WC2010 Group H - Spain, Switzerland, Honduras, Chile

Just to introduce a little pace and width into proceedings, Javi Martinez is coming on.

Chile should hold out another 5 or so minutes then go for a second. They'll get a lot of respect if they come from 2-0 down with 10 men against supposedly the best team in europe

L r dd wrote:Chile should hold out another 5 or so minutes then go for a second. They'll get a lot of respect if they come from 2-0 down with 10 men against supposedly the best team in europe

Even if I think Spain are very overrated I wouldn't really dispute that they are the best in Europe at the moment. I mean there is really no good sides in Europe. Germany's defensive players doesn't quite impress but otherwise they look pretty good but except for them the European teams don't special at all.

Super Africa wrote:

L r dd wrote:Chile should hold out another 5 or so minutes then go for a second. They'll get a lot of respect if they come from 2-0 down with 10 men against supposedly the best team in europe

Even if I think Spain are very overrated I wouldn't really dispute that they are the best in Europe at the moment. I mean there is really no good sides in Europe. Germany's defensive players doesn't quite impress but otherwise they look pretty good but except for them the European teams don't special at all.

I wasn't asking you to dispute anything. Germany are not really relevant as we will see on sunday.

L r dd wrote:

Super Africa wrote:

L r dd wrote:Chile should hold out another 5 or so minutes then go for a second. They'll get a lot of respect if they come from 2-0 down with 10 men against supposedly the best team in europe

Even if I think Spain are very overrated I wouldn't really dispute that they are the best in Europe at the moment. I mean there is really no good sides in Europe. Germany's defensive players doesn't quite impress but otherwise they look pretty good but except for them the European teams don't special at all.

I wasn't asking you to dispute anything. Germany are not really relevant as we will see on sunday.

I just noticed you saying "supposedly" and wondering what other team you were thinking of? Holland??

Super Africa wrote:

L r dd wrote:Chile should hold out another 5 or so minutes then go for a second. They'll get a lot of respect if they come from 2-0 down with 10 men against supposedly the best team in europe

Even if I think Spain are very overrated I wouldn't really dispute that they are the best in Europe at the moment. I mean there is really no good sides in Europe. Germany's defensive players doesn't quite impress but otherwise they look pretty good but except for them the European teams don't special at all.

I think DB is just picking the wrong teams and sending them out with the wrong mentality. Spain have basically sleep walked their way through this tournament without ever looking like they have broken sweat.

They can play great football, but this is all far to slow and laboured and a PGD team is probably going to knock them out if he keeps picking the same lineup. Torres appears to have given up hoping that a midfielder is ever going to pass into space for him rather than into his feet.

Wow, 80 mins gone and Switzerland are really living up to the Euroshite tag - like Serbia, they can shock their fellow European team by playing anti-football, but fail miserably when forced to take the initiative and win a game against a (relatively) unknown but weak opponent.

kas wrote:Wow, 80 mins gone and Switzerland are really living up to the Euroshite tag - like Serbia, they can shock their fellow European team by playing anti-football, but fail miserably when forced to take the initiative and win a game against a (relatively) unknown but weak opponent.

Yeah but Honduras are one of Puro's picks so the Swiss are doing well to get out of there with a draw.

KUYT #6 wrote:

Super Africa wrote:

L r dd wrote:Chile should hold out another 5 or so minutes then go for a second. They'll get a lot of respect if they come from 2-0 down with 10 men against supposedly the best team in europe

Even if I think Spain are very overrated I wouldn't really dispute that they are the best in Europe at the moment. I mean there is really no good sides in Europe. Germany's defensive players doesn't quite impress but otherwise they look pretty good but except for them the European teams don't special at all.

I think DB is just picking the wrong teams and sending them out with the wrong mentality. Spain have basically sleep walked their way through this tournament without ever looking like they have broken sweat.

They can play great football, but this is all far to slow and laboured and a PGD team is probably going to knock them out if he keeps picking the same lineup. Torres appears to have given up hoping that a midfielder is ever going to pass into space for him rather than into his feet.

He's not implementing any proper tactical system, it's a bit like Wenger this past season where he tries to mix and match different elements but the overall result is a big fail.

For example, the glut of central midfielders hints at a short passing style, but the lines are too far apart, there's a lack of any pressure on the ball when the other team has it, and there's no one touch passing (which causes the slow pace of play).

Then like you mentioned, there's the Torres problem...he just doesn't seem to fit into the team. Sometimes his presence and movement in stretching the defense will result in defining moments (like the 1st goal in this game and the Euro 2008 final) but overall, he just ruins too many attacking moves.

I'm glad that the group stages are over soon.

Swiss going out I rather like the Swiss

KUYT #6 wrote:

Super Africa wrote:

L r dd wrote:Chile should hold out another 5 or so minutes then go for a second. They'll get a lot of respect if they come from 2-0 down with 10 men against supposedly the best team in europe

Even if I think Spain are very overrated I wouldn't really dispute that they are the best in Europe at the moment. I mean there is really no good sides in Europe. Germany's defensive players doesn't quite impress but otherwise they look pretty good but except for them the European teams don't special at all.

I think DB is just picking the wrong teams and sending them out with the wrong mentality. Spain have basically sleep walked their way through this tournament without ever looking like they have broken sweat.

They can play great football, but this is all far to slow and laboured and a PGD team is probably going to knock them out if he keeps picking the same lineup. Torres appears to have given up hoping that a midfielder is ever going to pass into space for him rather than into his feet.

I suspect this is almost ideal for DB though. His big fear, and rightfully so, was all the fanfare and hype that has followed Spain up to the WC. This has kind of put the brakes on that.

His formation with two 2Dms will serve him when Spain meet some PGD. He doesn't want to run into the same problems Spain had in last WC and Barcelona have had in Cl during the years. So in this respect I think he has it right allthough I don't particularly rate Busquets even if he isn't as bad as people make him out to be. In the end though I still think they won't have it takes against a good compact side.

One big problem is Torres though and im sure if he had a choice he would have hoped he was still injuried because Spain have always looked better with one striker. If DB can't manage to get past pressure of trying to fit him in it will surely cost Spain the control they need.

blutgraetsche wrote:I'm glad that the group stages are over soon.

If it's more entertaining games that you're expecting, you shouldn't hold your breath IMO. If anything, the trend of teams being more organised and more defensive-minded will only increase in the knockout games.

Portugal will beat Spain IMO

KUYT #6 wrote:
I think DB is just picking the wrong teams and sending them out with the wrong mentality. Spain have basically sleep walked their way through this tournament without ever looking like they have broken sweat.

This is typical Spain at the WC.

They were certainly sweating against after Switzerland scored, and in the opening half an hour of this Chile game. I don't think they've sleepwalked this group at all. They were under pressure from the beginning.

Agree with Super Madrid that Spain are the strongest, but it's only because powerhouses like Italy and France are in a terrible state. England havn't impressed in years. This tournament is a bit too soon for the Germans.

Spain "shutting down" like Brazil earlier today

kas wrote:

blutgraetsche wrote:I'm glad that the group stages are over soon.

If it's more entertaining games that you're expecting, you shouldn't hold your breath IMO. If anything, the trend of teams being more organised and more defensive-minded will only increase in the knockout games.

I'm fully aware of that. But at least there won't be any of these 'let's stop playing football and be happy with the result' matches we saw today.

L r dd wrote:Portugal will beat Spain IMO

I think Queiroz will keep it tight at the back for sure, and Spain will struggle to break them down. Just a shame that Nuno Gomes isn't there to torture Spain's defence again.

Why the f@ck are Chile not pressing, are they getting live text updates from Switzerland-Honduras?

kas wrote:

For example, the glut of central midfielders hints at a short passing style, but the spread-out positioning of the lines, the lack of any pressure on the ball, means that doesn't really work. Then like you mentioned, there's the Torres problem...he just doesn't seem to fit into the team. Sometimes his presence and movement in stretching the defense will result in defining moments (like the 1st goal in this game and the Euro 2008 final) but overall, he just ruins too many attacking moves.

True. The way Spain play is just totally against all of torres' strengths. His excellent movement is irrelevant because Spain don't use a quick ball to the forwards often enough. His weakness in possession is exposed because the midfielders play their way to the box before it gets to the forwards and Torres then has to try and link up with his back to goal which he is shit at. Everything is too slow for him in the buildup and then to quick for him in and around the box. It's basically the complete opposite of how Liverpool play. Still think you should keep playing him though. Anything to get away from this bullshit centre midfield obsessed passing game

Spain - Chile 2-1 FT

Both teams are through, congrats!

Shame for Chile that they have to face Brazil. They could have easily topped this group. They will have many regrets.

blutgraetsche wrote:

kas wrote:

blutgraetsche wrote:I'm glad that the group stages are over soon.

If it's more entertaining games that you're expecting, you shouldn't hold your breath IMO. If anything, the trend of teams being more organised and more defensive-minded will only increase in the knockout games.

I'm fully aware of that. But at least there won't be any of these 'let's stop playing football and be happy with the result' matches we saw today.

Yeah but you'll have teams giving up with like 15-20 mins to go in normal time, let alone extra time, similar to the CL final of 2003. Can you imagine Paraguay or Japan taking unnecessary risks when a historical QF place is at hand for either of them?

Spain and Brazil's stock both lost a lot of points today. That aura that can beat teams before they go on the pitch has evaporated entirely. Cant wait to thrash either one of them

kas wrote:Why the f@ck are Chile not pressing, are they getting live text updates from Switzerland-Honduras?

probably...is shit, although I don't think it can be avoided really

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:Shame for Chile that they have to face Brazil. They could have easily topped this group. They will have many regrets.

How so ?

Pretty uninspiring from Spain again. I have to think if Del Bosque would just pick Valdes it would all be such a different story.

KUYT #6 wrote:

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:Shame for Chile that they have to face Brazil. They could have easily topped this group. They will have many regrets.

How so ?

They lost their heads today, gifting Spain both goals, and getting too many yellows. Even ignoring that, they created enough chances to win their previous games by 2 or 3 goals.

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

KUYT #6 wrote:
I think DB is just picking the wrong teams and sending them out with the wrong mentality. Spain have basically sleep walked their way through this tournament without ever looking like they have broken sweat.

This is typical Spain at the WC.

They were certainly sweating against after Switzerland scored, and in the opening half an hour of this Chile game. I don't think they've sleepwalked this group at all. They were under pressure from the beginning.

Agree with Super Madrid that Spain are the strongest, but it's only because powerhouses like Italy and France are in a terrible state. England havn't impressed in years. This tournament is a bit too soon for the Germans.

blutgraetsche wrote:

kas wrote:

blutgraetsche wrote:I'm glad that the group stages are over soon.

If it's more entertaining games that you're expecting, you shouldn't hold your breath IMO. If anything, the trend of teams being more organised and more defensive-minded will only increase in the knockout games.

I'm fully aware of that. But at least there won't be any of these 'let's stop playing football and be happy with the result' matches we saw today.

The games will be better and there will be more tension. Im certainly looking forward to that.

Super Africa wrote:

Barrilete wrote:

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Barrilete wrote:Well, nice game so far. IMO the ref is a bit too rigorous calling every play with some friction a foul but can't really say he is wrong, just too hasty to call fouls and give cards away.

Too bad for Chile 'cause their style during the first 20 minutes is something that this Spain side isn't accustomed and even made them hoof the ball believe it or not.

Two stupid defensive mistakes by Chile and it's 2-0. That's the way it is against top sides, you can't afford to make mistakes.

Out of interest, do you wish Bielsa had another chance with Argentina at the WC?

not really, but i do like the guy very much.

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Great goal by Chile...man the swiss really don't deserve to go through

Why not then?

I was amongst the few who were backing him after the 2002 fiasco and would have loved for him to be at Germany 2006, but he chose to quit, I respect that but coaching the national side is not a job you can leave for a while and comeback whenever you want to.

He is a great coach(actually underrated IMO), and he is a very smart man, loved his press conferences while he was coaching Argentina, and players' stories about him are just hilarious