Underrated players.

Jaime wrote:

messiah wrote:Oleguer Presas
Francisco Pavon

come to mind, have won so much, yet the get no respect

S4P wrote:

messiah wrote:No i blame it on pep for playing players like Yaya and keita in defensive midfield position, though in keita's case, it was a matter of him, having a huge man crush on him and wanted figure out a way to get him playing time.

ps Mikel is as slow as fuck, all his attributes to play in the CM/AM role was down to his footballing abilities and nothing else, i didn't see him pushing anyone off the ball then blazing past them.

it was all technique and football IQ

What abilities?

Being able to play exquisite through balls

Good shot technique

It's hard to think of reasons why Mikel should play any higher up the pitch than he does.

As for using the U20 World Cup as an example of why a player should be able to produce at senior level You might recall that Drenthe once looked very good in the U21 Euro Championships, prompting Real Madrid to jump on the bandwagon and sign him. Players who perform well in certain positions at U20/U21 level don't always perform as well in those roles at senior level. Mikel is a classic example.

Kimbo wrote:

Deluded F*ck wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

We've been through this, you have a much deeper squad and your weak players are better than our weak players. But if you would take Lennon over Ben Arfa, Defoe over Cisse etc then good for you.

This argument is negated because Redknapp NEVER rotated our squad.

Who are these players that you are referring to?

Pienaar, Pav, Corluka, Krancjar, Bassong, Dos Santos all got buried by Redknapp.

When you had injuries you had capable players to step in. So do you think you have a better striker than Cisse, and that Lennon is better than Ben Arfa? I'm a bit confused about your point here Kris. I actually agree that Cabaye shouldn't be rated higher than Modric at the moment.

Pierre Littbarski wrote:"Marvellous" Marvin Sordell too.

The most 2 footed English striker of all time.

"Weak" foot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7lQjfBEMYw

The 1-2 at 0:50 !!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2jPNNGrSoM&feature=fvwrel


Wilfried Zaha of Palace and Ivory Coast will be awesome too.

Deluded F*ck wrote:
My point is that peddling that the reason we finished ahead of you because of depth is nonsense. Pardew got far more out of his Newcastle squad than Redknapp did out of the Tottenham squad, despite us *on paper* having far superior depth.

8 Players at Spurs started 26 or more league games - that shows that we had a manager who doesn't rotate and lets his 1st XI burn out. Newcastle had only 5 players who started more than 26 games.

16 players at Newcastle started at least 13 games - at Spurs this figure goes down to 12. We suffered from shit squad management - you didn't. Hence our 1st XI > your first XI.

Kimbo wrote:you can't seem to accept Cisse and Ben Arfa are better than Defoe and Lennon ffs.

Deluded F*ck wrote:

Kimbo wrote:you can't seem to accept Cisse and Ben Arfa are better than Defoe and Lennon ffs.

No problem with this - of course they are better.

Adebayor is better than Ba though, and Sandro would easily be as good as Tiote if Redknapp got over his man crush on Scotty "Dave Mackay" Parker.

Disco Benny wrote:Right, so Ben Arfa (7 goals 5 assists) is 3 >'s better than Lennon (4 goals 6 assists), whilst Bale (12 goals 14 assists) is only 2 >'s better than Jonas (2 goals 3 assists)..Marvellously balance and unbiased stuff from Kimmy

Deluded F*ck wrote:

Kimbo wrote:you can't seem to accept Cisse and Ben Arfa are better than Defoe and Lennon ffs.

No problem with this - of course they are better.

Adebayor is better than Ba though, and Sandro would easily be as good as Tiote if Redknapp got over his man crush on Scotty "Dave Mackay" Parker.

Kimbo wrote:

Disco Benny wrote:Right, so Ben Arfa (7 goals 5 assists) is 3 >'s better than Lennon (4 goals 6 assists), whilst Bale (12 goals 14 assists) is only 2 >'s better than Jonas (2 goals 3 assists)..Marvellously balance and unbiased stuff from Kimmy

It is obvious to anyone Ben Arfa is in another stratosphere to Lennon in terms of talent. With Bale and Jonas it is difficult, Bale often fails to live up to the hype, while Jonas consistently puts in a "shift"(as they say), he isn't creative, but he is tactically disciplined and a real team player. You can add a > if you really want, I don't mind. It speaks volumes that the only fault you can pick is with a > . On Ben Arfa and Lennon, we can compare them if you really really want, I don't recommend it though.

van Gaal for Spurs wrote:

Deluded F*ck wrote:

Kimbo wrote:you can't seem to accept Cisse and Ben Arfa are better than Defoe and Lennon ffs.

No problem with this - of course they are better.

Adebayor is better than Ba though, and Sandro would easily be as good as Tiote if Redknapp got over his man crush on Scotty "Dave Mackay" Parker.

For me:

Sandro >> Tiote >>>>>> Parker

Disco Benny wrote:
So Bale fails to live up to the hype by scoring 12 and setting up 14 does he, whilst Ben Arfa, who is apparently on another level in terms of talent, has end productivity stats similar to Lennon's and yet is on another stratosphere?

Let's try this then - Bale V Ben Arfa, Lennon V Jonas.

Lennon is far better at "putting in a shift" than Jonas, far better player. 1-0 Spurs

Barfa has better dribbling ability, but nothing else on Bale. Just look at the end productivity,

2-0 Spurs. Thank you and Good night!

Kimbo wrote:

Disco Benny wrote:
So Bale fails to live up to the hype by scoring 12 and setting up 14 does he, whilst Ben Arfa, who is apparently on another level in terms of talent, has end productivity stats similar to Lennon's and yet is on another stratosphere?

Let's try this then - Bale V Ben Arfa, Lennon V Jonas.

Lennon is far better at "putting in a shift" than Jonas, far better player. 1-0 Spurs

Barfa has better dribbling ability, but nothing else on Bale. Just look at the end productivity,

2-0 Spurs. Thank you and Good night!

I mean what in the fuck? Jonas is like our Kuyt.

Ben Arfa only started 16 games last season, and look at his impact, next season will be interesting now he has found his feet and is fit. Infact, Ben Arfa has a better end product rate than Bale, if he was fit for the whole season you wouldn't be swinging these stats about. Personally, I would pick the technical one over the athlete, but Bale can be very effective in the premier league, he is lethal when pushing the ball past his opponent and sprinting after it, and he has a very good left foot.

messiah wrote:

Jaime wrote:

messiah wrote:Oleguer Presas
Francisco Pavon

come to mind, have won so much, yet the get no respect

Knew you would get it

Kimbo wrote:I've NEVER said Lennon isn't decent, he is decent, don't try to make it sound like I am the unreasonable one. The "agenda" was that he was overhyped and nothing special, but the hype died down a long time ago as people realised he is nothing special and I thought this matter was settled. There is a reason he has been phased out of the England squad, no one is shouting "we miss Andy Lennon".

Disco Benny wrote:

Kimbo wrote:I've NEVER said Lennon isn't decent, he is decent, don't try to make it sound like I am the unreasonable one. The "agenda" was that he was overhyped and nothing special, but the hype died down a long time ago as people realised he is nothing special and I thought this matter was settled. There is a reason he has been phased out of the England squad, no one is shouting "we miss Andy Lennon".

Err, there is actually. Those of us who aren't particularly happy seeing James Fucking Milner trundling up and down the right wing

Deluded F*ck wrote:

Disco Benny wrote:

Kimbo wrote:I've NEVER said Lennon isn't decent, he is decent, don't try to make it sound like I am the unreasonable one. The "agenda" was that he was overhyped and nothing special, but the hype died down a long time ago as people realised he is nothing special and I thought this matter was settled. There is a reason he has been phased out of the England squad, no one is shouting "we miss Andy Lennon".

Err, there is actually. Those of us who aren't particularly happy seeing James Fucking Milner trundling up and down the right wing

Remember when kimbo said Milner was better until he left Newcastle

Kimbo wrote:

Deluded F*ck wrote:

Disco Benny wrote:

Kimbo wrote:I've NEVER said Lennon isn't decent, he is decent, don't try to make it sound like I am the unreasonable one. The "agenda" was that he was overhyped and nothing special, but the hype died down a long time ago as people realised he is nothing special and I thought this matter was settled. There is a reason he has been phased out of the England squad, no one is shouting "we miss Andy Lennon".

Err, there is actually. Those of us who aren't particularly happy seeing James Fucking Milner trundling up and down the right wing

Remember when kimbo said Milner was better until he left Newcastle

Oh yeah, I was forever hyping Milner, that's why I would have sold him for half of the £12m we actually sold him for. I believe the Milner argument was because he had had a more productive season than Lennon, something I'm sure would have convinced 0trick.

I haven't heard anyone talking about Lennon for England myself, not in the media and not on here. I'm sure you two would've expected him to have more that 19 caps and 0 goals at this point.

messiah wrote:

Fade out wrote:Eto'o was played in wings to accommodate Milito. He was made to work hard because that's Maureen's system. Even for Porto, I'm pretty sure white players worked just as hard as Benny Mccarthy. Ditto Drogba for Chelsea. Drogba played wide too for days when Jose tried his hand at various white strikers he bought, but that's because he could do that job not because he is black. For Real, even Benzema is made to work hard. Even Polaroid works a lot defensively from wide areas. It's not just to do with color/race, I feel. It depends on attributes.

Yes, African players have vision and skill too. But a real high quality AM player who were undersold need to be specified. Just don't make it sound like a cruel world.

Mikel didn't progress as AM. Don't just say it was due to Chelsea, DPL, or African bias.

Joe Cole didn't play centrally either for England and Chelsea, and he was the best playmaker around. Due to his size frame. Vikash Dhorasoo didn't shine either despite being a tremendous footballer, there was a physical judgment being cast on his capabilities as a CM. Not a racial judgment.

My two cents. Keep the change.

Its not a black and white thing, I said african, I am sure if a black CM/AM came out of south american, he would be played in that position.

messiah wrote:I simply example is eto'o at inter, where he was played on wings, because he clearly has the lung power to play this position, at a point where he was the best striker in the game.

abundance wrote:

messiah wrote:I simply example is eto'o at inter, where he was played on wings, because he clearly has the lung power to play this position, at a point where he was the best striker in the game.

Messiah, he asked this man to do the very same thing on the opposite flank.

Fade out wrote:A midfield containing M'Vila, Cabaye, Nasri need not be a counter attacking setup like Croatia. I'd bet that France have as much possession as Spain when we both face each other.