UEFA Cup last 32 discussion thread

Allez les rouges wrote:Sorry to bump this but just been catching up: totally agree with Bernd and Bulk here.

Says Blue: "Biggest problem on this MB, some posters make big judgements without watching any Serie A!!"

Well fair enough, but first, that isn't specifically the biggest problem: the biggest problem may be generalizations and insults from a basis of ignorance in general, but the same point applies to nearly everything, not just Serie A.

Fair enough, I for one am guilty as charged. I don't watch enough Italian football, would love to watch more but don't have the access or the chance all the time, or indeed the time. Everyone has their areas of ignorance, even the most fanatical, and people have to be able to express their views without being shouted down for being ill-informed. People on this board are pretty fanatical by most people's standards but even most of us fanatics are unable and indeed disinclined to follow EVERY league and every area of world football in detail. We do have lives, you know. Which is why we are all reliant on the global reach of this board and why it is a GOOD THING.

The point being this: here is a Europe-wide competition of some prestige, whatever some might say, and why should Europe come to Italy instead of Italy deigning to take one of Europe's premier competitions seriously, the more so when in refusing to do so it is blowing a clear opportunity to advertise itself to a wider audience??

The attitude seems to me to be misguided and wrong: misguided, because it can only help, not hinder, Italian football to shine on the wider European stage, even if they must disdain the UEFA Cup as a "plate" competition for losers; and wrong, because football is (as Danny Blanchflower said) fundamentally about glory, and we might as well give up on our interest in football as a sport if teams have no interest in winning a competition they enter. This crass stultification of the central point of sport is neatly encapsulated by The Bulk's ridiculing of the self-evidently absurd obsession with finishing fifth, or even higher, only in order to spurn your reward for doing so just so you can be in line for the same reward – the one you're not interested in – next year. How utterly surreal, and what a joyless, mechanical, business-obsessed treadmill it makes the sport of football into.

Top Post!

Allez les rouges wrote:Sorry to bump this but just been catching up: totally agree with Bernd and Bulk here.

Says Blue: "Biggest problem on this MB, some posters make big judgements without watching any Serie A!!"

Well fair enough, but first, that isn't specifically the biggest problem: the biggest problem may be generalizations and insults from a basis of ignorance in general, but the same point applies to nearly everything, not just Serie A.

Fair enough, I for one am guilty as charged. I don't watch enough Italian football, would love to watch more but don't have the access or the chance all the time, or indeed the time. Everyone has their areas of ignorance, even the most fanatical, and people have to be able to express their views without being shouted down for being ill-informed. People on this board are pretty fanatical by most people's standards but even most of us fanatics are unable and indeed disinclined to follow EVERY league and every area of world football in detail. We do have lives, you know. Which is why we are all reliant on the global reach of this board and why it is a GOOD THING.

The point being this: here is a Europe-wide competition of some prestige, whatever some might say, and why should Europe come to Italy instead of Italy deigning to take one of Europe's premier competitions seriously, the more so when in refusing to do so it is blowing a clear opportunity to advertise itself to a wider audience??

The attitude seems to me to be misguided and wrong: misguided, because it can only help, not hinder, Italian football to shine on the wider European stage, even if they must disdain the UEFA Cup as a "plate" competition for losers; and wrong, because football is (as Danny Blanchflower said) fundamentally about glory, and we might as well give up on our interest in football as a sport if teams have no interest in winning a competition they enter. This crass stultification of the central point of sport is neatly encapsulated by The Bulk's ridiculing of the self-evidently absurd obsession with finishing fifth, or even higher, only in order to spurn your reward for doing so just so you can be in line for the same reward – the one you're not interested in – next year. How utterly surreal, and what a joyless, mechanical, business-obsessed treadmill it makes the sport of football into.

Top post

Allez les rouges wrote:Sorry to bump this but just been catching up: totally agree with Bernd and Bulk here.

Says Blue: "Biggest problem on this MB, some posters make big judgements without watching any Serie A!!"

Well fair enough, but first, that isn't specifically the biggest problem: the biggest problem may be generalizations and insults from a basis of ignorance in general, but the same point applies to nearly everything, not just Serie A.

Fair enough, I for one am guilty as charged. I don't watch enough Italian football, would love to watch more but don't have the access or the chance all the time, or indeed the time. Everyone has their areas of ignorance, even the most fanatical, and people have to be able to express their views without being shouted down for being ill-informed. People on this board are pretty fanatical by most people's standards but even most of us fanatics are unable and indeed disinclined to follow EVERY league and every area of world football in detail. We do have lives, you know. Which is why we are all reliant on the global reach of this board and why it is a GOOD THING.

The point being this: here is a Europe-wide competition of some prestige, whatever some might say, and why should Europe come to Italy instead of Italy deigning to take one of Europe's premier competitions seriously, the more so when in refusing to do so it is blowing a clear opportunity to advertise itself to a wider audience??

The attitude seems to me to be misguided and wrong: misguided, because it can only help, not hinder, Italian football to shine on the wider European stage, even if they must disdain the UEFA Cup as a "plate" competition for losers; and wrong, because football is (as Danny Blanchflower said) fundamentally about glory, and we might as well give up on our interest in football as a sport if teams have no interest in winning a competition they enter. This crass stultification of the central point of sport is neatly encapsulated by The Bulk's ridiculing of the self-evidently absurd obsession with finishing fifth, or even higher, only in order to spurn your reward for doing so just so you can be in line for the same reward – the one you're not interested in – next year. How utterly surreal, and what a joyless, mechanical, business-obsessed treadmill it makes the sport of football into.

Great post - well written.

In Scotland, when Celtic got to the final of the UEFA cup against Porto, many of their fans preferred the prospect of European success at the expense of the league. Sure, that might be because the SPL is dominated by Celtic and Rangers and winning something other than the league might be novel, but following Celtic around Europe and winning one of the biggest competitions in world football just seemed romantic and exciting to their fans.

Perhaps Italian fans have enjoyed too much success in the Champions League and UEFA cup to appreciate what their worth is to fans of less successful clubs?

Winning the UEFA cup piques the attention of football fans around the world. Finishing 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th in Serie does not, I would imagine. Of course, fans of Serie A will applaud teams for finishing the season in such a lofty position, but my guess is that success in the UEFA cup is more widely reported to football fans around the world than finishing in any position apart from 1st in Italy.

So this notion that finishing 4th, for example, in Serie A bestows some sort of inherent respect that would be recognised by football fans that do not follow Italian football is bunkum, I think.

Rather, more respect and adulation is likely to be paid to the club that wins the UEFA cup.

But, perhaps I am mistaken.

Cheers

Allez les rouges wrote:Sorry to bump this but just been catching up: totally agree with Bernd and Bulk here.

Says Blue: "Biggest problem on this MB, some posters make big judgements without watching any Serie A!!"

Well fair enough, but first, that isn't specifically the biggest problem: the biggest problem may be generalizations and insults from a basis of ignorance in general, but the same point applies to nearly everything, not just Serie A.

Fair enough, I for one am guilty as charged. I don't watch enough Italian football, would love to watch more but don't have the access or the chance all the time, or indeed the time. Everyone has their areas of ignorance, even the most fanatical, and people have to be able to express their views without being shouted down for being ill-informed. People on this board are pretty fanatical by most people's standards but even most of us fanatics are unable and indeed disinclined to follow EVERY league and every area of world football in detail. We do have lives, you know. Which is why we are all reliant on the global reach of this board and why it is a GOOD THING.

The point being this: here is a Europe-wide competition of some prestige, whatever some might say, and why should Europe come to Italy instead of Italy deigning to take one of Europe's premier competitions seriously, the more so when in refusing to do so it is blowing a clear opportunity to advertise itself to a wider audience??

The attitude seems to me to be misguided and wrong: misguided, because it can only help, not hinder, Italian football to shine on the wider European stage, even if they must disdain the UEFA Cup as a "plate" competition for losers; and wrong, because football is (as Danny Blanchflower said) fundamentally about glory, and we might as well give up on our interest in football as a sport if teams have no interest in winning a competition they enter. This crass stultification of the central point of sport is neatly encapsulated by The Bulk's ridiculing of the self-evidently absurd obsession with finishing fifth, or even higher, only in order to spurn your reward for doing so just so you can be in line for the same reward – the one you're not interested in – next year. How utterly surreal, and what a joyless, mechanical, business-obsessed treadmill it makes the sport of football into.

You got me completely wrong on both counts:

1. I have nothing against discussion or even opinions (in most cases)... you don't have to watch a lot of Serie A to comment on it or even give your opinion... but if you don't watch it, making seriously wrong judgements is silly, and defending them even more silly. I have nothing against ignorance, totally agree with your point that we all are ignorant about some league or the other, but when you are ignorant, you should not make big judgements and then defend them when corrected...

2. I always maintained that I find this italian attitude towards uefa cup very myopic. I believe that all clubs should participate in a competition to win, or not participate at all... they are the main reason why Italy is ranked so poorly in uefa coefficients. I am completely with Prandelli, his attitude is very refreshing!! But its a fact that a lot of italian clubs and fans don't care about the uefa cup, or the coppa. Its unfortunate, but true.

No no Blue, we're both talking at cross purposes and misunderstanding each other here. I don't disagree with any of that nor did I mean to come across as saying your original statement was wrong at all, EXCEPT to say that the same applies to ANY league or area of football (or indeed any other topic, for that matter).

Nor did I mean to use you as an example of the "Serie A is all that counts" argument – I just took your argument as a starting point and took the opportunity to make the point "well fair enough, most of us don't (get to) watch enough Italian football, so here's a great window for us to see some decent Italian teams in action – what a shame then that they don't (always) seem interested".

I can see that it might've looked like I was setting your view up as something to contradict, but I didn't disagree with the substance of your point that I quoted and didn't mean to misrepresent you as arguing against the UEFA Cup. Sorry about that.

One point worth mentioning – when Liverpool won their cup treble in 2002, I heard Gérard Houllier laid all the trophies out and asked his players which one meant the most to them. Broadly speaking, the English players pointed to the FA Cup, the continental ones to the UEFA Cup...

Allez les rouges wrote:Sorry to bump this but just been catching up: totally agree with Bernd and Bulk here.

Says Blue: "Biggest problem on this MB, some posters make big judgements without watching any Serie A!!"

Well fair enough, but first, that isn't specifically the biggest problem: the biggest problem may be generalizations and insults from a basis of ignorance in general, but the same point applies to nearly everything, not just Serie A.

Fair enough, I for one am guilty as charged. I don't watch enough Italian football, would love to watch more but don't have the access or the chance all the time, or indeed the time. Everyone has their areas of ignorance, even the most fanatical, and people have to be able to express their views without being shouted down for being ill-informed. People on this board are pretty fanatical by most people's standards but even most of us fanatics are unable and indeed disinclined to follow EVERY league and every area of world football in detail. We do have lives, you know. Which is why we are all reliant on the global reach of this board and why it is a GOOD THING.

The point being this: here is a Europe-wide competition of some prestige, whatever some might say, and why should Europe come to Italy instead of Italy deigning to take one of Europe's premier competitions seriously, the more so when in refusing to do so it is blowing a clear opportunity to advertise itself to a wider audience??

The attitude seems to me to be misguided and wrong: misguided, because it can only help, not hinder, Italian football to shine on the wider European stage, even if they must disdain the UEFA Cup as a "plate" competition for losers; and wrong, because football is (as Danny Blanchflower said) fundamentally about glory, and we might as well give up on our interest in football as a sport if teams have no interest in winning a competition they enter. This crass stultification of the central point of sport is neatly encapsulated by The Bulk's ridiculing of the self-evidently absurd obsession with finishing fifth, or even higher, only in order to spurn your reward for doing so just so you can be in line for the same reward – the one you're not interested in – next year. How utterly surreal, and what a joyless, mechanical, business-obsessed treadmill it makes the sport of football into.

Great read

I feel like I've been here before

What I've found particularly strange is that Italian teams have taken qualification, for the group stages at least, relatively seriously. I'm thinking in particular here about Palermo last season.

Fair play, this season I can understand why Empoli in particular, may have been tempted to play a 2nd string squad - they were probably aware that a relegation struggle was on thye cards and if indeed they had made an effort in the UEFA cup they would probably find themselves in a worse predicament than they are at present.

I think its worth comparing player opinion verses manager opinion here though. I'm reasonably sure that the players at Empoli would really have liked to have given the UEFa cup a go. If I was a footballer, I'd love to play in any sort of European competition, regardless of the level, as it gives you a unique experience to play in a variety of climates, crowd types and against a variety of footballing philosophies.

In contrast, a mangaer may be slightly more reserved about a EURO competition.

If you get to the last 16, fair play, you've done well, but if this is to the detriment of a few league places, then at the end of the season the board are going to be far from happy.

Taking up the Empoli case again here, they could well be bottom of the table by now if they'd taken the competition seriously and the manager would be out of a job.

That said, Empoli are a unique case and there have been many other teams not in Empoli's position who have also treated the UEFA cup with similar distain.

The whole debate started because Gigliati posted this

Gigliati wrote:I hope Everton beat us. We need to focus on the Serie A campaign, and this silly little cup just hurt us against Roma today. Our players looked tired. Prandelli takes the coppa and the uefa cup too seriously. Who cares about these trophies?? Certainly not the fans. Neither does the bank balance... so what is the point?

Ray Parlour wrote:Jeez Everton went on hard!

Fiorentina better watch out. It's a good squad Everton have!

So it's fans, managers and chairmen alike who all think this way. Can understand a bit in their situation, but when people say silly little cup it comes across they wouldn't care in any case.

We are about the only Italian team who take it seriously. We went through the Intertoto Cup to get into this, and we ae doing our best in Serie A to qualify for it again.

Unfortunately we always seem to have one bad game in the competition which costs us.

The Bulk wrote:I love the UEFA cup. The difference between the Carling Cup and the UEFA cup, I think, is that if you took away the Carling Cup just like that a small number of people might miss it, but if you took away the UEFA cup a lot of football fans all over Europe would feel a sense of loss.

Anyway, why strive to reach, oh, I don't know, 5th, say, in some league only to treat the reward for doing so with disdain?!?!?!?! That makes little sense? I know, let's burn the money we won for finishing 1st in the league. The competition also generates money for clubs.

Plus, it puts players in the shop window since we get see players from a myriad of European teams that we probably wouldn't normally get the opportunity to see.

I hope the UEFA cup remains, and I really respect the team that wins it. UEFA cup winner = a good team. Just ask Jose.

Cheers

I agree some teams shouldve taken the UEFA cup more seriously, since they are at the level of a UEFA cup side.

We were debating Fiorentina though who have proven themselves to be a top 4 side. It's a completely different case.

BoBo Vieri wrote:

The Bulk wrote:I love the UEFA cup. The difference between the Carling Cup and the UEFA cup, I think, is that if you took away the Carling Cup just like that a small number of people might miss it, but if you took away the UEFA cup a lot of football fans all over Europe would feel a sense of loss.

Anyway, why strive to reach, oh, I don't know, 5th, say, in some league only to treat the reward for doing so with disdain?!?!?!?! That makes little sense? I know, let's burn the money we won for finishing 1st in the league. The competition also generates money for clubs.

Plus, it puts players in the shop window since we get see players from a myriad of European teams that we probably wouldn't normally get the opportunity to see.

I hope the UEFA cup remains, and I really respect the team that wins it. UEFA cup winner = a good team. Just ask Jose.

Cheers

I agree some teams shouldve taken the UEFA cup more seriously, since they are at the level of a UEFA cup side.

We were debating Fiorentina though who have proven themselves to be a top 4 side. It's a completely different case.

Then, if that is the case - i.e. Fiorentina are better than the rest of the UEFA cup participants - they should strive to win the cup. After all, it should not be too difficult for them if, as you say, they are better than your normal UEFA cup fare.

Further, teams who have played - and may have played well - in the Champions League and finished 3rd in their group should not take the UEFA cup, the cup they enter for finishing 3rd in their group, seriously since they've proven themselves better than the rest. That’s what your argument suggests.

Isn't it more about the glory, the winning of competitions, than proving yourself to be a good league team by finishing 4th in Serie A. What have you won if you achieve that? Sure, you might receive a few insincere platitudes and indifferent hand claps from fellow Italians, fellow Italians who may be cheering as their Milan side wins the Champions League again and, really, couldn’t care less if you finished 4th or 5th.

In ten years' time hardly anybody, apart from, say, the Fiorentina fans themselves, are going to recall that they finished 4th in 2008/2009.

Therefore, wouldn't it be much more glorious to win the UEFA cup, a piece of glory that is going to be remembered by football fans around the world for a number of years?

I can tell you the winners of most leagues over the last couple of years, but I couldn't tell you who finished 3rd in La Liga two years ago, for example, or even who finished 3rd in the SPL, the league of the country I live in, in previous seasons. Yet I know Sevilla won the UEFA cup two years ago. And I remember Feyenoord won a pulsating match against Dortmund at a frenzied De Kuip in 2002. And the first time I ever heard about a team called FC Schalke was when me and a bunch of friends from school watched the 1997 UEFA cup final games against Inter.

I have no memory of what Fiorentina were doing at that point in time. Of course, I knew about Gabriel Batistuta and I enjoyed seeing the Tuscan hills behind the stadium on a wet Sunday afternoon in Glasgow, courtesy of Channel 4’s Football Italia. But it is the European competitions that stick in my mind and the prospect of any Scottish team winning a European competition that excites me to this day.

See, it is much more glorious to win the UEFA cup than to finish 4th in Serie A.

The Bulk wrote:

BoBo Vieri wrote:

The Bulk wrote:I love the UEFA cup. The difference between the Carling Cup and the UEFA cup, I think, is that if you took away the Carling Cup just like that a small number of people might miss it, but if you took away the UEFA cup a lot of football fans all over Europe would feel a sense of loss.
Sorry maybe i didnt make myself clear.


Anyway, why strive to reach, oh, I don't know, 5th, say, in some league only to treat the reward for doing so with disdain?!?!?!?! That makes little sense? I know, let's burn the money we won for finishing 1st in the league. The competition also generates money for clubs.

Plus, it puts players in the shop window since we get see players from a myriad of European teams that we probably wouldn't normally get the opportunity to see.

I hope the UEFA cup remains, and I really respect the team that wins it. UEFA cup winner = a good team. Just ask Jose.

Cheers

I agree some teams shouldve taken the UEFA cup more seriously, since they are at the level of a UEFA cup side.

We were debating Fiorentina though who have proven themselves to be a top 4 side. It's a completely different case.

Then, if that is the case - i.e. Fiorentina are better than the rest of the UEFA cup participants - they should strive to win the cup. After all, it should not be too difficult for them if, as you say, they are better than your normal UEFA cup fare.

Further, teams who have played - and may have played well - in the Champions League and finished 3rd in their group should not take the UEFA cup, the cup they enter for finishing 3rd in their group, seriously since they've proven themselves better than the rest. That’s what your argument suggests.

Isn't it more about the glory, the winning of competitions, than proving yourself to be a good league team by finishing 4th in Serie A. What have you won if you achieve that? Sure, you might receive a few insincere platitudes and indifferent hand claps from fellow Italians, fellow Italians who may be cheering as their Milan side wins the Champions League again and, really, couldn’t care less if you finished 4th or 5th.

In ten years' time hardly anybody, apart from, say, the Fiorentina fans themselves, are going to recall that they finished 4th in 2008/2009.

Therefore, wouldn't it be much more glorious to win the UEFA cup, a piece of glory that is going to be remembered by football fans around the world for a number of years?

I can tell you the winners of most leagues over the last couple of years, but I couldn't tell you who finished 3rd in La Liga two years ago, for example, or even who finished 3rd in the SPL, the league of the country I live in, in previous seasons. Yet I know Sevilla won the UEFA cup two years ago. And I remember Feyenoord won a pulsating match against Dortmund at a frenzied De Kuip in 2002. And the first time I ever heard about a team called FC Schalke was when me and a bunch of friends from school watched the 1997 UEFA cup final games against Inter.

I have no memory of what Fiorentina were doing at that point in time. Of course, I knew about Gabriel Batistuta and I enjoyed seeing the Tuscan hills behind the stadium on a wet Sunday afternoon in Glasgow, courtesy of Channel 4’s Football Italia. But it is the European competitions that stick in my mind and the prospect of any Scottish team winning a European competition that excites me to this day.

See, it is much more glorious to win the UEFA cup than to finish 4th in Serie A.

When i referred to a team as being at the level of a UEFA cup team, i meant that in Serie A they generally finish in and around the UEFA cup places.

Would be great for Fiorentina to win the UEFA cup but that could harm their chances of getting 4th place which is probably more important to them.

Finishing 4th would get Fiorentina in the CL which is very important for the club. Sure winning the UEFA cup would mean you've won something, albeit a Cup thats lost its prestige. I think basically where we disagee is on 4th place v Uefa Cup. In the long term 4th place is probably more valuable.

BoBo

Ultimately, this all boils down to perceptions. You, and may I suggest the majority of Italians, too, view the UEFA cup as an inferior competition.

Others, however, Scots included, regard the UEFA cup as a major trophy. That’s why I suggested in my earlier post that Italians have become too accustomed to success in European competitions.

Consequently, it is inevitable that its worth would decrease in your countrymen’s eyes given your familiarity with the competition.

Allow me to predicate this next point with a suggestion that my opinion may be erroneous. But I think that, although the majority of Italians view the UEFA as an annoyance, unworthy of serious consideration, most other European countries hold it in high esteem. And, furthermore, it would be an honour, and privilege, for their teams to progress and, perhaps, if they are fortunate, win it outright.

Nevertheless, both of our feelings towards the competition are subjective and I cannot convince you of its importance.

So allow me to appeal to your rationale. Celtic earned more money getting to the final of the UEFA cup and losing than they have ever earned from any of their Champions League campaigns. And Celtic have qualified from their Champions League group twice. How did they earn this money? Well, it was attained via gate receipts, television rights, winnings from UEFA, and, most importantly, merchandising. You see, Celtic, owing to their UEFA cup success, earned more money from shirt sales and other associated ventures than they have ever done in the past. Their success led to an increase in sales of their merchandise, principally because their reputation increased. The same thing happens for the participants of the CL final. Fiorentina have more chance of reaching the final of the UEFA cup than they do the Champions League. Accordingly, the pecuniary reward for Fiorentina may be more significant – depending on certain variables that I do not know – than participating in the Champions League.

As an aside, I should add that since Sevilla won the UEFA cup, I have seen kids and teens wearing their strip in Glasgow, all purchased from a shop called Greaves Sports. Now, previous to their success in Europe I cannot recall any kids their strip, and I doubt it was very popular in Scotland at all. So in terms of economic importance, I think European success in the UEFA cup outweighs finishing 4th in Serie A. Or La Liga. Or the EPL. Or Ligue 1. And so on.

@Bulk, I hope in this larger arguement you don't forget that Fiorentina are actually one of the very few italian clubs in recent history who are actually taking UEFA Cup seriously and are going for it as a key objective for this season. Its a very refreshing attitude, and I hope the rest of Serie A sides learn from their example.

The Bulk wrote:Then, if that is the case - i.e. Fiorentina are better than the rest of the UEFA cup participants - they should strive to win the cup. After all, it should not be too difficult for them if, as you say, they are better than your normal UEFA cup fare.

bluenine wrote:@Bulk, I hope in this larger arguement you don't forget that Fiorentina are actually one of the very few italian clubs in recent history who are actually taking UEFA Cup seriously and are going for it as a key objective for this season. Its a very refreshing attitude, and I hope the rest of Serie A sides learn from their example.

The Bulk wrote:Then, if that is the case - i.e. Fiorentina are better than the rest of the UEFA cup participants - they should strive to win the cup. After all, it should not be too difficult for them if, as you say, they are better than your normal UEFA cup fare.

Blue

I did not know that. Thank you for informing me.

i dont know why you worry so much - so italy doesnt want to take the UEFA cup seriously?

its their loss, and its their coefficient that will get screwed.

its often said in life that sometimes people dont take things seriously because they are scared of failure. Italy has failed miserably over the last 5 or so years in the UEFA cup, i cant even remember the last semi finalist it had? Perhaps by pretending to not care, its an excuse when they fail?

when spain had 3 of the 4 semi finalists last year, they were comparing it to the 3 of 4 CL semi finalists england had, and saying it showed the spanish league was stronger!

didnt parma reach the semis the other year?

racing wrote:i dont know why you worry so much - so italy doesnt want to take the UEFA cup seriously?

its their loss, and its their coefficient that will get screwed.

its often said in life that sometimes people dont take things seriously because they are scared of failure. Italy has failed miserably over the last 5 or so years in the UEFA cup, i cant even remember the last semi finalist it had? Perhaps by pretending to not care, its an excuse when they fail?

when spain had 3 of the 4 semi finalists last year, they were comparing it to the 3 of 4 CL semi finalists england had, and saying it showed the spanish league was stronger!

Good point. I don't know why I'm worried about it.

Perhaps it is because I am annoyed because a trophy I value is demeaned by the Italians.

In my country, a modicum of success in Europe is a moment to savour.

I shouldn't really be annoyed. After all, what difference does it make to my perception of the competition if some anonymous people on a forum don't value it?

Ok, how much do I owe you for this session?

Cheers.

Can't wait for Thursday now and the Serie A v EPL battle

Both had good wins today.

Tweedle wrote:Can't wait for Thursday now and the Serie A v EPL battle

Both had good wins today.

Of course Tweeds, your life revolves around the Serie A vs EPL "battle" and your agendas on this board that come with that.

Vieri to score a hattrick

I pray for the safety of the English fans.

borocooper wrote:I pray for the safety of the English fans.

We should have a sweepstake on how many English fans will get stabbed this week by Italians.