Real Madrid Vs. Liverpool Discussion Thread

Six wrote:

Torrente wrote:

Six wrote:

Julio Ricardo CruZZZ wrote:

Tweedle wrote:

Calidad wrote:

I'm not sure it's the personnel though. Are Arbeloa (granted Ramos had a shocker), Babel, Aurelio, Kuyt, etc really better than their Madrid counterparts? I'm not so sure.

Probably not.

But look at Liverpool's central midfield - alonso, masch and gerrard. Three top class players who piss all over Real's central midfielders. And that's where the game was won.

Also Carragher and Srktel may not be fashionable names, but they're a great centre back pairing. Compare that to Pepe-Cannavaro. Pepe is top class, Cannavaro is shite.

Pool were faster, stronger & wanted it more. That's made the difference. If you overpower the opposition like Pool did to Real, you bound to outplay them too in the end.

I'm not saying it had nothing to do with other football abilities, but it's was children v grown men what decided it.

How on earth could Real's players be so casual / take too long on the ball when playing an English club. You should bloody know you've to play 1 touch.

Don't think the difference has a lot to do with individual football abilities, it's mainly a much much better physicaly & mentally prepared team. It was 21st century v 20 century...

That's exactly what I was trying to Madrid fans after the first leg. Hopefully this will be somewhat of a wake up call for Madrid and they can finally give up their stubborn nostalgia of how football should be played.

The fans will NEVER give up on this so called nostalgia. It's ingrained in Real Madrid as much as anything else. Attacking football is part of the club's identity, and the fans will never be fully content unless the team plays champaign football, even if titles are won.

Last night's failure was hardly anything to do with playing naive attacking football. We were playing with 2 DMs, a left wing consisting of a fullback who doesn't know how to attack (or defend for that matter) and a media punta who always drifted to the center (Sneijder).

You can bet that after Florentino Perez takes over next year, you will see another attempt at recreating the pre-2005 football Real Madrid used to play. Playing with 2 DMs should be outlawed at all times, and there should always be at least one creative midfielder in the lineup. If a fullback is not good enough to at least attack from time to time, then he can fuck off as well.

I would rather the team fail in attempting this than conforming that we have to start playing as the likes of Mourinho, Capello and Benitez (though I must admit the latter employed ultra-offensive tactics yesterday).

You can still play attacking football. It's just compromising in certain areas in order to make it easier for your attacking players, instead of just putting them all out there and hoping for the best. It's little things, such as having a player like Alonso instead of a player like Guti. You may call him a DM, but he is a better passer than anyone at Liverpool or Madrid. Again, compromise in this area, and make up for it by having your fullbacks get much further forward. Raul has to go, and should be replaced by someone more Eto'o and less Huntelaar. There's so many of these points to make. Really, as much as you may hate it, Madrid have to look at Barca because they have adapted to modern football far better than Madrid have.

If I were Madrid, I would break the bank to get Wenger (or whoever) and give him plenty of support and time. Club needs stability and just to get back to basics.

But this only happened in the end of the Galactico era. This is not what caused our downfall this time. Guti has barely even played this season, only starting 2 games out of the last 12. And everybody knows that Guti is an attacking midfielder/support striker turned CM due to our lack of creative players. You will rarely find any Madrid fan who advocates that Guti should start games. Despite all his talent the guy has always been a super sub, but never good enough to start games on a regular basis. Calderon himself called him the "eternal promise".

And regarding Alonso, I would happily take him as our DM. But I would want him to play next to somebody like Cesc Fabregas or Xavi, rather than somebody like Lass Diarra or Macherano. But yes, I'm sure Alonso would have done a lot better than Gago if he had played ahead of Lass instead of him, simply because Gago is not a creative midfielder and has rarely any attacking assets to his game.

With Raul you're preaching to the quire. I've been calling for us to get rid of him for at least 3-4 years. And I already said I didn't mind if we sold Huntelaar despite his goals because we need a different type of striker (like Benzema or Eto') rather than another goal poacher.

So I don't see how the Madrid "nostalgia" has anything to do with our situation. If you think that our idea of nostalgia is to play with 2 DMs, fullbacks who can't attack, and with no creative midfielder then you couldn't be any more far off.

The HuddFather wrote:I can see what people are getting at though when they "complain" about the direction the EPL teams are forcing the elite level of football in.

15 years ago a side with Villareal's makeup would've had every chance of winning the CL, nowadays they don't.

Percentages dominate everything; who wins the aerial ciontest, who gets the loose ball 1st, who pressurises the best, who can force a mistake, and generate a chance where there'll be deflections/rebounds.

Not much room for smaller fantasy players who like to play the perfect pass & shoot for the corner.

Liverpool were great to watch for their sheer intensity, the hunted for the ball in packs, forcing Madrid to cough up possession and then stormed forward in numbers. There was nothing deliberate or crafted about it, Rather than take a well-sharpened samurai sword to Madrid, or a well planned out hit job, it was more of a brutal strangulation, Liverpool wasted no time, not giving Madrid the chance have a stab at them, and instead just grabbed them by the throat from the moment the 1st whistle sounded, and didn't let go until the breathing stopped.

That's about as well as I've seen it put... I don't think I can recall seeing 'Pool start out with that level of intensity in any other match I've seen. After 45 seconds, when I'm usually easing into the game and wondering if my beer is full enough to last the half, I was completely riveted to the tv. While RM obviously didn't play very well yesterday, I think any team would have been hard pressed to fend off the sort of pressure Liverpool were applying. I hope to see similar action when we play the dirty mancs at the weekend.

Have to say I was suprised to see that Rafa did not take Gerrard and Torres off after we went up 3-0... Seems like an extra 40 minutes of match time for each when the tie was obviously out of reach for RM. Doesn't seem like he's really found the balance to focus on both the league and the CL. Wonder if he was even thinking about Saturday...

Boluda was right about one thing though... 5 goals on aggregate!

Olé wrote:Say No to PGD.

Jorge Valdano wrote:Chelsea and Liverpool are the clearest, most exaggerated example of the way football is going: very intense, very collective, very tactical, very physical, and very direct," he added. "But, a short pass? Noooo. A feint? Noooo. A change of pace? Noooo. A one-two? A nutmeg? A backheel? Don't be ridiculous. None of that. The extreme control and seriousness with which both teams played the semi-final (Champion's League) neutralised any creative licence, any moments of exquisite skill.

If Didier Drogba was the best player in the first match it was purely because he was the one who ran the fastest, jumped the highest and crashed into people the hardest. Such extreme intensity wipes away talent, even leaving a player of Joe Cole's class disoriented. If football is going the way Chelsea and Liverpool are taking it, we had better be ready to wave goodbye to any expression of the cleverness and talent we have enjoyed for a century.

I posted this two weeks ago and even though it was said 2 years ago it most certainly applies today.

However im not of the belief that it is impossible to play slow football if you have the brains. The problem is that we don't the brains or even an idea of how we actually want to play. Milan showed for me two years ago that is most certainly possible piss on all the rules and still win.
Milan consisted of slow and old players with only one fast player in Kaka. They tried keeping the ball and controlling the pace and they outplayed teams that were younger and more fit then them. So it was victory for the style of football I long for. So hopefully Perez will bring back the values you need high quality for it as Milan did or else it will the same as we have had in the last many years.

Axeslammer wrote:

The HuddFather wrote:
The Russian ref in the Holland-Portugal game was so bad he made it more entertaining match, as Poll did with his infamous 3 card trick on Simunic.

Would you believe I've completely forgotten all about that match and that idiotic clown Ivanov

Both Holland and Portugal have had more than 5 match-altering decisions gone wrongly against them in that match, that was madness from the highest order


....and I'm still convinced Van Bastard gave our players the order to kick the Portuguese around....the fucking retarded idiot !

That is rubbish. Blame the ref when its the players who went round kicking everyone. He should've given figo a straight red (not a yellow) otherwise everyone of those yellows and cumulative reds was justified.

Super Madrid wrote:

Olé wrote:Say No to PGD.

Jorge Valdano wrote:Chelsea and Liverpool are the clearest, most exaggerated example of the way football is going: very intense, very collective, very tactical, very physical, and very direct," he added. "But, a short pass? Noooo. A feint? Noooo. A change of pace? Noooo. A one-two? A nutmeg? A backheel? Don't be ridiculous. None of that. The extreme control and seriousness with which both teams played the semi-final (Champion's League) neutralised any creative licence, any moments of exquisite skill.

If Didier Drogba was the best player in the first match it was purely because he was the one who ran the fastest, jumped the highest and crashed into people the hardest. Such extreme intensity wipes away talent, even leaving a player of Joe Cole's class disoriented. If football is going the way Chelsea and Liverpool are taking it, we had better be ready to wave goodbye to any expression of the cleverness and talent we have enjoyed for a century.

I posted this two weeks ago and even though it was said 2 years ago it most certainly applies today.

However im not of the belief that it is impossible to play slow football if you have the brains. The problem is that we don't the brains or even an idea of how we actually want to play. Milan showed for me two years ago that is most certainly possible piss on all the rules and still win.
Milan consisted of slow and old players with only one fast player in Kaka. They tried keeping the ball and controlling the pace and they outplayed teams that were younger and more fit then them. So it was victory for the style of football I long for. So hopefully Perez will bring back the values you need high quality for it as Milan did or else it will the same as we have had in the last many years.

I have never understood this. All liverpool and chelsea did was harry and pressure the opposition. A good player makes space. A good team can hold onto the ball under pressure. If you need all this time and space to play creative football you're not as good as you think.

Glennathinaikos wrote:

The HuddFather wrote:Apart from Mascherano's booking, none of the decisions were truly critical.

the penalty? Heinze's booking? Gerrard's booking? Looked like Real could have had a penalty in the 2nd half?

Pepe could have been sent off as well, he made a number of second bookable offences but was let off by the ref.

Khadrim wrote:

Axeslammer wrote:

The HuddFather wrote:
The Russian ref in the Holland-Portugal game was so bad he made it more entertaining match, as Poll did with his infamous 3 card trick on Simunic.

Would you believe I've completely forgotten all about that match and that idiotic clown Ivanov

Both Holland and Portugal have had more than 5 match-altering decisions gone wrongly against them in that match, that was madness from the highest order


....and I'm still convinced Van Bastard gave our players the order to kick the Portuguese around....the fucking retarded idiot !

That is rubbish. Blame the ref when its the players who went round kicking everyone. He should've given figo a straight red (not a yellow) otherwise everyone of those yellows and cumulative reds was justified.

what about Boulahrouz's disgusting kuck-fu stud kick on Ronaldo's thigh? etc etc.

It was an utterly brutal (if strangely mesmerizing) match, and to just lay into the ref for not being able to control players who were so far out of line it's just ridiculous is more than a little unfair in my world.

What about criticizing those players who one after the other let down their team in the stupidest and most unforgivable way, on the greatest stage, by needlessly ceding a man advantage to the opposition??

But no, it's everyone's fault but the players and the teams themselves

Allez les rouges wrote:

Khadrim wrote:

Axeslammer wrote:

The HuddFather wrote:
The Russian ref in the Holland-Portugal game was so bad he made it more entertaining match, as Poll did with his infamous 3 card trick on Simunic.

Would you believe I've completely forgotten all about that match and that idiotic clown Ivanov

Both Holland and Portugal have had more than 5 match-altering decisions gone wrongly against them in that match, that was madness from the highest order


....and I'm still convinced Van Bastard gave our players the order to kick the Portuguese around....the fucking retarded idiot !

That is rubbish. Blame the ref when its the players who went round kicking everyone. He should've given figo a straight red (not a yellow) otherwise everyone of those yellows and cumulative reds was justified.

what about Boulahrouz's disgusting kuck-fu stud kick on Ronaldo's thigh? etc etc.

It was an utterly brutal (if strangely mesmerizing) match, and to just lay into the ref for not being able to control players who were so far out of line it's just ridiculous is more than a little unfair in my world.

What about criticizing those players who one after the other let down their team in the stupidest and most unforgivable way, on the greatest stage, by needlessly ceding a man advantage to the opposition??

But no, it's everyone's fault but the players and the teams themselves

it's true, the players acted like dicks, and it's probably one of the top 10 matches I've ever seen, but they only did what the Ref allowed them to get away with. He was awfully petty in the early stages, but that was a consistent theme in the competition with every official.

As soon as he showed inconsistency by allowing Boulah to stay on the field for that attack on Ronaldo, all bets were off, and he made it quite easy to lose control & for chaos to ensue.

Doesn't matter now, but anyone who still thinks Liverpool played "positive football" in the 1st leg, read this, directly from the horse's mouth:

"My team knew what to do. We had to play on the counter-attack in the Bernabeu and try to score from set-pieces.

http://football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_5037642,00.html