UEFA Cup last 32 discussion thread

I hope Everton beat us. We need to focus on the Serie A campaign, and this silly little cup just hurt us against Roma today. Our players looked tired. Prandelli takes the coppa and the uefa cup too seriously. Who cares about these trophies?? Certainly not the fans. Neither does the bank balance... so what is the point?

Ray Parlour wrote:Jeez Everton went on hard!

Fiorentina better watch out. It's a good squad Everton have!

Gigliati wrote:I hope Everton beat us. We need to focus on the Serie A campaign, and this silly little cup just hurt us against Roma today. Our players looked tired. Prandelli takes the coppa and the uefa cup too seriously. Who cares??

Ray Parlour wrote:Jeez Everton went on hard!

Fiorentina better watch out. It's a good squad Everton have!

Lots of people. Whats the point in playing for league positions 5-16? You would rather finish 4th than 6th and win a uefa cup? who really cares about a few league positions? Whats next who cares about the cl? then who cares about the league then who cares about football?

Somehow i don´t understand why some fans preffer to move up some places instead of winning silverware.
A club success is mesure by the trophies they have not if they finished 8th 4th and the like.
Even CL places are a mean to WIN stuff with the extra money.
What is the point of having a biggest budget if you win nothing?
Gigliati if Fiorentina wins the UEFA cup you get european glory don´t you want that?

Protheus wrote:Somehow i don´t understand why some fans preffer to move up some places instead of winning silverware.
A club success is mesure by the trophies they have not if they finished 8th 4th and the like.
Even CL places are a mean to WIN stuff with the extra money.
What is the point of having a biggest budget if you win nothing?
Gigliati if Fiorentina wins the UEFA cup you get european glory don´t you want that?

Protheus, the CL is an important trophy. It has a lot of prestige, and a lot of money associated with it. The UEFA Cup does not. Just like domestically, Serie A has a lot of prestige and money. Coppa does not. Its the reality of the matter. 20 years ago it was very different. Now UEFA Cup has lost its shine.

To answer lrd's question, YES. I think any sensible fan would prefer to finish 4th in Serie A, than finish 6th and win the UEFA Cup! There is no ambiguity there. Finishing 4th means CL football, Euro 10 Million guaranteed if you make the group stage, plus much more if you do better. Also, you get to see your team and players against the best in Europe. Frankly, i don't mind playing/winning the Coppa or uefa cup as long as it does not impact the competitions that really matter - Serie A and CL.

Lrd, as a ManU fan, would you prefer to win the UEFA Cup and not qualify for the CL, or would you rather screw the UEFA Cup and qualify for the CL?

Anderlecht v Bayern Munich

Munich to go through but closer than you think.

Bayer Leverkusen v Hamburg???

I'm completely ignorant about this one - Bayer played some lovely pass and move stuff v Gala but HSV have VDV ???


Bolton v Sporting

Sporting may not seem as star-studded as Atletico but they have more know-how at this level.

I only know Sporting from the last 3 seasonbs or so and some people have left but they are usually a very small side so you may expect them to struggle. However, the afore-mentioned know-how/experience + Liedson has to make them favourites - great footballing side.


Fiorentina v Everton

Tough call - Fiorentina weren't adverse to the odd long ball when Toni was there but I think they will be shocked by Everton's play.

Fiorentina should play the better football with Montolivo and Liverani but Everton can play the percentages better with their pace, strength and aggression + Arteta's set pieces.


Getafe v Benfica ???

Don't know enough about Getafe - Di Maria hit "pass of the season" v Celtic in the CL and took his goal v Nurnberg superbly and Cardozo has always impressed me as has Nelson. I would think Benfica are slight favourites ?


Marseille v Zenit St Petersburg

Don't know much about Zenit but I'll take Marseilles as they just dumped out another Russian side and Valbuena is in such great form.



Rangers v Werder Bremen

Rangers will have to keep it tight - I reckon they'll win by 1 at Ibrox but take a good hiding in the 2nd leg.



Tottenham v PSV

You have to say Spurs as Ramos knows how to win cups and they have better players but PSV are very pragmatic for a Dutch team and have plenty of CL experience but Spurs will be too much - I can't see Lazovic worrying spurs defence at all - He and Farfann are a bit lightweight.



Shame Villarreal are out as them v marseilles would have been great.

Favourites to win the comp (me, not bookies)

1. Spurs
2. Bayern/Werder
3. Everton
4. Marseilles

Jaime wrote:VAMOS EURO-GETA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

my favourites

1. bayern
2. bremen/hsv
3. tottenham/fiorentina/psv

I think the Geta-Benfica match will be absolutely brilliant...probably the most even tie of the round (even more than Fiorentina-Everton and Spurs-PSV), because both teams will be fully motivated, can play good stuff, and will want to score goals. No defensive Cr@p.

Gigliati wrote:

Protheus wrote:Somehow i don´t understand why some fans preffer to move up some places instead of winning silverware.
A club success is mesure by the trophies they have not if they finished 8th 4th and the like.
Even CL places are a mean to WIN stuff with the extra money.
What is the point of having a biggest budget if you win nothing?
Gigliati if Fiorentina wins the UEFA cup you get european glory don´t you want that?

Protheus, the CL is an important trophy. It has a lot of prestige, and a lot of money associated with it. The UEFA Cup does not. Just like domestically, Serie A has a lot of prestige and money. Coppa does not. Its the reality of the matter. 20 years ago it was very different. Now UEFA Cup has lost its shine.

To answer lrd's question, YES. I think any sensible fan would prefer to finish 4th in Serie A, than finish 6th and win the UEFA Cup! There is no ambiguity there. Finishing 4th means CL football, Euro 10 Million guaranteed if you make the group stage, plus much more if you do better. Also, you get to see your team and players against the best in Europe. Frankly, i don't mind playing/winning the Coppa or uefa cup as long as it does not impact the competitions that really matter - Serie A and CL.

Lrd, as a ManU fan, would you prefer to win the UEFA Cup and not qualify for the CL, or would you rather screw the UEFA Cup and qualify for the CL?

Ok i guess my question wasnt great because i thought only the top 3 an Italy went to the cl. So say you would finish 11th in seria a and win the uefa cup, or finish 5th surely it's the first option?
But even still it depends on the club. Obviously for Man Utd qualifying for the cl would be more important. But for Fiorentina i think winning the uefa cup would and should be more important. Look at Sevilla they won it twice and now they have a good european ranking, they are well rated everywhere and could attract very good players, and now they're doing very well in the cl.
Same with Porto they won the uefa cup and next year won the cl. If Fiorentina qualified for the cl, i think there is a good chance you would finish 3rd in the group.....and then you would go into the uefa cup anyway

L r d wrote:

Gigliati wrote:

Protheus wrote:Somehow i don´t understand why some fans preffer to move up some places instead of winning silverware.
A club success is mesure by the trophies they have not if they finished 8th 4th and the like.
Even CL places are a mean to WIN stuff with the extra money.
What is the point of having a biggest budget if you win nothing?
Gigliati if Fiorentina wins the UEFA cup you get european glory don´t you want that?

Protheus, the CL is an important trophy. It has a lot of prestige, and a lot of money associated with it. The UEFA Cup does not. Just like domestically, Serie A has a lot of prestige and money. Coppa does not. Its the reality of the matter. 20 years ago it was very different. Now UEFA Cup has lost its shine.

To answer lrd's question, YES. I think any sensible fan would prefer to finish 4th in Serie A, than finish 6th and win the UEFA Cup! There is no ambiguity there. Finishing 4th means CL football, Euro 10 Million guaranteed if you make the group stage, plus much more if you do better. Also, you get to see your team and players against the best in Europe. Frankly, i don't mind playing/winning the Coppa or uefa cup as long as it does not impact the competitions that really matter - Serie A and CL.

Lrd, as a ManU fan, would you prefer to win the UEFA Cup and not qualify for the CL, or would you rather screw the UEFA Cup and qualify for the CL?

Ok i guess my question wasnt great because i thought only the top 3 an Italy went to the cl. So say you would finish 11th in seria a and win the uefa cup, or finish 5th surely it's the first option?
But even still it depends on the club. Obviously for Man Utd qualifying for the cl would be more important. But for Fiorentina i think winning the uefa cup would and should be more important. Look at Sevilla they won it twice and now they have a good european ranking, they are well rated everywhere and could attract very good players, and now they're doing very well in the cl.
Same with Porto they won the uefa cup and next year won the cl. If Fiorentina qualified for the cl, i think there is a good chance you would finish 3rd in the group.....and then you would go into the uefa cup anyway

I find your comments very condecending, perhaps coming from your lack of knowledge of Serie A. Yes, there are 4 CL spots in Serie A, just like in EPL. Fiorentina are a big club, and last 2 seasons we have performed as well as Roma has.... even this season, we are currently 4th and can qualify for the CL... its not a question of finishing 5th or 11th, its either making the 3rd/4th spot or not. This was not a hypothetical case, its a real life scenario. Check our position in Serie A last 2 seasons, and you will see what I am talking about.

You seriously think that we cannot attract the kind of players Sevilla can? I think even without CL football we do. With CL football, we would attract even better players. As for anyways finishing 3rd in our group, that is your opinion. If Roma can negotiate it through their groups, I can't see why Fiorentina cannot.

So just because you are ManU, you can think UEFA Cup is $h!t... but Fiorentina cannot? Is that what you are saying??

Gigliati wrote:[You seriously think that we cannot attract the kind of players Sevilla can? I think even without CL football we do. With CL football, we would attract even better players.

You criticise Lrd for being condescending and then go and say that?

Gigliati wrote:

L r d wrote:

Gigliati wrote:

Protheus wrote:Somehow i don´t understand why some fans preffer to move up some places instead of winning silverware.
A club success is mesure by the trophies they have not if they finished 8th 4th and the like.
Even CL places are a mean to WIN stuff with the extra money.
What is the point of having a biggest budget if you win nothing?
Gigliati if Fiorentina wins the UEFA cup you get european glory don´t you want that?

Protheus, the CL is an important trophy. It has a lot of prestige, and a lot of money associated with it. The UEFA Cup does not. Just like domestically, Serie A has a lot of prestige and money. Coppa does not. Its the reality of the matter. 20 years ago it was very different. Now UEFA Cup has lost its shine.

To answer lrd's question, YES. I think any sensible fan would prefer to finish 4th in Serie A, than finish 6th and win the UEFA Cup! There is no ambiguity there. Finishing 4th means CL football, Euro 10 Million guaranteed if you make the group stage, plus much more if you do better. Also, you get to see your team and players against the best in Europe. Frankly, i don't mind playing/winning the Coppa or uefa cup as long as it does not impact the competitions that really matter - Serie A and CL.

Lrd, as a ManU fan, would you prefer to win the UEFA Cup and not qualify for the CL, or would you rather screw the UEFA Cup and qualify for the CL?

Ok i guess my question wasnt great because i thought only the top 3 an Italy went to the cl. So say you would finish 11th in seria a and win the uefa cup, or finish 5th surely it's the first option?
But even still it depends on the club. Obviously for Man Utd qualifying for the cl would be more important. But for Fiorentina i think winning the uefa cup would and should be more important. Look at Sevilla they won it twice and now they have a good european ranking, they are well rated everywhere and could attract very good players, and now they're doing very well in the cl.
Same with Porto they won the uefa cup and next year won the cl. If Fiorentina qualified for the cl, i think there is a good chance you would finish 3rd in the group.....and then you would go into the uefa cup anyway

I find your comments very condecending, perhaps coming from your lack of knowledge of Serie A. Yes, there are 4 CL spots in Serie A, just like in EPL. Fiorentina are a big club, and last 2 seasons we have performed as well as Roma has.... even this season, we are currently 4th and can qualify for the CL... its not a question of finishing 5th or 11th, its either making the 3rd/4th spot or not. This was not a hypothetical case, its a real life scenario. Check our position in Serie A last 2 seasons, and you will see what I am talking about.

You seriously think that we cannot attract the kind of players Sevilla can? I think even without CL football we do. With CL football, we would attract even better players. As for anyways finishing 3rd in our group, that is your opinion. If Roma can negotiate it through their groups, I can't see why Fiorentina cannot.

So just because you are ManU, you can think UEFA Cup is $h!t... but Fiorentina cannot? Is that what you are saying??

Man Utd are challenging for the league title every season, and on lots of occasions winning it. Fiorentina are not and havent for a long time. If Fiorentina are this good then why not prove it by winning the uefa cup?

I think you contradict yourself a bit also. Playing for the UEFA cup is apparently costing Fiorentina league positions but you can challenge Roma who are playing for the cl, so obviously it is effecting both teams so if you are as good then whats the problem?

Maybe it is condecending but this how it is. Fiorentina have not been in the champions league for a long time, surely to build a european reputation again it would be better to go very far in the uefa cup than to go out early lose to whoever and then maybe make the cl maybe not, and if you did make the cl there is a fair chance with the rankings that Fiorentina could finish 3rd in the group. How does this help the reputation or the ability to attract players better than the ones you can attract now? You know Lazio didn't go so well.

You can say my knowledge of seria a isnt good, but im sure lots of people if given the choice to join Sevilla or Fiorentina right now would choose Sevilla and the european success would be a major factor in that.

If Man Utd were rarely finishing in the top 4 and made the uefa cup i wouldn't think it's rubbish lets go for the cl i would want to win the uefa cup to move to that next level. I don't think it's $h!t i just think Man Utd rightfully should be going for the cl at all costs. Tottenham and Everton both will go outright to win the uefa cup and i agree with their ambition to do so.

I thought it recently got reduced from 4 to 3 obviously not, but a lot of seria a fans complain about people's lack of knowledge of the league these days, but when you see Italian teams constantly disrespecting the UEFA cup and going out to no marks and not doing well it gives the impression the league is not so strong. It doesn't help the ranking system either and then in the cl you have sometimes cases like Lazio when they also seem weak. So maybe if Fiorentina won the uefa cup people would take a whole different view.

So either way i don't see positives to abandoning the chance to win this competition

Don't underestimate PSV though, look at their experience in Europe. Sperm doesnt have that.

Imagine Ramos winning it..again! Now that would surely be a record.

Gigliati wrote:

L r d wrote:

Gigliati wrote:

Protheus wrote:Somehow i don´t understand why some fans preffer to move up some places instead of winning silverware.
A club success is mesure by the trophies they have not if they finished 8th 4th and the like.
Even CL places are a mean to WIN stuff with the extra money.
What is the point of having a biggest budget if you win nothing?
Gigliati if Fiorentina wins the UEFA cup you get european glory don´t you want that?

Protheus, the CL is an important trophy. It has a lot of prestige, and a lot of money associated with it. The UEFA Cup does not. Just like domestically, Serie A has a lot of prestige and money. Coppa does not. Its the reality of the matter. 20 years ago it was very different. Now UEFA Cup has lost its shine.

To answer lrd's question, YES. I think any sensible fan would prefer to finish 4th in Serie A, than finish 6th and win the UEFA Cup! There is no ambiguity there. Finishing 4th means CL football, Euro 10 Million guaranteed if you make the group stage, plus much more if you do better. Also, you get to see your team and players against the best in Europe. Frankly, i don't mind playing/winning the Coppa or uefa cup as long as it does not impact the competitions that really matter - Serie A and CL.

Lrd, as a ManU fan, would you prefer to win the UEFA Cup and not qualify for the CL, or would you rather screw the UEFA Cup and qualify for the CL?

Ok i guess my question wasnt great because i thought only the top 3 an Italy went to the cl. So say you would finish 11th in seria a and win the uefa cup, or finish 5th surely it's the first option?
But even still it depends on the club. Obviously for Man Utd qualifying for the cl would be more important. But for Fiorentina i think winning the uefa cup would and should be more important. Look at Sevilla they won it twice and now they have a good european ranking, they are well rated everywhere and could attract very good players, and now they're doing very well in the cl.
Same with Porto they won the uefa cup and next year won the cl. If Fiorentina qualified for the cl, i think there is a good chance you would finish 3rd in the group.....and then you would go into the uefa cup anyway

I find your comments very condecending, perhaps coming from your lack of knowledge of Serie A. Yes, there are 4 CL spots in Serie A, just like in EPL. Fiorentina are a big club, and last 2 seasons we have performed as well as Roma has.... even this season, we are currently 4th and can qualify for the CL... its not a question of finishing 5th or 11th, its either making the 3rd/4th spot or not. This was not a hypothetical case, its a real life scenario. Check our position in Serie A last 2 seasons, and you will see what I am talking about.

You seriously think that we cannot attract the kind of players Sevilla can? I think even without CL football we do. With CL football, we would attract even better players. As for anyways finishing 3rd in our group, that is your opinion. If Roma can negotiate it through their groups, I can't see why Fiorentina cannot.

So just because you are ManU, you can think UEFA Cup is $h!t... but Fiorentina cannot? Is that what you are saying??

don't worry in 2005-2006 they wish they had finished 3rd in their CL group and qualified for the uefa cup :
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/tables?league=uefa.champions&season=2005&seasonType=4&column=none&order=false

L r d wrote:

Gigliati wrote:

L r d wrote:

Gigliati wrote:

Protheus wrote:Somehow i don´t understand why some fans preffer to move up some places instead of winning silverware.
A club success is mesure by the trophies they have not if they finished 8th 4th and the like.
Even CL places are a mean to WIN stuff with the extra money.
What is the point of having a biggest budget if you win nothing?
Gigliati if Fiorentina wins the UEFA cup you get european glory don´t you want that?

Protheus, the CL is an important trophy. It has a lot of prestige, and a lot of money associated with it. The UEFA Cup does not. Just like domestically, Serie A has a lot of prestige and money. Coppa does not. Its the reality of the matter. 20 years ago it was very different. Now UEFA Cup has lost its shine.

To answer lrd's question, YES. I think any sensible fan would prefer to finish 4th in Serie A, than finish 6th and win the UEFA Cup! There is no ambiguity there. Finishing 4th means CL football, Euro 10 Million guaranteed if you make the group stage, plus much more if you do better. Also, you get to see your team and players against the best in Europe. Frankly, i don't mind playing/winning the Coppa or uefa cup as long as it does not impact the competitions that really matter - Serie A and CL.

Lrd, as a ManU fan, would you prefer to win the UEFA Cup and not qualify for the CL, or would you rather screw the UEFA Cup and qualify for the CL?

Ok i guess my question wasnt great because i thought only the top 3 an Italy went to the cl. So say you would finish 11th in seria a and win the uefa cup, or finish 5th surely it's the first option?
But even still it depends on the club. Obviously for Man Utd qualifying for the cl would be more important. But for Fiorentina i think winning the uefa cup would and should be more important. Look at Sevilla they won it twice and now they have a good european ranking, they are well rated everywhere and could attract very good players, and now they're doing very well in the cl.
Same with Porto they won the uefa cup and next year won the cl. If Fiorentina qualified for the cl, i think there is a good chance you would finish 3rd in the group.....and then you would go into the uefa cup anyway

I find your comments very condecending, perhaps coming from your lack of knowledge of Serie A. Yes, there are 4 CL spots in Serie A, just like in EPL. Fiorentina are a big club, and last 2 seasons we have performed as well as Roma has.... even this season, we are currently 4th and can qualify for the CL... its not a question of finishing 5th or 11th, its either making the 3rd/4th spot or not. This was not a hypothetical case, its a real life scenario. Check our position in Serie A last 2 seasons, and you will see what I am talking about.

You seriously think that we cannot attract the kind of players Sevilla can? I think even without CL football we do. With CL football, we would attract even better players. As for anyways finishing 3rd in our group, that is your opinion. If Roma can negotiate it through their groups, I can't see why Fiorentina cannot.

So just because you are ManU, you can think UEFA Cup is $h!t... but Fiorentina cannot? Is that what you are saying??

Man Utd are challenging for the league title every season, and on lots of occasions winning it. Fiorentina are not and havent for a long time. If Fiorentina are this good then why not prove it by winning the uefa cup?

I think you contradict yourself a bit also. Playing for the UEFA cup is apparently costing Fiorentina league positions but you can challenge Roma who are playing for the cl, so obviously it is effecting both teams so if you are as good then whats the problem?

Maybe it is condecending but this how it is. Fiorentina have not been in the champions league for a long time, surely to build a european reputation again it would be better to go very far in the uefa cup than to go out early lose to whoever and then maybe make the cl maybe not, and if you did make the cl there is a fair chance with the rankings that Fiorentina could finish 3rd in the group. How does this help the reputation or the ability to attract players better than the ones you can attract now? You know Lazio didn't go so well.

You can say my knowledge of seria a isnt good, but im sure lots of people if given the choice to join Sevilla or Fiorentina right now would choose Sevilla and the european success would be a major factor in that.

If Man Utd were rarely finishing in the top 4 and made the uefa cup i wouldn't think it's rubbish lets go for the cl i would want to win the uefa cup to move to that next level. I don't think it's $h!t i just think Man Utd rightfully should be going for the cl at all costs. Tottenham and Everton both will go outright to win the uefa cup and i agree with their ambition to do so.

I thought it recently got reduced from 4 to 3 obviously not, but a lot of seria a fans complain about people's lack of knowledge of the league these days, but when you see Italian teams constantly disrespecting the UEFA cup and going out to no marks and not doing well it gives the impression the league is not so strong. It doesn't help the ranking system either and then in the cl you have sometimes cases like Lazio when they also seem weak. So maybe if Fiorentina won the uefa cup people would take a whole different view.

So either way i don't see positives to abandoning the chance to win this competition

Fiorentina don't need to prove their good by winning the UEFA cup. Their league position in the last few seasons have shown theyre a good side.

The Lazio example is not a good one. We overachieved last season, and this season we spent little to no money to prepare ourselves for the CL. Fiorentina would probably spend a bit, but their side is already pretty good and better than ours (and has been for the last 2/3 seasons).

People may choose Sevilla yes, but its probably because they are in the CL atm which backs up Gigliati's point.

How does winning the UEFA cup move you to the next level? it doesnt hold much prestige plus the money in the CL is MUCH better.

Maybe people should watch Serie A to make a judgement on the teams, instead of the usual thing on this board, which is to judge the team when they play an EPL team.

You don't see the positives? its pretty obvious. They focus more on Serie A, and hence gain a CL spot.

Palermo tried this though...and they ended up with neither...

They obviously havent finished in the top 4 once....so how good is finishing 5th or wherever they have finished. They maybe good but if they are very good then win the uefa cup.

Lazio example of course is a good one, similar with Udinese who finished 3rd when they qualified. It's an Italian team who's first season in the cl in awhile have not qualified from the group.

They would maybe choose Sevilla because they have won the uefa cup twice as much as being in the cl......

It does hold prestige, German clubs take it very seriously, as do spanish and english and russians and almost everyone except Italians. The Cl is better of course. If everybody took the UEFA cup seriously it would be very good also.

Maybe judging teams when they play EPL teams is better than judging everything in a pro Seria A stance no matter what the issue.

And if they don't gain the cl spot? It's not likely they will from the table i just looked at. It's a bigger positive winning the UEFA cup than probably missing out on the cl or qualifying then getting nowhere in the cl next year anyway. If you cant handle UEFA cup games why will you be able to handle cl games.

Prefer Herman by the way

I think Lrd's point is valid. Fans are losing the glory of it all. You're going to sacrifice everything just to strive and get a CL place? (and perhaps in Fiorentina case, might not make it)

Clubs strive for trophies and for the fans the Glory....Is it the case now, the only thing that replicates success is the CL and a good finish in the League? The UEFA Cup has got history and prestige. You come 5th in the league and you're rewarded by getting into the UEFA Cup. As a club, you want and should justify that reward and Win the Tournament.

At the end of the day, every club strives for silverware (CL, Uefa, League etc).....Realistically not many clubs can win the CL/League. Nowadays its a achievement just to participate...(Maybe financially it makes sense, but again I repeat Weres the Glory?).....

Why not try and win "less significant trophy"...? Winning the UEFA Cup should be considered a success, why? Because it's a Trophy that you've earned via the league and now join a lists of illustrious teams that has won it in the past.....Until teams reach a consistency and reach the CL via the league more than one season, I think they atleast should give the UEFA Cup some respect...Perhaps atleast for the Fans?.....

L r d wrote:They obviously havent finished in the top 4 once....so how good is finishing 5th or wherever they have finished. They maybe good but if they are very good then win the uefa cup.

Lazio example of course is a good one, similar with Udinese who finished 3rd when they qualified. It's an Italian team who's first season in the cl in awhile have not qualified from the group.

They would maybe choose Sevilla because they have won the uefa cup twice as much as being in the cl......

It does hold prestige, German clubs take it very seriously, as do spanish and english and russians and almost everyone except Italians. The Cl is better of course. If everybody took the UEFA cup seriously it would be very good also.

Maybe judging teams when they play EPL teams is better than judging everything in a pro Seria A stance no matter what the issue.

And if they don't gain the cl spot? It's not likely they will from the table i just looked at. It's a bigger positive winning the UEFA cup than probably missing out on the cl or qualifying then getting nowhere in the cl next year anyway. If you cant handle UEFA cup games why will you be able to handle cl games.

Prefer Herman by the way

You once again show how uninformed you are Lloyd.

They finished in the top 4 for the last 2 seasons but were penalised by the Calciopoli penalties so they are certainly good enough to get it. Maybe they might win the UEFA cup, but losing Mutu is a BIG blow. Still, Vieri will probably do the business.

I told you why the Lazio example is not a good one. Udinese lost Spalletti. These were all teams having a one off good season. With Fiorentina thats clearly not the case.

CL football is what attracts players. Not some reject CL trophy.

The UEFA cup really is a reject cup, taking rejects from 2 CL qualifying rounds and people from the intertoto cup and winners of the carling cup etc. Before 99/00 it was a good cup though.

Judging teams on 1 or 2 games is stupid.

Theyre level with Milan? and Milan will probably be distracted by the CL. They have every chance of getting 4th. Theyve done it the last 2 seasons aswell. Fiorentina can handle UEFA cup games., as seen this season.

Bayern or Spurs to win.

UEFA cup is the Carling Cup of Europe

They should have the winner get a place in the CL the following year, that would make the teams take it more seriously.

110% wrote:UEFA cup is the Carling Cup of Europe

They should have the winner get a place in the CL the following year, that would make the teams take it more seriously.

Not really. If we're going to compare it to English competitions. Then the champions league would be the league and the uefa cup the f.a cup. Carling cup would have been the cup winners cup.

Teams do take it seriously....only Italian teams do not. Bayern, Sevilla, Tottenham, Porto, Marseille, Zenit etc etc all top teams in their league take it very seriously.

With Italians it seems more a mentallity thing more than anything, this is what i wanted to debate to see why they have such a mentallity. But instead Bobo was banging on about people judging things on one game when i personally never mentioned one game i judged anything on, and he himself has done that with regards to debates on ronaldo in the past. So how can you discuss with such bias one eyed hypocrisy.

In saying that i think your idea is a good one anyway. Once you win the uefa cup you have basically completed that level for that period in time, so you should win a place into the cl among the elite.

L r d wrote:

110% wrote:UEFA cup is the Carling Cup of Europe

They should have the winner get a place in the CL the following year, that would make the teams take it more seriously.

Not really. If we're going to compare it to English competitions. Then the champions league would be the league and the uefa cup the f.a cup. Carling cup would have been the cup winners cup.

Teams do take it seriously....only Italian teams do not. Bayern, Sevilla, Tottenham, Porto, Marseille, Zenit etc etc all top teams in their league take it very seriously.

With Italians it seems more a mentallity thing more than anything, this is what i wanted to debate to see why they have such a mentallity. But instead Bobo was banging on about people judging things on one game when i personally never mentioned one game i judged anything on, and he himself has done that with regards to debates on ronaldo in the past. So how can you discuss with such bias one eyed hypocrisy.

In saying that i think your idea is a good one anyway. Once you win the uefa cup you have basically completed that level for that period in time, so you should win a place into the cl among the elite.

Well i already explained, Serie A teams care more about the league than some mickey mouse cup.

You're still bitter that Ronaldo didnt win WPOTY. Get over it.

I think the UEFA Cup is definitely becoming more prestigious again. Sevilla's recent success is testament to that.

Can't understand why clubs wouldn't want to win it.

L r d wrote:They obviously havent finished in the top 4 once....so how good is finishing 5th or wherever they have finished. They maybe good but if they are very good then win the uefa cup.

Lazio example of course is a good one, similar with Udinese who finished 3rd when they qualified. It's an Italian team who's first season in the cl in awhile have not qualified from the group.

Lrd, Fiorentina finished in the top 4 both times in the last 2 seasons, the calciopoli penalties cost them the CL spot both seasons.

Lazio example is NOT a good one, like Bobo pointed out. They were not among the best 4 teams in Serie A last season, they qualified coz Fiorentina were deducted 15 points, and on top of that, they did not spend any money over the summer to strengthen their team. Fiorentina is a much better team, and they would have spent more money if they were playing CL.

BoBo Vieri wrote:Maybe people should watch Serie A to make a judgement on the teams, instead of the usual thing on this board, which is to judge the team when they play an EPL team.

Biggest problem on this MB, some posters make big judgements without watching any Serie A!!

bluenine wrote:

L r d wrote:They obviously havent finished in the top 4 once....so how good is finishing 5th or wherever they have finished. They maybe good but if they are very good then win the uefa cup.

Lazio example of course is a good one, similar with Udinese who finished 3rd when they qualified. It's an Italian team who's first season in the cl in awhile have not qualified from the group.

Lrd, Fiorentina finished in the top 4 both times in the last 2 seasons, the calciopoli penalties cost them the CL spot both seasons.

So they did but they didn't. You say calciopoli penalties cost them, well Juventus went to seria B, so if Juventus didn't get such a penalty maybe Fiorentina wouldn't have been in your 'theory' top 4 correct?
So this argument does not work at all.

The Lazio case is a fine one it actually happenend it isnt theory, it is not we know they good so they don't have to prove it scenario, they qualified and finished 4th whatever circumstances surround it.

This everyone is against us, and everybody is ignorant of Seria A is a bit tiresome, just debate some points without resorting to this

L r d wrote:

bluenine wrote:

L r d wrote:They obviously havent finished in the top 4 once....so how good is finishing 5th or wherever they have finished. They maybe good but if they are very good then win the uefa cup.

Lazio example of course is a good one, similar with Udinese who finished 3rd when they qualified. It's an Italian team who's first season in the cl in awhile have not qualified from the group.

Lrd, Fiorentina finished in the top 4 both times in the last 2 seasons, the calciopoli penalties cost them the CL spot both seasons.

So they did but they didn't. You say calciopoli penalties cost them, well Juventus went to seria B, so if Juventus didn't get such a penalty maybe Fiorentina wouldn't have been in your 'theory' top 4 correct?
So this argument does not work at all.

The Lazio case is a fine one it actually happenend it isnt theory, it is not we know they good so they don't have to prove it scenario, they qualified and finished 4th whatever circumstances surround it.

This everyone is against us, and everybody is ignorant of Seria A is a bit tiresome, just debate some points without resorting to this

Fiorentina won the top 4 spots on the pitch. They are a top 4 side and not just a flash in the pan.

The Lazio example is not good because we had just one good season. We are not a consistent top 4 side like Fiorentina. In addition, we didn't spend enough to fill the holes in our squad, i doubt Fiorentina would do the same though. Fiorentina and Lazio is not a good example. It's like comparing Liverpool to say Tottenham.

I am debating the points, what do you think all my posts have been about?

bluenine wrote:

L r d wrote:They obviously havent finished in the top 4 once....so how good is finishing 5th or wherever they have finished. They maybe good but if they are very good then win the uefa cup.

Lazio example of course is a good one, similar with Udinese who finished 3rd when they qualified. It's an Italian team who's first season in the cl in awhile have not qualified from the group.

Lrd, Fiorentina finished in the top 4 both times in the last 2 seasons, the calciopoli penalties cost them the CL spot both seasons.

Lazio example is NOT a good one, like Bobo pointed out. They were not among the best 4 teams in Serie A last season, they qualified coz Fiorentina were deducted 15 points, and on top of that, they did not spend any money over the summer to strengthen their team. Fiorentina is a much better team, and they would have spent more money if they were playing CL.

BoBo Vieri wrote:Maybe people should watch Serie A to make a judgement on the teams, instead of the usual thing on this board, which is to judge the team when they play an EPL team.

Biggest problem on this MB, some posters make big judgements without watching any Serie A!!

Mostly just banter to $h!t on Puro's theories about the EPL being just about the "big 4" and the rest of the league being shite.

Lets be honest, this is generally the view of the EPL outside of England is it not?

As a Spurs fan, the idea that Serie A clubs do not take the competition seriously pisses me off anyway. Because it then damages the importance of a competition that plenty of clubs would like to win.

Is it not a poor indictment of Italian football mentality to suggest Serie A is more important than playing other clubs in Europe? As in, they are not worth the hassle so we will sniff at this "mickey mouse" competition?

If anyone is proving to be insular on the subject, is it surely not the Italians and their supporters for mocking a Cup the rest of Europe seems capable of showing respect?

Over to you

I love the UEFA cup. The difference between the Carling Cup and the UEFA cup, I think, is that if you took away the Carling Cup just like that a small number of people might miss it, but if you took away the UEFA cup a lot of football fans all over Europe would feel a sense of loss.

Anyway, why strive to reach, oh, I don't know, 5th, say, in some league only to treat the reward for doing so with disdain?!?!?!?! That makes little sense? I know, let's burn the money we won for finishing 1st in the league. The competition also generates money for clubs.

Plus, it puts players in the shop window since we get see players from a myriad of European teams that we probably wouldn't normally get the opportunity to see.

I hope the UEFA cup remains, and I really respect the team that wins it. UEFA cup winner = a good team. Just ask Jose.

Cheers

Sorry to bump this but just been catching up: totally agree with Bernd and Bulk here.

Says Blue: "Biggest problem on this MB, some posters make big judgements without watching any Serie A!!"

Well fair enough, but first, that isn't specifically the biggest problem: the biggest problem may be generalizations and insults from a basis of ignorance in general, but the same point applies to nearly everything, not just Serie A.

Fair enough, I for one am guilty as charged. I don't watch enough Italian football, would love to watch more but don't have the access or the chance all the time, or indeed the time. Everyone has their areas of ignorance, even the most fanatical, and people have to be able to express their views without being shouted down for being ill-informed. People on this board are pretty fanatical by most people's standards but even most of us fanatics are unable and indeed disinclined to follow EVERY league and every area of world football in detail. We do have lives, you know. Which is why we are all reliant on the global reach of this board and why it is a GOOD THING.

The point being this: here is a Europe-wide competition of some prestige, whatever some might say, and why should Europe come to Italy instead of Italy deigning to take one of Europe's premier competitions seriously, the more so when in refusing to do so it is blowing a clear opportunity to advertise itself to a wider audience??

The attitude seems to me to be misguided and wrong: misguided, because it can only help, not hinder, Italian football to shine on the wider European stage, even if they must disdain the UEFA Cup as a "plate" competition for losers; and wrong, because football is (as Danny Blanchflower said) fundamentally about glory, and we might as well give up on our interest in football as a sport if teams have no interest in winning a competition they enter. This crass stultification of the central point of sport is neatly encapsulated by The Bulk's ridiculing of the self-evidently absurd obsession with finishing fifth, or even higher, only in order to spurn your reward for doing so just so you can be in line for the same reward – the one you're not interested in – next year. How utterly surreal, and what a joyless, mechanical, business-obsessed treadmill it makes the sport of football into.