VAN BOMMEL won't play for ORANJE WITH VAN BASTEN as coach!

ricardojol wrote:Form and injury reasons. Huntelaar is the man for the future but don't kill the guy.

"don't kill the guy" - meaning the 'backlash' from the fans? 'expectations' etc

or other reasons ..


Your right (and i have been saying this) .. he is one for the Future.

Media hype and fans expectations...

We hype players and after they play a few bad games we try to finish him off...

But also, I think Vennegoor is at the moment better for Oranje than KJH, especially if we can't "dominate" ! KJH can become the next Ruud van Nistelrooy if we can't make the games and that's not what I want!

Concerning KJH; after last seasons exploits, i can understand where the 'hype' has come from .. and now he is not 'fulfilling' his standard (which he set .. despite its early days) the pressure is on him, and fans who 'want to bring him down' are not fans - however can we say all this is KJH's fault??

My solution is to play in the 'same' system Blind used at Ajax last season (towards the end of the season) with Rosenberg & KJH in a partnership up front, with Sneijder behind as the 'play maker' and maybe Babel or Rosales in support ... with Oranje; Robben - van Persie and KJH (that is what San Marco will choose and that is what the fans will settle for .. unless San Marco shakes things up??)

Perhaps! I think has to do with the support he needs. If Robben and Robin get many balls and the support comes from the midfield it will make it easier for Klaas! But, so far the has not gelled that well so I am afraid he will play on a lonely island...

Vennegoor you can also reach by long balls so for him it doesn't matter if he gets much support ....

Huntelaar is out for, two to four weeks.

huntelaar was unlucky that robben was injured since both rvp and kuijt are no real wingers.

ricardojol wrote:Doel: Van der Sar (Manchester United) en Timmer (Feyenoord)

Achterhoede: Emanuelson en Heitinga (beiden Ajax), De Cler en Jaliens (beiden AZ), Van Bronckhorst (Barcelona), Ooijer (Blackburn Rovers), Boulahrouz (Chelsea) en Mathijsen (HSV)

Middenveld: Van Bommel (Bayern München), Sneijder (Ajax), Schaars en De Zeeuw (beiden AZ), De Jong (HSV) en Landzaat (Wigan Athletic)

Aanval: Babel en Huntelaar (beiden Ajax), Van Persie (Arsenal), Robben (Chelsea), Kuijt (Liverpool) en Vennegoor of Hesselink (Celtic)

I miss Kromkamp because I would play with him! But with the current squad it is:

------------Sar

Boulah---Ooijer--Mathijsen---Gio

-------------Schaars-----------

Landzaat/van bommel*--------Sneijder

Persie-------Vennegoor---Robben

Heitinga have to stay home! I saw how Greene played a solid performance against Lok Sofia and he deserves a chance to sit on the bench...

If Landzaat is also not in form I have to choose for Van Bommel!

ajax have the best defense of the eredivisie, i don't see why people keep underrating the ajax defenders. but i have to agree with you that heitinga is not first team material yet for oranje (with his last two interlands in mind).

i would play with the about the same line-up, only one minor change. kuijt for vennegoor.

d gorgeous one haz spoken wrote:huntelaar was unlucky that robben was injured since both rvp and kuijt are no real wingers.

The game against Ireland .. Robben, van Persie and VDV all supporting KJH - no surprise he got a brace.

yeps!

they's the fantastic four.

d gorgeous one haz spoken wrote:yeps!

they's the fantastic four.

The Future stars

Guys,

Now that Huntelaar injured himself in training on friday, San Marco better not play Babel!

Distinguished Dutchman wrote:Guys,

Now that Huntelaar injured himself in training on friday, San Marco better not play Babel!

What makes you think he will?

The man is capable of anything - the simple fact that he selects Babel, and not Makaay or RVN.
He'll probably start JVoH (with his squad I would), but like I said, nothing would surprise me anymore.

Those bannings are already biting him in the arse.

@ Distinguished Dutchman

Rosenberg has more of a chance of making the 1st XI (against Bulgaria) than Babel ..

JVoH should start - can RVN still be called up, or San Marco 'wants nothing to do with him' ..

IMO - San Marco should swallow his pride and do what is best for the side ..

They don't call him "Babelinho" for nothing.

blutgraetsche wrote:They don't call him "Babelinho" for nothing.

He's playing well for Ajax at the moment, i wouldn't be surprised if he comes on as a sub - like DD has said (or his fears) Babel should not start against Bulgaria (van Persie - JVoH - Robben?) ..

OMG Van Bommel has snubbed Van Basten !

He'll not play under this manager again...



....it seems I've always underestimated Van Bommel, he's *so* right with this decision...big kudos to Mark !

Axeslammer ! wrote:OMG Van Bommel has snubbed Van Basten !

He'll not play under this manager again...



....it seems I've always underestimated Van Bommel, he's *so* right with this decision...big kudos to Mark !

Mark is so right not to play for him anymore. MVB thinks that he can do everything with that player. Same goes for RVN btw, now we dont have any striker for the qualifiers...Well done van Basten

Way to go, Mark!

So has Ruud - he too snubbed Van basten. Over the weekend Van Basten called Ruud, including to check if he'd like to play in the coming matches, and Van the man passed on his offer.


*standing ovation applause*







Oranje has already gone to the dogs. Bring on the Babel's, Jaliens' and Heitinga's of this world.

@ Distinguished Dutchman

If 'only' De Hunter was not injured ...

So it be - Schaars and two others in midfield, i wouldn't call it a 'bad' move if Sneijder started (in a more of an advance roll)

Although it's an admirable step by Van Bommel and RVN, it's a considerable risk as well. Now, the youngsters who are prefered by Van Basten will give their best for their coach. Should they succeed, which means should Oranje win the next few matches comfortably, I can imagine them getting a lot of stick, and probably never get a chance to play for Oranje again, even under a different coach.

But if Oranje fails to convince, the pressure on "San Marco" will increase dramatically.

@ blutgraetsche

Schaars, Sneijder (he might start..) and maybe Landzaat or de Zeeuw??

If Oranje win against Bulgaria and Albania and the team performs well (important in San Marco's eyes) i doubt they will get stick.

The only problem is no De Hunter .. they way hes been playing, i 'doubt' he would have performed..time for JVoH?

As you say .. if they 'fail to impress' .. Pressure mounts (which i don't want)

I meant that RVN and Van Bommel will get a lot of stick afterwards, should Oranje play well without them.

If not, the pressure on San Marco will increase indeed, like I said.

blutgraetsche wrote:I meant that RVN and Van Bommel will get a lot of stick afterwards, should Oranje play well without them.

If not, the pressure on San Marco will increase indeed, like I said.

I doubt it, some fans would love to have them in the team. If they get stick .. it should mean that the fans are on San Marcos side (something that is not happening on these boards..)

Its a double edge sword .. if the team performs bad .. there will be cries for them to be brought back - the only way San Marco can win is, if his 'team' wins the next two games and performs 110%.

@ Blut,

It's a bit complicated. With Van Bommel, he never got any respect or credit from Van Basten. Never. For almost a year and a half he wasn't selected by Van basten because Van Bommel wasn't "defensively sound". Which is bollocks of course. he got one or two tries under Van basten in San Marco's first matches, and wasn't selected for the longest time since. Van Basten's reason was that he wouldn't contribute to defense - bollocks, becuase he does it better than plenty of people in the squad including the ENTIRE Ajax guard. Harshly and bollocks. Then Van Basten went on a tour to try and convince people that the player who was instrumental for PSV almost reaching the CL final; who was one of the first names on the sheet by previous coaches,; who was transfered to Barca, wasn't good enough for Oranje. He failed miserably of course - this was during San Marco's honeymoon period.
He brought him back at the brink of going to the WC, because simply put we needed him to beef up our midfield, and it would be a waste not to select him (compared to some of the dross we took).
Marco Van Basten went on to put the blame solely on Van Bommel's shoulder for our midfield not performing during the WC.

As for Ruud; hate him or like him, but the man can score like few can. He guarentuees you goals. Ruud went on to score during the entire qualifying campaign - even with poor supply often - and helped us get to the WC (some avg. like over 3 goals every 4 matches).
San Marco tinkered and tooled with the entire squad before and during the WC, f*cking disbalanced it, didn't play Kuijt anymore, and Van Persie and Robben were quite selfish during the WC, coupled with some of teh toughest opponents and Ruud got stuck on a lonely island two consequetive matches (ALL other strikers would have been). Ruud's chances were counted: during those two matches he got two chances, one he buried, the other one got a great save from the keeper, and another time he created something out of nothing in which he would have scored if noot for the deflection of a shin of an unaware IC defender. He contributed in the build up, and even had to defend the midfield during a couple of instances. Not bad I would have thought.

The midfield tactics cost us and him good chances; any striker would have been stranded. Golden balls Huntelaar, Makaay or JVoH - Fucking FACT.

They got in a quarrel because of Van Basten's mistake too - he was already quite condescending of some players in the press (not all of them could be like the great SAN Marco), and he was keeping RVN on a rope. And unintentionally said that Ruud, wouldn't be selected anymore, while the modus operandi was that the players always get to hear it before the media does. We all know how San Marco likes to apologise and admit a fault - by banning someone. And then try to convince a nation that Ruud's not good enough (!), that it was his fualt we didn't get to score more etc. Pathethic.


If Van Bommel's and Ruud's snubbing would cost them in the end, none of us have got a crystal ball, but the odds are massively in their favour. First of it didn't have to come to this, and its the manager's fault. They aren't not crap, like San Marco and pops Cruijff are trying to convince people. Blaming those two for our WC exit (!) is very lame. And just look at what Van Basten brings into our team (instead), dire utility players who are rightfully benched at their own clubs - who've failed on each and every chance they get in Oranje. Who are in fact more to blame for us underachieving in the past 6 months.

Marco van Basten can't steer a game into his hands, he's too inexperienced for that still. He admits no fault, sticks by and keeps selecting the same players. He was brought in to select the better, more promising youth players, but fails to select them (or even try them out!: De Zeeuw, Greene) keeps selecting those that aren't (Heitinga, Jaliens, the main culprits). Only now he's brought in Schaars and Huntelaar! Fails to select one of the very best defenders we have (Opdam CB). Etc etc, its a laundry list really.

Every day more and more people become aware that Van Basten is pretty much sabotaging our chances; putting it blunty. Thank fuck. And every other coach out there does not understand his selections and decisions (esp the bannings), so I don't think those two will be viewed harshly on this, most will back them. And they are still the best we have for their roles. Except for Huntelaar, there's no-one even in the vicinity of their qualities.

@ DD

If Van Bommel's and Ruud's snubbing would cost them in the end, none of us have got a crystal ball, but the odds are massively in their favour. First of it didn't have to come to this, and its the manager's fault. They aren't not crap, like San Marco and pops Cruijff are trying to convince people. Blaming those two for our WC exit (!) is very lame. And just look at what Van Basten brings into our team (instead), dire utility players who are rightfully benched at their own clubs - who've failed on each and every chance they get in Oranje. Who are in fact more to blame for us underachieving in the past 6 months.

I'm not having a dig at you, but can you expand on this .. Huntelaar has 'come' in for RVN? and he is no utility player who is 'benched' at his club .. etc

The pressure has been Van Basten for a while. And he has not delivered, nor in play, in tournaments (lowest position in since WC90), results (Luxembourg !), and we have been playing some of, if not the ugliest football since 1970 - that's over 35 years!!!

Most people also see the obvious kinks in the system (continued sticking by Heitinga). You can hear boos, jeering and whistling from our fans now too. In our last game we played there were - for the very first time in all those years I've seen Oranje play at home (or even away) - empty seats for our fans. And plenty of them, massive gaps at Phillips stadium.

Few will look at this situation as anything else than that San Marco has brought onto himself.

When the bannings were first anounced, Edwin van Der Sar, our captain, even said in the press that he can't imagine why Van Basten had done it, and he didn't agree with the decsion. I bet, I know even he is regretting to not retire straight away, like he intended. He only came back because he thought he could win something (EC08). No one wants to be associated with this foul sinking ship.

DD, I'm actually agreeing with you on this. I can fully understand Van Bommel's and Ruud's decision. The way they were treated by "San Marco" was very poor, so it's an admirable step by them indeed, and rather uncommon these days with all those spineless "professionals" around.
And like I said repeatedly, both still could help Oranje, as could players like Davids, for example.

But do you really think that the Dutch public will be so forgiving, and more importantly, so insightful and well informed like you and other members on this board are? I'm rather sceptical on this. People tend to forget the difficulties once their team is successful. And remember how the "generation of losers" (Seedorf and co.) was treated by the public afterwards.
Some narrow minded people might see them as 'traitors' even.

But time will tell. San Marco's 'weird' decisions are going to hurt him sooner or later anyway. It's just a matter of time.

We criticise players like Wesley Sneijder and don't give him a chance (maybe its San Marcos fault for not playing him in his favoured position..)

Maybe the only solution is for San Marco to step down .. i can see him succeeding at club level...