Real Madrid Vs. Liverpool Discussion Thread

Torrente wrote:I'm absolutely fuming at that worthless piece of shit Heinze!!! Talk about giving away a retarded free kick, giving us the humiliation of losing by a goal from a third rate player like Benayoon.

It was a bad freekick but the marking was horrible. There's no way Benayoun should win a header in the box.

Juande should also get a big share of the blame for tonight's defeat. His change of tactics after half time made no sense. First of all, there's the Marcelo/Guti substitution. I actually thought Marcelo was decent, though I could understand putting in Guti since we needed somebody to try more throughballs and try to penetrate that massive wall Liverpool had in front of their penalty area. But why the hell was Guti playing BEHIND Gago and Diarra?!!! If there ever was a game where Guti didn't have to come back to bring the ball out, THIS WAS IT! Both Gago and Diarra are able to do this, the problem was the final ball in Liverpool's half. This was absolutely incomprehensible to me, and it's probably Ramos's biggest howler to date.

I think that's harsh on Juande. I agree Guti was sh!t and he didn't help us at all but it was still going for 0-0 even after the substitution until Heinze f*cked it all up. Surely you don't believe that Juande instructed Heinze to foul Kuyt?

There are 3 players who were absolutely awful today - Heinze, Guti, and Raul. Heinze lost the ball 50 times and gave away a crucial foul yet again. Kuyt was the last player he needed to foul! The guy as about as much talent as a yard stick. He was going nowhere in that play.

Guti is an absolute disgrace, and tonight was the last straw for me. He has to go. Once again, he just strolled around the field, gave the ball away for fun, and looked like he couldn't give a damn. I really feel like beating the living hell out of him at the moment.

Totally agree. Guti has offered us nothing this season and he again offered us nothing when it really mattered.

And I was saying earlier that while I was happy that Raul had picked up his level lately, I was also somewhat cautious because that meant he would get a bonus to play 90 minutes for the rest of the season no matter how crap he was. Tonight my fears came true. Raul was the invisible man once again, doing nothing but a girly finish after a great Robben pass all game.

But Raul is always a product of the team. He's not going to create anything for himself. Liverpool completely shut down the whole team.

Overall, we didn't deserve to lose, but Ramos's substitution and change of tactics lost us the game. At least with a 0-0 we would have had a chance in Anfield, since Liverpool would have been forced to at least attempt to attack. Now we can expect an absolute catenaccio feast in England, and I can't see us getting past it.

I disagree. Liverpool were superior. They played cynical, anti-football, catenaccio - true. But that said, they were better than us. If that's the best we can come up with, at home, then we don't deserve to win and we certainly don't deserve to go to the quarterfinals.

The thing is that under Rafa Liverpool became the team that everyone wants to avoid in the UCL KO stage. Several teams have more talent than them, but Liverpool are tactically smarter than anyone. It doesn't matter if they play the second leg away or at home. Milan, Barça, Arsenal, Real (sorry, this tie is dead and buried), Inter, Juve, Chelsea, etc. Rafa knocked all them out of the UCL.

What's the similarity between Real Madrid and a corrupt boxer?
You know exactly in which round they're going down!


What's the difference between Real Madrid and a beggar?
The beggar at least manages to get a few quarters every now and then!


Why should it be mandatory for all potential bus drivers to visit Liverpool at least once during their training?
So they can learn how to park!


I'm here all week

I disagree. Liverpool were superior. They played cynical, anti-football, catenaccio - true. But that said, they were better than us. If that's the best we can come up with, at home, then we don't deserve to win and we certainly don't deserve to go to the quarterfinals.

Yes, we don't.

I disagree. Liverpool were superior. They played cynical, anti-football, catenaccio - true. But that said, they were better than us. If that's the best we can come up with, at home, then we don't deserve to win and we certainly don't deserve to go to the quarterfinals.

[/quote]

kas wrote:What's the similarity between Real Madrid and a corrupt boxer?
You know exactly in which round they're going down!


What's the difference between Real Madrid and a beggar?
The beggar at least manages to get a few quarters every now and then!


Why should it be mandatory for all potential bus drivers to visit Liverpool at least once during their training?
So they can learn how to park!


I'm here all week

You made them up yourself?

I did warn you about Heinze

Tweedle wrote:I did warn you about Heinze

You think we didn't know?
Do you have any idea how annoying it is to watch a player that has played for PSG,Man Utd,Argentina, and won cups play like it is first day in training. He makes the most strange foults and the most strange times and gets violent for no reason. He is the anti footballer.

supermadrid wrote:

kas wrote:What's the similarity between Real Madrid and a corrupt boxer?
You know exactly in which round they're going down!


What's the difference between Real Madrid and a beggar?
The beggar at least manages to get a few quarters every now and then!


Why should it be mandatory for all potential bus drivers to visit Liverpool at least once during their training?
So they can learn how to park!


I'm here all week

You made them up yourself?

Yup

kas wrote:

supermadrid wrote:

kas wrote:What's the similarity between Real Madrid and a corrupt boxer?
You know exactly in which round they're going down!


What's the difference between Real Madrid and a beggar?
The beggar at least manages to get a few quarters every now and then!


Why should it be mandatory for all potential bus drivers to visit Liverpool at least once during their training?
So they can learn how to park!


I'm here all week

You made them up yourself?

Yup

Why embarrased because I thought they were good. Like the one with the beggar.

Because I spent time coming up with them...wasn't much, but still

Super Madrid wrote:

Tweedle wrote:I did warn you about Heinze

You think we didn't know?
Do you have any idea how annoying it is to watch a player that has played for PSG,Man Utd,Argentina, and won cups play like it is first day in training. He makes the most strange foults and the most strange times and gets violent for no reason. He is the anti footballer.

He was fine until he had that injury at Utd.

Arnaud and a Napoleon both said that when Heinze was at PSG he was far and away their best and most important player above Dinho. When he first joined Utd he was also fantastic and didn't seem to have any of the tendancies he does now - he was composed, didn't make mistakes and also got forward well.

After that injury though he completely changed as a footballer

Unlucky Jaime

Think last night was exactly what you expect from us in Europe; an organised, comfortable, proffessional performance. Madrid didn't threaten all night bar maybe Robben finding a bit of space on a couple of occasions.

I think if Gerrard and Torres had both played the whole game we could have won by more but it's a testament to the rest of the team that they can go and get results.

Benayoun has been in great form over the last month or so, it's a good job as well because we don't have many other options on that right hand side but he's really taken his chance well and you can't argue with him being first choice at the moment. He'll probably start in the home leg as well seeing as Riera is suspended, his versatility is very useful for us.

I thought the defence were excellent although they weren't troubled much. Aurellio has a very good game and it was an excellent cross in for Benayoun to head home. Alonso was a beast last night, the fact that he's not afraid to try an effort like that in the first half against Casillas shows what a great player he is and i'm certainly regretting criticising him last season although he was poor, he's an extremely important player for us.

The second leg will work in our favour I think, a fantastic atmosphere, a Madrid team who need to come at us and one with a poor defence, Gerrard and Torres will hopefully be fit. If we get a goal early on at Anfield I can see us having another comfortable night.

Tweedle wrote:

Super Madrid wrote:

Tweedle wrote:I did warn you about Heinze

You think we didn't know?
Do you have any idea how annoying it is to watch a player that has played for PSG,Man Utd,Argentina, and won cups play like it is first day in training. He makes the most strange foults and the most strange times and gets violent for no reason. He is the anti footballer.

He was fine until he had that injury at Utd.

Arnaud and a Napoleon both said that when Heinze was at PSG he was far and away their best and most important player above Dinho. When he first joined Utd he was also fantastic and didn't seem to have any of the tendancies he does now - he was composed, didn't make mistakes and also got forward well.

After that injury though he completely changed as a footballer

Yes I know all of that. Heinze was seen a very good player in France and I remember he won player of the year in his first season for Man Utd. But that is exactly my point though. How can a player has soo much experience become so stupid. It is as if that injury simply knocked every single brain cell out of him.
The only thing that annoys me more then him being crap is that nobody in Spain seems to notice.

kas wrote:
Why should it be mandatory for all potential bus drivers to visit LiverpoolEngland at least once during their training?
So they can learn how to park!

Fixed

18 European matches in the last two years between English clubs and there foreign counter parts in the knock out stages. Fenerbache scored 2 goals against Chelsea at home in the first leg and Lyon scored 1 goal at home to Man Utd, everyone else has failed to score. That includes 9 match goalless streak for Italian teams.

Dwarf wrote:

kas wrote:
Why should it be mandatory for all potential bus drivers to visit LiverpoolEngland at least once during their training?
So they can learn how to park!

Fixed

18 European matches in the last two years between English clubs and there foreign counter parts in the knock out stages. Fenerbache scored 2 goals against Chelsea at home in the first leg and Lyon scored 1 goal at home to Man Utd, everyone else has failed to score. That includes 9 match goalless streak for Italian teams.

Only a matter of time before those Yank-inspired "DE-FENCE" chants become a part of EPL culture.

I think its fair to say that the belief that defences in Serie A are seen as better than EPL defences can be put to rest

I'd even go as far as sayng that the current EPL defences are better than the defences in the peak of the Serie A years.

Dwarf wrote:

kas wrote:
Why should it be mandatory for all potential bus drivers to visit LiverpoolEngland at least once during their training?
So they can learn how to park!

Fixed

18 European matches in the last two years between English clubs and there foreign counter parts in the knock out stages. Fenerbache scored 2 goals against Chelsea at home in the first leg and Lyon scored 1 goal at home to Man Utd, everyone else has failed to score. That includes 9 match goalless streak for Italian teams.

Thats mental.

Tweedle wrote:I think its fair to say that the belief that defences in Serie A are seen as better than EPL defences can be put to rest

I'd even go as far as sayng that the current EPL defences are better than the defences in the peak of the Serie A years.

You can't simply use Cl to judge an entire league. Also depends on how you rate you defenders. Can't remember the exact words but Torres made a point that defenders in England are stronger but lack defensive positioning.

What did Diarra do yesterday? Real Madrid need goals!

As the game progressed, I couldn’t see how Real were going to score past Liverpool, the same goes for the second leg.

Super Madrid wrote:

Tweedle wrote:I think its fair to say that the belief that defences in Serie A are seen as better than EPL defences can be put to rest

I'd even go as far as sayng that the current EPL defences are better than the defences in the peak of the Serie A years.

You can't simply use Cl to judge an entire league. Also depends on how you rate you defenders. Can't remember the exact words but Torres made a point that defenders in England are stronger but lack defensive positioning.

Well I'd argue that Villa's and Everton's are as good as the top fours. Everton lack quality elsewhere but not in defence and, well, Villa are better than us at the moment! They'll get knocked out of the UEFA cup tonight but only because O'Neill is playing his 2nd choice line up.

There aren't any teams in the EPL that seem to get anywhere near steamrollered this season. the worst defence is probably Hull's.

@Jaime

The point I'm making is that Ramos had Guti dropping behind the midfield line to bring the ball up, which made no sense whatsoever. With a doble pivote behind him, this was the one game where Guti should have stuck to the final third, looking for space to put throughballs to. If Guti had done it only once or twice, I would have thought maybe it wasn't Juande's fault. But Guti did that the entire half, so it was clear that Juande instructed him to drop deep to bring the ball out, even though getting the ball into Liverpool's half was not a problem for us at any stage during the game. It was after we passed their half that we ran into the great wall of China.

But of course, it's not Juande's fault that we don't have a creative CM, which is absolutely crucial for this type of game. This is why I've been calling for us to splash the cash for Fabregas for quite some time now, because we desperately need a player like him. At least in their doble pivote Liverpool had Alonso, who may not be the most creative player but at least has excellent long range passes and can play the ball very quickly. Gago was given that function yesterday, and he failed miserably yet again.

Tweedle wrote:I think its fair to say that the belief that defences in Serie A are seen as better than EPL defences can be put to rest

I'd even go as far as sayng that the current EPL top 4 defences are better than the defences in the peak of the Serie A years.

Big difference there. Most Premiership defenses consist of orangutans who don't know the meaning of low passes. They get dribbled very easily and have no technique whatsoever.

Machiavel wrote:What did Diarra do yesterday? Real Madrid need goals!

As the game progressed, I couldn’t see how Real were going to score past Liverpool, the same goes for the second leg.

I thought Diarra was good yesterday in defence. I won't foult him too much becaues he is performing the Makelele role and while I wasn't a big fan of Makelele because he could only pass sideways these players can be useful. We do need goals but reality is that nowadays Cl style teams are too hard to break down unless you have great quality.

So I wouldn't mind if Perez can get some galaticos back in the team because that is the only option or simply resort to the same boring style that everybody else uses.

Tweedle
Is that because the defences are great or because few teams really try to attack. I mean from the opinions I read about EPL this season it has been that too many teams are negative.
I will use the example of Liverpool against Milan in the Cl final in 2005.
Up untill that point Liverpool had been great in defence but mostly because they defended with alot of players and didn't attack that much really.
So everybody praised them but in the final when Milan got a goal early Milan took their defence apart most of the game because Liverpool couldn't play with soo many players in defence since it was a final. Suddenly the defence that was hailed all over looked very easy to open.

Machiavel wrote:What did Diarra do yesterday? Real Madrid need goals!

As the game progressed, I couldn’t see how Real were going to score past Liverpool, the same goes for the second leg.

Diarra was one of out best players. He gave the ball away too much in the first half, but he was always solid defensively and his passing improved a lot in the second half.

I agree with the latter part. In the first half, we actually looked quite solid with the 4-4-2 we were playing with, but Juande's gamble to change the lineup to accomodate Guti failed miserably. I could see why he did tried it, but that cross-dressing c**t fucked us over again with another spiritless performance.

An obvious substitution last night would have been taking off Raul for either Sneijder or VDV (despite the bad form of the latter 2),but after the last 2-3 weeks Raul has earned his "90 minute bonus" for the rest of the season so it was clear this wouldn't happen.

Torrente wrote:

Tweedle wrote:I think its fair to say that the belief that defences in Serie A are seen as better than EPL defences can be put to rest

I'd even go as far as sayng that the current EPL top 4 defences are better than the defences in the peak of the Serie A years.

Big difference there. Most Premiership defenses consist of orangutans who don't know the meaning of low passes. They get dribbled very easily and have no technique whatsoever.

Funny how all the top four struggle to score against them then

Torrente wrote:@Jaime

The point I'm making is that Ramos had Guti dropping behind the midfield line to bring the ball up, which made no sense whatsoever. With a doble pivote behind him, this was the one game where Guti should have stuck to the final third, looking for space to put throughballs to. If Guti had done it only once or twice, I would have thought maybe it wasn't Juande's fault. But Guti did that the entire half, so it was clear that Juande instructed him to drop deep to bring the ball out, even though getting the ball into Liverpool's half was not a problem for us at any stage during the game. It was after we passed their half that we ran into the great wall of China.

But of course, it's not Juande's fault that we don't have a creative CM, which is absolutely crucial for this type of game. This is why I've been calling for us to splash the cash for Fabregas for quite some time now, because we desperately need a player like him. At least in their doble pivote Liverpool had Alonso, who may not be the most creative player but at least has excellent long range passes and can play the ball very quickly. Gago was given that function yesterday, and he failed miserably yet again.

I agree with that but I have no idea if Guti actually does anything a coach tells him or somply what he wants to do. Im beginning to question whether Gago has what it takes because he hasn't been a creative outlet in midfield as we hoped, a la Redondo. At the moment I would even give a chance to Parejo because I can't be bothered playing a double pivot and getting nowhere. Then I would rather go all out and rely on a single Dm and the rest can attack and hope the defence can handle it.

Tweedle wrote:

Torrente wrote:

Tweedle wrote:I think its fair to say that the belief that defences in Serie A are seen as better than EPL defences can be put to rest

I'd even go as far as sayng that the current EPL top 4 defences are better than the defences in the peak of the Serie A years.

Big difference there. Most Premiership defenses consist of orangutans who don't know the meaning of low passes. They get dribbled very easily and have no technique whatsoever.

Funny how all the top four struggle to score against them then

This gets us back the point I raised in my post about teams now packing so heavily that it is hard to get through. Also it is not like the top 4 in England has the most creative players either you know. Even Arsenal look lost of ideas.

Tweedle wrote:

Torrente wrote:

Tweedle wrote:I think its fair to say that the belief that defences in Serie A are seen as better than EPL defences can be put to rest

I'd even go as far as sayng that the current EPL top 4 defences are better than the defences in the peak of the Serie A years.

Big difference there. Most Premiership defenses consist of orangutans who don't know the meaning of low passes. They get dribbled very easily and have no technique whatsoever.

Funny how all the top four struggle to score against them then

But the current crop of EPL top 4 teams don't have a great attack, that's the big problem. ManU attacks decently, but they're hardly the 90s attacking team we all loved to watch. Chelsea can only attack well when teams open up, Adebayor's low form has meant that Arsenal has struggled to score this season, and no point of even mentioning Liverpool...

But of course, a lot of the time it's inevitable for teams to struggle when the opposition has 9 men in front of the box, which is basically the norm for most EPL teams when playing away. If you turn your entire team into a human wall in front of the penalty area, you're bound to at least defend somewhat decently.

Super Madrid wrote:

Tweedle wrote:

Torrente wrote:

Tweedle wrote:I think its fair to say that the belief that defences in Serie A are seen as better than EPL defences can be put to rest

I'd even go as far as sayng that the current EPL top 4 defences are better than the defences in the peak of the Serie A years.

Big difference there. Most Premiership defenses consist of orangutans who don't know the meaning of low passes. They get dribbled very easily and have no technique whatsoever.

Funny how all the top four struggle to score against them then

This gets us back the point I raised in my post about teams now packing so heavily that it is hard to get through. Also it is not like the top 4 in England has the most creative players either you know. Even Arsenal look lost of ideas.

We had over twenty shots at the Roma goal. That's hardly 'out of ideas'.

and Torrente, judging by the performances of the last two nights, the attacking threat of the EPL top four is far better than that of their counterparts.

Saying that EPL defences are basically orangutans with no skill is a hopelessly outdated and quite frankly obsolete comment.

no surprise to see all the non english people complaining about our domination of the CL.

doubt we'd be hearing the same if it was la liga or serie a.