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kas wrote:My question at the end of my post was rhetorical, I don't actually want to keep Gudjohnsen. He offers nothing to the team - definitely not goals. But as Calidad says, it's ridiculous to lose him on a free - we may not need him, but West Ham do, so let them pay. Like the Etoo deal, I support the club in terms of the sporting decision, but disagree with the financial side of it.


@Jaime: there's a difference between having a good academy that gradually produces players for the first team, and having a squad that's getting dangerously close to the Arsenal model.

Gudjohnsen and Chyrgynsky are two separate cases here - you're right in saying that the former's 10 min cameos and Copa games can be replaced by someone like Thiago (who has impressive passing ability when there's no pressure on him, and good movement into open space to receive the ball, but needs to work on the defensive side of the game).

But in defense, we only have Puyol-Pique-Marquez for the middle, and Alves for the RB spot. Perhaps Henrique, but it looks like his signing is another mini-disaster (that is a separate issue in itself).
Marquez is injury prone, and let's not forget that either him or Pique may be needed as DM during the African Cup. So Chyrgynsky would be strengthening an important position and would get quite a bit of playing time.

You really think we can go through the upcoming congested season with such a small squad? Just 17 or 18 first team players, and the rest are kids with no experience and definitely a big deficiency in terms of being able to handle the physical level of first division games. It's one thing to play Muniesa for the odd game here and there, another to have to start with him for 5 games in a row. As Pep said, you can't put too much pressure on kids too early.

Calidad wrote:I think the main problem behind the Chyrgynsky signing is that he is Shaktar's captain and already a fixture in his national side. I'm not sure he wants to give that up to sit on the Barca bench.

There is definitely an argument that a club's 4th choice CB could/should be an academy player given they have the talent, though I accept the admission that Marquez is increasingly injury prone.

The forgotten man in all of this appears to be Milito. Perhaps his career is over.

Jaime wrote:

kas wrote:My question at the end of my post was rhetorical, I don't actually want to keep Gudjohnsen. He offers nothing to the team - definitely not goals. But as Calidad says, it's ridiculous to lose him on a free - we may not need him, but West Ham do, so let them pay. Like the Etoo deal, I support the club in terms of the sporting decision, but disagree with the financial side of it.


@Jaime: there's a difference between having a good academy that gradually produces players for the first team, and having a squad that's getting dangerously close to the Arsenal model.

Gudjohnsen and Chyrgynsky are two separate cases here - you're right in saying that the former's 10 min cameos and Copa games can be replaced by someone like Thiago (who has impressive passing ability when there's no pressure on him, and good movement into open space to receive the ball, but needs to work on the defensive side of the game).

But in defense, we only have Puyol-Pique-Marquez for the middle, and Alves for the RB spot. Perhaps Henrique, but it looks like his signing is another mini-disaster (that is a separate issue in itself).
Marquez is injury prone, and let's not forget that either him or Pique may be needed as DM during the African Cup. So Chyrgynsky would be strengthening an important position and would get quite a bit of playing time.

You really think we can go through the upcoming congested season with such a small squad? Just 17 or 18 first team players, and the rest are kids with no experience and definitely a big deficiency in terms of being able to handle the physical level of first division games. It's one thing to play Muniesa for the odd game here and there, another to have to start with him for 5 games in a row. As Pep said, you can't put too much pressure on kids too early.

From a financial point of view, how much do you really think you can get for 31 year old whose contract is set to expire and is not really an important player in the team? You'd be better to just let him go and save the ridiculous 60K per week that he is on.

As for the squad, Pique and Puyol aren't injury prone at all. Plus you have Marquez plus you have Toure in a pinch. Then you can have Muniesa and Fontas, who for me is actually the better of the two. You've already wasted good money on Caceres and Henrique and now you want to go sign some Ukrainain fella to be your third or fourth choice? What is the point?

kas wrote:

Jaime wrote:

kas wrote:My question at the end of my post was rhetorical, I don't actually want to keep Gudjohnsen. He offers nothing to the team - definitely not goals. But as Calidad says, it's ridiculous to lose him on a free - we may not need him, but West Ham do, so let them pay. Like the Etoo deal, I support the club in terms of the sporting decision, but disagree with the financial side of it.


@Jaime: there's a difference between having a good academy that gradually produces players for the first team, and having a squad that's getting dangerously close to the Arsenal model.

Gudjohnsen and Chyrgynsky are two separate cases here - you're right in saying that the former's 10 min cameos and Copa games can be replaced by someone like Thiago (who has impressive passing ability when there's no pressure on him, and good movement into open space to receive the ball, but needs to work on the defensive side of the game).

But in defense, we only have Puyol-Pique-Marquez for the middle, and Alves for the RB spot. Perhaps Henrique, but it looks like his signing is another mini-disaster (that is a separate issue in itself).
Marquez is injury prone, and let's not forget that either him or Pique may be needed as DM during the African Cup. So Chyrgynsky would be strengthening an important position and would get quite a bit of playing time.

You really think we can go through the upcoming congested season with such a small squad? Just 17 or 18 first team players, and the rest are kids with no experience and definitely a big deficiency in terms of being able to handle the physical level of first division games. It's one thing to play Muniesa for the odd game here and there, another to have to start with him for 5 games in a row. As Pep said, you can't put too much pressure on kids too early.

From a financial point of view, how much do you really think you can get for 31 year old whose contract is set to expire and is not really an important player in the team? You'd be better to just let him go and save the ridiculous 60K per week that he is on.

As for the squad, Pique and Puyol aren't injury prone at all. Plus you have Marquez plus you have Toure in a pinch. Then you can have Muniesa and Fontas, who for me is actually the better of the two. You've already wasted good money on Caceres and Henrique and now you want to go sign some Ukrainain fella to be your third or fourth choice? What is the point?

If you spread the 12m signing fee over his 4 year contract, he's still worth 3m. Let's say we reduce it by a pretty big value of 30% because he's not a key player and is 31 years old...that's still 2m.

For someone who West Ham have pursued all summer, and has a track record in the Premier League, and considering West Ham are paying 5m or more for other possible strikers, I don't think it's a big ask.

Jaime wrote:Just about made it through? Man U were champions of the EPL, finalists in the CL, champions of the League Cup, and lost in the semifinals of the FA Cup on penalties. That's a bit better than "just making it through".

kas wrote:

Jaime wrote:Just about made it through? Man U were champions of the EPL, finalists in the CL, champions of the League Cup, and lost in the semifinals of the FA Cup on penalties. That's a bit better than "just making it through".

That's what I mean...they survived the season and did well because their squad was so large. Despite that, towards the end in some games their defense was getting pretty threadbare. Currently we don't have that luxury...example to prove my earlier point: Rafael looked impressive when he played, but did also make mistakes in his games. Muniesa or Fontas will be the same.

Jaime wrote:Just say that you are wrong.

Going back to the Man U example. They lost on penalties in the FA Cup semi final - it's not like their youngsters went out and looked like schoolboys losing 0-6 or something like this. On a different day with different luck they could have easily won that game as well.

But look, if you want to buy a bunch of players that you will only end up complaining about (e.g. Gudjohnsen) in a few months/years then fine by me.

kas wrote:Jaime, what am I wrong about...that we need a larger squad?

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From today's news it looks like Chygrynsky will be signed, for a figure close to 25m euros (including add-ons)
He better live up to his tag of being the next Beckenbauer.

Poulsen will only come in January, if at all (and I assume it'll be dependent on the Milito situation). And Jeffren may stay with the team till Jan as well.

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And MD says that Bojan's goal against Athletic was illegal, because he had his hand on the post while scoring. That's exactly what I was wondering when he scored it, but assumed it was ok because many times defenders who are positioned on the posts for a corner, have their hands on the goal frame as well.

kas wrote:Jaime, what am I wrong about...that we need a larger squad?

Jaime wrote:

kas wrote:Jaime, what am I wrong about...that we need a larger squad?

You are wrong about a good many things to be sure, but in this case - no, you don't need a larger squad!

Messiah wrote:the Chygrynsky deal is rapped up, and i have only one question, sine we eventually agreed to the 25m euros Shakhtar were asking for, why didnt we just buy it a few weeks back and have him eligible for the CL, i think thats were we will really need him, when we come up against the lives of juve and chelsea.

Jaime wrote:

Messiah wrote:the Chygrynsky deal is rapped up, and i have only one question, sine we eventually agreed to the 25m euros Shakhtar were asking for, why didnt we just buy it a few weeks back and have him eligible for the CL, i think thats were we will really need him, when we come up against the lives of juve and chelsea.

Twenty five million euro for a backup defender who is not elegible for the CL??

MightyBarca wrote:

Jaime wrote:

Messiah wrote:the Chygrynsky deal is rapped up, and i have only one question, sine we eventually agreed to the 25m euros Shakhtar were asking for, why didnt we just buy it a few weeks back and have him eligible for the CL, i think thats were we will really need him, when we come up against the lives of juve and chelsea.

Twenty five million euro for a backup defender who is not elegible for the CL??

Don't think you lot got any room to speak. Pepe 30m

blutgraetsche wrote:€25m for a defender whose name you can't even pronounce, let alone spell, is quite a lot though. Don't expect him to sell a lot of shirts, the fakers in China can do as many spelling mistakes as they want, nobody will notice the difference.

MightyBarca wrote:@ Jaime

True its expensive but give the lad some time am sure pep knows what he's doing. Plus he's one for the future being only 22 years old. Should have signed him earlier though.