Oranje Thread

Koevermans almost with the assist but Kuyt fucked it up.

Since 1888 wrote:Koevermans almost with the assist but Kuyt fucked it up.

Why on Earth did he wait so long before he brought on Koevermans ?!

....and why at the expense of a winger ?!

There were loads of good crosses wasted because there wasn't a good target man in the box.

Would he have played with Robben and Babel on the wings, Kuyt *and* Koevermans up front we would have slaughtered them for sure.

Van Basten gave up our midfield anyway by playing lightweights there : let's give it up completely and play 4-2-4. At least we'd score some goals that way....

Every single striker under Van Basten has failed, *every* single one of them.

Ghee, seems like dropping Van Nistelrooij really solved our problems

Rai Krol wrote:

If you was in San Marcos shoes, what would be your 1st XI .. if every eligible Dutch player was available?

Pfft, lots of possibilities : we actually do have loads of talent...


Van der Sar

Kromkamp - Stam - Opdam - De Cler

Afellay - De Zeeuw - Emanuelson

--------- Van der Vaart

--------- Kuyt - Van Persie


Might be too attacking, with too little control in midfield : in that case I'd play Heitinga for VDV and make it a real 4-4-2.

All players will work and do defending duties (only VDV and Van Persie are exempt). We will have controll in midfield, win duels and the second ball.

Kromkamp, Afellay, De Cler and Emanuelson all can switch between attacking and defending.

@ Axe

No Khalid? apart from that a very good side.


btw, i'd have

----------------- van der Sar

-------------------- Khalid
-- Kromkamp --------------------- de Cler
------------------- Mendes
---------- Schaars* ------- De Zeeuw
--------------------- VDV
----- van Persie -------------- Robben
----------------- Koevermans

* or Afellay

Rai Krol wrote:@ Axe

No Khalid? apart from that a very good side.

Loads of players who could/should make the cut.

In my team there's no place for :

Boulah, Mathijssen, Jaliens, Schaars, Seedorf, Huntelaar, Van Bommel, Babel, Jenner, Sneijder, Mendes da Silva, Vennegoor, Koevermans, Van Nistelrooij and Robben

to name a few, they're all A-class material though

You're right, we can have a A team and B team .. played in the right way.

Urghh... I just came back today since last week.

I can't be bothered to waste too many words on both performances, but what was Van Basten thinking?

I was waving white handkerchiefs after every game. Met someone in the pub who went to the Romania game and he said there were alot of white handkerchiefs but NONE were shown on TV.


Sending De Cler home, not playing Boulah, playing Urby, playing Huntelaar when Kuyt was the better option, playing Kuyt when Huntelaar was the better option. The fun never ends.

And how can Sneijder turn to shit every time he's in the orange kit?

DD wrote:
And how can Sneijder turn to shit every time he's in the orange kit?

He obviously needs players beside him to do the dirty work (same as Pirlo, Ronaldinho and Zidane) and Van Basten doesn't do that, so he'll never be effective or be able to play his "normal" game.

You can't even blame Wesley for that.

What *does* surprise me every time, is that his set pieces also turn to rubbish whenever he plays in Oranje.

He does them excellent for Ajax and in Oranje he can't even kick a decent corner !

Must have something to do with Marco overloading the players with instructions and the insane amount of pressure that's now on the team.

The sending home of Landzaat, Jaliens en De Cler is insane on it's self....but if you look at the signal it's sending to the other players and the pressure it's putting them under : it's criminally insane !

Marco Raus !

I thought the midfield against Slovenia was playing quite well including Sneijder. Afellay and van Bronckhorst (i didn't expect he was good in it) were doing the dirty work for Sneijder. Sneijder only missed 10 chances!

Also against Russia Sneijder played a superb game so I can't see why people are saying he can't play well in a Van Basten team!

He was against Romania utter crap but that had to do with the wrong line up plus no movement on the pitch!

His set pieces were abysmal, and only the other week he was knocking them in and made it look easy. Sneijder was the invisible man in both games, I only knew he was playing when he hoofed a ball in the backrow and realised no substitutions haven't been made.

Landzaat, to be fair, is a decent midfield backup (in time of need). He's good to have if you need penalties, but that's it. He isn't Oranje material, certainly not starting, and never was. When you have a balanced team, you can introduce a player like Landzaat. Otherwise don't bother. The current is NOT BALANCED, so Landzaat shouldn't even have a look in.
Danny Landzaat, however, cannot be blamed. It was Van Basten who ALWAYS selected him, and always put him in the starting XI. Landzaat had to work by himself, in an abysmal Oranje, and how he got blamed for doing what he did, isn't fair either.

Van Basten's Oranje is the Monster of Frankenstein.

We have a wealth of players to our disposal to make a great, balanced killer team in all departments. Yet people like Urby are playing. And everyone else out of position.

Van Basten also has the knack to waste VDV: giving him useless assignments as to play on the RW or even defense! He is usefull when played in the hole or #10 with a free role otherwise just play someone else.
And I thought I was going to have a heartattack, Babel on RW! he isn't even outstanding on LW! If he's cutting in everytime on the LW, what did you expect from Babel on the RW!? No shit, he was also cutting in there.

Ricardo Jol wrote:I thought the midfield against Slovenia was playing quite well including Sneijder. Afellay and van Bronckhorst (i didn't expect he was good in it) were doing the dirty work for Sneijder. Sneijder only missed 10 chances!

Also against Russia Sneijder played a superb game so I can't see why people are saying he can't play well in a Van Basten team!

He was against Romania utter crap but that had to do with the wrong line up plus no movement on the pitch!

Who's fault is that!?

BTW, the best player of the Slovenian team plays the German Bundesliga second division.

Oh the good times.


PS I hated it that Affelay had to amke his debut in such a shit game. He was one of the few shining lights though.

I've said it time and time again, Sneijder is not good enough to start for Oranje .. van Basten does not see this and its best for him to leave ..

Well... Sneijder is good enough to start for Oranje - so is VDV, and he's more talented and can do more. The problem is, so far that is, you can't start both and have them nullify another.
Reality is, having VDV and Sneijder is a luxury problem.

Huntelaar is also good enough for Oranje, but (despite having 19 goals) not good enough to be the default choice for Oranje.
Urby should be thrown on the scrap heap, so Maduro and Heitinga.

Babel has become (even more) redundant for Oranje. He needs to make leaps and bounds in development, both in form, consistancy and versatility to have a place over: RVN, RVP, Makaay, Vennegoor of Hesselink, Kuyt, Huntelaar - all of whom are better. And with the emergence of Koevermans, Babel shouldn't even get a look in. Koevermans is great and versitile.
The reality is that Babel takes the place of a good spare winger/utility man (Jenner, Castelen etc?). Strikers we have enough of. And Babel is too allround, jack of a couple of trades, but doesn't excell in any. No place for Oranje's Anelka here.

Van der Vaart must start.

as you say and everyone .. Sneijder + VDV cannot play in the same team

Sneijder can be a capable substitute, van Basten keeps playing him will only 'enhance' his ego and then when dropped .. problems.

DD wrote:

Ricardo Jol wrote:I thought the midfield against Slovenia was playing quite well including Sneijder. Afellay and van Bronckhorst (i didn't expect he was good in it) were doing the dirty work for Sneijder. Sneijder only missed 10 chances!

Also against Russia Sneijder played a superb game so I can't see why people are saying he can't play well in a Van Basten team!

He was against Romania utter crap but that had to do with the wrong line up plus no movement on the pitch!

Who's fault is that!?

BTW, the best player of the Slovenian team plays the German Bundesliga second division.

Oh the good times.


PS I hated it that Affelay had to amke his debut in such a shit game. He was one of the few shining lights though.

Italy lost two years ago from Slovenia so it doesn't say it all! But when you create 10 chances how can you play rubbish? It wasn't superb but it wasn't also as bad as you guys make me believe!

Is Sneijder + Van Der Vaart, your version of Gerrard + Lampard then?

Ricardo Jol wrote:

DD wrote:

Ricardo Jol wrote:I thought the midfield against Slovenia was playing quite well including Sneijder. Afellay and van Bronckhorst (i didn't expect he was good in it) were doing the dirty work for Sneijder. Sneijder only missed 10 chances!

Also against Russia Sneijder played a superb game so I can't see why people are saying he can't play well in a Van Basten team!

He was against Romania utter crap but that had to do with the wrong line up plus no movement on the pitch!

Who's fault is that!?

BTW, the best player of the Slovenian team plays the German Bundesliga second division.

Oh the good times.


PS I hated it that Affelay had to amke his debut in such a shit game. He was one of the few shining lights though.

Italy lost two years ago from Slovenia so it doesn't say it all! But when you create 10 chances how can you play rubbish? It wasn't superb but it wasn't also as bad as you guys make me believe!

Ricky, I honestly don't believe you've seen that game. Or at least the first half.

And stop making excuses.

Parks lives wrote:Is Sneijder + Van Der Vaart, your version of Gerrard + Lampard then?

Sort of but less clearcut.
Gerrard + Lampard, talented arguably WC attacking gritty midfielder + selfish passenger who doesn't know what else to do with a ball than hoof it, whilst stifling and congesting the midfield.

VDV is a creative #10, attacking, end product and arguably WC - think Begrkamp crossed with Gerrard, but less of a headless chicken.
Sneijder = Deco. Distributor of the game, creative and with a better long range shot than Lampard.

Yet both players work at their best in the hole. But often neither are played there (VDV RW and Sneijder DM/LM). As a result neither are playing optimal, neither can perform the assigned duties properly and can be expected to. So in fact you're wasting two great players and in the process also two other spots in the squad jeopardising the game. And not to mention predictably horrible to watch.

Its Van Basten that's the problem.


In the Gerrard-Lampard case its clear that Lampard has to be dropped to get the most out of the whole squad, or shape the team around him.
With VDV-Sneijder, I wouldn't mind either. Both are good enough, but watching VDV is way more attractive. And he's also more talented.

@ DD

With VDV-Sneijder, I wouldn't mind either. Both are good enough, but watching VDV is way more attractive. And he's also more talented.

I agree .. VDV is the more talented and has the better potential, but is unfair on Sneijder to used 'VDV' as the standard

Sneijder has 'grown up' this season .. and is telling all of us 'things will get better' .. van Basten must not destroy him.

The MOTHER of all Breaks: Sneijderman & De Hunter Connection - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M81LfNn8Gs

plus VDV really loves his MacDonald's like Frank

DD wrote:
And I thought I was going to have a heartattack, Babel on RW! he isn't even outstanding on LW! If he's cutting in everytime on the LW, what did you expect from Babel on the RW!? No shit, he was also cutting in there.

Finally he could play Kuyt again in a position where he played him in the WC 2006 qualifying campaign....when Oranje was at least looking like a balanced side.

But "NO, if I don't let Kuyt play LW I'm gonna make him lone central striker with no one around him"

It's not like there's a Dutch player ON FIRE at RW at the moment or so....

JULIAN JENNER, you dickhead of a Van Basten, is outplaying the stars in the sky (Dutch expression) at the moment !

You've played everyone and his dog in Oranje...and Sno and Van den Bergh, so why not Jenner ?!

Van Basten is driving me insane, I think I'm going to support the Northern Irish in stead

me = glory hunter

I honestly think he just wants to do the opposite then what the rest of the country wants, just to be....different. I think he likes this!

Look his record is pretty good, but arent Cruyff and van Bastard the ones that WANT to play good football instead of "resultaatvoetbal"!!

After two years, the team is still playing very dire, only Rvp brought flashes of joy into the team! VDV should stop getting injured, it gets annoying now.

DD wrote:

Ricardo Jol wrote:

DD wrote:

Ricardo Jol wrote:I thought the midfield against Slovenia was playing quite well including Sneijder. Afellay and van Bronckhorst (i didn't expect he was good in it) were doing the dirty work for Sneijder. Sneijder only missed 10 chances!

Also against Russia Sneijder played a superb game so I can't see why people are saying he can't play well in a Van Basten team!

He was against Romania utter crap but that had to do with the wrong line up plus no movement on the pitch!

Who's fault is that!?

BTW, the best player of the Slovenian team plays the German Bundesliga second division.

Oh the good times.


PS I hated it that Affelay had to amke his debut in such a shit game. He was one of the few shining lights though.

Italy lost two years ago from Slovenia so it doesn't say it all! But when you create 10 chances how can you play rubbish? It wasn't superb but it wasn't also as bad as you guys make me believe!

Ricky, I honestly don't believe you've seen that game. Or at least the first half.

And stop making excuses.

In the first half one thing went terribly wrong and that was that Bronckhorst and Afellay were playing too much wide so the Slovenians could walk easily through the centre! But at least we kept the ball on the midfield this time

The second half Van Bronckhorst and Afellay played more in a central position after losing the ball. After that the team was standing allright. The two chances Slovenia got in that second half were individual mistakes by Bouma and Mathijsen (that can happen when you play far from your own goal). Van Gaal always learnt us, individual mistakes can always happen but doesn't say anything about if the system works!

So I am not making excuses but that game was not that bad. I have never seen a Dutch team that played well in an away game at the Balkan.

Romania was another story! Almost everything went wrong in that game! Also Van Basten was a lot to blame for that result! The line up was wrong, Jaliens had to Heitinga and VDV had to be Seedorf or Afellay. Sneijder and VdV cannot play together in the midfield. Landzaat could have been De Zeeuw. The subs were wrong because he didn't bring Koevermans into the game. We could have played more the long ball then at the end! Also Van Basten lacks the psychological skills to "pep" a team "up".

Two great videos about the young talent of Oranje :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZtbmjVouUU&mode=related&search=

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uciC5fo8hCM&mode=related&search=

Somebody should shoot this Kesler cunt :

'Marco en John nog geen drie jaar bezig, wellicht te vroeg automatismen te verwachten'

Henk Kesler, directeur betaald voetbal KNVB, over het Nederlands elftal (www.knvb.nl)

If it wasn't about something as important as football that would be quite funny

Kessler has been brown nosing Van Basten ever since his appointment - so bad its unreal. Absolute bollocks of course.

All previous managers achieved more, with better football, whilst not sabotaging the team, ignoring talented youngsters, prefering club chums and boycotting quality players.
All previous managers also had less time to prove themselves, and if not we're shown the door.

Ruud is still thinking about Oranje....

Code:

 Ruud van Nistelrooy denkt nog aan Oranje

7/4/2007  14:15

In een interview met De Telegraaf zegt Ruud van Nistelrooy dat hij nog steeds een belangrijke rol kan vervullen in het Nederlands elftal.

In de discussie over bondscoach Marco van Basten kiest Van Nistelrooy zorgvuldig zijn woorden. 'Van Basten is hier geweest om in de eerste plaats het verleden af te sluiten, zoals zijn kritiek op mij in het openbaar en de twijfels die er waren gerezen. Vond ik een goed idee.'

'Maar ik wilde ook graag iets horen met betrekking tot de toekomst. Garanties kan ik niet geven, zei hij. Ik doe dit lang genoeg om te weten dat een coach dat inderdaad niet kan. Ik eis ook geen basisplaats, ik hoef niks. Ik wilde gewoon horen dat hij het weer zag zitten, dat de samenwerking weer tot iets zou kunnen leiden. Dan garandeer je toch niks?'

'Ik denk dat ik nog steeds een belangrijke rol kan vervullen in de jeugdige selectie. Ik draai al jaren mee. Ik heb Van Basten nog een keer gebeld en gezegd: ik wil voelen en merken dat het goed is. Anders begin ik er niet aan. Met Van Basten kun je die gesprekken wel voeren. Als je weet dat iemand keihard is, neem je die moeite niet.'

'In tegenstelling tot wat veel mensen denken, is Van Basten niet hard. Ik vind hem wel rigoureus. Ik had dat goede gevoel gewoon nodig, want ik zag wat er met Mark van Bommel gebeurde. Twee keer weggeweest en teruggekomen. Het heeft nooit meer gewerkt.'

http://www.vi.nl/vi/show/id=62802/contentid=91540/sc=934ed6

Ricardo Jol wrote:Ruud is still thinking about Oranje....

Exactly what I've said before :

Ruud = Topper
Marco = Flopper


Marco Raus !

How about Mark Van Bommel's article in the VI?

http://www.vi.nl/vi/show/id=62802/contentid=91825/msnhome=true/sc=0e3c70

That he never thanked for playing in Oranje, but only under Van Basten - and that Van Basten has been lying about everything else; about talking to him, about discussing things on and off the pitch. Van Bommel also gives swipes at Van Basten for his lack of consistancy, his hypocritical aproach, favoratism over 'certain' players (Ajax chums) and much more. Why Seedorf has only recently been chosen (only after Sno), why Makaay still isn't called up, touching upon the public ridiculing off experienced players (e.g., Davids) etc.

My ony critcism is that he waited too long to come out with this. Hey, at least someone's a gentleman.

Rumour has it, Van Basten latest appearance/interview at Studio Voetbal prompted Van Bommel to go public as it was the last straw for him - Van Basten once more lying about him in public and distorting the truth.


RAUS!

MVB=c**t

I thought England had drama.