded. To me, that's a pretty clear indication on who was the luckier of the three in his desitnation choice at the time.

    Just to further the argument, Quaresma was the most physically impressive of the three at the time and most technically gifted as well... yet he failed just like Viana... the most mature, intelligent and tactically sound of the three and ironically most likely to succeed - he wasn't chosen as the most promissing young Euro player for nothing you know.
    christmasborocooper
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    Post by christmasborocooper Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:08 am

    But I dont think its foreign players that some English managers cant handle..I think sometimes maybe its big names they cant handle..or pressure of a big club...and all managers seem to struggle with the odd player.

    Bryan Robson managed to work with Juninho, Ravanelli, Emerson, Festa, Branca, Kinder, Ziege etc and he did it well. They're all foreign, some big names and he got them to play well...just so happened that the rest of the team werent as good so we werent as succesful as we could've been really.

    Fat Sam did well with Okocha, though you for some reason deny this..never understand that. He played well at Bolton and was probably the only reason alot of people watched Bolton. He seeed to do well with Campo aswell...and there's probably others I cant think of.
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    Post by Luso Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:16 am

    Puro wrote:
    borocooper wrote:Is it ok to say players shouldnt trust a coach because he's English, barring a couple like Curbs and Redknapp?

    Or is that like me saying people shouldnt trust a person if he's a darkie, barring a couple like TS and Will Smith?

    It's perfectly OK not to trust in most of these English coaches because of their track records. They've made their own bed, it's got nothing to do with nationality, it's all about who can do the job and who can't.

    The English FA doesn't trust an English coach, they hired Italiani, and they said no English was under consideration for the job.

    The top/richest English clubs do not entrust their rich investments to just any English coach- Manchester United have TWO coaches a Scot and a Portuguese, Liverpool a Spanish, Chelsea used to have a Portuguese and now an Israeli and a Dutch, Arsenal a French, Tottenham a Spanish, Manchester City a Swede, Everton a Scott, Blackburn a Welshman, Aston Villa an Irish.

    I'm not saying it, the whole of England football is saying that to everyone with these actions. And, I don't blame them for going foreign. Nowadays it's all about what you can do, can you cut the mustard? No matter where you're from. It's good for the game. <Ale>

    Puro is pointing out the obvious here. He's not the one hiering these guys, the English F.A. and English clubs are...
    Luso
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    Post by Luso Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:21 am

    borocooper wrote:But I dont think its foreign players that some English managers cant handle..I think sometimes maybe its big names they cant handle..or pressure of a big club...and all managers seem to struggle with the odd player.

    Bryan Robson managed to work with Juninho, Ravanelli, Emerson, Festa, Branca, Kinder, Ziege etc and he did it well. They're all foreign, some big names and he got them to play well...just so happened that the rest of the team werent as good so we werent as succesful as we could've been really.

    Fat Sam did well with Okocha, though you for some reason deny this..never understand that. He played well at Bolton and was probably the only reason alot of people watched Bolton. He seeed to do well with Campo aswell...and there's probably others I cant think of.

    I was actually thinking about making a thread about Fat Sam for this reason. I actually think Sam did well at Bolton and broiugh in players other English managers probably wouldn't have and did well with some others in England didn't- Okocha, Diouf (couldn't handle him at LFC), Campo, Hierro, Anelka, the Greek guy etc. (ok, don't know anymore, I don't particularly follow Bolton).

    For an Englishmen, he seemed to have a good ability to get players other clubs didn't really consider... just my opinion. I realise Bolton was criticised for punt up football though which I really don't respect.
    L r d hAsta LueGo
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    Post by L r d hAsta LueGo Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:33 am

    Luso wrote:
    borocooper wrote:Is it ok to say players shouldnt trust a coach because he's English, barring a couple like Curbs and Redknapp?

    Or is that like me saying people shouldnt trust a person if he's a darkie, barring a couple like TS and Will Smith?
    cheers

    Biggrin

    Greatest rapper alive Cool
    robert
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    Post by robert Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:46 am

    That PG rated $h!t was indeed the greatest rap of all time.
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    Post by Bashmachkin Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:32 am

    With Allardyce, I wonder whether Boltons limitations - their lack of money in particular, as well as the relative lack of pressure at the club - actually helped him. It meant he had to take risks on what quality he could get - players like Okocha who were available for nothing but who had the ability to play in the Premiership. At Newcastle, with a bit more money, his signings have been poor - we spent £18 million on Smith, Barton and Enrique, of whom the first is one of the worst players Ive seen wear the shirt; the second is equally limited, currently under arrest, only a disgrace to the club; and the latter player is one that Allardyce shows no faith in. The signs are that, with money, he will be able to expose his limitations to the full, and will bring in similarly limited players, overpriced, supposedly proven Premiership tough-nuts.

    Ive given my views on Robson and Viana before. For me, Robson did a fantastic job for us in his first three years in charge, but unfortunately undid a lot of the good work in his last year and a half at the club. There is an argument that our decline even started from the last six or seven games of the season in which we finished third - certainly, in the following season, though we finished fifth still, it was clear that things were crumbling; our performances waned drastically; Robson made increasingly poor and, in my view, biased and arrogant decisions; his post match interviews presented a confused manager, failing to admit obvious flaws, constantly defending some players and deriding others; and the team spirit and the respect between the players and the manager seemed to fall apart.

    I tend to side with Puro when it comes to Nobbys ability. I think its easy to undervalue his worth, and in seeing a few of West Hams games this season, Im only more convinced as to what a clever footballer he is and to the positive effect he has on the teams he plays for. Besides from having a great knack for scoring and being one of the most creative players in the league, he is such a clever and technically gifted player that he improves the football of the entire team, makes the team flow better.

    Things were going downhill before Nobby left, but his sale symbolised more than anything else what was going on, and it exacerbated the situation. It must also be remembered that Robson had stopped playing him regularly even from late on in the previous season, replacing him with Darren Ambrose then also with Lee Bowyer after the summer - two players who never had a quarter of Nobbys quality, whilst Lee Bowyer couldnt play at all on the wing - and that this was at least somewhat to blame for our failings on the pitch.

    I dont agree that we embodied mad pace and physical power at the time - we did have a balanced squad, but it was balanced in the sense that we had a good mix of youth and experience and had plenty of players in the team who were good footballers. We didnt have a lot of power in the squad, we did have a lot of pace - but the pace of the likes of Dyer and Bellamy was complemented and made valuable by the intelligence of Solano, Shearer, Speed. Robson not only disrupted the balance on the pitch when he stopped playing Solano, but he removed one of the more experienced and well liked players from the squad. The fact that he did this, added to the sale of Speed in the following summer - Speed being replaced by Nicky Butt, who, besides from being an inferior replacement in terms of ability, has never shown any of the sort of leadership qualities that Speed had - and the rumours about Shearers departure lead me to wonder whether Robson was trying to exert too much control over the club, wanting to build a team of (English) youngsters that would be all his own, which ended up damaging the team. I respect Robson hugely, I admire his achievements abroad, but I also think he was a supremely arrogant manager at times.

    Regardless, Nobbys sale showed a certain nasty side to Robson, and he was cast aside completely when he chose to start playing for Peru again. And I do believe, like I say, that Robson, at least in his last year and a half, started to strongly favour English players just because they were English. Lua Lua, despite, during Bellamys frequent absences, being a better partner for Shearer than Ameobi was, started to never get any opportunities - and I wonder whether this had anything to do with the fact he chose during this time to play for the Congo rather than to wait for an England opportunity. Laurent Robert (and I agree with Kimbo on his level of ability) was often made an easy scapegoat for poor performances, whilst players like Jenas and Dyer would never face criticism, would never be dropped no matter how poorly they played.

    Similarly, Viana never got the chances he deserved for Newcastle. Its true that all of Speed, Jenas and Dyer were ahead of him in his time at the club - but Speed had a couple of long periods out injured, Dyer was injured frequently, and Jenas was often dreadful for us in that season in which we finished fifth - as I say, the latter two, despite poor performances, were undroppable. Viana wasnt given a lot of opportunities when people were injured, and when they werent he wasnt given a kick despite impressing in his early days at the club. I certainly agree that Viana quickly displayed a superior footballing brain and passing ability to pretty much everyone else in the squad. And I do think the Ronaldo comparison is somewhat instructive. Its true that Ronaldo always had the pace that meant he could adapt easier to the Premiership. It remains that it took Ronaldo time to adapt; that, upon joining the Premiership, Viana was more of a finished product as well as being the superior player; that Ronaldo was given time and games by Ferguson, whilst Robson made no attempt to help Viana adapt.

    For me, Viana easily possessed (and possesses, though we set back his development hugely) the ability and the brain to succeed in the Premiership, and he did look very good in the Premiership in his earlier games for Newcastle. After just a few games there were regular 'Hugo, Hugo' chants at the ground - Newcastle fans can recognize ability. But Robson favoured Jenas and Dyer (and then Bowyer too) to a ridiculous, undeserved extent, and as Viana went months without first team games his confidence and his match fitness declined, and towards the end of his second season, in the few matches he did play, he was also made a scapegoat once or twice by Robson. Essentially, we made the very worst of what we had - whatever view is taken, I think its very unfair to suggest Viana couldnt cope as a footballer in the Premiership.

    Again, for me, the mess we are in at the moment is due to us not sacking Robson soon enough. He should have gone in the summer - the fact that he didnt go then allowed all the problems of the previous season to grow and to boil over, and we were left early in the season with a team down at the bottom end of the table, with a squad in disarray, and with little time to find a new manager - of which few were available. So we brought in Souness, which was always the wrong appointment; we brought in Roeder; and now Allardyce is proving the worst of the lot. If we had said goodbye to Robson in that summer, had looked around for a proper manager then with more time and more availability, we would (most likely) be in a much better situation today.
    TheCrazy58
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    Post by TheCrazy58 Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:26 am

    Black Magic wrote:Robert was awesome in his first season, after that he was shithouse. He is a poor man's Beckham because atleast Beckham was more consistent.

    Laurent Robert was a misunderstood genius. Ale...well, at least a more decent player than he was given credit for.
    Deluded F*ck™
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    Post by Deluded F*ck™ Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:07 am

    Lovely Post Bash. Ale
    lrdsucksgoats
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    Post by lrdsucksgoats Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:14 am

    Indeed, even though I disagree with you about Robson, that's a very good post.
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    Post by Black Magic Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:14 pm

    Merry ChristBash-machkin wrote:With Allardyce, I wonder whether Boltons limitations - their lack of money in particular, as well as the relative lack of pressure at the club - actually helped him. It meant he had to take risks on what quality he could get - players like Okocha who were available for nothing but who had the ability to play in the Premiership. At Newcastle, with a bit more money, his signings have been poor - we spent £18 million on Smith, Barton and Enrique, of whom the first is one of the worst players Ive seen wear the shirt; the second is equally limited, currently under arrest, only a disgrace to the club; and the latter player is one that Allardyce shows no faith in. The signs are that, with money, he will be able to expose his limitations to the full, and will bring in similarly limited players, overpriced, supposedly proven Premiership tough-nuts.

    Ive given my views on Robson and Viana before. For me, Robson did a fantastic job for us in his first three years in charge, but unfortunately undid a lot of the good work in his last year and a half at the club. There is an argument that our decline even started from the last six or seven games of the season in which we finished third - certainly, in the following season, though we finished fifth still, it was clear that things were crumbling; our performances waned drastically; Robson made increasingly poor and, in my view, biased and arrogant decisions; his post match interviews presented a confused manager, failing to admit obvious flaws, constantly defending some players and deriding others; and the team spirit and the respect between the players and the manager seemed to fall apart.

    I tend to side with Puro when it comes to Nobbys ability. I think its easy to undervalue his worth, and in seeing a few of West Hams games this season, Im only more convinced as to what a clever footballer he is and to the positive effect he has on the teams he plays for. Besides from having a great knack for scoring and being one of the most creative players in the league, he is such a clever and technically gifted player that he improves the football of the entire team, makes the team flow better.

    Things were going downhill before Nobby left, but his sale symbolised more than anything else what was going on, and it exacerbated the situation. It must also be remembered that Robson had stopped playing him regularly even from late on in the previous season, replacing him with Darren Ambrose then also with Lee Bowyer after the summer - two players who never had a quarter of Nobbys quality, whilst Lee Bowyer couldnt play at all on the wing - and that this was at least somewhat to blame for our failings on the pitch.

    I dont agree that we embodied mad pace and physical power at the time - we did have a balanced squad, but it was balanced in the sense that we had a good mix of youth and experience and had plenty of players in the team who were good footballers. We didnt have a lot of power in the squad, we did have a lot of pace - but the pace of the likes of Dyer and Bellamy was complemented and made valuable by the intelligence of Solano, Shearer, Speed. Robson not only disrupted the balance on the pitch when he stopped playing Solano, but he removed one of the more experienced and well liked players from the squad. The fact that he did this, added to the sale of Speed in the following summer - Speed being replaced by Nicky Butt, who, besides from being an inferior replacement in terms of ability, has never shown any of the sort of leadership qualities that Speed had - and the rumours about Shearers departure lead me to wonder whether Robson was trying to exert too much control over the club, wanting to build a team of (English) youngsters that would be all his own, which ended up damaging the team. I respect Robson hugely, I admire his achievements abroad, but I also think he was a supremely arrogant manager at times.

    Regardless, Nobbys sale showed a certain nasty side to Robson, and he was cast aside completely when he chose to start playing for Peru again. And I do believe, like I say, that Robson, at least in his last year and a half, started to strongly favour English players just because they were English. Lua Lua, despite, during Bellamys frequent absences, being a better partner for Shearer than Ameobi was, started to never get any opportunities - and I wonder whether this had anything to do with the fact he chose during this time to play for the Congo rather than to wait for an England opportunity. Laurent Robert (and I agree with Kimbo on his level of ability) was often made an easy scapegoat for poor performances, whilst players like Jenas and Dyer would never face criticism, would never be dropped no matter how poorly they played.

    Similarly, Viana never got the chances he deserved for Newcastle. Its true that all of Speed, Jenas and Dyer were ahead of him in his time at the club - but Speed had a couple of long periods out injured, Dyer was injured frequently, and Jenas was often dreadful for us in that season in which we finished fifth - as I say, the latter two, despite poor performances, were undroppable. Viana wasnt given a lot of opportunities when people were injured, and when they werent he wasnt given a kick despite impressing in his early days at the club. I certainly agree that Viana quickly displayed a superior footballing brain and passing ability to pretty much everyone else in the squad. And I do think the Ronaldo comparison is somewhat instructive. Its true that Ronaldo always had the pace that meant he could adapt easier to the Premiership. It remains that it took Ronaldo time to adapt; that, upon joining the Premiership, Viana was more of a finished product as well as being the superior player; that Ronaldo was given time and games by Ferguson, whilst Robson made no attempt to help Viana adapt.

    For me, Viana easily possessed (and possesses, though we set back his development hugely) the ability and the brain to succeed in the Premiership, and he did look very good in the Premiership in his earlier games for Newcastle. After just a few games there were regular 'Hugo, Hugo' chants at the ground - Newcastle fans can recognize ability. But Robson favoured Jenas and Dyer (and then Bowyer too) to a ridiculous, undeserved extent, and as Viana went months without first team games his confidence and his match fitness declined, and towards the end of his second season, in the few matches he did play, he was also made a scapegoat once or twice by Robson. Essentially, we made the very worst of what we had - whatever view is taken, I think its very unfair to suggest Viana couldnt cope as a footballer in the Premiership.

    Again, for me, the mess we are in at the moment is due to us not sacking Robson soon enough. He should have gone in the summer - the fact that he didnt go then allowed all the problems of the previous season to grow and to boil over, and we were left early in the season with a team down at the bottom end of the table, with a squad in disarray, and with little time to find a new manager - of which few were available. So we brought in Souness, which was always the wrong appointment; we brought in Roeder; and now Allardyce is proving the worst of the lot. If we had said goodbye to Robson in that summer, had looked around for a proper manager then with more time and more availability, we would (most likely) be in a much better situation today.

    You have a gift my friend. <Ale>
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    Post by EM Seleção e Selecção Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:37 pm

    Puro wrote:
    borocooper wrote:Is it ok to say players shouldnt trust a coach because he's English, barring a couple like Curbs and Redknapp?

    Or is that like me saying people shouldnt trust a person if he's a darkie, barring a couple like TS and Will Smith?

    It's perfectly OK not to trust in most of these English coaches because of their track records. They've made their own bed, it's got nothing to do with nationality, it's all about who can do the job and who can't.

    The English FA doesn't trust an English coach, they hired Italiani, and they said no English was under consideration for the job.

    The top/richest English clubs do not entrust their rich investments to just any English coach- Manchester United have TWO coaches a Scot and a Portuguese, Liverpool a Spanish, Chelsea used to have a Portuguese and now an Israeli and a Dutch, Arsenal a French, Tottenham a Spanish, Manchester City a Swede, Everton a Scott, Blackburn a Welshman, Aston Villa an Irish.

    I'm not saying it, the whole of England football is saying that to everyone with these actions. And, I don't blame them for going foreign. Nowadays it's all about what you can do, can you cut the mustard? No matter where you're from. It's good for the game. <Ale>



    <Ale> <Ale> <Ale> <Ale>
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    Post by Luso Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:34 pm

    Bash, you sir are quite the analyst.
    Your post was well worth the read.
    Ale

    I'm not sure if you've read mine a couple pages back regarding Newcastle's state of affairs, but in it I've touched on the transfers topic as you have.

    Personally, I'm of the opinion Newcastle should take more of a modest approach in the transfer market and not look for these supposed 'big' names like Smith and Owen, both of which have not been good for the club.

    At Bolton Sam brought in relatively unknown names, as far as the English game goes at least, and managed to get the most out of them and perform well in their new surroundings.

    Newcastle IMO always seems to want to go big, even trying to land Rooney ahead of Man Utd... now although theres nothing wrong with ambition I think spending huge isn't necessarily the way to go. There's plenty of talent available at much more reasonable prices than Newcastle often spends, and despite Kimbo's stance on this, Newcastle is a pretty rich club and can attract quality players based on contract offers.

    In short, to me Newcastle should leave the Kluiverts (and their egos) alone and go after much more humble but harder working guys to turn things around. Again, I think Benny McCarthey would've been great.. yes big ego, but unlike with superstar millionaires, he's always eager to prove his worth.


    Last edited by on Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Green Arrow Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:42 pm

    Parks lives wrote:Under fire Newcastle boss Sam Allardyce has named Alan Smith as his new captain.

    Smith was initially handed the skipper's armband for the 1-0 Boxing Day defeat to Wigan but Allardyce has confirmed that the appointment is a now permanent one.

    The former Bolton manager, however, denies that his decision was motivated by Geremi's imminent departure to the African Cup of Nations, even if his tone suggested otherwise.

    "We need to establish for a while somebody who can captain the side on a regular basis with the attitude, desire and commitment that Alan shows", Allardyce told Newcastle's official website.

    Many will see the appointment, however, as a reaction to the teams latest booing off the pitch at the hands of the Toon Army following the disappointing loss at Wigan and Allardyce clearly hopes that Smith's ultra committed attitude to every game rubs off on some of the other players.

    "I'd like all the players to be like that", scowled the coach.

    Smith himself is delighted and determined to lead by example.

    "It's a massive honour for myself," said the 27 year-old, who has surprisingly now been skipper at all three of his clubs, "wearing the armband gives you that extra lift...you are the focal point...you've got to make sure you're giving 100% week-in, week-out."

    The Newcastle faithful will be hoping that it proves to be a catalyst to kick-start their season.


    Great decision. sunny <Ale>

    A Redblood is ALWAYS a big fish in a small pond! Great deciosn!!
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    Post by Kimbo Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:52 pm

    Luso wrote:Bash, you sir are quite the analyst.
    Your post was well worth the read.
    Ale

    I'm not sure if you've read mine a couple pages back regarding Newcastle's state of affairs, but in it I've touched on the transfers topic as you have.

    Personally, I'm of the opinion Newcastle should take more of a modest approach in the transfer market and not look for these supposed 'big' names like Smith and Owen, both of which have not been good for the club.

    At Bolton Sam brought in relatively unknown names, as far as the English game goes at least, and managed to get the most out of them and perform well in their new surroundings.

    Newcastle IMO always seems to want to go big, even trying to land Rooney ahead of Man Utd... now although theres nothing wrong with ambition I think spending huge isn't necessarily the way to go. There's plenty of talent available at much more reasonable prices than Newcastle often spends, and despite Kimbo's stance on this, Newcastle is a pretty rich club and can attract quality players based on contract offers.

    In short, to me Newcastle should leave the Kluiverts (and their egos) alone and go after much more humble but harder working guys to turn things around. Again, I think Benny McCarthey would've been great.. yes big ego, but unlike with superstar millionaires, he's always eager to prove his worth.
    What would Benny McCarthy give us that we don't already have? Strikers really aren't what we need.

    And IMO this thing about Newcastle always going for the big name isn't true - it may have been under the previous regime but under Mike Ashley we haven't gone big yet. Smith isn't a big name, he was a back up player that we had to fight it out with Everton and Boro to sign him.
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    Post by L r d hAsta LueGo Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:56 pm

    Everton ended up with Yakubu and you got Smith, Moyes is a lucky bastard! lol!
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    Post by Green Arrow Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:57 pm

    Merry Krimbo wrote:Puro, I'm not going to say Sam is a bad coach because of what he did at Bolton. But yes he has been a big let down with us. This ranks up there with "Milner isn't a right winger. lets put that to bed" and "The problem with N'Zogbia is i don't know what his best position is, is it left back or left wing".

    Maybe tis NOT teh coach - but t'club thats so shitt that it makes all its coaches become t'same? Just a thought. Very Happy
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    Post by Luso Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:57 pm

    Merry Krimbo wrote:
    Luso wrote:Bash, you sir are quite the analyst.
    Your post was well worth the read.
    Ale

    I'm not sure if you've read mine a couple pages back regarding Newcastle's state of affairs, but in it I've touched on the transfers topic as you have.

    Personally, I'm of the opinion Newcastle should take more of a modest approach in the transfer market and not look for these supposed 'big' names like Smith and Owen, both of which have not been good for the club.

    At Bolton Sam brought in relatively unknown names, as far as the English game goes at least, and managed to get the most out of them and perform well in their new surroundings.

    Newcastle IMO always seems to want to go big, even trying to land Rooney ahead of Man Utd... now although theres nothing wrong with ambition I think spending huge isn't necessarily the way to go. There's plenty of talent available at much more reasonable prices than Newcastle often spends, and despite Kimbo's stance on this, Newcastle is a pretty rich club and can attract quality players based on contract offers.

    In short, to me Newcastle should leave the Kluiverts (and their egos) alone and go after much more humble but harder working guys to turn things around. Again, I think Benny McCarthey would've been great.. yes big ego, but unlike with superstar millionaires, he's always eager to prove his worth.
    What would Benny McCarthy give us that we don't already have? Strikers really aren't what we need.

    And IMO this thing about Newcastle always going for the big name isn't true - it may have been under the previous regime but under Mike Ashley we haven't gone big yet. Smith isn't a big name, he was a back up player that we had to fight it out with Everton and Boro to sign him.

    McCarthey is just an example. To me, it's a more sound investment than Owen for example.

    How much did Smith cost and what are his wages? If he wasn't at Man Utd would Newcaslte have been interested in landing him?
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    Post by Luso Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:58 pm

    L r d wrote:Everton ended up with Yakubu and you got Smith, Moyes is a lucky bastard! lol!

    This is what I'm trying to get at...
    Luso
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    Post by Luso Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:58 pm

    Green Arrow wrote:
    Merry Krimbo wrote:Puro, I'm not going to say Sam is a bad coach because of what he did at Bolton. But yes he has been a big let down with us. This ranks up there with "Milner isn't a right winger. lets put that to bed" and "The problem with N'Zogbia is i don't know what his best position is, is it left back or left wing".

    Maybe tis NOT teh coach - but t'club thats so shitt that it makes all its coaches become t'same? Just a thought. Very Happy

    Is there a point to your participation on this board?
    And I do mean other than constantly flashing us with pics of your man crushes...
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    Post by Kimbo Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:06 pm

    Luso wrote:
    Merry Krimbo wrote:
    Luso wrote:Bash, you sir are quite the analyst.
    Your post was well worth the read.
    Ale

    I'm not sure if you've read mine a couple pages back regarding Newcastle's state of affairs, but in it I've touched on the transfers topic as you have.

    Personally, I'm of the opinion Newcastle should take more of a modest approach in the transfer market and not look for these supposed 'big' names like Smith and Owen, both of which have not been good for the club.

    At Bolton Sam brought in relatively unknown names, as far as the English game goes at least, and managed to get the most out of them and perform well in their new surroundings.

    Newcastle IMO always seems to want to go big, even trying to land Rooney ahead of Man Utd... now although theres nothing wrong with ambition I think spending huge isn't necessarily the way to go. There's plenty of talent available at much more reasonable prices than Newcastle often spends, and despite Kimbo's stance on this, Newcastle is a pretty rich club and can attract quality players based on contract offers.

    In short, to me Newcastle should leave the Kluiverts (and their egos) alone and go after much more humble but harder working guys to turn things around. Again, I think Benny McCarthey would've been great.. yes big ego, but unlike with superstar millionaires, he's always eager to prove his worth.
    What would Benny McCarthy give us that we don't already have? Strikers really aren't what we need.

    And IMO this thing about Newcastle always going for the big name isn't true - it may have been under the previous regime but under Mike Ashley we haven't gone big yet. Smith isn't a big name, he was a back up player that we had to fight it out with Everton and Boro to sign him.

    McCarthey is just an example. To me, it's a more sound investment than Owen for example.

    How much did Smith cost and what are his wages? If he wasn't at Man Utd would Newcaslte have been interested in landing him?
    Smith was £6m, i don't know his wages. I don't know if he would've been signed if he wasn't at Man U, personally i think he's still living off his time at Leeds.

    Owen was bought under different ownership and by a different manager years ago so i don't really think it's relevant. Out of this summers signings who are the big names?

    Beye - £2m
    Rozehnal - £2.7m
    Cacapa - Free
    Faye - £2m
    Enrique - £6m
    Viduka - Free
    Barton - £5.8m
    Smith - £6m

    The biggest name there is Viduka and he was a free.


    Luso wrote:
    L r d wrote:Everton ended up with Yakubu and you got Smith, Moyes is a lucky bastard! lol!

    This is what I'm trying to get at...
    But Yakubu is a far bigger name than Smith and cost twice as much. Plus Smith was bought as a midfielder, a replacement for Dyer apparently.

    The problem is the manager, his footballing philosophy and the midfield. It has nothing to do with wanting to be a "big club".
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    Post by Luso Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:17 pm

    Smith is living off with Leeds days...

    Fair enough Kimbo, my comment regarding Newcastle's transfers isn't one based on this season alone in which you're showing that you haven't spent that much... but Newcastle isn't one season old.

    If things are turning around, good for the club.

    Yakubu may be the more expensive player now, but I'm sure there was a time when he woudl've been the more economically friendly option no? You did have a guy like LuaLua who I think is an interesting player, as opposed to fucking Ameobi, but he was let go.

    I'm just saying Newcastle should take small steps to go the distance. If the club is reducing it's transfer fees, than that IMO is a good move.

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