GERMANY has catched italy in the 5years ranking

Congratulations. They couldn't have done it without you.

Hmmmm...


Italy - 75% of the time they are shit, 25% of the time they are brilliant.

Germany - never bad, never good, always average.


Which should be rewarded more - 2 wins in the last 4 CL's or no wins in 10 years ?

Italy won a WC with only Serie A players (4.5 years is not a long time ago when talking World Cups) - you'll be waiting a long time for anyone to win a tournie only with Bundesliga (Diet EPL) players.

There's probably more chance of Holland doing it than Germany.

Pierre Littbarski wrote:Hmmmm...


Italy - 75% of the time they are shit, 25% of the time they are brilliant.

Germany - never bad, never good, always average.


Which should be rewarded more - 2 wins in the last 4 CL's or no wins in 10 years ?

Italy won a WC with only Serie A players (4.5 years is not a long time ago when talking World Cups) - you'll be waiting a long time for anyone to win a tournie only with Bundesliga (Diet EPL) players.

There's probably more chance of Holland doing it than Germany.

I don't have the figures, but i'd imagine it's the poor Europa League/UEFA cup showings that cost Serie A it's 4th place. Bundesliga has done very well in that competition in recent years, especially because many of their reject CL teams drop down into it. In terms of actual CL performance, i'd imagine Serie A has done better.

IMO Bundesliga should get an Extra Europa League place (at the expense of Serie A). Don't see why they deserve an extra CL place.

just stop it, every league knows the rules, they havent changed since years

Inters record in the last 5 years is shocking, only last season they made huge points for italy in the CL

the big acmilan years over since 2007, so the CL points for italy in the last 5 years hardly better too germanys

in addition to that its only logical to get CL places for EL points otherwise it would be very very hard to break into the top 3. With the huge CL money nowadays how could you compete otherwise?

I think the system is ok as it is without being biased because germany is one of teh benefitter actually.

Is the Bundesliga that good, that the nr 5 and the nr 10 of the Bundesliga make the QF's of the CL!??

Fey wrote:Is the Bundesliga that good, that the nr 5 and the nr 10 of the Bundesliga make the QF's of the CL!??

indeed



10th in Germany (Bundesliga) is in the top 8 in Europe ( CL )

does that mean that GERMANY is now TOO BIG, GOOD and IMPORTANT for Europa ???

mein weiss es nicht

I have written an article analysing how long it might take Serie A to claw back the 3rd spot, if at all. Also whether Germany could possibly overtake Spain in UEFA Rankings. Do leave your comments over there...

http://footballspeak.com/post/2011/07/21/UEFA-Coefficients-Explained.aspx

nice summary, still theres nothing i didnt already know

but there still some points which dont speak for the italien league, and heavily speak for the german league

so its hard to predict which way the leagues will go

- bet mafia
- old arenas
- compared to the past lack of money
- uefa ffp
- tactically the italien league is behind the german league
- lack of italien top talent
- i dont think that the italien mentality will change when it comes to europa league

and the german teams now filled with german players, so they can grow together and built better teams for the cl, because homegrown players have a more intensive link to there clubs than foreign players, so the chance is bigger that there will be more consistency in the german top flight

Mainz dropping out already is... unfortunate.

palermo too

Wow, did not know that... guess it balances out then! Perhaps more in our favour, since it was doubtful whether Mainz were gonna go anywhere in the first place...

Kroos wrote:palermo too

Don't worry, Germany are safe for 3-4 years at least. I have analysed this in detail here:

http://footballspeak.com/post/2011/07/21/UEFA-Coefficients-Explained.aspx

Hey nice article & nice website.

We want to make sure we stay ahead of Italy for at least the next FIVE years... so this year will count, too.

Italy have to be careful, otherwise they might be overtaken by France next season even. Fast forward to next year, and as it currently stands, Italy are only 0.5 points ahead of France!

Code:


1    England    15.000    17.928    18.357    3.875    0.000    55.160    0
2    Spain    13.312    17.928    18.214    3.142    0.000    52.596    0
3    Germany    12.687    18.083    15.666    2.916    0.000    49.352    0
4    Italy    11.375    15.428    11.571    2.214    0.000    40.588    0
5    France    11.000    15.000    10.750    3.333    0.000    40.083    0
6    Portugal    6.785    10.000    18.800    3.000    0.000    38.585    0

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2013.html

Portugal isn't that far behind either (2 points).

blutgraetsche wrote:Italy have to be careful, otherwise they might be overtaken by France next season even. Fast forward to next year, and as it currently stands, Italy are only 0.5 points ahead of France!

Code:


1    England    15.000    17.928    18.357    3.875    0.000    55.160    0
2    Spain    13.312    17.928    18.214    3.142    0.000    52.596    0
3    Germany    12.687    18.083    15.666    2.916    0.000    49.352    0
4    Italy    11.375    15.428    11.571    2.214    0.000    40.588    0
5    France    11.000    15.000    10.750    3.333    0.000    40.083    0
6    Portugal    6.785    10.000    18.800    3.000    0.000    38.585    0

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2013.html

Portugal isn't that far behind either (2 points).

Remember that Portugal was 9th two years ago and if they are continueing like this they'll catch Italy and France... Impressive for a country with 10 mln citizens (and Brasil + Argentina in their backyard)

lways thought Apoel was a top team....



1 APOEL Nicosia Cyp CL 0.00 0.00 4.00 4.00 0.8750 4.8750
2 Viktoria Plzen Cze CL 0.00 0.00 4.00 4.00 0.8000 4.8000
3 Arsenal Eng CL 0.00 0.00 4.00 4.00 0.7750 4.7750
Manchester City Eng CL 0.00 0.00 4.00 4.00 0.7750 4.7750
Manchester United Eng CL 0.00 0.00 4.00 4.00 0.7750 4.7750
Chelsea Eng CL 0.00 0.00 4.00 4.00 0.7750 4.7750
7 Dinamo Zagreb Cro CL 0.00 0.00 4.00 4.00 0.7500 4.7500
8 Olympique Lyon Fra CL 0.00 0.00 4.00 4.00 0.6666 4.6666
Lille OSC Fra CL 0.00 0.00 4.00 4.00 0.6666 4.6666
Olympique Marseille Fra CL 0.00 0.00 4.00 4.00 0.6666 4.6666


Love those UEFA rankings


:cveers:

Ricardo Jol wrote:

blutgraetsche wrote:Italy have to be careful, otherwise they might be overtaken by France next season even. Fast forward to next year, and as it currently stands, Italy are only 0.5 points ahead of France!

Code:


1    England    15.000    17.928    18.357    3.875    0.000    55.160    0
2    Spain    13.312    17.928    18.214    3.142    0.000    52.596    0
3    Germany    12.687    18.083    15.666    2.916    0.000    49.352    0
4    Italy    11.375    15.428    11.571    2.214    0.000    40.588    0
5    France    11.000    15.000    10.750    3.333    0.000    40.083    0
6    Portugal    6.785    10.000    18.800    3.000    0.000    38.585    0

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2013.html

Portugal isn't that far behind either (2 points).

Remember that Portugal was 9th two years ago and if they are continueing like this they'll catch Italy and France... Impressive for a country with 10 mln citizens (and Brasil + Argentina in their backyard)

I was always a bit jealous that they had more money to spend than the Eredivisie. The main difference is that Eredivisie was severly weakened (poached dry) + the new playoff system resulted that the Dutch big boys were more fragile and their dominance not 'guarenteed'. Mismanagement of the top clubs didn't help either (Feyenoord, PSV, Ajax).
The money well dried when the big clubs (partly through the playoff system) failed to get to Europe, or imploded halfway there (Ajax). The teams that did go to Europe simply weren't good enough - some never were (e.g., Den Haag). Succeeding in Europe has been made more difficult since every Dutch team with a modicum of a succes has been cannabalised in the off season, thus the team in a new season (in particular the start of) didn't resemble anything of the previous year. These cadavers of their succesful seasons (not even all of them were good - tx playoffs ) go on to embaress us in Europe. There is simply no stability to build upon anything over here.

The Portuguese league, as a somewhat kindred league in the sense that both of us have a rich history and pedigree but have always been just outside the Big 3-4 leagues, has more revenue than the Dutch one. The lack of the farcical and backfiring play off system has more or less kept the wealthy at the top. This might not make for an exciting prospect in the league every year, but consistency and continiuety in Europe keeps the titles and cash rolling in. Even if it only goes to the usual suspects. The league doesn't suffer though.
The moments of glory of Porto in Europe in the last decade have certainly contributed to it as well. Who could say what would have happened (to Portugal or the general game) if Mourinho never got that far in the Europe Cup/League, or were fortunate in the CL.

They were fortunate, but it was deserved. And so is the praise of the Portuguese league. I still kind of look at them and wonder a bunch of "what ifs" regarding the Eredivisie. The cost of mismanagement is a big one.

blutgraetsche wrote:Italy have to be careful, otherwise they might be overtaken by France next season even. Fast forward to next year, and as it currently stands, Italy are only 0.5 points ahead of France!

Code:


1    England    15.000    17.928    18.357    3.875    0.000    55.160    0
2    Spain    13.312    17.928    18.214    3.142    0.000    52.596    0
3    Germany    12.687    18.083    15.666    2.916    0.000    49.352    0
4    Italy    11.375    15.428    11.571    2.214    0.000    40.588    0
5    France    11.000    15.000    10.750    3.333    0.000    40.083    0
6    Portugal    6.785    10.000    18.800    3.000    0.000    38.585    0

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2013.html

Portugal isn't that far behind either (2 points).

You told me in the Europe League thread that Germany had been outperforming / catching England over the last 5 years in the rankings. and I simply took you at your word, as that is the honourable kind of guy I am.

Now it turns out you're a dishonourable and duplicitous liar, whispering down dark tunnels with your dagger hidden beneath your cloak:

What I see is that in the last 5 years, only the 09/10 season did the BL acquire more, and that was close, whilst it hasn't even be worthy of comparison in the years before or prior.

Explain yourself Lady Macbeth!

Easy, tiger. You collect UEFA coefficient points for both, CL and EL football, actually slightly more for the CL matches combined, and the EPL has of course been much better in the CL than the Bundesliga.

Germans always tell ze truth even when they are lying.

So how has the BL been outperforming the EPL then, given the coefficient points come in one overall package, not in little seperate servings like a Spanish tapas??!

I'm going to be sleeping with one eye open from now on. Treachery

I said that the BL had been outperforming the EPL in the UEFA Cup / EL. And that's just ze simple truth. If you don't trust my word, trust logics: How else could have the Bundesliga collected almost as many points as the EPL for many years when the BL clubs were clearly worse in the CL?

blutgraetsche wrote:I said that the BL had been outperforming the EPL in the UEFA Cup / EL. And that's just ze simple truth. If you don't trust my word, trust logics: How else could have the Bundesliga collected almost as many points as the EPL for many years when the BL clubs were clearly worse in the CL?

That was never in doubt though - thanks to having your CL teams filtering down into the EL.

EL is the Bundesliga level, at least we're in agreement

tottenham is also EL level

liverpool too

arsenal too

there is no top 4 anymore in england, its just a top 3

DECLINE

How is Arsenal EL level when they've been playing in the CL KO stages every season since god knows when

yeah last season they were top4 side

but NOW without cesc, nasri, clichy and the PEDO as coach, no way

Noah und der Bale wrote:
That was never in doubt though - thanks to having your CL teams filtering down into the EL.

EL is the Bundesliga level, at least we're in agreement

Which means as a consequence that the EL level is too high for most of the EPL clubs bar the top 3-4.

Without the sheikhs, oligarchs and billion Asian 'fans', you'd be NOTHING!

Er, for all the German dominance of this competition, when did a German team last win it? How many finalists in the past 5,6 years?

German clubs have been good at grinding out the coefficient points in the group stages & early rounds, but disappear when it matters. Bremen got in the final a couple years back and then you have to go back to 2002 to find the next German team. There's been as many Scottish as German finalists in the past 10 years. The last time a German side won it, the final was played over two legs ffs

You can hardly call it 'disappearing' when we had an all German semi final in that year. German teams usually make the later rounds of the competition regularly. Should have won it once or twice in recent times though, that is true. BUT WE ARE WORKING ON IT. WITH OUR OWN MONEY, FROM OUR OWN POCKETS, PAID BY OUR OWN BRATWURSTS.

P.S.: With all the 'English dominance' in the CL, how often did you actually win the competition? Pot, cattle, ginger.