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    La Liga run-in

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    Post by toon h Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:30 pm

    at Skybet:

    Barcelona 1/8
    Sevilla 10/1
    Madrid 10/1
    Valencia 20/1

    good odds on Valencia tbh.
    even if Barcelona are favourite the odds are too bad to put money on them at that rate.
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    Post by NCFC Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:35 pm

    I think that is fantastic odds on all three "outsiders" tbh. Might have a bet on los che in particular after seeing that. The bookies simply know that people are going to put money on Barca in this country after seeing what they can do in the Chmapions League over the past few seasons. After the defeat to Chelsea no money is being put on Valencia I guess, hence the long odds.
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    Post by Oleguerisntthatbad Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:35 pm

    zen and the art of wrote:
    kas wrote:
    Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:
    nCfC-CaDiZ wrote:Why can Luis not stand Barca?

    Because we question Liverpool's entertainment value, I think..

    Plus I laughed when he was talking about signing Eto'o and I explained that Liverpool isn't really seen as a massive club in Spain. More like England's answer to Atlético, with an added sprinkling of Spanish influence.. Burst his bubble..


    He still firmly believes Liverpool will sign one of Etoo or Villa this summer. Not saying it can't happen (and I'm only referring to Villa here) but that's quite a dream.

    He carries on because you lot naively dismiss the very notion out of hand. Eto'o and Villa (particularly the later) have been continually linked with us since the turn of the year yet you lot dismiss the notion out of hand. Oli even went as far as to say that we have no more pulling power for the average Spaniard than Zaragoza would have to the average Brit. Now comparing us with Atletico Madrid...

    Perhaps if you actually entertained the possibility that a player who is continually being linked with a move, who is clearly (even if instances are over exaggerated) causing disturbance within the dressing room, could just be on the move to England and we're England's biggest club.

    You lot seem content to bury your heads in the sand as much as you say Luis is doing the same.

    Why would he leave Barcelona for the team that just knocked them out of Europe, having already won all there is to in Spain?

    Why would Villa move to a club at which he has 2 very good friends of his (Aurelio, Reina), whose ground he visited on new years day? A Club whom it is widely regarded are just seeking a player in Villa's position, of Villa's calibre, to compete seriously at the top of the league?


    Chelsea's sole pulling power when they were taken over by Abrahamovich was that they had lots of money and they were in the capital. Ours is that we have lots of money (supposedly) and we're England's most successful club.

    You're right though, we're the equvilent to Atletico and Zaragoza. Far behind the mighty Barcelona and Madrid, who can pick the players they sign at a whim. Just look at Ronaldo Rolling Eyes

    As if you have never had an agenda regarding Barcelona Rolling Eyes

    It is quite impressive but my dislike of Liverpool stems mainly from 6 months of your complaining about our side.. Barcelona is boring, Barcelona couldn't even beat Bolton etc etc..

    Still the Atlético remark is a fact, and if you don't won't to accept it, then too bad. I said a million times, that, personally, I thought it was stupid but I can't help what the average perception in Spain is..
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    Post by toon h Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:56 pm

    nCfC-CaDiZ wrote:I think that is fantastic odds on all three "outsiders" tbh. Might have a bet on los che in particular after seeing that. The bookies simply know that people are going to put money on Barca in this country after seeing what they can do in the Chmapions League over the past few seasons. After the defeat to Chelsea no money is being put on Valencia I guess, hence the long odds.

    I might put money on all 3 with those odds (if I were a gambling man). I would still hope Barça would win it, but even if they don't I would at least get some money out of it.
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    Post by NCFC Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:00 pm

    I think it is important to remember that Oleguer's use of the word "perception" is just referring to the general view of Spanish people. He has not mentioned the size or the history of the club.

    I have read various things which make me think that the Villa deal could happen. I think also Valencia may have it in their heads that it would be time to cash in and build their squad into a European power rather than a technically gifted team with a star striker.

    The one thing that separates Liverpool from Atletico is money. The Spanish players already at the club would perhaps have some sort of pulling player for Spaniards like Villa though. The same if Atletico had English players perhaps?

    I still find the Eto'o rumours laughable but we shall see.
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    Post by NCFC Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:02 pm

    toon h wrote:
    nCfC-CaDiZ wrote:I think that is fantastic odds on all three "outsiders" tbh. Might have a bet on los che in particular after seeing that. The bookies simply know that people are going to put money on Barca in this country after seeing what they can do in the Chmapions League over the past few seasons. After the defeat to Chelsea no money is being put on Valencia I guess, hence the long odds.

    I might put money on all 3 with those odds (if I were a gambling man). I would still hope Barça would win it, but even if they don't I would at least get some money out of it.

    Spot on. Although I would like to see Valencia win in an ideal situation Ale.
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    Post by golsud Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:09 pm

    I'm starting to dislike Liverpool as well thanks to their "online" fans. Their real fans are great, some even agreed with me that Gerrard is a diver.
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    Post by Oleguerisntthatbad Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:25 pm

    So any Madridistas worrying about the CL spots?? Very Happy

    3 points right? and an away game against Zaragoza...
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    Post by Jaime Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:36 pm

    I'm hoping we can at least hang on for Intertoto. Wink
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    Post by Riviera Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:37 pm

    ohh Very Happy

    you're mentioning smth important here Oleguerisntthatgreat, imagine CL without RM, hih Smile

    well, it would be nice next year or any later year to have an el clasico'ish in CL.
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    Post by Jaime Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:42 pm

    Every year I think we have reached the absolute lowest point...but I suppose missing the CL would be a new all-time low.
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    Post by Super Progress Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:50 pm

    if we miss out on the title i would like us to miss cl and uefa football. cl football is too much presure when building a team. about the title match nothing is lost because next week barca lose and madrid wins and people are saying new things. right now its to close and teams are too inconsistent to say anything.
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    Post by Jaime Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:51 pm

    supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:if we miss out on the title i would like us to miss cl and uefa football. cl football is too much presure when building a team. about the title match nothing is lost because next week barca lose and madrid wins and people are saying new things. right now its to close and teams are too inconsistent to say anything.

    I can't take the roller coaster...
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    Post by Super Progress Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:54 pm

    Jaime wrote:
    supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:if we miss out on the title i would like us to miss cl and uefa football. cl football is too much presure when building a team. about the title match nothing is lost because next week barca lose and madrid wins and people are saying new things. right now its to close and teams are too inconsistent to say anything.

    I can't take the roller coaster...
    it is getting tiring. this is the worst la liga season i can remember because its almost like teams dont want to win it. the winner whoever it may be can celebrate but i will have a hard time getting really happy like i did in 2003.
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    Post by Super Progress Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:59 pm

    Phil Ball

    It's been a juicy week for La Liga's football followers, with sparks flying left, right and centre. Let's start in Europe.



    In midweek, Valencia bowed out of the Champions League after an excellent game against Chelsea in the Mestalla, the London club's win being the first time in 40 years that a side from England's shores has won in Valencia.

    Three English sides (Chelsea, Man Utd and Liverpool) then took their place in the semi-finals of the Champions League, sparking much comment from the European press, and from Richard Scudamore, the Premier League's chief executive, who crowed loudly that this was proof that the English top flight was now the best in Europe.

    Well, maybe so. He needs something to cheer about, after the national team's appalling performances and the farcical process of electing a manager who everyone knew wasn't up to it. But this takes nothing away from Man Utd's annihilation of Roma, Chelsea's brave and astute performance in Valencia and Liverpool's pummelling of a poor-looking PSV side, who had nevertheless knocked out Arsenal in the previous round.

    But does this mean that the power base of European football has shifted from La Liga to England, with even Cristiano Ronaldo apparently immune to the temptations on offer at either Barcelona or Madrid - both of whom were counting their money last week in an attempt to see if they could afford to really stump up a bid? And with Eto'o and Villa allegedly on their way to the Premiership, maybe Scudamore had a point.

    I suppose that in the year 2000, when Real Madrid, Valencia and Barcelona all made the semis, it was easy to come to the same conclusion about La Liga's dominance, or even Italy's in 2003 when they had three representatives at that stage too. But there seems to have been little comment on the equally significant fact that Spain has three sides in the UEFA semi finals. It leads to the inevitable question - what is the true litmus-test of a league's strength - its biggest sides or its middling sides?

    The UEFA Cup seems to be picking up in both quality and spectacle, and whereas some years ago few people seemed to take much interest, things have changed. Television has jumped back onto its bandwagon, and teams now see it rather like the play-offs in the lower divisions. It's something to aim for, something to keep the season alive. It's almost as if there has been a grudging acceptance that the Champions League is for a select coterie of clubs, with the occasional disturbance from the margins - like Villarreal's amazing achievement last season.

    Indeed, a more cynical view of this year's semi-finals might be to view them as the four richest clubs in the world, perhaps with the noble exception of Liverpool who began the season under 'normal' ownership. Berlusconi, Abramovich and the Glazers. Welcome to sporting democracy! Well ok - it's neither the players' nor the fans' fault that this is the case, and Real Madrid and Barcelona aren't exactly paupers on the world's stage. But when you take a look at the UEFA, things are rather more interesting, from a purely sporting point of view.

    Osasuna and Espanyol are very bog-standard sides in Spanish terms, although Espanyol have had some success in Europe before. Sevilla won the UEFA last year, and are still challenging for La Liga's title, but in strictly statistical terms have not won the national title since 1946. Hardly a major force, although always a prominent and feared side.

    Osasuna's 0-3 win at Bayer Leverkusen was much more significant than Liverpool's win at PSV, and almost matched Man Utd's win over Roma for surprise value. Espanyol had Benfica on the ropes in Barcleona in the first leg, only to give away a 3-0 lead (to 3-2) and endanger their chances of getting through in Portugal. The fact that they made it is remarkable, though they rode their luck at times.

    Sevilla v Tottenham, however, was symbolic of the issue. Spurs were a shade unlucky in Seville, and played well in London too (in patches), but as sides of similar status (if one takes away Spurs' golden years) La Liga's representatives looked too canny for the English side. In the end Sevilla had more on offer, just as middle-ground Spain has more to offer than does the Premiership. The fact that Reading have done so well this season in England is also a testament to the Premiership - but it depends how you look at it. Reading haven't made the UEFA yet, and if they do, how will they fare?

    The fact that Barcelona and Real Madrid have looked more human in the last few years in La Liga is surely due to the competitiveness that abounds there - witness Santander's win on Saturday night and Barcelona's struggle to beat lowly Mallorca the next evening. The gap between the top three/four in Spain and the rest is a big one, but it is surely not as immense as the chasm that separates Man Utd and Chelsea from the rest. Scudamore should think twice before opening his mouth again on this issue. Middle England still looks pretty poor to me. Middle Spain looks in good health.

    There are other matters in Spain, however, that could do with a medical check-up. One of them is the eternal conspiracy theory about referees.


    Last weekend, Valencia decided to only field two of the players who had played at Chelsea, resting the squad for the second leg. The game was at Athletic Bilbao - this season's poorest home side. Bilbao won the game, much to the chagrin of the other sides who are involved in the relegation struggle (another increasingly annoying consequence of the overbearing importance of the Champions League) in what looked at first to be a game that Valencia were almost throwing, as if they were more confident of knocking out Chelsea and continuing in Europe than they were of still challenging Barcelona for the Spanish title.

    But this ignores the fact that the referee, Mejuto Gonzalez, seemed to favour the struggling home side, awarding them a largesse of free-kicks and ignoring two clear penalty appeals for fouls on Valencia's winger David Silva. Even this would have passed unnoticed had the referee not been recorded by the TV cameras in the tunnel before the game, chatting to Bilbao's Joseba Exteberría.

    'So you lost last week eh?' opens Mejuto, conversationally.

    'Yeah - again!' says Exteberría.

    'You've got a tricky run-in eh? ' says Mejuto (as if he's studied it). Etxeberría nods. 'Don't worry' says Mejuto soothingly. 'You'll stay up'.

    Now imagine if Mourinho had heard this. Quique Sánchez Flores of course hadn't, until well after the match, but even before he had the insults were flying - the Valencia manager accusing the referee of blatantly favouring Bilbao, of deliberately messing up Valencia's title challenge and of never doing Valencia any favours (although the statistics don't confirm this).

    Mejuto is an Asturian, and therefore the usual conspiracies about regional favouritism do not apply here in any significant sense, but of course, the whole issue has blown up in Angel María Villar's face - President of the FEF (Spanish Football Federation) for the past 19 years and born and bred in Bilbao. He even played for them, and for Spain (22 times), but has never been exactly a trusted figure. His own unfortunate confession to journalists only last week that he also thought that Bilbao would stay up has only made matters worse.

    Not that the rest of Spain is clamouring for Athletic's relegation. Far from it. They have never been out of the top flight, a remarkable record that is worth the preserving. But as Head of the Referees Commission too, Villar should really be more discreet, and should surely have stepped in to tick off Mejuto for his own indiscretion - innocent though it probably was. In a country where everyone is assumed corrupt until proved otherwise, largely because people see this as a perfectly normal state of affairs, football is the only area where a whiff of skulduggery will bring out the moral majority.

    The inevitable domino effect has been incurred. On Saturday night, Madrid's Director of Football, Predrag Mijatovic, used the classic phrase 'Estan pasando cosas raras' (Strange things are happening), a sentence always wheeled out when the speaker wishes to imply conspiracy, without saying anything that could otherwise end him up in court. Turienzo Alavarés had just awarded Racing de Santander two penalties and sent off two Real Madrid players, condemning them to a 2-1 defeat in fortress Santander and robbing them of a deserved victory - for a change.

    They actually played quite well, and the first penalty was certainly a mistake. The second, where Cannavaro bear hugged the mighty Zigic, looked more like the real thing, but Madrid were incandescent with rage, finally finding an excuse to justify their inability to catch Barcelona and hiding the fact that Capello once again played it too conservatively, failing to really go for the throat and get the second goal that would have killed the game off. But hey, Zapatero's the Prime Minister, and he's a Barça fan. Matter closed, obviously.

    It's not all over yet, but with Sevilla losing at Valencia, Barcelona just seem to stay up there, despite all the rumours of back-biting and an alleged player diaspora this coming summer. That doesn't reflect too well on La Liga, I have to admit.
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    Post by fcb Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:33 am

    Good article from him again, though I do think the ref's comments to the Bilbao player were innocent.

    The bookies must be utterly clueless to offer 20/1 on Valencia but 10/1 on Madrid and Sevilla. If anything, Valencia have got to be the favourites to challenge us since they actually are a good team (unlike Madrid) and have only the Liga to concentrate on (unlike us and Sevilla).
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    Post by Jaime Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:44 am

    @kas

    Great sig! Laugh
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    Post by fcb Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:08 am

    Yours too ok Wink
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    Post by NCFC Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:03 am

    16/1 from William Hill which is the closest bookies to where I live. I don't know whether it is worth searching around for the best odds. Definitely putting money on los che though.
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    Post by toon h Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:32 am

    my personal odds for each:

    Barcelona - 35%
    Sevilla - 23%
    Real Madrid - 22%
    Valencia - 20%

    roughly, that is and subject to change as every league round unfolds.
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    Post by Jaime Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:00 pm

    I don't rate our chances...or Sevilla's really. I think Valencia could get back into it but they will need Barcelona to slip up quite a bit. Their very poor start is coming back to haunt them.
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    Post by EMP Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:11 pm

    kas wrote:
    Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:
    nCfC-CaDiZ wrote:Why can Luis not stand Barca?

    Because we question Liverpool's entertainment value, I think..

    Plus I laughed when he was talking about signing Eto'o and I explained that Liverpool isn't really seen as a massive club in Spain. More like England's answer to Atlético, with an added sprinkling of Spanish influence.. Burst his bubble..


    He still firmly believes Liverpool will sign one of Etoo or Villa this summer. Not saying it can't happen (and I'm only referring to Villa here) but that's quite a dream.


    Mad Villa is not for sale unless extremely stupid money is offered, or we collapse so badly that we don't get European football next season. I believe he has signed a contract extension that involves a huge buy-out clause. Why should we sell him unless it makes sense for us? Not even Carboni is stupid enoiugh to sell a great player for less than he is worth.
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    Post by EMP Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:18 pm

    zen and the art of wrote:
    kas wrote:
    Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:
    nCfC-CaDiZ wrote:Why can Luis not stand Barca?

    Because we question Liverpool's entertainment value, I think..

    Plus I laughed when he was talking about signing Eto'o and I explained that Liverpool isn't really seen as a massive club in Spain. More like England's answer to Atlético, with an added sprinkling of Spanish influence.. Burst his bubble..


    He still firmly believes Liverpool will sign one of Etoo or Villa this summer. Not saying it can't happen (and I'm only referring to Villa here) but that's quite a dream.

    He carries on because you lot naively dismiss the very notion out of hand. Eto'o and Villa (particularly the later) have been continually linked with us since the turn of the year yet you lot dismiss the notion out of hand. Oli even went as far as to say that we have no more pulling power for the average Spaniard than Zaragoza would have to the average Brit. Now comparing us with Atletico Madrid...

    Perhaps if you actually entertained the possibility that a player who is continually being linked with a move, who is clearly (even if instances are over exaggerated) causing disturbance within the dressing room, could just be on the move to England and we're England's biggest club.

    You lot seem content to bury your heads in the sand as much as you say Luis is doing the same.

    Why would he leave Barcelona for the team that just knocked them out of Europe, having already won all there is to in Spain?

    Why would Villa move to a club at which he has 2 very good friends of his (Aurelio, Reina), whose ground he visited on new years day? A Club whom it is widely regarded are just seeking a player in Villa's position, of Villa's calibre, to compete seriously at the top of the league?

    Because Valencia doesn't have to sell unless it is in our interests to do so. We are not going to give him away just because Liverpool want him. It has to be in our interests to sell him. And that goes for anyone else interested in him as well. You might get him, but it will cost you ridiculous money. Just out of interest how much do you think it will cost you to get him?


    Chelsea's sole pulling power when they were taken over by Abrahamovich was that they had lots of money and they were in the capital. Ours is that we have lots of money (supposedly) and we're England's most successful club.

    You're right though, we're the equvilent to Atletico and Zaragoza. Far behind the mighty Barcelona and Madrid, who can pick the players they sign at a whim. Just look at Ronaldo Rolling Eyes
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    Post by EMP Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:21 pm

    Sorry Zen, I thought you could reply in the middle of other people's replies by quotes. The bit below is my response.

    Because Valencia doesn't have to sell unless it is in our interests to do so. We are not going to give him away just because Liverpool want him. It has to be in our interests to sell him. And that goes for anyone else interested in him as well. You might get him, but it will cost you ridiculous money. Just out of interest how much do you think it will cost you to get him?
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    Post by zen and the art of Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:25 pm

    EMP wrote:Sorry Zen, I thought you could reply in the middle of other people's replies by quotes. The bit below is my response.

    Because Valencia doesn't have to sell unless it is in our interests to do so. We are not going to give him away just because Liverpool want him. It has to be in our interests to sell him. And that goes for anyone else interested in him as well. You might get him, but it will cost you ridiculous money. Just out of interest how much do you think it will cost you to get him?

    I'm not disagreeing with any of that mate. Though, if the player wants to leave, there's very little you can actually do these days. As for the price? I don't believe the £40m+ talk. I'll take a stab in the dark at somewhere between £27m-£33m - not sure what that is in euros.

    Maybe we could throw in Cisse to sweeten the deal Wink
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    Post by NCFC Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:26 pm

    EMP wrote:
    kas wrote:
    Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:
    nCfC-CaDiZ wrote:Why can Luis not stand Barca?

    Because we question Liverpool's entertainment value, I think..

    Plus I laughed when he was talking about signing Eto'o and I explained that Liverpool isn't really seen as a massive club in Spain. More like England's answer to Atlético, with an added sprinkling of Spanish influence.. Burst his bubble..


    He still firmly believes Liverpool will sign one of Etoo or Villa this summer. Not saying it can't happen (and I'm only referring to Villa here) but that's quite a dream.



    Mad Villa is not for sale unless extremely stupid money is offered, or we collapse so badly that we don't get European football next season. I believe he has signed a contract extension that involves a huge buy-out clause. Why should we sell him unless it makes sense for us? Not even Carboni is stupid enoiugh to sell a great player for less than he is worth.

    Say if 30-40 million was offered. Surely that would be tempting. It would allow you to build a squad that could compete with any side in Europe if in the right hands, ie: the hands of Flores not Carboni....
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    Post by Parks lives Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:27 pm

    Only Chelsea could afford that.
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    Post by NCFC Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:29 pm

    Parks lives wrote:Only Chelsea could afford that.

    So what do you think Liverpool's summer budget will be?
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    Post by zen and the art of Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:29 pm

    Parks lives wrote:Only Chelsea could afford that.

    Chelsea don't have Cisse to sweeten the deal Razz

    £27m-£33m is hardly out of the realms of possibility. It's what yous lot paid for Rooney, Veron, Rio et al.
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    Post by Parks lives Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:33 pm

    nCfC-CaDiZ wrote:
    Parks lives wrote:Only Chelsea could afford that.

    So what do you think Liverpool's summer budget will be?

    It's unknown I thought. I think the owners will provide enough funds, just whether Rafa wants to lump it all on one or two players or spread it out.

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