WC2010 Group G - Brazil, Portugal, Ivory Coast, North Korea

Hlebagone wrote:Me too. At the same time though, there are limits. A double pivot of Felipe Melo and Gilberto Silva is taking things too far. A player who could pass from deep at a high tempo could only help them, at not too great a loss from their defensive stability.

Also, if Kaka for example gets injured, there's no real replacement.

Still, if my pattern is to be believed, brazil win win:

1994: efficient - win
1998: Sexy - lose
2002: Efficient - win
2006: Sexy (tried to be) - lose
2010: Efficient - win.

Big 4 Billy Bollocks wrote:Brazil are here to win, not entertain.

Big 4 Billy Bollocks wrote:

Hlebagone wrote:Me too. At the same time though, there are limits. A double pivot of Felipe Melo and Gilberto Silva is taking things too far. A player who could pass from deep at a high tempo could only help them, at not too great a loss from their defensive stability.

Also, if Kaka for example gets injured, there's no real replacement.

Still, if my pattern is to be believed, brazil win win:

1994: efficient - win
1998: Sexy - lose
2002: Efficient - win
2006: Sexy (tried to be) - lose
2010: Efficient - win.

Brazil have played the double pivot ever since I've been watching WC's

1994 - Mauro Silva and Dunga

1998 - Dunga and Cesar Sampaio

2002 -Gilberto Silva and Kleberson (replaced Emerson)

2006 - Gilberto Silva and Emerson

2010 - Gilberto Silva and Felipe Melo.

"Joga Bonito" is forced onto Brazil all the time and then get all precious if they don't live up to it. Dunga's rightly doing things his way and seeing as he's won the only two competitions he's coached in, and his qualifying group comfortably, I'd say he knows what he's doing. Brazil are here to win, not entertain.

kas wrote:

Hlebagone wrote:Me too. At the same time though, there are limits. A double pivot of Felipe Melo and Gilberto Silva is taking things too far. A player who could pass from deep at a high tempo could only help them, at not too great a loss from their defensive stability.

Also, if Kaka for example gets injured, there's no real replacement.

Still, if my pattern is to be believed, brazil win win:

1994: efficient - win
1998: Sexy - lose
2002: Efficient - win
2006: Sexy (tried to be) - lose
2010: Efficient - win.

To be fair to Dunga, these are two positions where has has indeed tried a few players, looking for what you suggest. But I'm struggling to think of good candidates for these positions.

For the Kaka replacement, Ronaldinho doesn't work hard enough and Anderson didn't impress in the chances he got. Plus he can't score goals. For the deep passer, neither Lucas nor Hernanes have lived up to the hype. If only Senna didn't change nationality

debaser wrote:but but but the samba. I thought they came to give us samba

debaser wrote:Melo and Silva have been v.good so far, though remains to be seen against stronger opposition.

What's the Elano injury news, and who will replace him?

Big 4 Billy Bollocks wrote:

Hlebagone wrote:Me too. At the same time though, there are limits. A double pivot of Felipe Melo and Gilberto Silva is taking things too far. A player who could pass from deep at a high tempo could only help them, at not too great a loss from their defensive stability.

Also, if Kaka for example gets injured, there's no real replacement.

Still, if my pattern is to be believed, brazil win win:

1994: efficient - win
1998: Sexy - lose
2002: Efficient - win
2006: Sexy (tried to be) - lose
2010: Efficient - win.

Brazil have played the double pivot ever since I've been watching WC's

1994 - Mauro Silva and Dunga

1998 - Dunga and Cesar Sampaio

2002 -Gilberto Silva and Kleberson (replaced Emerson)

2006 - Gilberto Silva and Emerson

2010 - Gilberto Silva and Felipe Melo.

"Joga Bonito" is forced onto Brazil all the time and then get all precious if they don't live up to it. Dunga's rightly doing things his way and seeing as he's won the only two competitions he's coached in, and his qualifying group comfortably, I'd say he knows what he's doing. Brazil are here to win, not entertain.

debaser wrote:but but but the samba. I thought they came to give us samba

Axeslammer wrote:According to Dutch pundits Joga Bonito is a fairy tale of Ottoesque proportions : they claim Brazil have been one of the most defensive (big) international teams for at least 20 years now...

...I have to agree

Brazil 1982 is the ultimate team for those who love the game, the Brazilian teams after 1982 are on par with Italy and Norway.....bar a few individual geniuses

mongrel hawk wrote:
the 1982 team wouold never win any WC. that team was a failure.

Axeslammer wrote:

mongrel hawk wrote:
the 1982 team wouold never win any WC. that team was a failure.

Not winning a WC does not make a team a failure to me.

If the current Oranje keeps on playing like they do and win the WC, they'll still be one of my least liked Oranje-teams....

Style over Substance any day of the week

Brazil 1982 is the ultimate team for those who love the game

Axeslammer wrote:

mongrel hawk wrote:
the 1982 team wouold never win any WC. that team was a failure.

Not winning a WC does not make a team a failure to me.

If the current Oranje keeps on playing like they do and win the WC, they'll still be one of my least liked Oranje-teams....

Style over Substance any day of the week

mongrel hawk wrote:

debaser wrote:but but but the samba. I thought they came to give us samba

Dunga thinks this samba, futebol arte, joga bonito thing is a european trap to make sure brazil won't win.

Yeh, he's too paranoid and a bit crazy, but, indeed, Brazil are not in the WC to provide exotic entertainment for gringos. Brazil are there to win.

Juligen wrote:

mongrel hawk wrote:

debaser wrote:but but but the samba. I thought they came to give us samba

Dunga thinks this samba, futebol arte, joga bonito thing is a european trap to make sure brazil won't win.

Yeh, he's too paranoid and a bit crazy, but, indeed, Brazil are not in the WC to provide exotic entertainment for gringos. Brazil are there to win.

I dont think people are asking for taht samba football Todo, as I said, I liked our game agaisnt IC, maybe after so many awful games from England, France and Italy I lost my mind, but I think we played fun, fast and good football. Imagine if we had only one more creative player in that mildfield?

In my mind that game was better than what we did in 2006 and more entertaining that 94.

And lets be fair, the entire brazilian media agreed that the team played much better in the second game and that our performance against a hard team like Ivory Coast was good, they also said taht the team is improving and Kaka will probably only get better.

I just dont get this madness from Dunga, Parreira and even Felipao got much worse than him.

Much more than natural talent, this was the product of sheer hard work, fueled by the desire to prove people wrong. It would seem that this, more than anything else, is what makes Dunga tick. In 1994, he held the trophy aloft with a volley of abuse aimed at those who had doubted him or the team -- and 16 years on he coaches Brazil in the same spirit. He needs an enemy, and the press fulfill this role.

Juligen wrote:

Big 4 Billy Bollocks™ wrote:

Juligen wrote:But let me put this clear, I really want us to win this WC and after the Ivory Coast game my expectations got really high. Now I really think this team can win the WC.

I like the group, I think Kaka can still improve and our attack will get better. If only we could change Michel Bastos for Gilberto (nothing great, but a bit better)


I juts wish Dunga could be a bit more mature. But I guess thats ask for too much. Was Felipao that bad? I dont remember him being so bitter.

As a Spurs fan, my jaw has dropped in amazement. Gilberto is too long in the tooth now.

I think Dunga has done a superb job, and he's right not to indulge in the romantic ideologies of the Brazilian Press & the world over.

It's a serious football tournament, not an advert in an airport.

I actually like Gilberto, his pass in my opinion is much better than Bastos, but I also saw some pretty inconsistent games from Gilberto so I get why Dunga would still had doubts in that place, but after the game with IC I really wish Gilberto could be back at the team. There are some positions were Dunga tried several players, that I admit.

I am just glad he likes Maicon, it could be worse.

mongrel hawk wrote:@ju

I don't think we need one more creative player. we would have to drop a marking player, and I wouldn't like it at all.


@super africa

agreed it unites the team. they are all buyng this war against the press together, since most of the players were often bashed by the press.

they are not conceding exclusive interviews to any Brazilian journalist or TV channel, what is very uncommon here.

the other day robinho, that c**t who loves to be the centre of attention, could not resist the temptation and conceded an interview to TV Globo. he had to apologise to Dunga and all the squad because they had a pact not to do this.

Formerly known as sheva7 wrote:

mongrel hawk wrote:@ju

I don't think we need one more creative player. we would have to drop a marking player, and I wouldn't like it at all.


@super africa

agreed it unites the team. they are all buyng this war against the press together, since most of the players were often bashed by the press.

they are not conceding exclusive interviews to any Brazilian journalist or TV channel, what is very uncommon here.

the other day robinho, that c**t who loves to be the centre of attention, could not resist the temptation and conceded an interview to TV Globo. he had to apologise to Dunga and all the squad because they had a pact not to do this.

I don't think Brazil need another attacking midfielder on the pitch, but IMO Dunga should have called up Ronaldinho or Ganso. WTF Kleberson is doing in the squad? He spent the last six years warming the bench wherever he has been.

mongrel hawk wrote:
I can understand that. you're Dutch.

Big 4 Billy Bollocks™ wrote:

Hlebagone wrote:Me too. At the same time though, there are limits. A double pivot of Felipe Melo and Gilberto Silva is taking things too far. A player who could pass from deep at a high tempo could only help them, at not too great a loss from their defensive stability.

Also, if Kaka for example gets injured, there's no real replacement.

Still, if my pattern is to be believed, brazil win win:

1994: efficient - win
1998: Sexy - lose
2002: Efficient - win
2006: Sexy (tried to be) - lose
2010: Efficient - win.

Brazil have played the double pivot ever since I've been watching WC's

1994 - Mauro Silva and Dunga

1998 - Dunga and Cesar Sampaio

2002 -Gilberto Silva and Kleberson (replaced Emerson)

2006 - Gilberto Silva and Emerson

2010 - Gilberto Silva and Felipe Melo.

"Joga Bonito" is forced onto Brazil all the time and then get all precious if they don't live up to it. Dunga's rightly doing things his way and seeing as he's won the only two competitions he's coached in, and his qualifying group comfortably, I'd say he knows what he's doing. Brazil are here to win, not entertain.

blutgraetsche wrote:

mongrel hawk wrote:
I can understand that. you're Dutch.

Formerly known as sheva7 wrote:

mongrel hawk wrote:@ju

I don't think we need one more creative player. we would have to drop a marking player, and I wouldn't like it at all.


@super africa

agreed it unites the team. they are all buyng this war against the press together, since most of the players were often bashed by the press.

they are not conceding exclusive interviews to any Brazilian journalist or TV channel, what is very uncommon here.

the other day robinho, that c**t who loves to be the centre of attention, could not resist the temptation and conceded an interview to TV Globo. he had to apologise to Dunga and all the squad because they had a pact not to do this.

I don't think Brazil need another attacking midfielder on the pitch, but IMO Dunga should have called up Ronaldinho or Ganso. WTF Kleberson is doing in the squad? He spent the last six years warming the bench wherever he has been.

mongrel hawk wrote:

Formerly known as sheva7 wrote:

mongrel hawk wrote:@ju

I don't think we need one more creative player. we would have to drop a marking player, and I wouldn't like it at all.


@super africa

agreed it unites the team. they are all buyng this war against the press together, since most of the players were often bashed by the press.

they are not conceding exclusive interviews to any Brazilian journalist or TV channel, what is very uncommon here.

the other day robinho, that c**t who loves to be the centre of attention, could not resist the temptation and conceded an interview to TV Globo. he had to apologise to Dunga and all the squad because they had a pact not to do this.

I don't think Brazil need another attacking midfielder on the pitch, but IMO Dunga should have called up Ronaldinho or Ganso. WTF Kleberson is doing in the squad? He spent the last six years warming the bench wherever he has been.

ronaldinho has no place in this team IMO. I'd rather have J Baptista than Ronaldinho in this situation. Moreover, all the media would have started a campaign for him to put Ronaldinho in place of felipe mello, what would fuck everything up.

ganso too has nothing to do there. he would fit in spain, not in brazil. this brazil is no team for this kind of player, as good as he may be.

and when he played against Corinthians, Ralf marked him and he did absolutely nothing. how to trust him to break marking systems in a WC?

and neymar, well, it would be a bloody disgrace if dunga had called this kid based on matches against ituanos and guaranis, just because the stupid press, in 2 months, decided he's the next pelé.

Juligen wrote:

Formerly known as sheva7 wrote:

mongrel hawk wrote:@ju

I don't think we need one more creative player. we would have to drop a marking player, and I wouldn't like it at all.


@super africa

agreed it unites the team. they are all buyng this war against the press together, since most of the players were often bashed by the press.

they are not conceding exclusive interviews to any Brazilian journalist or TV channel, what is very uncommon here.

the other day robinho, that c**t who loves to be the centre of attention, could not resist the temptation and conceded an interview to TV Globo. he had to apologise to Dunga and all the squad because they had a pact not to do this.

I don't think Brazil need another attacking midfielder on the pitch, but IMO Dunga should have called up Ronaldinho or Ganso. WTF Kleberson is doing in the squad? He spent the last six years warming the bench wherever he has been.

yeahh, even if I said that I wanted another creative player I have to admit that the defenders are doing a fine work, I am not Elano's biggets fan but so far he is doing a great cup.

Also, I agree with Todo, Ronaldinho wouldnt be happy to be in the bench and the media obvious wouldnt be in peace with that, so it could create problems in this group. Players like Ronaldinho, Adriano did all they could to be out from this group, I dont blame Dunga for that.

Remember last WC when the seniors players didnt let the young ones have space, and Parreira was afraid to bench players like Ronaldo, even if they had no conditions to play? This kind of mess we dont see in this group. In this group we know at least the players are working their asses off.

Khadrim wrote:I have to say I really like Dunga.

He's given people chances (Ronaldinho, Pato, Elano) and it is up to them take it or not. He has preserved group harmony by kicking out malcontents. He is loyal to the players who have performed for him. For me the most noble thing he did was his willngness to look at players outside the big leagues. Offering players in places like Ukraine and Russia a chance to play for the national team. He appears to be quite a honourable man.

Dunga